Loose Toothers think JREF is all about them

[Thunder]

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/148221/1/#new

So funny. They think the Conspiracy Theory section is all there is to JREF.

[Drudgewire]

I can honestly say it's getting very boring over there.

Same old same old.

Yes, there isn't anything new and revealing to add to the 9/11 case.

Regardless, I think 2008 is going to be a year of major developments.
Keep reaching for that rainbow MM. :dl:

[Blender Head]

Hahaha, JREFers are the conspiracists!

I never really paid attention to what JREF kooks have to say anyways...

They are guilty of accusing us of the most massive conspiracy of all. If anything, they are the one's with the tinfoil hats, calling thousands and millions of people "conspirators" in a plot to perpetrate a hoax unto the world.

They are the nutjobs.

[gc051360]

Wow. That thread is ridiculous.

So much misinformation in one thread, is hard to believe.

What's with that "MirageMemories" guy? He basically makes things up, and states them as fact.

[tkingdoll]

Well, they're complaining about you obsessing over them, and here you are, starting a thread about them complaining about it...

Irony!

[gc051360]

Well, they're complaining about you obsessing over them, and here you are, starting a thread about them complaining about it...

Irony!

Yes. Seems a bit ironic.

I'm glad I don't post on that forum though. My head would explode if I read that stuff on a regular basis.

[Arus808]

well with the CIT con men and Killtown. yes, anyone who steps into that forum of nuttery, is bound to lose their sanity, and a few iq points

[johnny karate]

MirageMemories is truly priceless. I'm still not sure if his schtick is a huge put-on or if he really believes that paranoid tripe he slings.

[Blender Head]

Well, they're complaining about you obsessing over them, and here you are, starting a thread about them complaining about it...

Irony!

I'm not trying to be bullish but who is complaining? Personally I find this thread, pointing to the LC thread, sort've like reading the Sunday Funnies.

[Pato2747]

Again I'll say, JREF'ers LIVE AND DIE by the truth movement Yes, because we TOTALLY don't discuss about paranormal stuff, religion, and general talk and humor. NO, this is only to debunk the truth movement.... Their sole purpose as an online entity, is to 'oppose' the TM. I'm not even going to say anything about that. Like histrionic teens, they thrive off of the 'drama' of it all.I'm gonna let that statement speak for itself. Why should they be a factor or be validated with attention given the PROVEN and demonstrated nature of their ways?CAPS FOR EMPHASIS!


Ahem.

My 0.02.

[tkingdoll]

I'm not trying to be bullish but who is complaining? Personally I find this thread, pointing to the LC thread, sort've like reading the Sunday Funnies.

I didn't say anyone here was complaining. I said it was ironic to start a thread about them complaining about this forum being obsessed with them. It would certainly appear that they are complaining, given the whiny tone of their posts, but perhaps they're just doing it to get your attention. Kind of a 'get a room for a reachround' scenario. Anyway, it's ironic.

[Blender Head]

Ahem.

My 0.02.

But it gets better:

For starters, a group that loosely labels all 9/11 researchers as 'anti-semites', and won't correct each other when slander is rampant?

A group who's forum is riddled with personal attacks and sarcasm,disguised as debate?

And

The word 'debunk' has become an overnight success, a household term now. Such a loose term with loose standards in so many ways also. I guess I wonder how the monster grew to be a monster, when the monster throws peanuts from the closet, and depends on the sleeping child for it's very own existence.

(Replace 'debunk' with 'Truth')

[Blender Head]

I didn't say anyone here was complaining. I said it was ironic to start a thread about them complaining about this forum being obsessed with them. It would certainly appear that they are complaining, given the whiny tone of their posts, but perhaps they're just doing it to get your attention. Kind of a 'get a room for a reachround' scenario. Anyway, it's ironic.

Ah, gotcha. I thought you meant the concept of us posting their complaints was ironic in the sense that we were complaining about their complaints, if that makes any sense.

