Truthers: What do you want from us?

[1337m4n]

We show you plane parts. You claim they are planted.

We show you documents. You claim they are forged.

We show you videos. You claim they are faked.

We show you witness testimonies. You claim they are lies.

We show you research papers. You claim they are deceptive.

We show you al-Quaeda's confessions. You claim they are hoaxes.

We show you expert opinions. You claim they are shills.

What is it that you want from us?

What will it take to convince you?

[DGM]

What do they want?

Attention mostly.

[Oxigen]

Irrefutible evidence.

[Sparky]

Irrefutible evidence.

What evidence, other than that already provided, would you consider "irrefutible"?

Do you require OBL to personally come to your door and say, "I did it. I'm guilty!"

[Drudgewire]

What evidence, other than that already provided, would you consider "irrefutible"?

Do you require OBL to personally come to your door and say, "I did it. I'm guilty!"
You mean that Canadian actor on our payroll? C'mon, they're smarter than that. :rolleyes:

[Pardalis]

Irrefutible evidence.

Why us? Why would we, ordinary people on an internet message board, have that?

Shouldn't you be looking for it, you know, out there in real life?

[TC329]

What evidence, other than that already provided, would you consider "irrefutible"?

Do you require OBL to personally come to your door and say, "I did it. I'm guilty!"

plane part with serial numbers?

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?

video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?

NIST report about WTC7?

[Pardalis]

plane part with serial numbers?

The planes were disintegrated, what you are asking is almost impossible, especially for any of us here.

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?

You've already managed to deny the FDR from the Pentagon, I don't think the black boxes will make any difference for you.

video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?

What if it's true that the only one that showed the impact is the one we saw?

NIST report about WTC7?

It's coming, but since you don't trust the other report on the towers, what good will it do?

Besides you won't even read it.

[DGM]

plane part with serial numbers?

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?

video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?

NIST report about WTC7?
Why do you care about a NIST report? When it comes out and doesn't include CD is this whole "truth" movement over?

[PhantomWolf]

plane part with serial numbers?

Why is the Airlines confirmation of the crash positions and parts not enough. ARE THE AIRLINES IN ON IT? ARE THEY LYING?

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?

And if those that made the claims are mistaken and no such boxes were found?

video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?

And if the FBI is correct and none of the videos show the flightpath? (After all security cameras aren't pointing up at the sky.)

NIST report about WTC7?

And when it says that Fire did it not explosives?

[Unsecured Coins]

plane part with serial numbers?
I personally don't have access to those, but are you talking for all flights, or just one or two?

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?
I've never heard this claim outside of one other truther. It has never been substantiated.

video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?
so you can ridicule the resolution and claim it still shows a missile?


NIST report about WTC7?
Pending

[TC329]

The planes were disintegrated, what you are asking is almost impossible, especially for any of us here.

I've seen pics of a fuselage on the roof of WTC5. Don't lie and say no plane parts were recovered from the WTC. Are you making that claim because I know a "fringe" group of the truth movement that would love to hear a debunker claim that.



You've already managed to deny the FDR from the Pentagon, I don't think the black boxes will make any difference for you.

There are many reasons to deny the anomalous AA77 FDR, example unlike UA93 the AA77 FDR stops way too early.



What if it's true that the only one that showed the impact is the one we saw?

I didn't say impact, now did I?

Are you claiming that camera's all over the area by the Pentagon all missed capturing a 155' long 757 on film?


It's coming, but since you don't trust the other report on the towers, what good will it do?

It's not coming. Ever. It's been 7 years and NIST still can't explain the collapse or recreate it on a computer without bombs. That's the reality you need to face.

Besides you won't even read it.

Yawn.

[TC329]

Why is the Airlines confirmation of the crash positions and parts not enough. ARE THE AIRLINES IN ON IT? ARE THEY LYING?

I don't know, I don't have access to all the evidence to make an informed decision. Too bad I'm not naive and trusting of multi-billion dollar corporations and the CEO's that run them like you are.



And if those that made the claims are mistaken and no such boxes were found?

I believe the FDNY.



And if the FBI is correct and none of the videos show the flightpath? (After all security cameras aren't pointing up at the sky.)

