NYPD Detective, "Ex-debunker" changes sides

[TC329]

Perhaps Mark can come out of retirement and educate this NYPD Detective next?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhOKkVE4v14

Highly decorated former New York City detective Bo Dietl admits that his first instinct on 9/11 was that the twin towers were downed with explosives, as he conceded that he shared many questions about the official story with 9/11 truth activists he had formerly debunked on national television.

See? It's ok to admit you made a mistake.

What started out as a adversarial confrontation with members of We Are Change turned into a cordial discussion as Dietl contradicted some of his previous public statements on 9/11 and appeared to agree with the group on several issues, presumably prompted by the fact that his daughter was doing a research paper on 9/11 which lent credence to the suspect nature of the official story behind the attacks.

"I had a perfect view....next thing is I hear screaming, I looked up and when these are coming down you know what the first thing I said is? They had *********** bombs in those buildings - I'm telling you what was in my mind, I said there had to be bombs in the buildings," said Dietl.

"You're talking about two 110 story buildings that *********** evaporated," said Dietl, adding, "Where are the people....I ask the same questions it's such a devastating thing."

"Where the **** did all these bodies go - it was pulverized - no bones, no DNA was found, I didn't see no body parts" added Dietl, who was on the scene to help rescue workers and firefighters shortly after the towers' collapse.



Dietl confirmed that the collapse of WTC 7 was known ahead of time and that he was told to stay away from the building.

Seems everyone but the American public knew that was coming down before it did. Weird.

Dietl also described it as a "*********** crime" that members of the Bin Laden family were flown out of the country under FBI supervision (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/30/archive/main313048.shtml) in the days following 9/11 when all other air traffic was grounded.

I love this because this is the only forum on the net where people defend the "Bin Laden" flights which recent FBI documents say were booked by OBL himself.

The former detective also mentioned how his former friend FBI agent John O'Neill, who died in the towers, was prevented by the FBI from prosecuting Bin Laden and other Al-Qaeda members.

No way? Stopped from investigating "Al Qaeda"???? You must be the 15th or so FBI agent to accuse this government of such. Why do you all hate your country so much? ( Do I sound like one of you yet?)

However, Dietl's claim that "they never dreamt in a million years the tragedy that happened would happen" in the context of his assertion that the faulty construction of the towers contributed to their sudden collapse is demonstrably false.

Numerous different World Trade Center designers and construction specialists are on record as having ruled out the possibility that multiple commercial jetliner impacts could bring the towers down.

A February 3, 1964 white paper which was written during the design phase of the towers stated, "The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707 DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact."
In 2001, Leslie Robertson, one of the two original structural engineers for the World Trade Center, stated, "The twin towers were in fact the first structures outside the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airplane."

Also in early 2001, Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, said on camera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDGInaB0eQM), "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting."
Since Dietl still serves as Chairman of the New York State Security Guard Advisory Council, his comments are of great significance in the quest for a new investigation.

[CHF]

"You're talking about two 110 story buildings that *********** evaporated," said Dietl, adding, "Where are the people....I ask the same questions it's such a devastating thing."

The WTC *********** evaporated?

Sounds like a brilliant guy.

[johnny karate]

Awesome. Another person who has absolutely no expertise in any required area of knowledge turns out to be a CTer. Just put him over there with Willie Nelson and Marion Cotillard.

[Blender Head]

Oy, another embarrassing thread.

Reminds me of the Torin Wolf (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=88484&page=1) thread OP.

[Alt+F4]

Seems everyone but the American public knew that was coming down before it did. Weird.

I was in NYC on 9/11, age 37. As part of the American public I knew that WTC 7 was coming down before it did. So did everyone else who had a television.

[LastChild]

Awesome. Another person who has absolutely no expertise in any required area of knowledge turns out to be a CTer. Just put him over there with Willie Nelson and Marion Cotillard.

Putting down an NYPD 9/11 hero? You debunkers will stop at nothing it's shameless. Maybe you have some quotes from some of your experts? Remember though... Meigs, and Penn & Teller don't count as experts.

[johnny karate]

My favorite part about how the "Truth" is supposedly taking the world by storm is that CTers are able to name each new convert individually.

[Alt+F4]

Putting down an NYPD 9/11 hero? You debunkers will stop at nothing it's shameless. Maybe you have some quotes from some of your experts? Remember though... Meigs, and Penn & Teller don't count as experts.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as is Dective Dieitl. Perhaps this video is what you "truthers" need to break the case wide open. Good luck with that.

[peteweaver]

State in detail how much experience this man has in the field of metallurgy.

Now, to prove your own credentials, explain the purpose of quenching in the production of steel, and what happens if steel is heated back up again and allowed to cool slowly without being quenched.

Explain the different stresses that load can impart to a steel member.

Explain how the weakest components of a steel building: the bolts which hold it together, cope in overloaded conditions.

Explain how they can resist a dynamic load.

[johnny karate]

Putting down an NYPD 9/11 hero? You debunkers will stop at nothing it's shameless. Maybe you have some quotes from some of your experts? Remember though... Meigs, and Penn & Teller don't count as experts.

Cross-thread harassment while at the same time running away from a thread? LastChild, you're a shoe-in for the gold at the Conspiracy Theorists Olympics!

[1337m4n]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but where does this guy explicitly state that he believes the towers were brought down with husabooms/thermite magic bombs/space beams?

[16.5]

"Dietl also described it as a "*********** crime" that members of the Bin Laden family were flown out of the country under FBI supervision in the days following 9/11 when all other air traffic was grounded.

I love this because this is the only forum on the net where people defend the "Bin Laden" flights which recent FBI documents say were booked by OBL himself."

It is super that you love it, Champ. Considering that it is FALSE, and has been debunked so many times that only the worst bottom feeders in the Truth Movement are dumb enough to bring it up.

OH! Present company excluded.

[LastChild]

"Dietl also described it as a "*********** crime" that members of the Bin Laden family were flown out of the country under FBI supervision in the days following 9/11 when all other air traffic was grounded.

I love this because this is the only forum on the net where people defend the "Bin Laden" flights which recent FBI documents say were booked by OBL himself."

It is super that you love it, Champ. Considering that it is FALSE, and has been debunked so many times that only the worst bottom feeders in the Truth Movement are dumb enough to bring it up.

OH! Present company excluded.

Really where?

[dudalb]

Bo Dieitl has,frankly,been a publicity whore for years,and I guess he thinks that changing his mind will bring him more publicity.

[funk de fino]

Really where?

What does it matter where, it is a lie?

[16.5]

Really where?

Really?

Wow, oh I don't know, maybe on JREF?

Look around, you might learn something.

Or ask Eric.

[RedIbis]

Awesome. Another person who has absolutely no expertise in any required area of knowledge turns out to be a CTer. Just put him over there with Willie Nelson and Marion Cotillard.

You obviously didn't watch the video. Not only is he a well known detective integral to NYC, and was at GZ that day, he was a steelworker who worked on the towers.

Way to jump the gun there.

[TheRedWorm]

Does he plan to do anything about it?

[Par]

Don’t indulge the attention-seeker.

[DavidJames]

Does he plan to do anything about it?

Maybe he'll follow the lead of those brave patriots, LastChild and RedIbis, and their tireless pursuit of justice...

and immediately sit down and start posting on Internet forums.

[Alt+F4]

Not only is he a well known detective integral to NYC, and was at GZ that day, he was a steelworker who worked on the towers.

I'm sure he will make an excellent addition to the NYC truth movement. I'll call him member 20. His testimony will surely bring about a new investigation, right?