[Anti-sophist]

That thread is not even remotely scratching the surface of the fringe of the conspiracy theorists' beliefs about JREF. Amongst some rather "prominent" conspiracy theorists, this forum represents a central front in their battle against shadowy enemies.

If you don't believe me...
http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=196

Just be warned that I am not liable for lost IQ points that result from reading the above...

[peteweaver]

Truth to truthers is like a staircase to a Dalek.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1549047e04b1a0b3a2.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11325)

[8den]

So let me get this straight the Loose change forum is on its what 4th incarnation? It's supposed to be an "internet legend" yet in its current incarnation it's membership is around 300l. This membership includes previously banned members like Killtown, Stundie, Pdoh, and Jackchit, who have posted frankly delusional lunacy.

Theres a reason I don't check the new loose change forum, it's utterly irrelevant, aside from checking up on Dylan's "career".

[tkingdoll]

Ah, gotcha. I thought you meant the concept of us posting their complaints was ironic in the sense that we were complaining about their complaints, if that makes any sense.

Yes, it does.

I do wonder, though, if the Loose Change folk actually know what 'JREF' stands for? Doesn't it occur to them to question why an aged ex-magician-turned-paranormal-debunker would create what they think is a 9/11 CT board?

[Walter Ego]

Seems like the JREF forums were specifically set up (http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=196)to counter the 'truth' movement. :jaw-dropp

Posted: Jun 25 2007, 03:03 PM

Prole, the archives date back to just after Sept 11 (around Sept 17) when they first opened up the forum, you are correct.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010907195732/.../ultimatebb.cgi

You'll notice how in July-August 2001 there were no forums and they were started in Sept 2001 http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.randi.org/

We should dig around and see what can be salvalged from the archives. My assumption is that JREF was not setup to originally debunk 9-11 truth-seekers but perhaps the forum was? It's difficult to know at this point.

David



Posted: Jun 25 2007, 06:58 PM

Yep, according to WayBack, in July 20, 2001 they had no forum:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010722040940/http://randi.org/

But buy September 17, 2001, they did!

http://web.archive.org/web/20010918121805/.../www.randi.org/

Killtown

[Calcas]

Yes, it does.

I do wonder, though, if the Loose Change folk actually know what 'JREF' stands for? Doesn't it occur to them to question why an aged ex-magician-turned-paranormal-debunker would create what they think is a 9/11 CT board?

Hey Teek, you don't seem to hang out over here much (not that I blame you) but I appreciated your post re: the irony of the OP.

The LC folk are a very diverse group.

"Some" understand that the posters they refer to as "JREF'ers" are only a small part of what this board is all about. But, the majority seem to think that the evil JREF'ers represent Randi as well.

This board (and this sub-forum specifically) seems to be the greatest threat to their 911 "inside job" delusions. There are so many posters here that have specific experience relevant to their claims that this is where they choose to focus their hate. Of course, their "claims" are are along the lines that the Gubmint story is false. No one on their side has ever presented a plausible theory as to what else may have happened but that doesn't stop them from presenting the same lies over and over again.

It's really no different than Sylvia Brown or any other charlatan. Some actually believe. Others are just too stupid to know when to question woo.

But, they hate the JREF'ers so much because we're the ones who appear to challenge them the most.

Stick around in here. We need more chicks. :D

[VespaGuy]

I occasionally peek at the Loose Change Forums from time to time, but they are horribley dead. There is only a small handful of regulars left, so there isn't much going on there.

Not only is JREF all about them (at least to the Truthers), everything is about them. They live in a world of paranoia where everybody is out to get them; frankly it's beyond funny and is actually quite sad.

Case in point, here's just one recent thread at LCF: http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/148328/1/#new It appears that one of the members thinks he's being setup by the government because of a piece of mail he read that belongs to hs wife. Instead of actually talking to his wife, he asks the other forum members what he should do!! Am I the only one that finds this disturbing?

Maybe I'll take a break from reading the LCF for a while. It saddens me. Some of those folks need help.