The FBI says none of them capture the impact. You do know there was a camera on the roof directly above the impact spot pointing straight out towards the Citgo station, right?



And when it says that Fire did it not explosives?

Wow, why hasn't NIST hired you yet?

[Unsecured Coins]

Are you claiming that camera's all over the area by the Pentagon all missed capturing a 155' long 757 on film?

when the frame resolution is slower than the object on film, how would you be able to make it out anyway?

[Pardalis]

I've seen pics of a fuselage on the roof of WTC5. Don't lie and say no plane parts were recovered from the WTC. Are you making that claim because I know a "fringe" group of the truth movement that would love to hear a debunker claim that.

Well, I can't produce to you the serial numbers, but surely you can find them for yourself.

Just ask the right authorities.

Are you claiming that camera's all over the area by the Pentagon all missed capturing a 155' long 757 on film?
How the heck would I know?

It's not coming. Ever. It's been 7 years and NIST still can't explain the collapse or recreate it on a computer without bombs. That's the reality you need to face.
Bookmarked.

[Firestone]

I believe the FDNY.Please tell us when the FDNY claimed that the black boxes of flights 11 and 175 were recovered.

Pardalis was faster with the bookmark on the NIST-WTC7-report that will NEVER appear. :(

[TC329]

Please tell us when the FDNY claimed that the black boxes of flights 11 and 175 were recovered.

Pardalis was faster with the bookmark on the NIST-WTC7-report that will NEVER appear. :(

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410B.html


Two men who worked extensively in the wreckage of the World Trade Center claim they helped federal agents find three of the four “black boxes” from the jetliners that struck the towers on 9/11 - contradicting the official account.

Both the independent 9/11 Commission and federal authorities continue to insist that none of the four devices - a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (FDR) from the two planes - were ever found in the wreckage.

But New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi has written in a recent book (http://www.tracteam.org/) -- self-published by several Ground Zero workers -- that he escorted federal agents on an all-terrain vehicle in October 2001 and helped them locate three of the four...

His account is supported by a volunteer, Mike Bellone (http://www.tracteam.org/) , whose efforts at Ground Zero have been chronicled in the New York Times and elsewhere. Bellone said assisted DeMasi and the agents and that saw a device that resembling a “black box” in the back of the firefighter’s ATV.

[TC329]

I personally don't have access to those, but are you talking for all flights, or just one or two?

All 4.


I've never heard this claim outside of one other truther. It has never been substantiated.

yes 2 9/11 heros corroborate each other, they are FDNY.


so you can ridicule the resolution and claim it still shows a missile?

it's 2008 the only people who believe a missile hit the pentagon are Terral.


Pending

in 2010 you can tell me how it's still pending...........

[Nick Terry]

http://wtc.nist.gov/media/NCSTAC_December18(Sunder).pdf

So... that makes it four to five months left for the Twoof.:D

[lapman]

plane part with serial numbers?
The picture of a part with the serial number has already been posted.

If you doubt this, please post a list of all the serialized parts on the aircraft. Include both Boeing and OEM part numbers and the date of installation.

[Pardalis]

it's 2008

First correct thing you've ever said.

[Unsecured Coins]

All 4.
Fair enough. If you can show where the sounds of the detonations going off that felled WTC in the CD ran off to, I'll do my best to get your serial numbers


yes 2 9/11 heros corroborate each other, they are FDNY.
And their accounts are where again?


it's 2008 the only people who believe a missile hit the pentagon are Terral.

You must be a Skywarrior groupie then


in 2010 you can tell me how it's still pending...........
WOW. DO YOU WORK FOR SYLVIA BROWNE?

[16.5]

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?

Oh boy, I seem to recall that the Truther on this site that brought it up conceded that it was not true.

It was in the Thread where Truthers were invited to post errors in Gravy's writings.

I guess I'll have to go digging for it.

[PhantomWolf]

I don't know, I don't have access to all the evidence to make an informed decision. Too bad I'm not naive and trusting of multi-billion dollar corporations and the CEO's that run them like you are.

At about 9:15am on the 11th of September, 2001, United Airlines confirmed that one of their aircraft, Flight 175, had crashed into WTC 2. They had been tracking the plane since take off using their onboard systems so they knew if this was true or not. WERE THEY LYING?