[~enigma~]

Putting down an NYPD 9/11 hero? You debunkers will stop at nothing it's shameless. Maybe you have some quotes from some of your experts? Remember though... Meigs, and Penn & Teller don't count as experts.
No, what he said was Bo Dietl didn't have any expertise. This is a put down...Bo Dietl is an idiot much like the entire nazi-filled truth movement.

[dudalb]

I just read that a few years back, Dietl had a contract for his Private Detectative firm to do some work for the Saudi Royal Family. Maybe a failure to get the contract renewed was motivation behind the attack on the Royal family?
And has not been getting any real exposure since Imus went off the air,where Dietl was a regular.
Smells to be more and more of publicity seeking, with a little revenge thrown in.

[RedIbis]

Maybe he'll follow the lead of those brave patriots, LastChild and RedIbis, and their tireless pursuit of justice...

and immediately sit down and start posting on Internet forums.

There's something sleazy about your comment. I abide a lot of contention on this forum and the best among us debate fiercely but don't lower ourselves to such base personal insult.

[Alt+F4]

I just read that a few years back, Dietl had a contract for his Private Detectative firm to do some work for the Saudi Royal Family. Maybe a failure to get the contract renewed was motivation behind the attack on the Royal family?

I think I remember reading this too, but not sure where. Do you have a link?

[~enigma~]

You obviously didn't watch the video. Not only is he a well known detective integral to NYC, and was at GZ that day, he was a steelworker who worked on the towers.

Way to jump the gun there.
After watching the edited videos Dylan produced in the past AND the MAJOR editing Sofia did, do you really think any video that comes from the nazi-filled truth movement has any credibility? Why???

[Alt+F4]

There's something sleazy about your comment. I abide a lot of contention on this forum and the best among us debate fiercely but don't lower ourselves to such base personal insult.

Just asking, how is DavidJames' point "sleazy"? If I see an injustice I do something, not just complain about it on an anonmoyous Internet forum.

[Horatius]

P

See? It's ok to admit you made a mistake.




So why don't you then? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=109066)

[dudalb]

I think I remember reading this too, but not sure where. Do you have a link?

The Wikipedia article on Dietl mentioned this. I know Wikipedia is not exactly the most reliable source,but in this case it is one of a list of people who have been Dietl's clients,so I don't see any particular motive to fake this information.
Anyway, Dietl on Imus always struck me as being the kind of guy who would say anything to get a audience or some attention ,and I just see this as more of the same.
I would not be surprised if he jumps back into the Anti Truther pack if his change has negative repurcussions, which I think it will. Dietl has jumped onto a sinking ship,and will not be surprised if he jumps off again.

[DavidJames]

There's something sleazy about your comment. I abide a lot of contention on this forum and the best among us debate fiercely but don't lower ourselves to such base personal insult.No, my comment is spot on. The "sleazy" your sensing is internal to your own brain. You believe that the U.S. govt is complicit in murdering 3000 people on 9/11 and all you (and the other CTists here) do is post on Internet forums. Actually, that's way beyond sleazy, it's pathetic and dare I say criminal to sit around doing NOTHING, knowing what you think you know.

Sleazy would be a step up for you guys.

[realitybites]

I guess this means the hundreds of other NYPD members who were there that day are all paid government shills. FDNY too.

It amazes me that, to the truth movement, pointing out a single person's misguidedness is an egregious moral offense.

But condemning an entire department, like say the FDNY, of murder is perfectly acceptable to them.

Can't say I blame them though. If I only had a handful of even pseudo-experts backing me up, I'd be defending each and every one of them tooth and nail as well.*

*Only on the internet though.

[johnny karate]

You obviously didn't watch the video. Not only is he a well known detective integral to NYC, and was at GZ that day, he was a steelworker who worked on the towers.

Way to jump the gun there.

Ah, a defense of expertise from someone who has hand-waved away the expertise of every single firefighter who was on the scene at WTC7.

Your glaring hypocrisy aside, pray tell what possible expertise can a former steel-worker lend in determining anything about the events of 9/11?

[realitybites]

Curse you Opera for your slow response time and making me post twice!!!

*** And of course, as fate would have it... The double post is my 1,000th. I hate Mondays.

[Walter Ego]

My favorite part about how the "Truth" is supposedly taking the world by storm is that CTers are able to name each new convert individually.


Rosie, Willie, that French actress... the avalanche is unstoppable!

[RedIbis]

No, my comment is spot on. The "sleazy" your sensing is internal to your own brain. You believe that the U.S. govt is complicit in murdering 3000 people on 9/11 and all you (and the other CTists here) do is post on Internet forums. Actually, that's way beyond sleazy, it's pathetic and dare I say criminal to sit around doing NOTHING, knowing what you think you know.

Sleazy would be a step up for you guys.

By your logic you're not really someone who loves his/her country. That's what I find sleazy, your obvious accusation.

Trust me, I don't have that much time to argue with someone like you. I won't likely respond to your comments any longer. There are far better, more civil, and ultimately more persuasive posters than you. You bring the discourse down.

[~enigma~]

Why is it the woo think being a policeman or first responder absolves them of having stupid ideas?

[A W Smith]

Interesting. not even a month ago he feared our northern borders were unprotected from the "abba dabba doos who want to blow up this country"

watch this interesting video from a month ago

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802120011


And sorry redibis. "Bo" Dietl is quite obviously too young to have been a steelworker on the twin towers during their construction. I call BS.

[Alt+F4]

By your logic you're not really someone who loves his/her country. That's what I find sleazy, your obvious accusation.

Trust me, I don't have that much time to argue with someone like you. I won't likely respond to your comments any longer. There are far better, more civil, and ultimately more persuasive posters than you. You bring the discourse down.

Is that what's it's really all about Ibis, just the discourse? Is 9/11, after 6 plus years, just an academic excerise in debate to you?

[dudalb]

Interesting. not even a month ago he feared our northern borders were unprotected from the "abba dabba doos who want to blow up this country"

watch this interesting video from a month ago

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802120011


And sorry redibis. "Bo" Dietl is quite obviously too young to have been a steelworker on the twin towers during their construction. I call BS.

The Smell of a publicity whore at work gets even stronger.

[RedIbis]

Interesting. not even a month ago he feared our northern borders were unprotected from the "abba dabba doos who want to blow up this country"

watch this interesting video from a month ago

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802120011


And sorry redibis. "Bo" Dietl is quite obviously too young to have been a steelworker on the twin towers during their construction. I call BS.

If you watch the video, it's what the text says on the Fox clip. I don't know if he was or not.

[twinstead]

I suppose I'll jump on board with a resounding "so what"? This trickle of unqualified people worn like some kind of badge of honor confuses me.

GET SOME PEOPLE ON YOUR SIDE WHO CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE, TRUTHERS. Get the FDNY union to back another investigation. Get the police union to back another investigation. Publish a paper in a respected, legitimately peer-reviewed scientific journal--from anywhere in the world.

This is the kind of stuff that could only get the attention of us 'sheep'. This high-fiving and arrogant 'BOOOYA' crap you folks do every time some individual questions the official story is just a plain embarrassment to you.

It's been almost 7 years. At this rate we'll still be having this discussion via our internet connections at the retirement home, with NO CHANGE.

[deep]

No, my comment is spot on. The "sleazy" your sensing is internal to your own brain. You believe that the U.S. govt is complicit in murdering 3000 people on 9/11 and all you (and the other CTists here) do is post on Internet forums. Actually, that's way beyond sleazy, it's pathetic and dare I say criminal to sit around doing NOTHING, knowing what you think you know.