[Newtons Bit]

Wow. That thread is ridiculous.

So much misinformation in one thread, is hard to believe.

What's with that "MirageMemories" guy? He basically makes things up, and states them as fact.

That's how the woo works.

[johnny karate]

Wow. That thread is ridiculous.

So much misinformation in one thread, is hard to believe.

What's with that "MirageMemories" guy? He basically makes things up, and states them as fact.

I'll be curious to see what he has to say when 2009 rolls around and none of his dire predictions have come true.

[kookbreaker]

Seems like the JREF forums were specifically set up (http://forum.911movement.org/index.php?showtopic=196)to counter the 'truth' movement. :jaw-dropp

My signup date laughs at the twoofers.

[WildCat]

My signup date laughs at the twoofers.
Ha! It proves you knew about the upcoming attacks!

[Travis]

ATTC takes it up a notch:
How could people be that dedicated to defending the OS of 9/11?

I hate throwing around the word shill because it makes me seem paranoid, but how could you be that devoted to BSing people???

And they are definitely qualified to be sock puppets because they def have a grasp on sophism and logical fallacies in general

Not to mention the Google hits that site has. How could such a random forum rank that high on Google hits???

I think you guys are on to something

Isn't that great, we're Sophists that know all about logical fallacies which apparently makes us qualified to be sock puppets.

[T.A.M.]

The reason they hate us over here at the JREF CT Subforum, is we are the only ones who repeatedly keep them in check.

The occasional article on their BS comes and goes, causes them to get upset for a while, but then fades away. Here however, EVERY TIME a new piece of paranoid BS pops up from them, the "JREFers" take it and expose it for the BS it is.

I don't blame them for hating us.

TAM:)

[Travis]

IT just keeps coming.

I think you can be devoted to such a cause when you are hired as a disinfo poster, getting other thinking contributors to be thrown off the track of a serious discussion [say about 9/11, for instance] and get said issue bogged down into mundane crap about minutae that does not matter. (See the Mike Malloy Message Board, for instance, for all the time-wasting back and forth that goes on there, and lately, a purge of 9/11 Official Story Doubters, and meanwhile allowing known disinfo trolls such as leftysarge and 9/11realtruth to continue to post their garbage.)

Then Quest chimes in:
James Randi is one of "them" as his sidekick MIchael Shermer, founder of Skeptics Magazine. WHile Randi is assuring the masses that 911 was NOT an inside job by telling us "the reason we don't see the wing debris at the Pentagon is that the wings folded up like an umbrella and went into the building with the plane", Shermer is telling the sheeple that JFK was not assasinated but "murdered" by Lee Harvey Oswald".

Make no mistake David, Randi and Shermer are an integral part of the 911 coverup.

Then finally some semblance of something vaguely resembling rationality:
I get the feeling over the years watching, and studying posters like mentioned at that site, and I can't help but think, they can't ALL be on a payroll.
Be fully conscious of what they are doing, and on a payroll.. it just doesn't make sense.
Most of these posters appear to truly BELIEVE what they're saying.

So, I wanna know right now who is and who is not on the Disinfo payroll? Those who say they aren't on it will be assumed to actually be on it because that's what someone who is paid for Disinfo would say.

[Walter Ego]

ATTC takes it up a notch:

Originally Posted by ATTC
How could people be that dedicated to defending the OS of 9/11?

I hate throwing around the word shill because it makes me seem paranoid, but how could you be that devoted to BSing people???

Couldn't that second question be asked of the truthers?

[Walter Ego]

So, I wanna know right now who is and who is not on the Disinfo payroll? Those who say they aren't on it will be assumed to actually be on it because that's what someone who is paid for Disinfo would say.

All I know is that I haven't gotten my check this month. :(

(And I want to speak to someone about the pay grades too. Who should I contact?)

[Travis]

Couldn't that second question be asked of the truthers?

Yes that question is indeed drowning in irony.

[cludgie]

The reason they hate us over here at the JREF CT Subforum, is we are the only ones who repeatedly keep them in check.

