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idunno
17th March 2008, 08:29 PM
Where did the Universe Come From?
Part 4: "If you can read this sentence,
I can prove to you that God exists"

hi,

See this email I just sent you, that you're reading
right now? This email is proof of the existence of God.

Yeah, I know, that sounds crazy. But I'm not asking you
to believe anything just yet, until you see the evidence for
yourself. All I ask is that you refrain from disbelieving
while I show you my proof. It only takes a minute to convey,
but it speaks to one of the most important questions of all
time.

So how is this email proof of the existence of God?:

This email you're reading contains letters, words and
sentences. It contains a message that means something.
As long as you can read English, you can understand what
I'm saying.

You can do all kinds of things with this email. You
can read it on your computer screen. You can print it out on
your printer. You can read it out loud to a friend who's in
the same room as you are. You can call your friend and read it
to her over the telephone. You can save it as a Microsoft
WORD document. You can forward it to someone via email, or you
can post it on a website.

Regardless of how you copy it or where you send it,
the information remains the same. My email contains a message.
It contains information in the form of language. The message
is independent of the medium it is sent in.

Messages are not matter, even though they can be carried
by matter (like printing this email on a piece of paper).

Messages are not energy even though they can be carried
by energy (like the sound of my voice.)

Messages are immaterial. Information is itself a unique
kind of entity. It can be stored and transmitted and copied
in many forms, but the meaning still stays the same.

Messages can be in English, French or Chinese.
Or Morse Code. Or mating calls of birds. Or the Internet.
Or radio or television. Or computer programs or architect
blueprints or stone carvings. Every cell in your body
contains a message encoded in DNA, representing a complete
plan for you.

OK, so what does this have to do with God?

It's very simple. Messages, languages, and coded
information ONLY come from a mind. A mind that
agrees on an alphabet and a meaning of words and
sentences. A mind that expresses both desire and
intent.

Whether I use the simplest possible explanation,
such as the one I'm giving you here, or if we analyze
language with advanced mathematics and engineering
communication theory, we can say this with total
confidence:

"Messages, languages and coded information never,
ever come from anything else besides a mind.
No one has ever produced a single example of a message
that did not come from a mind."

Nature can create fascinating patterns - snowflakes,
sand dunes, crystals, stalagmites and stalactites. Tornados
and turbulence and cloud formations.

But non-living things cannot create language. They
*cannot* create codes. Rocks cannot think and they
cannot talk. And they cannot create information.

It is believed by some that life on planet earth arose
accidentally from the "primordial soup," the early ocean which
produced enzymes and eventually RNA, DNA, and primitive cells.

But there is still a problem with this theory: It fails to
answer the question, 'Where did the information come from?'

DNA is not merely a molecule. Nor is it simply a "pattern."
Yes, it contains chemicals and proteins, but those chemicals
are arranged to form an intricate language, in the exact same way
that English and Chinese and HTML are languages.

DNA has a four-letter alphabet, and structures very similar
to words, sentences and paragraphs. With very precise
instructions and systems that check for errors and correct them.

To the person who says that life arose naturally,
you need only ask: "Where did the information come from?
Show me just ONE example of a language that didn't come
from a mind."

As simple as this question is, I've personally presented it
in public presentations and Internet discussion forums for
more than two years. I've addressed more than fifty thousand
people, including hostile, skeptical audiences who insist that
life arose without the assistance of God.

But to a person, none of them have ever been able to
explain where the information came from. This riddle is
"So simple any child can understand; so complex, no atheist
can solve."

You can hear or read my full presentation on this topic at
http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/ifyoucanreadthis.htm (http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/ifyoucanreadthis.htm)

For a high-school level, layman's version, go here:
http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/information.htm (http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/information.htm)

Matter and energy have to come from somewhere. Everyone
can agree on that. But information has to come from somewhere,
too! Information is separate entity, fully on par with matter and
energy. And information can only come from a mind. If books
and poems and TV shows come from human intelligence, then all
living things inevitably came from a superintelligence.

Every word you hear, every sentence you speak, every
dog that barks, every song you sing, every email you read,
every packet of information that zings across the Internet,
is proof of the existence of God. Because information
and language always originate in a mind.

In the beginning were words and language.

In the Beginning was Information.

When we consider the mystery of life - where it came from
and how this miracle is possible - do we not at the same time
ask the question where it is going, and what its purpose is?