Sleazy would be a step up for you guys.


How do you know for sure that all he or she does is post in Internet forums? Considering you have no way of knowing who it is you're even replying to (i.e., the real person), I'm curious about how you were able to come to that conclusion.

[DavidJames]

How do you know for sure that all he or she does is post in Internet forums? Considering you have no way of knowing who it is you're even replying to (i.e., the real person), I'm curious about how you were able to come to that conclusion.For one I would expect the CTists would be shouting from the rooftops about what they were doing and how the their efforts were ignored. Secondly, I've made that comment to most every CTists who showed up here and not one, let me repeat, not one of them have proved me wrong. None have even tried.

One, Lite Head, claimed he he did but when pushed, offered no proof, no evidence he did. Further, he wouldn't even say to whom he presented his evidence. Clearly, he's a pathetic liar.

[TC329]

"Dietl also described it as a "*********** crime" that members of the Bin Laden family were flown out of the country under FBI supervision in the days following 9/11 when all other air traffic was grounded.

I love this because this is the only forum on the net where people defend the "Bin Laden" flights which recent FBI documents say were booked by OBL himself."

It is super that you love it, Champ. Considering that it is FALSE, and has been debunked so many times that only the worst bottom feeders in the Truth Movement are dumb enough to bring it up.

OH! Present company excluded.

Who debunked this and where?

http://www.judicialwatch.org/6322.shtml

Judicial Watch Releases New FBI Documents: Osama bin Laden May Have Chartered Saudi Flight Out of U.S. after 9/11

[TC329]

Awesome. Another person who has absolutely no expertise in any required area of knowledge turns out to be a CTer. Just put him over there with Willie Nelson and Marion Cotillard.

How quickly you turn on your own. Sickening. This 9/11 hero was also a "hero" of the debunker movement who "educated" 'twoofers' like me of our ignorance and told us how wrong we were on every issue.

This is like Roberts jumping to the other side of the fence with the exception of course being that Dietl is a 9/11 hero and Mark is a tour guide.

[twinstead]

How do you know for sure that all he or she does is post in Internet forums? Considering you have no way of knowing who it is you're even replying to (i.e., the real person), I'm curious about how you were able to come to that conclusion.

The bluster on these internet forums imply that the evidence the truthers have is SO compelling, so rock solid, that only the mindless sheep debunkers don't see it.

These internet diatribes, one would think, would translate to some real-world results if this evidence were as solid as portrayed. The fact remains that this evidence of inside job is tenuous at best, and sheer fabrication at worst. When I complain that nothing is being done but post on internet forums it's a general observation about the entire movement; it's fairly likely that there may be some individuals who are trying to do more.

Sadly, they don't have much to work with.

[twinstead]

How quickly you turn on your own. Sickening. This 9/11 hero was also a "hero" of the debunker movement who "educated" 'twoofers' like me of our ignorance and told us how wrong we were on every issue.

This is like Roberts jumping to the other side of the fence with the exception of course being that Dietl is a 9/11 hero and Mark is a tour guide.

Righteous indignation used for effect ROCKS!

Quit whining. Tell us how this person's views affects the viability of the truth movement in any way, shape, or form. There are people who used to believe in your fantasies who have 'changed sides' and now think you're a bunch of fools. Believe me if we beat our chests and high-fived each other every time THAT happens we'd wind up bruising ourselves.

[ref]

And sorry redibis. "Bo" Dietl is quite obviously too young to have been a steelworker on the twin towers during their construction. I call BS.

Actually, it seems he really worked there during the towers' construction. He has reportedly stated: "I was an ironworker back in the late 1960s, before I became a cop...".

[HyJinX]

How quickly you turn on your own. Sickening. This 9/11 hero was also a "hero" of the debunker movement who "educated" 'twoofers' like me of our ignorance and told us how wrong we were on every issue.

This is like Roberts jumping to the other side of the fence with the exception of course being that Dietl is a 9/11 hero and Mark is a tour guide.

Silliest post today. Congrats!

[Walter Ego]

And sorry redibis. "Bo" Dietl is quite obviously too young to have been a steelworker on the twin towers during their construction. I call BS.

This page gives his DOB as 1950 which means he would have been a teenager when the WTC was constructed.

Dietl was identified as an ironworker on the WTC on this clip from the Bill O'Reilly Show from a few years ago where, interestingly, he was dissin' Charley Sheen, Mark Cuban and the Loose Change boys.

http://www.nndb.com/people/629/000098335/

Eezqu68XVqE

[RedIbis]

Righteous indignation used for effect ROCKS!

Quit whining. Tell us how this person's views affects the viability of the truth movement in any way, shape, or form. There are people who used to believe in your fantasies who have 'changed sides' and now think you're a bunch of fools. Believe me if we beat our chests and high-fived each other every time THAT happens we'd wind up bruising ourselves.

What's funny about posts like this is that the thread title is misleading. Dietl didn't change sides. He was confrontational with the We Are Change guys at first, but then he does something admirable, he calmly engages them in a discussion, albeit with a good deal of colorful language.

A lot of posters jumped on him without watching the video, all he says is that he has questions and what he initially thought, he didn't "change sides."

[Redtail]

Um... Where did he change sides? I watched the vid and saw nothing that would say he's a "truther" now.

ETA: I've gotta agree with Redibis on this. Dietl did nothing more than discuss his initial thoughts when he was watching the collapses then tries to explain how the collapses happened, and then he voices his displeasure at the BinLaden family members being allowed to leave the country. In fact, IIRC he said something like "The one thing I agree with you on is the BinLadens being allowed to leave the country."

[CHF]

I suppose I'll jump on board with a resounding "so what"? This trickle of unqualified people worn like some kind of badge of honor confuses me.

Even the folks at AE911 with engineering degrees have so far managed to produce nothing in the way of evidence or papers.

God only knows what this latest guy is supposed to contribute.

[Unsecured Coins]

I saw this video earlier today. I made a comment on it about the obvious video editing straight out of Michael Moore's playbook where they cut it up to make him sound like he was saying one thing.




wow. Great editing on the "What I don't understand(cut) Where are the bodies

Have you shown this to Bo yet?



They thought I was flattering them



Thank you. We did send it to him. We'll see if he responds!

[Redtail]

I saw this video earlier today. I made a comment on it about the obvious video editing straight out of Michael Moore's playbook where they cut it up to make him sound like he was saying one thing.





They thought I was flattering them

:eye-poppi

[Walter Ego]

Um... Where did he change sides? I watched the vid and saw nothing that would say he's a "truther" now.

ETA: I've gotta agree with Redibis on this. Dietl did nothing more than discuss his initial thoughts when he was watching the collapses then tries to explain how the collapses happened, and then he voices his displeasure at the BinLaden family members being allowed to leave the country. In fact, IIRC he said something like "The one thing I agree with you on is the BinLadens being allowed to leave the country."

I watched it too. Where did Dietl 'change sides'? I didn't see it. So the OP was BS.

[gc051360]

How quickly you turn on your own. Sickening. This 9/11 hero was also a "hero" of the debunker movement who "educated" 'twoofers' like me of our ignorance and told us how wrong we were on every issue.

This is like Roberts jumping to the other side of the fence with the exception of course being that Dietl is a 9/11 hero and Mark is a tour guide.

What? No.

But, really. RedIbis made an accurate comment. He never "changed sides" or anything, and if he did, so what? That doesn't change anything about the evidence.