The occasional article on their BS comes and goes, causes them to get upset for a while, but then fades away. Here however, EVERY TIME a new piece of paranoid BS pops up from them, the "JREFers" take it and expose it for the BS it is.

I don't blame them for hating us.

TAM:)

...if it wasn't for you pesky kids....

*shakes fist*

[The Doc]

The truth movement thinks that everything is about them.

[Swing Dangler]

The truth movement thinks that everything is about them.
Uh, Doc, your not about us.

[T.A.M.]

I tell you why I am that dedicated.

Nobody deserves to be duped. No one deserves to be conned into buying the snake oil, and that is exactly what DRG, S.Jones, and the other leaders of the TM Cult are selling.

If the JREF CT subforum can help shed some light on the issue for the undecided or the confused on this matter, then mission accomplished.

TAM:)

[GreNME]

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/148221/1/#new

So funny. They think the Conspiracy Theory section is all there is to JREF.

Unfortunately, most of the Conspiracy Theory section is all about them. A majority of the threads in this section are either directly about their forum, directly about the makers of the film (mostly Dylan), or eventually devolve into discussions about their forum and various antics there. Some days I check here and wonder why it isn't just called the "Loose Change and 9/11" section.

Hate to say it, guys, but I tend to get the impression that there are a lot of people on both forums that feed off each other. I'd say there is at least some symbiotic relationship between this subforum and the LC forums.

[ref]

MirageMemories is truly priceless. I'm still not sure if his schtick is a huge put-on or if he really believes that paranoid tripe he slings.

He believes it.

[chillzero]

I can't blame them for thinking that this place is all about them, when there are so many threads started just to mock them. I look forward to the day you just ignore them all, as they deserve. If they were having any impact at all on the world, I'd say different, but it seems that no one else at all takes them seriously, and their sole reason to continue lately is to stir it up here.

Also - I would hope you aren't all just going to keep pasting in posts from another forum?

ETA: And, no attacks on members here that also post there, please.

[Walter Ego]

I look forward to the day you just ignore them all, as they deserve.


Spoilsport. :(

It's not like mommie and daddy is paying them any attention anymore.

[Drudgewire]

All I know is that I haven't gotten my check this month. :(
Check with your bank. Our records show it was direct deposited on the 11th.

[BenBurch]

... So, I wanna know right now who is and who is not on the Disinfo payroll? Those who say they aren't on it will be assumed to actually be on it because that's what someone who is paid for Disinfo would say.

I'm on the payroll. They pay me off in high-end hookers. ;)

[uk_dave]

Uh, Doc, your not about us.

Your what?

[uk_dave]

I'm on the payroll. They pay me off in high-end hookers. ;)

Do you stand on a box? :duck:

[Swing Dangler]

I can't blame them for thinking that this place is all about them, when there are so many threads started just to mock them. I look forward to the day you just ignore them all, as they deserve. If they were having any impact at all on the world, I'd say different, but it seems that no one else at all takes them seriously, and their sole reason to continue lately is to stir it up here.

Also - I would hope you aren't all just going to keep pasting in posts from another forum?

ETA: And, no attacks on members here that also post there, please.

Chill, you don't think sitting Parliament members from other countries taking up the torch isn't evidence of "having an impact"?

[uk_dave]

Chill, you don't think sitting Parliament members from other countries taking up the torch isn't evidence of "having an impact"?

So, you're naive about politics too.

Big surprise. Not.

[chillzero]

Chill, you don't think sitting Parliament members from other countries taking up the torch isn't evidence of "having an impact"?

There's a Member of Parliament who's a member on the Loose Change forum?

[Pardalis]

Regardless, I think 2008 is going to be a year of major developments.

Didn't Avery say that about last year?

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Swing Dangler
Chill, you don't think sitting Parliament members from other countries taking up the torch isn't evidence of "having an impact"?

There's a Member of Parliament who's a member on the Loose Change forum?

