Success for the Truth Movement

[VespaGuy]

There has been a lot of talk recently about the impending death of the Truth Movement. It's been 6+ years, and there still isn't a new investigation. Loose Change forums are a ghost town. Home screenings of LC are being canceled due to lack of interest.

Of course, the truthers continue to believe that the movement is alive and kicking (and quite possibly even growing!).

So, lets put things in a bit of perspective; How can we know if the 9/11 truth movement is a success or a failure if we haven't clearly defined what their goal is?

So, to the conspiracy theorists that post here regularly, I have 3 questions:


What is your personal goal in regards to 9/11?
What would you personally consider "success" for the Truth Movement?
What would you personally consider "failure" for the Truth Movement?

[hellaeon]

I think success for the members of the truth movement would be losing their virginity.

[Sparky]

As far as success goes, anything that gets the existing rascals out of office and their own rascals in.

[VespaGuy]

As far as success goes, anything that gets the existing rascals out of office and their own rascals in.

That is a perfect example of what I'm looking for. If you were a truther and said (last year), "Our movement's goal is to get Ron Paul in the White House", we could all agree that your movement failed at that task.

As an example, lets take a look at AE911 truth. Their goal is "a truly independent investigation". So far, nothing. How many years must pass without "a truly independent investigation" before this can be chalked up to a failure?

So are any 9/11 conspiracy theorists out there willing to tell us what their goals are regarding 9/11? What do you consider success? What do you consider failure?

Lets make this real simple. Just fill in the blank:

I will consider the Truth Movement a success if 20 years from now _____________ .

My prediction: Truthers will not commit to any specific goal regarding 9/11, that way they cannot fail. (Much like how truthers won't commit to a specific "theory", that way they can't be debunked).

How 'bout it? Any truthers want to tell us what their personal goal is? Or what the goal of any of these movements are?

[thatsmystory]

There has been a lot of talk recently about the impending death of the Truth Movement. It's been 6+ years, and there still isn't a new investigation. Loose Change forums are a ghost town. Home screenings of LC are being canceled due to lack of interest.

Of course, the truthers continue to believe that the movement is alive and kicking (and quite possibly even growing!).

So, lets put things in a bit of perspective; How can we know if the 9/11 truth movement is a success or a failure if we haven't clearly defined what their goal is?

So, to the conspiracy theorists that post here regularly, I have 3 questions:


What is your personal goal in regards to 9/11?
What would you personally consider "success" for the Truth Movement?
What would you personally consider "failure" for the Truth Movement?

What is you hope? That people will stop questioning the government's account of the 9/11 attacks? IMO, cheerleading for government officials isn't patriotic.

[PhantomWolf]

What is you hope? That people will stop questioning the government's account of the 9/11 attacks? IMO, cheerleading for government officials isn't patriotic.

Here's a question. I'm not an American, I vote for the Left over here (Labour, not the Greens) and I think Bush is the largest waste of space on the planet. However, I still think that 9/11 happened as the FBI, NTSB, NYPD, FDNY, NIST, and FEMA investigations showed it to have done.

Where does that put me in your delusions?

[Drudgewire]

What is you hope? That people will stop questioning the government's account of the 9/11 attacks? IMO, cheerleading for government officials isn't patriotic.
IYO, it begins and ends with "government officials," rather than the bazillion tons of supporting evidence you guys choose to ignore or twist into the crap your aptly-labelled "movement" passes off as a viable alternative.

[thatsmystory]

Here's a question. I'm not an American, I vote for the Left over here (Labour, not the Greens) and I think Bush is the largest waste of space on the planet. However, I still think that 9/11 happened as the FBI, NTSB, NYPD, FDNY, NIST, and FEMA investigations showed it to have done.

Where does that put me in your delusions?
I don't have a problem with your view.

I do wonder why some debunkers seem to get so offended by people who dare question the government's findings.

[VespaGuy]

What is you hope?

My hope, in regards to this thread, is that someone who honestly believes that 9/11 was an inside job will be courageous enough to tell us what constitutes success for the Truth Movement.

So far, it's nothing but crickets.

That people will stop questioning the government's account of the 9/11 attacks? IMO, cheerleading for government officials isn't patriotic

Care to participate in this thread, thatsmystory? I'm assuming you do question the government's account of the 9/11 attacks. Care to answer the OP?

[MG1962]

Here's a question. I'm not an American, I vote for the Left over here (Labour, not the Greens) and I think Bush is the largest waste of space on the planet. However, I still think that 9/11 happened as the FBI, NTSB, NYPD, FDNY, NIST, and FEMA investigations showed it to have done.

Where does that put me in your delusions?

Well I share you profile, including an intense dislike for GW Bush - so I would love to hear the answer as well

[VespaGuy]

I don't have a problem with your view.