[eeyore1954]

When I watched the video I did not get the impression he changed sides. He gave his explanation of how the building couldn't stand. He had many harsh things to say about the FBI but I think he was reffering to incompetance not LIHOP.

But he obviously has some of his facts wrong.
"Where the **** did all these bodies go - it was pulverized - no bones, no DNA was found, I didn't see no body parts" added Dietl, who was on the scene to help rescue workers and firefighters shortly after the towers' collapse.

Plenty of body parts DNA and even a couple hundred intact bodies were found in the wreckage.

I do not know what he meant about no DNA did he expect it to be found that day?
But it doesn't seem to be that unusual that in his time there he didn't see body parts. How much of the total debris would have been remains and did he actually go below the top layer of the debris.

[Pardalis]

Perhaps Mark can come out of retirement and educate this NYPD Detective next?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhOKkVE4v14


He hardly changed his mind. All I can see here are arguments from personal incredulity.

One thing I don't get is that he keeps asking where the bodies went? Hello? If tons of steel was destroyed does he really think human bodies would remain intact?

[Walter Ego]

Quote:
Dietl also described it as a "*********** crime" that members of the Bin Laden family were flown out of the country under FBI supervision in the days following 9/11 (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/30/archive/main313048.shtml)when all other air traffic was grounded.


Do you even read the articles you link to?

Most of bin Laden's relatives were attending high school and college. The young members of the bin Laden family were driven or flown under FBI supervision to a secret place in Texas and then to Washington, The Times reported Sunday.

Many were terrified, fearing they would be lynched after hearing reports of violence against Muslims and Arab-Americans.

They left the country on a private charter plane when airports reopened three days after the attacks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/30/archive/main313048.shtml

I love this because this is the only forum on the net where people defend the "Bin Laden" flights which recent FBI documents say were booked by OBL himself.

Can you give a citation for these 'recent FBI documents'?

[Redtail]

He hardly changed his mind. All I can see here are arguments from personal incredulity.

One thing I don't get is that he keeps asking where the bodies went? Hello? If tons of steel was destroyed does he really think human bodies would remain intact?

I took that as his shock at how these buildings came down and his thoughts at that time. Just poorly worded when dealing with cherry pickers.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

The WTC *********** evaporated?

Sounds like a brilliant guy.


Heh. You should've seen the couple times that The Daily Show had him on...

ETA: Here's one: http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=124625&title=silent-night,-holy-crap

Note that he was a homicide detective with the NYPD...

[~enigma~]

Osama bin Laden May Have Chartered Saudi Flight Out of U.S. after 9/11
No wonder the truth movement is a bunch of impotent morons.

[Mobyseven]

Putting down an NYPD 9/11 hero? You debunkers will stop at nothing it's shameless. Maybe you have some quotes from some of your experts? Remember though... Meigs, and Penn & Teller don't count as experts.

Sorry, are you looking for quotes? (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm)

NIST conducted an extremely thorough three-year investigation into what caused the WTC towers to collapse, as explained in NIST’s dedicated Web site, http://wtc.nist.gov. This included consideration of a number of hypotheses for the collapses of the towers.

Some 200 technical experts—including about 85 career NIST experts and 125 leading experts from the private sector and academia—reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations of the sequence of events that occurred from the moment the aircraft struck the towers until they began to collapse.

[...]

NIST’s findings also do not support the “controlled demolition” theory since there is conclusive evidence that:

the collapse was initiated in the impact and fire floors of the WTC towers and nowhere else, and;

the time it took for the collapse to initiate (56 minutes for WTC 2 and 102 minutes for WTC 1) was dictated by (1) the extent of damage caused by the aircraft impact, and (2) the time it took for the fires to reach critical locations and weaken the structure to the point that the towers could not resist the tremendous energy released by the downward movement of the massive top section of the building at and above the fire and impact floors.

Video evidence also showed unambiguously that the collapse progressed from the top to the bottom, and there was no evidence (collected by NIST, or by the New York Police Department, the Port Authority Police Department or the Fire Department of New York) of any blast or explosions in the region below the impact and fire floors as the top building sections (including and above the 98th floor in WTC 1 and the 82nd floor in WTC 2) began their downward movement upon collapse initiation.

In summary, NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to Sept. 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers. Instead, photographs and videos from several angles clearly show that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward until the dust clouds obscured the view.

[TC329]

Do you even read the articles you link to?





Can you give a citation for these 'recent FBI documents'?

I guess by "recent" it is about 8 months old and yes I read the article I linked it states the FBI believes the flights were arranged by OBL himself and if not then a member of the Royal Saudi family.

Did you read it?

[Walter Ego]

I guess by "recent" it is about 8 months old and yes I read the article I linked it states the FBI believes the flights were arranged by OBL himself and if not then a member of the Royal Saudi family.

Did you read it?

I was referring to this article you quoted.

Most of bin Laden's relatives were attending high school and college. The young members of the bin Laden family were driven or flown under FBI supervision to a secret place in Texas and then to Washington, The Times reported Sunday.

Many were terrified, fearing they would be lynched after hearing reports of violence against Muslims and Arab-Americans.

They left the country on a private charter plane when airports reopened three days after the attacks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...in313048.shtml

When you quoted this.

Dietl also described it as a "*********** crime" that members of the Bin Laden family were flown out of the country under FBI supervision in the days following 9/11 when all other air traffic was grounded (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...in313048.shtml).[/QUOTE]

Dietl was retelling an old cannard about the Bin Laden flights leaving while air traffic was still grounded.

Judicial Watch Releases New FBI Documents: Osama bin Laden May Have Chartered Saudi Flight Out of U.S. after 9/11.

In truther speak 'may have chartered' might mean did charter, in English it doesn't, however.

BTW, the YouTube video in the OP in no way indicates Dietl has 'come over' to the truther side. Do you wish to withdraw that claim now?

[A W Smith]

Once again Dumbenick gets both assertions in the thread title wrong.

There is no evidence that he is a "former debunker" nor that he "changes sides"

[gumboot]

Has Bo Dietl read the NIST report or any other engineering papers on the collapse of the WTC towers? What are his thoughts on the conclusions of these investigations?

[GwionX]

So when will 9/11 truth get a new investigation? Does anyone care anymore?

I don't...Other than casual folly.

Too little, too late and a certain percentage of people will believe/say anything.

Yawn

[Pardalis]

I took that as his shock at how these buildings came down and his thoughts at that time. Just poorly worded when dealing with cherry pickers.

I still don't understand why he asks where the bodies went. I mean, where else?

I'm pretty sure I never heard of a 9/11 body snatching conspiracy theory.

[Redtail]

I still don't understand why he asks where the bodies went. I mean, where else?

I'm pretty sure I never heard of a 9/11 body snatching conspiracy theory.

Ok I worded my response poorly.:o What I meant was I took it as him saying "When I was standing on the rubble, I was asking myself a lot of questions many of which were born out of the incredulity of what I saw. I Your problem is you're still asking these same questions after they've been answered."

Granted I could be wrong because A) I haven't talked to the guy and B) I'm an actor so i tend to look for subtext. I'm good at it but I still have to remind myself that some people mean exactly what they say.

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

There's something sleazy about your comment. I abide a lot of contention on this forum and the best among us debate fiercely but don't lower ourselves to such base personal insult.

While IT still runs away from other threads......

[Pardalis]

Ok I worded my response poorly.:o What I meant was I took it as him saying "When I was standing on the rubble, I was asking myself a lot of questions many of which were born out of the incredulity of what I saw. I Your problem is you're still asking these same questions after they've been answered."