He’s talking about the European Parliament where a troofer film appropriately entitled ‘Zero’ was screened. Six (count ‘um 6) EP representatives out of 800 attended and no press showed up. The fiasco was the fault of …. You guessed it, the Evil American Empire.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=108492

That's the troofer version of 'having an impact.' In the real world it's called a 'dropping a dud.' :rolleyes:

[Unsecured Coins]

Didn't Avery say that about last year?


and 2006 too

[Drudgewire]

He’s talking about the European Parliament where a troofer film appropriately entitled ‘Zero’ was screened. Six (count ‘um 6) EP representatives out of 800 attended and no press showed up. The fiasco was the fault of …. You guessed it, the Evil American Empire.
So watching a movie is taking up the torch now? In that case, I'm taking up the torch for Penny Flame and Charlie Laine. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/pervert.gif

[uk_dave]

So watching a movie is taking up the torch now? In that case, I'm taking up the torch for Penny Flame and Charlie Laine. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/pervert.gif

I had to google those names.

:blush:

[Drudgewire]

I had to google those names.

:blush:
Hope you had safesearch on if you're at work. :D

[T.A.M.]

Hate to say it, guys, but I tend to get the impression that there are a lot of people on both forums that feed off each other. I'd say there is at least some symbiotic relationship between this subforum and the LC forums.

Yes but the difference is that this is a CT Debunking Subforum on a skeptics site...that is what this forum is for to discuss and/or debunk the CTs, of which the 9/11 truth is one.

There site, however, is suppose to be about uncovering the "inside job" and promoting it to the public at large, yet they spend a great deal of time trying to convince those they never will.

TAM:)

[GreNME]

Oh, so the difference is the people here focusing on that other forum are inherently better than the people over there who are focusing on this forum.

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Nim Chimpsky]

Just $.02 from a self-purported outsider to the debate.

I started visiting here in 2006 when the whole LC thing began gaining steam. I read to get info to counter morons who polluted other boards I posted in.

I didn't decide to join until about a year ago and have really enjoyed many other forums in addition to this one.

As a REAL skeptic, I refused to take a position when confronted with a truther's proof until I had the chance to research it myself. After doing so: watching LC, reading the blogs, reading DRG and a few others, understanding their position and claims.....then searching for counters to these claims....which pointed me here. After weighing the evidence, I can assuredly say with nearly 100% confidence that no truther's claim EVER held water.

My observation of the current state of this "debate" :confused: is that it has devolved into just a handful of truthers coming here and receiving the same smack-downs that their predecessors had years and months before. I admit, that I have probably read a very large % of the threads and have seen nothing new in months.

I do have a question for the few truthers that still come here:

WHY?

Why do you persist in posting to a message board?

Why do you think that the JREF boards will "help" your cause?

Why do you care what ANYBODY here thinks about you or your theories?

Why don't you take this groundbreaking evidence and research and DO SOMETHING with it?

What is accomplished by incessant argument?



To be fair, here's my answer in advance. I come here because I love debate. I love reading it and taking part in it, albeit a small participation. It's fascinating and fun. Now, if you guys come here for the same reasons, then by all means, keep going. If that's your motivation, then I can actually understand it.

BUT, if you really believe that our administration was complicit in the murders of more than 3000 of their own citizens, why waste time here? Why wouldn't you be spending your spare time writing your congressman, pestering the media, organizing support, donating time and money.

As far as I can see, the truth movement has accomplished nothing substantive. It did raise awareness, it did have its day in the sun, you had the attention of the media and the public at large for a fleeting moment....but WHAT DID YOU DO? You guys blew it. You should have been able to put forth a cogent theory with some evidence and data and calculations, instead you have this:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1814147221fd21b0b4.jpg

[VespaGuy]

You should have been able to put forth a cogent theory with some evidence and data and calculations, instead you have this:

That is gold! Where is that picture from? Until evidence is provided I refuse to believe that the original owner of that image was serious.