At about 9:30am on the 11th of September, 2001, American Airlines confirmed that one of their aircraft, Flight 11, had crashed into WTC 1. They had been tracking the plane since take off using their onboard systems so they knew if this was true or not. WERE THEY LYING?

At about 10:15am on the 11th of September, 2001, United Airlines confirmed that one of their aircraft, Flight 93, had crashed near Shanksville. They had been tracking the plane since take off using their onboard systems so they knew if this was true or not. WERE THEY LYING?

At about 10:30am on the 11th of September, 2001, American Airlines confirmed that one of their aircraft, Flight 77, had crashed into the Pentagon. They had been tracking the plane since take off using their onboard systems so they knew if this was true or not. WERE THEY LYING?

These four crashs nearly drove one of these "multi-billion dollar corporations" into bankruptcy requiring a last minute deal with workers to save it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2905035.stm) the other "multi-billion dollar corporation" went backrupt for over 3 years! (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2006-02-01-united-timeline_x.htm)

WERE THESE AIRLINES IN ON IT AND LYING?

I believe the FDNY.

So then I guess when they say that WTC7 was fully involved and in imminent danger of collapse you believe them then too? Right? Right? I mean if they got it right about the black boxes, they must be right about WTC7 too, or are they lying?

The FBI says none of them capture the impact.

No, they said one did, that one has been released.

You do know there was a camera on the roof directly above the impact spot pointing straight out towards the Citgo station, right?

Proof? Proof that it was recording the images, not just a live camera, and proof that it would have captured the plane anyway?

Wow, why hasn't NIST hired you yet?

Nice dodge. The question was what will you say when the report says it was fire alone. Will you accept it or not? If not why would you want it now?

[DGM]

So all we need is the FDNY (or a member) to write a book about this and it's all over. Hey what was the name of that book by the FDNY chief about why WTC 7 collapsed?

You'll except that right TC?

[Firestone]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410B.html


Two men who worked extensively in the wreckage of the World Trade Center claim they helped federal agents find three of the four “black boxes” from the jetliners that struck the towers on 9/11 - contradicting the official account.

Both the independent 9/11 Commission and federal authorities continue to insist that none of the four devices - a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (FDR) from the two planes - were ever found in the wreckage.

But New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi has written in a recent book (http://www.tracteam.org/) -- self-published by several Ground Zero workers -- that he escorted federal agents on an all-terrain vehicle in October 2001 and helped them locate three of the four...

His account is supported by a volunteer, Mike Bellone (http://www.tracteam.org/) , whose efforts at Ground Zero have been chronicled in the New York Times and elsewhere. Bellone said assisted DeMasi and the agents and that saw a device that resembling a “black box” in the back of the firefighter’s ATV.That's not the FDNY.

You don't believe the FDNY, you believe the totally unbelievable and uncorroborated story told by DeMasi. (Bellone only "saw a device that resembling a “black box” in the back of the firefighter’s ATV.").

[hellaeon]

tc329, get a life.

No matter what is shown, you have convinced yourself that its a conspiracy of the highest magnitude. Stop crapping on your lies to everyone here.

I can analyse your requests without much effort


plane part with serial numbers?


If you got it now, you would analyze it with other planes parts where the serial numbers are placed on a similar part and conclude its a fake part through your expert photo analytical skills. You would not accept it, you would find a way to cry like a baby about it. :rolleyes:


black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?

Even if this or any statement is incorrect, you wont budge. Similarly I am sure if Ron Jeremy was to have been heard to say he preferred having sexual intercourse with men, you would believe it despite any evidence otherwise :rolleyes:


video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?


Of course you need 80+ cameras footage. If you got 70 and they showed what happened you would say what happened to the rest? Or you might say it took 'them' this long to produce 70 fake videos. :rolleyes:


NIST report about WTC7?


And you will read it im sure...You will make lots of claims and wave your fists and cry foul. Unless it says what you want, everything will be wrong. :rolleyes:

Why even bother typing that in the forum? Do yourself a favour and get out of the house.

[TheDoLittle]

What is it that you want from us?

What will it take to convince you?


A good first time lay.

[nicepants]

NIST report about WTC7?