Granted I could be wrong because A) I haven't talked to the guy and B) I'm an actor so i tend to look for subtext. I'm good at it but I still have to remind myself that some people mean exactly what they say.

Yeah, one should have warned him that when talking to cherry pickers (as you said), the extreme kind that is, one should always remember that everything , I mean everything, will be held against you.

I'm willing to bet there will probably be a 9/11 bodys snatching CT just because of that video. :D

Truther: The gubmint took away the bodies! Inside job!

regular Joe: But that's crazy!

Truther: That NYPD detective said so, are you calling him a liar?

[Btodd]

I remember Bo Dietl from the Don Imus show; he was a regular guest. If you listen to him talk for just a few minutes, you will wish he WAS a twoofer.

Not exactly a shiny penny. Always refers to criminals as 'pukes', which he says about every four seconds. He's kind of like Nancy Grace.....almost makes you root for the bad guys just so you won't agree with him.

[OldSchool]

The anti-reality movement actually lost one of there own. This isn't surprising at all. He retired so now he can say what has always been on his mind with no concern for losing his job.

I love to see nothing has changed. The anti-reality movement still lives in a country lead by absolutely no corruption at all. This war is entirely based upon a bunch of rag tag 3rd world nation towel heads who managed to plan and execute the most direct attack our country has experienced since Pearl Harbor. This war couldn't possibly have been planned to improve the economy and pad the bank accounts of corporations through government contracts.

At last count the war is expected to produce over 3 trillion dollars in government contracts.

[Unsecured Coins]

Just out of curiosity, how much experience do you have with "rag tag 3rd World nation Towelheads" anyway?

[OldSchool]

Just out of curiosity, how much experience do you have with "rag tag 3rd World nation Towelheads" anyway?


Taken enough lessons in History, Philosophy, and Religion to understand who they are. I know enough to know they're living in the distant past compared to our standards. Logically there is no possible way the men accused of being involved completed 9-11 without inside support on a very large scale.

[Pardalis]

I know enough to know they're living in the distant past compared to our standards. Logically there is no possible way the men accused of being involved completed 9-11 without inside support on a very large scale.

You mean there is no possible way these people could have built this (http://www.galen-frysinger.ws/Saudi%20Arabia/faisliyah.JPG), or that (http://image62.webshots.com/162/1/79/0/546217900aWaRRu_fs.jpg)?

[beachnut]

Taken enough lessons in History, Philosophy, and Religion to understand who they are. I know enough to know they're living in the distant past compared to our standards. Logically there is no possible way the men accused of being involved completed 9-11 without inside support on a very large scale.
Looks like you forgot to take math, physics and logic to round out your education so you would not make such a failed statement. Got proof? I thought so. How is the book coming, to, too? How typically (logically? Right), hearsay of you.

still no facts, or sources too?

[OldSchool]

You mean there is no possible way these people could have built this (http://www.galen-frysinger.ws/Saudi%20Arabia/faisliyah.JPG), or that (http://image62.webshots.com/162/1/79/0/546217900aWaRRu_fs.jpg)?

What required building related to 9-11. Are you suggesting there were explosives used in some manner?

Flying a plane into the Pentagon, with no inside distractions, is pretty amazing. I mean it is only our National Defense headquarters.

Flying two planes into the World Trade center does pale in comparison to the first although quite a feat indeed.

I guess we should give the reward for distraction to the Vice President.

[OldSchool]

Looks like you forgot to take math, physics and logic to round out your education so you would not make such a failed statement. Got proof? I thought so. How is the book coming, to, too? How typically (logically? Right), hearsay of you.

still no facts, or source too?

The great thing about Logic it doesn't require proof. Logic isn't something I would expect somebody of your likes to comprehend.

Should I have used the term Common Sense?

[Arus808]

common sense told us that the earth of flat
common sense told us that we could never fly like birds.

gee, that common sense always seems to be wrong.

[Pardalis]

What required building related to 9-11. Are you suggesting there were explosives used in some manner?

Flying a plane into the Pentagon, with no inside distractions, is pretty amazing. I mean it is only our National Defense headquarters.

Flying two planes into the World Trade center does pale in comparison to the first although quite a feat indeed.

I guess we should give the reward for distraction to the Vice President.

No, you seem to be saying that since you think Arabs aren't capable of executing complex things on a large scale:

a bunch of rag tag 3rd world nation towel heads who managed to plan and execute the most direct attack our country has experienced since Pearl Harbor.

Taken enough lessons in History, Philosophy, and Religion to understand who they are. I know enough to know they're living in the distant past compared to our standards.

that therefore, in your mind, those 19 highjackers couldn't possibly have executed 9/11:

Logically there is no possible way the men accused of being involved completed 9-11 without inside support on a very large scale.

My point with those pictures of Saudi buildings is that Arabs are as much able and capable as any other people, so therefore your point is moot.

[Redtail]

The anti-reality movement actually lost one of there own. This isn't surprising at all. He retired so now he can say what has always been on his mind with no concern for losing his job.

I love to see nothing has changed. The anti-reality movement still lives in a country lead by absolutely no corruption at all. This war is entirely based upon a bunch of rag tag 3rd world nation towel heads who managed to plan and execute the most direct attack our country has experienced since Pearl Harbor. This war couldn't possibly have been planned to improve the economy and pad the bank accounts of corporations through government contracts.

At last count the war is expected to produce over 3 trillion dollars in government contracts.

I'm sorry, where exactly does he say he's a truther now? Hell the only point where he said he agreed with the truthers is allowing the BinLaden family to fly out and he has the wrong info on that.

[Confuseling]

Taken enough lessons in History, Philosophy, and Religion to understand who they are. I know enough to know they're living in the distant past compared to our standards. Logically there is no possible way the men accused of being involved completed 9-11 without inside support on a very large scale.
Looks like you forgot to take math, physics and logic to round out your education so you would not make such a failed statement. Got proof? I thought so. How is the book coming, to, too? How typically (logically? Right), hearsay of you.

still no facts, or sources too?

Also looks like he's failed to notice that these 'towel heads' invented a pretty significant slice of medicine, astronomy, mathematics and logic, among other things.

Not to mention keeping Greek philosophy alive while we didn't care cos it weren't in the bible.

Can he please take his racism and go away?

[leftysergeant]

I don't get him calling it an inside job or CD. He admits that the design was flawed, and that the floors could not stand the weight of collapse.

As for no body parts, he must not have been looking in the right places. The fire fighters whom the Naudet brothers were filming mention finding parts of bodies, like a face without any head behind it.

There is little, if anything, of substance in re the collapses in this confrontation.

I just call these twoofers lucky that Dietl is so polite. It is part of a cop's training to restrain himself from grabbing people by the collar to reason with them.

[gumboot]

Flying a plane into the Pentagon, with no inside distractions, is pretty amazing.

What's amazing about it?


Flying two planes into the World Trade center does pale in comparison to the first although quite a feat indeed.

Yes, flying two planes into the WTC would be quite a feat - in fact flying two planes full stop would be quite a feat. Fortunately each of the planes had its own hijacker-pilot, so they only had to each fly one plane into the WTC.

[eeyore1954]

The anti-reality movement actually lost one of there own. This isn't surprising at all. He retired so now he can say what has always been on his mind with no concern for losing his job.

I love to see nothing has changed. The anti-reality movement still lives in a country lead by absolutely no corruption at all. This war is entirely based upon a bunch of rag tag 3rd world nation towel heads who managed to plan and execute the most direct attack our country has experienced since Pearl Harbor. This war couldn't possibly have been planned to improve the economy and pad the bank accounts of corporations through government contracts.