[Nim Chimpsky]

That is gold! Where is that picture from? Until evidence is provided I refuse to believe that the original owner of that image was serious.

I found the originating link here:

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/laughingtokeepfromcrying:thelightersideo


mentioned in this thread here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3092974#post3092974

that points here:

http://www.navigate3d.no/mbbs22/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=918&posts=45&start=1

can anybody translate this:

Jeg gjorde et forsøk med papp, en melkekartong, for å se hvor mye den bærer uten å falle sammen. Kartongen veier 30 g. Vekta som legges på er 10 kg, se bilde, 333 ganger pappkartongens vekt. Den bar dette uten tegn på å falle sammen.

Hvordan kunne World Trade Center bygning 7 falle sammen uten ekstra vektbelastning? Det er ganske enkelt ikke mulig. Den må ha blitt sprengt kontrollert med eksplosiver. Her er det snakk om high-tech. Kjernene i wtc 1, 2 og 7 ble smelta i løpet av sekunder og lå i ukesvis flytene som en smeltedigel i grunnen under byggrestene. Pussig at verden ser ut til å være lurt, til og med over fem år etter hendelsen.

Mitt råd til Larry Silverstein er å bruke papp i stedet for stål i sitt nye The Freedom Tower, for papp er beviselig minimum 333 ganger sterkere enn stål, tatt i betraking at tre wtc bygg laga av stål ramla sammen som korthus, og alle på samme dag

[Drudgewire]

You should have been able to put forth a cogent theory with some evidence and data and calculations, instead you have this:

:drinkspit:

Oh man, that's legendary. Right up there with the chicken wire demonstration.

[H'ethetheth]

can anybody translate this:Yes and no. I don't speak Nowegian (Dutch and German help though), but it seems to say roughly what it says on the picture, plus, I think, the ironic advice to Silverstein to make the new WTC buildings out of carboard, since it is apparently stronger than steel and won't make them colapse like a house of cards, within one day.

[Nim Chimpsky]

Yes and no. I don't speak Nowegian (Dutch and German help though), but it seems to say roughly what it says on the picture, plus, I think, the ironic advice to Silverstein to make the new WTC buildings out of carboard, since it is apparently stronger than steel and won't make them colapse like a house of cards, within one day.

Based on his science, ALL structures from here on out will look like this:

http://www.agilitynut.com/p/milkcarton.jpg

[Walter Ego]

Based on his science, ALL structures from here on out will look like this:

http://www.agilitynut.com/p/milkcarton.jpg

It there a real cow inside that box?

[1337m4n]

The Skeptic Forum of LC is where the real respectful discussion is taking place.

Can anyone explain to me what this is supposed to mean?

[GreNME]

It means that if it was said sarcistically, you are probably proving the sarcastic tone true.

[Dr Adequate]

Oh, so the difference is the people here focusing on that other forum are inherently better than the people over there who are focusing on this forum. Our job is to combat their woo. Their job is to combat the NWO.

[GreNME]

Ahh, so it's basically the same type of egotistical delusion, just a different target.

[gumboot]

Ahh, so it's basically the same type of egotistical delusion, just a different target.


Why are you posting here?

[Drudgewire]

Ahh, so it's basically the same type of egotistical delusion, just a different target.
Take the "delusion" part out and I'm pretty comfortable with that assessment. :cool:

Although the fact they choose to come to a skeptic and educational forum without evidence and then when skeptics do what they are supposed to do: look at all the evidence and see which is the most likely, which could be the case based on unbiased science without pre-conceived political agendas, and which is stupid...

And then getting all huffy about it when they're told "sorry, yours fits into category three?"

Well, that just strikes me as begging for it. :p

[Dr Adequate]

Ahh, so it's basically the same type of egotistical delusion, just a different target. I should love to see the thought processes by which you got from my statement to your conclusion. They must be positively baroque. Rococo, even.

[1337m4n]

It means that if it was said sarcistically, you are probably proving the sarcastic tone true.