I do wonder why some debunkers seem to get so offended by people who dare question the government's findings.

If you think thats why debunkers "get so offended", you are mistaken. See above. Phantomwolf said it best.

ETA: I am a US citizen, with a strong dislike of the current administration.

[beachnut]

What is you hope? That people will stop questioning the government's account of the 9/11 attacks? IMO, cheerleading for government officials isn't patriotic.
IMO, making up lies and false information like 9/11 truth does is just a simple display of ignorance. Got evidence;? not 9/11 truth.
…
I do wonder why some debunkers seem to get so offended by people who dare question the government's findings.
Just leave out the government’s findings and learn this; the false information and lies spread by 9/11 truth is the problem; not some government story.

The truth of 9/11 truth, false conclusions based on zero facts; they made up the doubts due to ignorance of all things associated with the events of 9/11. How can they mess it all up?

[timhau]

I do wonder why some debunkers seem to get so offended by people who dare question the government's findings.

I don't have a problem with people who question the(ir) government. I do have a problem with people who question reality.

[thatsmystory]

IMO, success would be an independent investigation. Also declassification of documents (for example the redacted pages of the Joint Inquiry and the CIA IG report including the responses by officials named in the report).

Are you saying failure of the '9/11 truth movement' to achieve these goals is good for America?

[timhau]

Here's a question. I'm not an American, I vote for the Left over here (Labour, not the Greens) and I think Bush is the largest waste of space on the planet. However, I still think that 9/11 happened as the FBI, NTSB, NYPD, FDNY, NIST, and FEMA investigations showed it to have done.

Where does that put me in your delusions?

I think that makes you a dupe among shills.

[thatsmystory]

I don't have a problem with people who question the(ir) government. I do have a problem with people who question reality.
Questioning the 9/11 Commission report=questioning reality? Is that what you mean?

[beachnut]

Questioning the 9/11 Commission report=questioning reality? Is that what you mean?
Do you have the massive amounts of evidence 9/11 truth has been making up stories about? I have not seen one rational idea from 9/11 truth. 6 years and not a single correct conclusion. Why?

[VespaGuy]

IMO, success would be an independent investigation. Also declassification of documents (for example the redacted pages of the Joint Inquiry and the CIA IG report including the responses by officials named in the report).

Thank you for your honesty.

Are you saying failure of the '9/11 truth movement' to achieve these goals is good for America?

No. The failure of the 9/11 Truth Movement to acheive these goals demonstrates the failure of the 9/11 Truth Movement.
ETA: just so we are clear, the Truth Movement has absolutely nothing to do with the welfare of America. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada. I hope that's clear.

[CHF]

I don't have a problem with your view.

I do wonder why some debunkers seem to get so offended by people who dare question the government's findings.

So in your opinion anyone who corroborates the "official story" works for the US government?


IMO, success would be an independent investigation.

Tell me about this "independent investigation." Who funds it? Who testifies? Who passes final judgement?

[dudalb]

I don't have a problem with people who question the(ir) government. I do have a problem with people who question reality.

I applaud wildly.

[VespaGuy]

So that's it?! Only 1 person is willing to share their personal goals or the goals of the Truth Movement?

This silence speaks volumes about the remaining truthers on the board.

[Sizzler]

So, to the conspiracy theorists that post here regularly, I have 3 questions:

What is your personal goal in regards to 9/11?
What would you personally consider "success" for the Truth Movement?
What would you personally consider "failure" for the Truth Movement?

Write a thesis demonstrating why I think a new investigation is needed.
A new investigation. One fact that makes JREFers poop their pants.
There is no failure really unless the NWO really does exist:jaw-dropp

[westprog]

ETA: just so we are clear, the Truth Movement has absolutely nothing to do with the welfare of America. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada. I hope that's clear.

I disagree. I think that if the truth movement managed to gain substantial support, that would have a lot to do with the welfare of America, and possibly the world.

However, at their current level of support, they are irrelevant to anybody's welfare.

[VespaGuy]

Write a thesis demonstrating why I think a new investigation is needed. A new investigation. One fact that makes JREFers poop their pants. There is no failure really unless the NWO really does exist:jaw-dropp

As I predicted, you refuse to post any actual goals, I imagine it's so others can't label you or the Truth Movement as failures. I understand.

That's why I started this thread. So far, I've gotten what I expectd.

[funk de fino]

Write a thesis demonstrating why I think a new investigation is needed.
A new investigation. One fact that makes JREFers poop their pants.There is no failure really unless the NWO really does exist:jaw-dropp

That is incorrect. A lot of people here would love to see another investigation, as it would be priceless when the truthers were whining when it did not prove inside job and was in no way meaningfully different than the original investigations. I think most people just would not want to have to pay for something that is a waste of time.