At last count the war is expected to produce over 3 trillion dollars in government contracts.


Just to keep the record straight Bo Dietl retired from the police department over 20 years ago.

a bunch of rag tag 3rd world nation towel heads who managed to plan and execute the most direct attack our country has experienced since Pearl Harbor.

How can you respond to such blatant racism and stupidity as this except I am surprised you didn't point out they operated out of a cave.

[Foolmewunz]

I don't know what video you're watching, TC, but what I saw was a first half of highly edited material, no doubt when he said something that didn't even remotely lean towards your misinterpretation. Why all the cuts? Were those the moments when explained "while I'm sympathetic with your emotions about losing people, I know this is nonsense...."????

The second half - with no cuts - doesn't show him saying anything that supports the TM. He stopped to talk to them to tell them to stop being so disrespectful, and then they edited the video so that it might appear that he's agreeing but if you transcribe it line for line, there's nothing in there saying that they're right.

Epic Fail

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1108547dfb3d61e3b9.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11316)

[Unsecured Coins]

Taken enough lessons in History, Philosophy, and Religion to understand who they are. I know enough to know they're living in the distant past compared to our standards. Logically there is no possible way the men accused of being involved completed 9-11 without inside support on a very large scale.


you ever actually met one? You ever engaged one in combat?

[MarkyX]

At least OldSchool is admitting he is racist. Other 9/11 deniers often try their best to hide it.

[twinstead]

Forget about spewing spittle about us debunkers, any self-respecting truther should be shouting down people like OldSchool, ATrain, Magz, and others with wild abandon. These racists are the true enemies of your movement. The fact is, however, that you really don't care WHO speaks for your movement as long as they tow the party line. This very telling. And not just a little disgusting.

Until you have a tad fewer of those folks carrying your banner, dear truthers, you could be screaming that the sky is blue and nobody will listen to you.

[Mobyseven]

The great thing about Logic it doesn't require proof. Logic isn't something I would expect somebody of your likes to comprehend.

Should I have used the term Common Sense?

Wow. You aren't human. You're an EPICFAILbot.

Logic doesn't require proof? By the beard of Randi, logic is nearly entirely proof!

[OldSchool]

Forget about spewing spittle about us debunkers, any self-respecting truther should be shouting down people like OldSchool, ATrain, Magz, and others with wild abandon. These racists are the true enemies of your movement. The fact is, however, that you really don't care WHO speaks for your movement as long as they tow the party line. This very telling. And not just a little disgusting.

Until you have a tad fewer of those folks carrying your banner, dear truthers, you could be screaming that the sky is blue and nobody will listen to you.

Calling somebody a Towel Head doesn't make you racist. The last time I checked they do where towels over there heads.

The only party line I tow is to vote for anything that runs against a Republican.

Lets talk about disgusting. Government workers and Military personal who wake up day after day knowing, in the back of there head, what there doing in Iraq is wrong. Yet at the end of each week they collect there pay check and go home.

What I do think is wrong with the Truth movement is they bother to debate how 9-11 was carried out. Who and how 9-11 was carried out may never really be known. Why 9-11 was carried out continues to be very obvious.

[HyJinX]

Calling somebody a Towel Head doesn't make you racist. The last time I checked they do where towels over there heads.

Stundied!

[OldSchool]

Wow. You aren't human. You're an EPICFAILbot.

Logic doesn't require proof? By the beard of Randi, logic is nearly entirely proof!

There isn't any proof supplied by either side of this debate. By simply looking at History, Economics, and Politics the obvious is very clear.

Do me a favor and prove to me there isn't life on another planet.

Mathematics reveals, to any logical person, the odds of there not being life on another planet is beyond comprehension. Yet neither side of such an argument can provide proof.

[twinstead]

Calling somebody a Towel Head doesn't make you racist. The last time I checked they do where towels over there heads.


Yea. Right. Do you know what it is really called?


The only party line I tow is to vote for anything that runs against a Republican.


Of course, because it's not about good ideas or bad ideas or evidence or rationality or logic or truth; it's all about ideology, isn't it?


Lets talk about disgusting. Government workers and Military personal who wake up day after day knowing, in the back of there head, what there doing in Iraq is wrong. Yet at the end of each week they collect there pay check and go home.

No, what's disgusting is you daring to even begin to think you know what government workers and military people think in the back of their head.


What I do think is wrong with the Truth movement is they bother to debate how 9-11 was carried out. Who and how 9-11 was carried out may never really be known. Why 9-11 was carried out continues to be very obvious.

The only reason you say who and how 9-11 was carried out may never really be known is because the way you WANT it to have been has no evidence to support it. You've tripped the woo woo circuit breaker to keep you from having to deal with that by copping out. At least other truthers stand up for what they believe and at least TRY to prove their case.

And believe me, what's 'obvious' to you could very well be a complete fantasy; you may just not know it.

[stateofgrace]

Calling somebody a Towel Head doesn't make you racist. The last time I checked they do where towels over there heads.

The only party line I tow is to vote for anything that runs against a Republican.

Lets talk about disgusting. Government workers and Military personal who wake up day after day knowing, in the back of there head, what there doing in Iraq is wrong. Yet at the end of each week they collect there pay check and go home.

What I do think is wrong with the Truth movement is they bother to debate how 9-11 was carried out. Who and how 9-11 was carried out may never really be known. Why 9-11 was carried out continues to be very obvious.

The floor is all yours.

Please explain,in your own words,why the Sept 11th attacks were carried out.

[OldSchool]

What's amazing about it?




Yes, flying two planes into the WTC would be quite a feat - in fact flying two planes full stop would be quite a feat. Fortunately each of the planes had its own hijacker-pilot, so they only had to each fly one plane into the WTC.


Flying two planes into the world Trade Center without them being shot down is surprising, but I can imagine possibly we were taken off guard.

Flying a plane into a National Defense Headquarters is a completely different animal. It couldn't have possibly been done without some serious distraction.

[twinstead]

Mathematics reveals, to any logical person, the odds of there not being life on another planet is beyond comprehension. Yet neither side of such an argument can provide proof.

And your beliefs about 911, IMO, are akin to the one on the 'not life on other planets' side your analogous debate, and using 'neither side of such an argument can provide proof' as the ONLY argument he can muster.

Of course there's actual evidence that the official account of 911 makes the most sense. There's no evidence of alien life. The odds are that it exists.

[chillzero]

Let's stop this derail before it gets any further, and raise the civility levels a bit. The topic is about a specific person and comments made by, and reported about, him.

[OldSchool]

The floor is all yours.

Please explain,in your own words,why the Sept 11th attacks were carried out.

Money

[chillzero]

Start a new thread, OldSchool.

[stateofgrace]

Money

Take the advice posted by the moderator and start a new thread and fully explain why the Sept 11th attacks were carried out.

Do not further derail this thread and do not dimsiss my question with your one word answer.

[Dave Rogers]

So, getting back to the thread topic, we've found that Dietl is a former NYPD detective, that he isn't an "ex-debunker", and that he hasn't changed sides. The third word is a pretty impressive TTFL, TC329 - you didn't even make it through the thread title.

Dave

[SpitfireIX]

Taken enough lessons in History, Philosophy, and Religion to understand who they are. I know enough to know they're living in the distant past compared to our standards. Logically there is no possible way the men accused of being involved completed 9-11 without inside support on a very large scale.


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1706047dfe38b9225d.jpg

ETA: Sorry, Chillzero; I replied before I saw your request. I'll take any other discussion to the new thread.