:confused:

[ChrilleT]

can anybody translate this:
I´m from sweden but can understand the language of our neighbours pretty good so here is a pretty good translation.

"I Did a try with paper, a milkbox, to se how much it can carry without falling apart. The paperbox weight 30 grams (g). The weights put on is 10 kilograms, see the pictures, 333 times the paperboxes weight. It carried this without signs of falling apart.

How could wtc building 7 fall apart without extra weightloads? It´s pretty simple not possible. It must have been blown with controlled explosions. Here it is talk about high-tech. The cores in wtc 1,2 and 7 was melt in the span of seconds and was laying weeks floating like a melted pool under the buildings. Strange that the world seems to be fooled, even 5 years after the event.

My advice to Larry Silverstein is to use paper instead of steel in the new freedom tower, for paper is evidently being minimum 333 times stronger than steel, taken consideration that 3 wtc buildings made by steel was falling like cardhouses, and all on the same day.

[Horatius]

"I Did a try with paper, a milkbox, to se how much it can carry without falling apart. The paperbox weight 30 grams (g). The weights put on is 10 kilograms, see the pictures, 333 times the paperboxes weight. It carried this without signs of falling apart.

How could wtc building 7 fall apart without extra weightloads? It´s pretty simple not possible. ...

My advice to Larry Silverstein is to use paper instead of steel in the new freedom tower, for paper is evidently being minimum 333 times stronger than steel, taken consideration that 3 wtc buildings made by steel was falling like cardhouses, and all on the same day.



Someone should send him the pictures of my garage (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3545905#post3545905), and ask him what he thinks weighs more: The garage, or the snow that crushed it?

[AZCat]

Someone should send him the pictures of my garage (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3545905#post3545905), and ask him what he thinks weighs more: The garage, or the snow that crushed it?

But snow is like wool! Everybody knows that a wall can't fall down because it's supported by itself, and the wool does nothing - if a sheep can hold it up, why can't your roof?</snide mockery>

[tsig]

Ahh, so it's basically the same type of egotistical delusion, just a different target.

Except for teh Kitty.

[CHF]

Chill, you don't think sitting Parliament members from other countries taking up the torch isn't evidence of "having an impact"?

Not when the rest of Europe pays no attention. Not when the event draws flies, prompting the organizer to blame America for the crappy attendance.

That's called a "fiasco," not an "impact."

[Travis]

Not when the rest of Europe pays no attention. Not when the event draws flies, prompting the organizer to blame America for the crappy attendance.

That's called a "fiasco," not an "impact."

but...but they proudly showed the video of the "fiasco" themselves. Surely they wouldn't undermine their own movement by showcasing their failures.

Oh wait, they do.:D

[GreNME]

Ahh, so it's basically the same type of egotistical delusion, just a different target.
Except for teh Kitty.

If you mean NWO Kitty, then absolutely.

I know better than to cross teh Kitty. :)

[GreNME]

Take the "delusion" part out and I'm pretty comfortable with that assessment. :cool:

Although the fact they choose to come to a skeptic and educational forum without evidence and then when skeptics do what they are supposed to do: look at all the evidence and see which is the most likely, which could be the case based on unbiased science without pre-conceived political agendas, and which is stupid...

And then getting all huffy about it when they're told "sorry, yours fits into category three?"

Well, that just strikes me as begging for it. :p

Oh, don't get me wrong: I totally agree about the lack of application of critical thinking and logical processes to the overwhelming majority of conspiracy theories (and the political or social biases for much of the rest). That wasn't the focus of what I'm talking about.

This seemed to be a discussion about the LC forum-goers as relative to this particular subforum on the JREF, and to be perfectly honest I do see a whole lot of feeding off each other from this end. There are at least one or two threads specifically about the LC forums a week here, whether it's about the latest antics of a JREF poster who was banned, or who saw some ridiculous discussion over there, or if it's just a thread about how stupid the forum there is in general. If it's not new threads on the LC Forums, they'll surely come up in discussions topical to 9/11 at some point (almost faithfully). From the impression I get solely from looking at referenced links from posts here, it seems the LC Forums have a similar obsessive approach to this JREF subforum. Whether it's something sparking over here or over there, the end result seems to be each forum (or subforum, whatever you want to call it) focusing on the other and often ridiculing what the other says over in their respective forums.