...and when this is released, what will it mean for you? Another NIST report you will claim is wrong and produced by shills?



What is it that you want from us?

[truther]Buy my dvd, make me rich & famous[/quote]


What will convince you?

No truther will answer this question seriously, that would require them to set the goalposts down, and it's much easier to dodge evidence when you keep them moving.

[Sparky]

You mean that Canadian actor on our payroll? C'mon, they're smarter than that. :rolleyes:

I thought he looked a lot like William Shatner! :D

[nicepants]

I thought he looked a lot like William Shatner! :D

..you should have heard the audio before we dubbed it over! :D

[johnny karate]

I believe the FDNY.

Does that include the unanimous opinion of every firefighter who was on the scene that WTC7 collapsed due to debris damage and fire?

[Drudgewire]

I thought he looked a lot like William Shatner! :D
"We must... desTROY... the... AMERican infidels!"

Has anyone checked to see if the terrorists booked their flights through Priceline? :tinfoil

[Sparky]

..you should have heard the audio before we dubbed it over! :D

Let me guess....

"KHAN!!!!!"

[PhantomWolf]

Let me guess....

"KHAN!!!!!"

No, he kept looking at the camera and saying "Denny Crane!"

[NobbyNobbs]

I don't know, I don't have access to all the evidence to make an informed decision.

But you already seem to have made a decision. You've decided that the official story is wrong.

I believe the FDNY.

The FDNY says WTC7 came down due to damage and fire.





The FBI says none of them capture the impact. You do know there was a camera on the roof directly above the impact spot pointing straight out towards the Citgo station, right?

A) How do you know there was a camera there?
B) What is the resolution of that camera?
C) Was it a recording camera, or a live feed?
D) Was the recording destroyed in the impact?

Do you know the answers to any of these? Do you plan to find out?



Two men who worked extensively in the wreckage of the World Trade Center claim they helped federal agents find three of the four “black boxes” from the jetliners that struck the towers on 9/11 - contradicting the official account.



All that wreckage...all that space...all those workers....and two men...the same two men....found three out of four boxes?

That's like winning the lottery three nights in a row.

[twinstead]

plane part with serial numbers?

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?

video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?

NIST report about WTC7?

BS. You wouldn't accept ANY of that stuff. What has been presented would in ANY investigation of any event that has ever occurred be considered sufficient.

There's just something about 911 for you folks, and that something is ideology. If you required the same proof of other events you wouldn't believe anything has ever happend. Ever.

[Sparky]

You do know there was a camera on the roof directly above the impact spot pointing straight out towards the Citgo station, right?


As one who has installed many such dome cameras in the past, I feel fairly certain that it was aimed across the front of the building instead of straight out towards Citgo. What reason would they have to be looking away from the property for?

Do you have knowledge about where it was aimed you're not sharing with us?

[PhantomWolf]

All that wreckage...all that space...all those workers....and two men...the same two men....found three out of four boxes?

That's like winning the lottery three nights in a row.

Especially when this is a flight recorder (http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t790/T790603A.jpg) and this is Flight 77's CVR (http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/events-images/458_flight77_cockpit_voice_recorder2050081722-9402_2050081722-15892.jpg)

Why should Flight 11 or 175's be in better condition, at least good enough condition to be recognisable to an untrained person?

Flight 93's (http://www.mishalov.com/flight93-voice-recorder.jpg) recorders (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41554000/jpg/_41554884_416fdr_ap.jpg) didn't fare much better, but without a building falling on top of it they were at least still recognisable.

[eromitlab]

To answer the OP... truthers want everyone, even the sheeple, to buy into 9/11 troof with as little convincing as it took them to buy in. That way, they can prop up their self-worth and ego by claiming they knew it before everyone else, so that makes them better/smarter/stronger/faster. Plus, they don't have to "work as hard" to convince people.

[DavidJames]

What will it take to convince you?Nothing will convince them.

The CTists that come here are mostly trolls (you know who you are) with a few who are mentally ill (you don't).

[Sabrina]

The FBI says none of them capture the impact. You do know there was a camera on the roof directly above the impact spot pointing straight out towards the Citgo station, right?