[uk_dave]

Do you think their heads go to the tops of those hoods?

[1337m4n]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but where does this guy explicitly state that he believes the towers were brought down with husabooms/thermite magic bombs/space beams?

I WIN THE THREAD!!!

[Jonnyclueless]

Has anyone yet written a peer reviewed paper on the evaporation of the WTC?

[Hyperviolet]

Stundied!

That is quite a Stundie, indeed.

[pomeroo]

Calling somebody a Towel Head doesn't make you racist. The last time I checked they do where towels over there heads.

The only party line I tow is to vote for anything that runs against a Republican.

Lets talk about disgusting. Government workers and Military personal who wake up day after day knowing, in the back of there head, what there doing in Iraq is wrong. Yet at the end of each week they collect there pay check and go home.

What I do think is wrong with the Truth movement is they bother to debate how 9-11 was carried out. Who and how 9-11 was carried out may never really be known. Why 9-11 was carried out continues to be very obvious.


I wake up every day thinking that liberating Iraq from a brutal tyranny was right--obviously and undeniably right. You wake up every day wishing that Saddam Hussein remained in power to oppress his long-suffering people. The Iraqis, overwhelmingly, are glad to be rid of the monster whose secret police whisked off their loved ones in the middle of the night. Comically, you take your evil position and attempt to mount a moral high horse. Who are you kidding?

[pomeroo]

Flying two planes into the world Trade Center without them being shot down is surprising, but I can imagine possibly we were taken off guard.

Flying a plane into a National Defense Headquarters is a completely different animal. It couldn't have possibly been done without some serious distraction.


Your assumption is wrong. There are no special defenses protecting the Pentagon.

[A W Smith]

The anti-reality movement actually lost one of there own. This isn't surprising at all. He retired so now he can say what has always been on his mind with no concern for losing his job.



Hes has been retired for quite some time. Before you were born.

Dietl retired from the NYPD in March 1985



Here is a link to his web site. Can you point out to us where he states he has switched sides?
http://www.beaudietl.com/

[Cl1mh4224rd]

The great thing about Logic it doesn't require proof.


Holy mother of God... I... I...

[HyJinX]

Holy mother of God... I... I...

Yeah. Exactly.

I had to do a shot of Jameson in order to let that go.

[RedIbis]

Add Dietl to the long list of people who received word that WTC 7 was going to collapse. According to this interview this takes place at 3:30 in the afternoon.

This is to distinguish the reality of word being passed down to the street, from the myth of universal assumption of collapse.

In other words, he's another guy who got word that the bldg would collapse, not that he concluded this on his own.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Add Dietl to the long list of people who received word that WTC 7 was going to collapse. According to this interview this takes place at 3:30 in the afternoon.

This is to distinguish the reality of word being passed down to the street, from the myth of universal assumption of collapse.

In other words, he's another guy who got word that the bldg would collapse, not that he concluded this on his own.


Aaaaaand?

If you're trying to suggest that more people "hearing about" something than "figure it out themselves", then... congratulations; you've found a game you can't possibly lose.

Now... what makes that suspicious?

[RedIbis]

Now... what makes that suspicious?

As I've stated before, it puts to rest the idea that the damage to WTC 7 was so extensive, eyewitnesses on the scene had universally concluded its collapse was imminent.

I believe this is what you refer to as debunked.

[Garb]

As I've stated before, it puts to rest the idea that the damage to WTC 7 was so extensive, eyewitnesses on the scene had universally concluded its collapse was imminent.

I believe this is what you refer to as debunked.

I believe Gravy had a list of witnesses who described the building as in danger of collapsing. Firefighters who heard the building creaking and saw the building leaning.

Now do those people not count or were they just describing what others saw?

[RedIbis]

I believe Gravy had a list of witnesses who described the building as in danger of collapsing. Firefighters who heard the building creaking and saw the building leaning.

Now do those people not count or were they just describing what others saw?

You believe? Or you read them for yourself, like I did.

Go back and read through those firefighter accounts, and others on the scene. See how many use the pronoun "they" when describing who told them the bldg would collapse.

Compare that with the amount of witnesses who concluded for themselves that the bldg would collapse.

You might be shocked.

[Jonnyclueless]

Yes quite a few people who knew it was bound to collapse. And those are just the people who mentioned it without being asked.

[WildCat]

You believe? Or you read them for yourself, like I did.

Go back and read through those firefighter accounts, and others on the scene. See how many use the pronoun "they" when describing who told them the bldg would collapse.

Compare that with the amount of witnesses who concluded for themselves that the bldg would collapse.

You might be shocked.
Hmmmmm... (http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html)
By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o�clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o�clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Looks like you're full of crap again RedIbis. But don't let the facts get in the way of your MIHOP fantasy.

[WildCat]

And for the idiots who say that WTC 7 only had a few small fires, you're wrong (http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/modica.html):

Buildings were burning, 7 World Trade was burning from the ground to the ceiling fully involved. It was unbelievable.

[WildCat]

More testimony from a fireman who didn't need to be told WTC 7 was in danger of collapsing (http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/boyle.html):

So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn't look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn't look good.

But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we're going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn't look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn't really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I'm standing next to said, that building doesn't look straight. So I'm standing there. I'm looking at the building. It didn't look right, but, well, we'll go in, we'll see. So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody's going into 7, there's creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.

[RedIbis]

More testimony from a fireman who didn't need to be told WTC 7 was in danger of collapsing (http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/boyle.html):

Where in that quote does he say he thought the bldg would suddenly collapse?

The most he says for himself is that it doesn't look good, straight or right. He doesn't say he thinks it's going to collapse.

The other quote from Hayden is one of a total of eight eyewitness accounts out of the 86 on Gravy's list who state they personally thought the bldg would collapse.

[1337m4n]

Add Dietl to the long list of people who received word that WTC 7 was going to collapse. According to this interview this takes place at 3:30 in the afternoon.

This is to distinguish the reality of word being passed down to the street, from the myth of universal assumption of collapse.

In other words, he's another guy who got word that the bldg would collapse, not that he concluded this on his own.

Who told him redibis?

Who told him it was going to collapse?

Also who told the firefighters?

[WildCat]

Where in that quote does he say he thought the bldg would suddenly collapse?
Stop playing stupid Red. It's quiote clear he didn't think it was safe to go in WTC 7.

It's also clear that the firefighters at the scene made the determination that WTC was in danger of collapsing, they didn't get a call from someone telling them so.

I really don't understand how you can function in your personal life with such pathetic reasoning skills.

[RedIbis]

Who told him redibis?

Who told him it was going to collapse?

Also who told the firefighters?

I know who Capt. Currid says told him, do you?

[1337m4n]

I know who Capt. Currid says told him, do you?

No that's why I'm asking you. :D

[RedIbis]

No that's why I'm asking you. :D

I'm not doing your homework for you. Gravy did a good job. Check his list.

[LashL]

The most he says for himself is that it doesn't look good, straight or right. He doesn't say he thinks it's going to collapse.


Hmm. A firefighter at the scene is concerned because he sees a 20 story hole in the side of the building, says that the building doesn't look good, doesn't look right or straight, that there is debris falling, that there is insufficient water pressure, that he suspects that the standpipes are shot, and that his stomach tightened up at the thought of going into the building.

Gee, I dunno, RedIbis, what do you think he was concerned about?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

As I've stated before, it puts to rest the idea that the damage to WTC 7 was so extensive, eyewitnesses on the scene had universally concluded its collapse was imminent.

I believe this is what you refer to as debunked.