That wouldn't seem overly obsessive-- antagonistic, yes, but not obsessive-- except that there are members from each who cross-post at both forums, feeding the relationship. You seem genuinely surprised that some LC truthers are determined to come here and argue stuff, though some members here feel perfectly entitled to do the same? The logic or faults of the arguments on either "side" nonwithstanding-- as I said, I'm not commenting on the efficacy or accuracy of either side of CT arguments, I'm commenting on the two forums named in the subject-- it seems pretty apparent that the CT subforum here on the JREF and the LC Forums do feed off each other, and that dismissing such an impression because the overall conspiracy theory of the LC Forum is faulty logic or baseless doesn't work as an effective defense in my opinion.

I'm not disagreeing that they're wrong about 9/11 and various other CTs, I'm saying that the general impression that their forum and this subforum do seem to have a pretty two-way dependent relationship, and that relationship is only made more stark by the number of JREF-ers who have admitted to having posted over there. So, in essence, if we remove "delusional" from my statement, then it does indeed seem to reason that this subforum is, to a very large degree, about them and their forum. So the premise being dismissed in the OP-- that the JREF is "all about" the LC Forums-- is only incorrect in the matter of degree because the CT subforum is definitely about them to a greater extent.

I should love to see the thought processes by which you got from my statement to your conclusion. They must be positively baroque. Rococo, even.

I love these kinds of responses. It's almost as if, because I may have quoted all or part of one of your posts, that the sum total of my opinion in response is based entirely on the text being quoted and not within the larger context of the whole conversation, from which the text being quoted merely acts as a stimulus or a jumping off point toward the overall, contextualized, often-nuanced conclusion within my reply. It's like trying to have a meaningful conversation with a lawyer who's stuck in case mode.

[Drudgewire]

That wouldn't seem overly obsessive-- antagonistic, yes, but not obsessive-- except that there are members from each who cross-post at both forums, feeding the relationship. You seem genuinely surprised that some LC truthers are determined to come here and argue stuff, though some members here feel perfectly entitled to do the same?
I totally agree with you here. I can't begin to grasp the logic of going to the LC forums for any reason other than to scan for Stundie material.

[GreNME]

But can you see how even that task can be construed as feeding a cross-forum purpose? I'm basically saying that the claims of a symbiotic relationship have some merit, though the level of degrees or the motivations behind them may be different.

[ImaginalDisc]

Yes, it does.

I do wonder, though, if the Loose Change folk actually know what 'JREF' stands for? Doesn't it occur to them to question why an aged ex-magician-turned-paranormal-debunker would create what they think is a 9/11 CT board?

They probably think he's Jewish.

[TheDaver]

I have to admit, I agree with GreNME. I'm surprised that this section of the JREF forum focuses almost exclusively on 9/11.

There are plenty of other CTs ripe for debunking, or at the very least baiting their believers into making themselves spectacles of stupidity over. I wish I could see more of them here. That, and it's not very much fun trying to participate on a CT forum when I get called a "disinfo agent" and get banned every ten posts or so.

[uk_dave]

I have to admit, I agree with GreNME. I'm surprised that this section of the JREF forum focuses almost exclusively on 9/11.


For the most part it's the 'truthers' who come here who focus on four main, interconnected forms of CT woo:


9-11 inside job
Apollo hoax
Income tax
The jews responsible for everything bad that's ever happened anywhere in the world, including 9-11, the fake Apollo landing and income tax I believe we have had quite a nice showing of other conspiracy theories posted by regulars to this forum, but the number available for 'debunking' is so small that in many cases we have to make them up ourselves just to keep the juices flowing...so to speak.