Evidence or proof for this claim, please. Or are you referring to the cameras AT the Citgo station, none of which captured anything more than a portion of the fireball, I believe.

[thatsmystory]

Nothing will convince them.

The CTists that come here are mostly trolls (you know who you are) with a few who are mentally ill (you don't).
What is your criteria for determining someone is either a troll or mentally ill?

IMO, some debunkers come across as authoritarian.

[DavidJames]

What is your criteria for determining someone is either a troll or mentally ill?

IMO, some debunkers come across as authoritarian.I won't make a judgment regarding mentally illness, I'll ask. Borfors has stated he is bi-polar, christophera also has acknowledged some form of mental illness. While I suspect a few others are, I'll withhold judgement.

Most are the others are trolls, admittedly, my opinion based on their behavior.

[e^n]

plane part with serial numbers?
None of us are really in a position to show you any convincing evidence that matching serial numbers existed. I don't even know if there's any legal process other than a criminal investigation which would allow you to get access to the records, but if you ask nicely (and I suggest perhaps hide your true motivation) the airline companies might be willing to provide them to you.

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?
One of the people involved in claiming this was later shown to be a fraud, this doesn't make the story inherently untrue of course but even so it would seem to be particularly weak evidence to accept something without question. Have you contacted the FBI / any NYFD members about this?

video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?
None of these tapes show AA77 according to the FBI, it's not entirely unbelievable they wouldn't either, typically the monitor display of cameras is live but tapes / disk recordings are often 1fps or lower. Furthermore you should consider the placement of the cameras, typical NTSC cameras only have 480 lines of vertical resolution, in order for these videos to be usable the cameras have to be situated and zoomed appropriately so the monitored area fills the field of vision. There is only one camera I know of that has been identified that may have shown AA77 in good quality and I believe that was the camera atop the VDOT antenna. Have you made FOIA requests for any of these recordings?

NIST report about WTC7?
Is on its way, what's wrong with the preliminary report?

[LastChild]

Truthers: What do you want from us?

We want you to actually debunk something. Anything.

[Good Lt]

We want you to actually debunk something. Anything.

As soon as you present evidence supporting your conspiracy fantasies. Anything will do.

[Swing Dangler]

plane part with serial numbers?

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?

video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?

NIST report about WTC7?

I would add:

1. All the evidence and models NIST used to compile their report, considering as a taxpayer, I paid for the thing.

2. Chemical tests for explosive residue from all three crime scenes... you know the standard forensic procedure involving crimes that have large amounts of fire and/or explosives.

3. Airport video showing all of the hijackers at their respective gates, at their respective flights, at their airports.

4. Evidence that these 'jackers got on board their planes.

5. An explanation about the hijackers being "alive" or the mistaken identity issue.

6. I would like to be data presented to the public that would end articles like this:
Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 “Impossible”, “A Bunch of Hogwash”, “Total B.S.”, “Ludicrous”, “A Well-Organized Cover-up”, “A White-Washed Farce”
Jan. 14, 2008 Article on OpEdNews

Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 "Flawed", "Absurd", "Totally Inadequate", "a Cover-up"
Jan. 5, 2008 Article on OpEdNews

Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation – Official Account of 9/11 "Impossible", "Hogwash", "Fatally Flawed"
Dec. 13, 2007 Article on OpEdNews

Eight Senior Republican Administration Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – "Not Possible", "a Whitewash", "False"
Dec. 4, 2007

Seven CIA Veterans Challenge 9/11 Commission Report – Official Account of 9/11 a "Joke" and a "Cover-up"
Sep. 23, 2007 Article on OpEdNews

7. The lack of contradictions and omissions and distortions in the official story.

Then again, the OP is a moot point. Debunkers are not the United States Government.

[Swing Dangler]

As soon as you present evidence supporting your conspiracy fantasies. Anything will do.

This is one of my favorite debunking statements.

Hey Good Lt., who has the evidence? Oh never mind, I know you know the answer.

[Good Lt]

Hey Good Lt., who has the evidence? Oh never mind, I know you know the answer.

You don't have any evidence?

[aggle-rithm]

What is it that you want from us?


They want us to keep doing what we're doing. Arguing in favor of a conspiracy is all they've got. The last thing they want is any kind of resolution.