I dont care, crack on with it and charge the american taxpayer (I do not live there;))

I think in 6 months time, if you hang around here and post your thesis for criticism, you will very likely have come to the realisation that you are fed up arguing about semantics and nit picking and that there is nothing substantial in any of the truthers claims and you will quietly retire from the JAQ gang. You do not come across as having the same insanity and dishonesty as the few remaining truthers here who will never give up and will continue on even though they know themselves they are lying and have ended up just jerking off to pull peoples chains. Not a very nice thing to do when it concerns the deaths of so many IMO.

[VespaGuy]

I disagree. I think that if the truth movement managed to gain substantial support, that would have a lot to do with the welfare of America, and possibly the world.

However, at their current level of support, they are irrelevant to anybody's welfare.

That's actually what I meant, but thanks for expanding on it.

There actually is a small impact which I failed to mention, and that's with the education of the younger generations. It's a shame that years from now, a student who wants to find info on 9/11 will be bombarded with nonsense from space-beams to no-planes. Although it can be an experience in critical thinking, the garbage strewn about the internet by truthers is not necessarily harmless.

[Newtons Bit]

Write a thesis demonstrating why I think a new investigation is needed.
A new investigation. One fact that makes JREFers poop their pants.
There is no failure really unless the NWO really does exist:jaw-dropp

Hey, I don't have a problem with a new investigation so long as the truthers pay for it.

Money for research in engineering and infastructure is incredibly hard to find and I would perfer that the limited quantity of resources dedicated to this field go to something useful.

[dudalb]

Any new investigation would be denounced by the Truthers when it fails to prove..or even disproves...that 9/11 was an inside job.

[VespaGuy]

Any new investigation would be denounced by the Truthers when it fails to prove..or even disproves...that 9/11 was an inside job.

Whether they accept the findings or not isn't the point though. I just want to know if getting an independant investigation is their actual goal. That's all. Dozens of them gather on street corners yelling and chanting. Others make movies on their laptops. Still others post in forums. But what is it all for? What are their goals?

When I see people with Ron Paul posters on the street corner, their goal is to get Ron Paul elected. If we have a President Paul at the end of the year, then they succeeded.

When I see people picketing to bring the troops home, they have a specific goal: To bring the troops home.

But what is the goal of the truthers? Is it for a new investigation? Is it to get Ron Paul in office? Is it to impeach Bush? Is it to make as much money as possible by selling BBQ aprons or rehashes of a movie that was available for free?

Why won't truthers comment? I think the answer is two-fold. First, if they don't have an actual goal, then they can never fail. Secondly, with no goal, they can continue tilting at the "inside job" windmill forever!

[LastChild]

There has been a lot of talk recently about the impending death of the Truth Movement. It's been 6+ years, and there still isn't a new investigation. Loose Change forums are a ghost town. Home screenings of LC are being canceled due to lack of interest.

Of course, the truthers continue to believe that the movement is alive and kicking (and quite possibly even growing!).

So, lets put things in a bit of perspective; How can we know if the 9/11 truth movement is a success or a failure if we haven't clearly defined what their goal is?

So, to the conspiracy theorists that post here regularly, I have 3 questions:


What is your personal goal in regards to 9/11?
What would you personally consider "success" for the Truth Movement?
What would you personally consider "failure" for the Truth Movement?



To annoy you. Personally.
I'm there.
To not be able to annoy you. Personally.

[defaultdotxbe]

There is no failure really unless the NWO really does exist:jaw-dropp
did anyone else read this as "i cant fail because i dont really believe all the crap i say in the first place"


To annoy you. Personally.
I'm there.
To not be able to annoy you. Personally.
truly noble and lofty goals, you are a credit to the truth

[Tweeter]

We already have success. Getting just one more person to wake up is the main objective. Millions questioning, opposed to a handful of debunkers. Success is in the awakening.

Who changed my avatar?

[VespaGuy]

To annoy you. Personally.
I'm there.
To not be able to annoy you. Personally.


Again, another non-answer. If you could see my face you'd see an utter lack of surprise.

As for annoying me "personally", consider your goal a failure. However, had you used the word "sadden", I would have agreed.

[beachnut]

We already have success. Getting just one more person to wake up is the main objective. Millions questioning, opposed to a handful of debunkers. Success is in the awakening.

Who changed my avatar?
Your avatars are indicative of your knowledge on 9/11.

Each person who falls for 9/11 truth is like falling into a hole of ignorance. You idea of moving forward is a step back to the dark ages.

[VespaGuy]

We already have success. Getting just one more person to wake up is the main objective.