Respectfully Submitted,

Perry Marshall

Further reading:

-"If you can read this, I can prove God exists" - listen to
my full presentation or read the Executive Summary here:

http://cosmicfingerprints.com/ifyoucanreadthis.htm (http://cosmicfingerprints.com/ifyoucanreadthis.htm)

-The Atheist's Riddle: Members of Infidels, the world's
largest atheist discussion board attempt to solve it
(for well over a year now!), without success:

-http://cosmicfingerprints.com/iidb.htm

-"OK, so then who made God?" and other questions about
information and origins:

http://cosmicfingerprints.com/infotheoryqa.htm (http://cosmicfingerprints.com/infotheoryqa.htm)

P.S.: Preview of tomorrow: You get to listen in on one of the most
fascinating science lectures I've ever had the privilege of hearing.
A presentation in which hard science and faith fuse together in
a fascinating tour of this magnificently engineered universe
that is our home.

Cosmic Fingerprints, 67 East Algonquin Road, S. Barrington IL 60010 USA

To unsubscribe or change subscriber options visit:
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idunno
17th March 2008, 08:37 PM
is he mad?????????????:o

Careyp74
17th March 2008, 08:58 PM
Tell us what you think

bignickel
17th March 2008, 09:44 PM
"message only come from a mind" is about where he lost me.

Actually, "All I ask is that you refrain from disbelieving while I show you my proof" is where I began to have grave doubts: not believing is not the same as disbelieving, etc. Asking me to refrain from any thinking-related activity is pretty much a bad way to present an argument.

gdtbiker
17th March 2008, 10:40 PM
I get a message from my calculator every time I punch the buttons to add two numbers - the answer. So my calculator has a mind? I also get a message/information/answer when I slide the beads around on my abacus to perform some mathematical operation. I get a message about the taste of an apple whenever I take a bite - the apple provided the information database for me to access. Every time I pick up a rock (especially a fossil, which I am quite fond of) I get a message about it's history, origins, composition, etc. from it by reading it and observing it and investigating it more closely. Of course a message is only a message if a Human considers it to be a message.

So, yeah, He's Mad! :D

fromdownunder
18th March 2008, 12:32 AM
Messages can be in English, French or Chinese.
Or Morse Code. Or mating calls of birds. Or the Internet.
Or radio or television. Or computer programs or architect
blueprints or stone carvings. Every cell in your body
contains a message encoded in DNA, representing a complete
plan for you.

It's very simple. Messages, languages, and coded
information ONLY come from a mind. A mind that
agrees on an alphabet and a meaning of words and
sentences. A mind that expresses both desire and
intent.



So birds agree on an alphabet, and a meaning of words and sentences.

Thanks for playing, please try again.

Norm

Ysidro
18th March 2008, 01:45 AM
Even if the rest of the arguement is valid, it "God exists" does not follow. Sorry.

bellonax
18th March 2008, 05:10 AM
I tried to read that, I really did - but my brain gave up on me half way down. Was there anything of interest in that or was it all b*ll*cks as it seemed?

Complexity
18th March 2008, 05:14 AM
:hit:

:s2:

:wave1

Zep
18th March 2008, 05:42 AM
Who's got the cards?

idunno
18th March 2008, 06:00 AM
hes bent on converting me. lets see what comes next:D

Zep
18th March 2008, 06:08 AM
Someone! PLEASE get a deck of cards, shuffle, and deal them for god's sake...!

idunno
18th March 2008, 06:11 AM
Someone! PLEASE get a deck of cards, shuffle, and deal them for god's sake...!

ok i wont post them:D

sophia8
18th March 2008, 06:15 AM
I get dozens of spam emails every day. "Girlfriends are dreaming about big ma|e aggregate" = God exists?
Um, no.

a_unique_person
18th March 2008, 06:17 AM
I tried to read that, I really did - but my brain gave up on me half way down. Was there anything of interest in that or was it all b*ll*cks as it seemed?

I gave up after the first sentence.

fuelair
18th March 2008, 06:29 AM
Yawwwwwn!



Words cannot create something from nothing(physical world.).

Beerina
18th March 2008, 09:48 AM
He presumes deep meaning to the information that doesn't actually exist. In reality there is physics-based computation and exchange of information. We're all just fancy computers who yell when we feel pain.

It has nothing to do with the existence of a god. Even the existence of consciousness itself (as opposed to an intelligent but unconscious entity) is really just part of a computational device, a device which uses properties of reality, such as the experience of pain or pleasure, to calculate decisions on what to do next.

So, no. This virtual world inside the mind is part of the calculating device constructed by the real-world brain and evolution. For better or for worse, reality contains features that can construct consciousness, and evolution latched onto them as it built bigger and bigger brains, and put it to work. Next thing you know, people are raping babies to death and telling each other "you must join my health care plan or I'll put you in jail."

godless dave
19th March 2008, 01:41 PM
He torpedoed his own argument with "Every cell in your body contains a message encoded in DNA, representing a complete plan for you."

In the case of DNA, the medium does matter. The "message" in DNA can only be used to build something if it's in the form of a DNA molecule. You can't make a life form with a list of Gs, As, Ts, and Cs.

DNA isn't a "message" at all.