[LastChild]

This is one of my favorite debunking statements.

Hey Good Lt., who has the evidence? Oh never mind, I know you know the answer.

Well we all know Debunkers don't need any evidence. The burden of pwoof is on the twoofer.

[1337m4n]

We show you plane parts. You claim they are planted.

We show you documents. You claim they are forged.

We show you videos. You claim they are faked.

We show you witness testimonies. You claim they are lies.

We show you research papers. You claim they are deceptive.

We show you al-Quaeda's confessions. You claim they are hoaxes.

We show you expert opinions. You claim they are shills.


^^^^^^^^^

[Good Lt]

^^^^^^^^^

Pshu.

None of that is "evidence."

It doesn't support our conspiracy fantasies, assuming we've figured out exactly what our conspiracy fantasies are.

Which we haven't. Give us a few more years, and maybe we'll put together a coherent theory or alternative explanation of 9-11.

/Troofer off

[SpitfireIX]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410B.html


Two men who worked extensively in the wreckage of the World Trade Center claim they helped federal agents find three of the four “black boxes” from the jetliners that struck the towers on 9/11 - contradicting the official account.

Both the independent 9/11 Commission and federal authorities continue to insist that none of the four devices - a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (FDR) from the two planes - were ever found in the wreckage.

But New York City firefighter Nicholas DeMasi has written in a recent book (http://www.tracteam.org/) -- self-published by several Ground Zero workers -- that he escorted federal agents on an all-terrain vehicle in October 2001 and helped them locate three of the four...

His account is supported by a volunteer, Mike Bellone (http://www.tracteam.org/) , whose efforts at Ground Zero have been chronicled in the New York Times and elsewhere. Bellone said assisted DeMasi and the agents and that saw a device that resembling a “black box” in the back of the firefighter’s ATV. [emphasis added]


So Bellone just thought he saw something that looked like a flight recorder; that hardly corroborates DeMasi's story.

That's beside the point, however. As I and others have discussed previously, DeMasi's account is simply not credible.

First, the idea that three of the flight recorders could have been located in a single day of searching is utterly implausible. The recorders would have had to have been near enough to the surface of the debris to have been retrievable on that particular day, but not exposed in the open where someone would have noticed them and called attention to them. It is remotely possible that the CVR and FDR from one aircraft could have been located this way, had they both remained attached to a small section of the fuselage, but for recorders from both aircraft to have turned up in this way is a virtual impossibility.

Second, there is no special equipment that can help to locate flight recorders that end up on land. The only sort of beacons the recorders are equipped with are sonic Underwater Locator Beacons ("pingers") that activate if the devices are immersed in water (see here).

Finally, even if such equipment existed, it would have been operated by technicians from the National Transportation Safety Board, rather than Federal law-enforcement agents. Whenever the FBI takes over an air crash investigation because a criminal act is suspected, the NTSB still provides technical assistance, as it did in the analysis of the recorders from United 93 and American 77.

[Bobert]

Evidence that supports that the government did it.
I fixed your quote for you

[Good Lt]

I fixed your quote for you

Mind sharing the "evidence" with everyone?

Thanks in advance.

[LastChild]

Debunkers: When are you going to debunk something?


You show us plane parts. We ask where the rest of it is and how it was identified.

We show you documents you claim they are irrelevant.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1853567/posts

We show you videos. You claim they are faked.
I84-_hcbtyU

We show you witness testimonies. You claim they are mistaken.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/eyewitnesses.html

We show you research papers. You claim they are deceptive.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/

We show you denials. You claim he changed his mind.
http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html

We show you expert quotes when you have none.
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html

[Bobert]

Mind sharing the "evidence" with everyone?

Thanks in advance.

I dont have any evidence that that the government did it.
Read his first post in this thread and I think you will get why I posted that.

[Pardalis]

Debunkers: When are you going to debunk something?

This cassette has been played.


You show us plane parts. We ask where the rest of it is and how it was identified.Why don't you find that out for yourself? You're an adult right?

We show you documents you claim they are irrelevant.
We've explained to you why.

We show you videos. You claim they are faked.I don't know about that video, but it sure is irrelevant.

We show you witness testimonies. You claim they are mistaken.
We've explained to you why.