Then what? How is that a goal? That makes the movement larger (in theory), but what is the movement's goal? "My goal is to wake people up... so that they can wake people up... so that they can wake people up." Sounds like Multi-level marketing. (And appears to be about as successful)

What good is it to wake everyone up if there is no goal. What follows? WHAT IS THE MOVEMENT'S GOAL!!

Millions questioning,

And yet home screenings of LC:FC are canceled due to lack of interest. You severely overestimate your numbers.

opposed to a handful of debunkers.

There are more "psychics" than "psychic debunkers", too. That doesn't make "psychics" legit. Many people realize that "psychics" are phony and don't feel they need debunking. The same is true with 9/11 conspiracies.

Success is in the awakening.

For a successful movement, it sure isn't doing much.

Who changed my avatar?

If I had to guess, I'd say it's because it was fairly tasteless. I'm all for free speech, but is there any particular reason you chose, Seung-Hui Cho, a disturbed young man who committed mass murder as an avatar?

[CHF]

We already have success. Getting just one more person to wake up is the main objective. Millions questioning, opposed to a handful of debunkers. Success is in the awakening.

Getting people to "question." That's it?

No revolution? No destruction of the NWO?

All you want is for people to join your JAQ-off club?

[gc051360]

If I had to guess, I'd say it's because it was fairly tasteless. I'm all for free speech, but is there any particular reason you chose, Seung-Hui Cho, a disturbed young man who committed mass murder as an avatar?
Didn't Alex Jones claim the VT shooting was a conspiracy to try and infringe on the 2nd amendment, or something like that?

Also. About success for the truth movement. The success is to keep the story going. As long as they have a story to tell, they can pretend to be internet rebels. They can be the anti-establishment, radical free thinkers, shaking the foundation of society. They can do it all from the comfort of their own home. The only thing they need, is to delude themselves into buying into their own nonsense.

eta: Also, they can't set a goal. Because when one sets goals, they can fail to achieve them. Failing to reach goals, may lead to self analysis, or something of that sort. But, that would mean getting more in touch with reality, which wrecks their fantasy.

[Walter Ego]

Quote:
Who changed my avatar?

If I had to guess, I'd say it's because it was fairly tasteless. I'm all for free speech, but is there any particular reason you chose, Seung-Hui Cho, a disturbed young man who committed mass murder as an avatar?


That Jharrow person had Mohammed Atta as an avatar then changed it to Charles Manson. Who's next, Pol Pot and Idie Amin? Is there an affinity among truthers for mass murders?

Real classy these truthers.

[VespaGuy]

Didn't Alex Jones claim the VT shooting was a conspiracy to try and infringe on the 2nd amendment, or something like that?

I'll try not to play the 'appeal to emotion' card, but I attended the funeral of one of the VT students (he was a friend of my girlfriend's). There are no words to describe blowhards like Jones who like to make a mockery of events like this.
As I said, I support free speech, so I, for one, would not ask him to remove his avatar (I will however support any action taken by admins). As a matter of fact, I think Tweeter should enlarge the avatar, silk-screen it on a t-shirt, and visit Virginia Tech himself - let them know the "truth", if that is what he believes.

eta: Also, they can't set a goal. Because when one sets goals, they can fail to achieve them. Failing to reach goals, may lead to self analysis, or something of that sort. But, that would mean getting more in touch with reality, which wrecks their fantasy.

My thoughts exactly, and the main reason I started this thread. So far, we've only gotten one truther to give us a solid goal (thatsmystory: new investigation). Kudos to him. The rest resort to jokes or intangibles, for fear of failure (and, i beleive, because they know they are on a sinking ship.)

[defaultdotxbe]

We already have success. Getting just one more person to wake up is the main objective.
so its not about finding the truth, or bringing the real criminals to justice, its just about getting people to agree with you?

[LashL]

Who changed my avatar?


You or one of your sockpuppets, obviously. Are you having trouble keeping track?

[jaydeehess]

We already have success. Getting just one more person to wake up is the main objective. Millions questioning, opposed to a handful of debunkers. Success is in the awakening.




As pointed out above, all that says is that you consider "success" to be the equivalent of spinning your wheels in loose sand. A lot of noise and effort that some people believe means you are doing something but which still gets you no where.


For the record I also do not live in the USA, cannot stand GWB and have stated many times that I believe that he and his administration will go down in history as the worst the US has ever had. I also have no problem with people questioning anything.

I have a problem with people who continue to ask the same questions over and over even when those questions have been answered. I have a problem with people who put forth dozens of sometimes mutually exclusive contentions that require an amazingly complex, complicated and wholly unneccessary giant conspiracy to both effect the damage done on 9/11/01 and to fake the obviously simple plan of mutiple suicide hijackings.