Bo Dietl was on the scene at WTC7?

[1337m4n]

I'm not doing your homework for you. Gravy did a good job. Check his list.

But you've said you already know the name. Me, I'm not even sure what I'm looking for?

This man, whoever he was...was he lying?

[RedIbis]

But you've said you already know the name. Me, I'm not even sure what I'm looking for?

This man, whoever he was...was he lying?

Everyone is lying except those who support your opinion. Feel better now?

[WildCat]

Bo Dietl was on the scene at WTC7?
I don't think so, considering he retired from the police in the 1980's.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

As I've stated before, it puts to rest the idea that the damage to WTC 7 was so extensive, eyewitnesses on the scene had universally concluded its collapse was imminent.

I believe this is what you refer to as debunked.
Bo Dietl was on the scene at WTC7?
I don't think so, considering he retired from the police in the 1980's.



Then I wonder why RedIbis would even attempt to claim that Bo Dietl being told that WTC7 would collapse "puts to rest" the claim that "eyewitnesses on the scene had universally concluded its collapse was imminent" if Bo Dietl wasn't one of those eyewitnesses.

Care to clarify, RedIbis? Do you know something about this that we don't? Was Bo Dietl on the scene at WTC7 on September 11th?

[TC329]

I wake up every day thinking that liberating Iraq from a brutal tyranny was right--obviously and undeniably right. You wake up every day wishing that Saddam Hussein remained in power to oppress his long-suffering people. The Iraqis, overwhelmingly, are glad to be rid of the monster whose secret police whisked off their loved ones in the middle of the night. Comically, you take your evil position and attempt to mount a moral high horse. Who are you kidding?

Now I understand who you really are. You think it's great that a 1,000,000 Iraqis have been slaughtered in the last 5 years. That we shut down Abu Ghraib and opened it back up under new management. That the new Hitmen for Saddam are Blackwater mercenary contractors raping and killing innocent Iraqi citizens. No weapons of mass destruction. No ties to Al Qaeda. No threat to America.

4000 Dead Americans.
30,000+ missing limbs.
200,000 missing barrels of oil a day
10,700,000,000 4th qtr Exxon profit
4,140,000,000 4th qtr Chevron profit
1,800,000,000 3rd qtr BP profit
0 Weapons of mass destruction
0 Ties to Al Qaeda
0 REAL REASONS TO BE IN IRAQ

[Garb]

I have found 4 of 20 accounts where the eyewitnesses were told of structural failure. 7 of 32 for fires. Two men, Chief Hayden and Captain Varriale were among those who said that the building was not sound.

What is shocking is how you believe the majority were told by uppers in the FDNY, when a lot of "them" are named in the quote. Do you implicate them in just relaying a cover story?

[Unsecured Coins]

0 REAL REASONS TO BE IN IRAQ

17 violated UN resolutions. Why wasn't that number in your figures?

[johnny karate]

Where in that quote does he say he thought the bldg would suddenly collapse?

The most he says for himself is that it doesn't look good, straight or right. He doesn't say he thinks it's going to collapse.

The other quote from Hayden is one of a total of eight eyewitness accounts out of the 86 on Gravy's list who state they personally thought the bldg would collapse.

In almost seven years, not a single firefighter that was on the scene has expressed even the slightest bit of doubt or suspicion regarding the official version of events for the collapse of WTC7.

Not one.

And you and the rest of your cohorts know this.

Stop trying to parse their testimonies to make them suit your agenda. The members of FDNY that were on the scene are unanimous in their professional opinion that WTC7 collapsed due to debris damage and fire. No amount of tortured interpretations of their oral histories changes this.

Go back to arguing what "pull" means, RedIbis, because you've got absolutely no traction on this issue.

[WildCat]

Putting down an NYPD 9/11 hero?
Bo Dietl retired 16 years before 9/11. He had nothing to do with with search and rescue on 9/11, and wasn't at the scene.

[Corsair 115]

17 violated UN resolutions. Why wasn't that number in your figures?Yeah, but pragmatically and realistically, there are other countries how have or are now violating UN resolutions as well. So in that regard I wouldn't call the particular item you mentioned a pressing or compelling reason.

[Bluekush623]

Bo Dietl retired 16 years before 9/11. He had nothing to do with with search and rescue on 9/11, and wasn't at the scene.


If you watch the youtube video in the op, Bo Dietl says he was at the scene from atleast 3:30p.m till 6pm.

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

Do you think their heads go to the tops of those hoods?


http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_2186347e0d31aea424.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11330)

[twinstead]

Everyone is lying except those who support your opinion. Feel better now?

Wait. Isn't that what YOU think? Gee, you'd think that both we and you think everybody except who supports our opinion is lying. I guess all there is now is to just see who has more people who support his position.

Whoops. That would be us. I guess we must have more liar witnesses on our side.

[RedIbis]

Then I wonder why RedIbis would even attempt to claim that Bo Dietl being told that WTC7 would collapse "puts to rest" the claim that "eyewitnesses on the scene had universally concluded its collapse was imminent" if Bo Dietl wasn't one of those eyewitnesses.

Care to clarify, RedIbis? Do you know something about this that we don't? Was Bo Dietl on the scene at WTC7 on September 11th?

It's obvious that neither you nor WildCat watched the video.

[WildCat]

If you watch the youtube video in the op, Bo Dietl says he was at the scene from atleast 3:30p.m till 6pm.
And how did Bo get to the scene whan everyone else (including most firemen after 2pm or so) was kept away? I doubt Bo was within a half mile of "the scene".

eta: he even says that when he got there (he actually says at 2) he was sent away because WTC 7 was going to collapse.

[Jonnyclueless]

Now I understand who you really are. You think it's great that a 1,000,000 Iraqis have been slaughtered in the last 5 years. That we shut down Abu Ghraib and opened it back up under new management. That the new Hitmen for Saddam are Blackwater mercenary contractors raping and killing innocent Iraqi citizens. No weapons of mass destruction. No ties to Al Qaeda. No threat to America.

4000 Dead Americans.
30,000+ missing limbs.
200,000 missing barrels of oil a day
10,700,000,000 4th qtr Exxon profit
4,140,000,000 4th qtr Chevron profit
1,800,000,000 3rd qtr BP profit
0 Weapons of mass destruction
0 Ties to Al Qaeda
0 REAL REASONS TO BE IN IRAQ


And there we have it. It has nothing to do with truth, but rather using 9/11 as a tool to server your political agenda. You could care less about those people, you just want a tool to fling mud. Not good enough to disagree, you guys have to drag the victims of 9/11 into your little game.

Well, thanks for letting those of us living in reality know where you are coming from. Back to wondering why the rest of the world doesn't take you seriously.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

If you watch the youtube video in the op, Bo Dietl says he was at the scene from atleast 3:30p.m till 6pm.


The area around WTC7 was evacuated around 3:30pm, roughly. The building collapsed at 5:20pm.

It's not possible that he was "on the scene" at WTC7 for that time frame.

Therefore, RedIbis' claim that this "puts to rest" the idea that "eyewitnesses on the scene had universally concluded its collapse was imminent" is still unsupported.

[1337m4n]

4000 Dead Americans.
30,000+ missing limbs.
200,000 missing barrels of oil a day
10,700,000,000 4th qtr Exxon profit
4,140,000,000 4th qtr Chevron profit
1,800,000,000 3rd qtr BP profit
0 Weapons of mass destruction
0 Ties to Al Qaeda
0 REAL REASONS TO BE IN IRAQ

How did the Bad Guys manage to botch that?