We show you research papers. You claim they are deceptive.
We've explained to you why.

We show you denials. You claim he changed his mind.We showed you that he did.

We show you expert quotes when you have none.
Yes these are quotes, we showed you multiple journals and reports. Where are your experts' reports and studies? Oh right, they haven't made any.

[Good Lt]

Debunkers: When are you going to debunk something?

When are you going to PROVE something?

You show us plane parts. We ask where the rest of it is and how it was identified.

This was done. You ignore it.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/linksto911forensicsaqndvictimidentificat
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/aircraftpartsnyc911

We show you documents you claim they are irrelevant.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1853567/posts


They are.

We show you videos. You claim they are faked.
I84-_hcbtyU


They are.

We show you witness testimonies. You claim they are mistaken.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/eyewitnesses.html


They are.

We show you research papers. You claim they are deceptive.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/ (http://www.journalof911studies.com/)

That, and they're wrong. Try submitting one to a mainstream science journal if you're so sure they're airtight. We're still waiting.

We show you denials. You claim he changed his mind.
http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html (http://911review.com/articles/usamah/khilafah.html)

We point out that people have the ability to change their minds when (SHOCK) new facts are introduced. You scream CONSPIRACY!!! LIES!!!

We show you expert quotes when you have none.
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html

Your cronies have produced no expert research that means anything to anybody but your own kook cult. Hence, the pathetic state of your "movement."

[Bobert]

LastChild,
I think you would do the victims of 9-11 a great service by contacting your local or national law enforcement ageny and tell them they need to examine this mountain of evidence that you have!
Who will you contact first?

[nicepants]

Debunkers: When are you going to debunk something?

We show you research papers. You claim they are deceptive.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/

Those aren't research papers, they're CT drivel. Call us when one of those "papers" is published in a scientific journal.

[Thunder]

We show you plane parts. You claim they are planted.

We show you documents. You claim they are forged.

We show you videos. You claim they are faked.

We show you witness testimonies. You claim they are lies.

We show you research papers. You claim they are deceptive.

We show you al-Quaeda's confessions. You claim they are hoaxes.

We show you expert opinions. You claim they are shills.

What is it that you want from us?

What will it take to convince you?

It is a very very common Truther mantra, that NO amount evidence will EVER convince them that 9-11 was not an inside job.

No amount of evidence, no amount of testimony, no amount of confessions, and no amount of eyewitnesses, will ever change their minds.

Makes you wonder why the heck they want a "new investigation" if they are already 100% convinced and can never be swayed.

They dont want a debate. They just want their way..and thats it.

Thats why they are fascists.

[twinstead]

I'm still confused as to why the evidence that is in the public domain that supports the 'official story' isn't enough. For example, DNA evidence is admissible in a court of law. If DNA evidence is presented that showed the passengers remains were found in the Pentagon, that alone would be a hugely compelling argument that the airliner in question hit the Pentagon.

Yea, lawyers would argue that the DNA evidence could have been faked, but if that were the case lawyers would argue that the DNA evidence could have been faked for every single case that has ever been decided by DNA evidence. Unless they can PROVE it was faked or the tests were done improperly, they lose.

And this is just the DNA evidence. There is a HUGE amount of other physical and eye witness testimony that also supports the 'official story'.

It appears that all the truth movement can do to counter it is find 'anomalies' and some small number eye witnesses who claim they saw something else, something that is to be expected in any situation where a large number of people witness a big, unexpected event

The OP is still valid. What the hell more do you want?

[Thunder]

they just want to be heard. thats it.

[gumboot]

plane part with serial numbers?

black boxes FDNY responders claimed to have lead the FBI to at GZ?

video of AA77 on it's official flight path from one of the 80+ confiscated video tapes?

NIST report about WTC7?


Here's the perfect answer to your question, 1337m4n.

They will cherry pick the vast armada of evidence about 9/11 and select a handful of very specific, insignificant pieces of evidence which they already know for a fact cannot be presented.

They know the aircraft were not identified by serial numbered parts.

They know there were no black boxes located at Ground Zero.

They know AA77's approach was not captured on camera.

They know NIST's WTC7 report has not been released.

So they are perfectly safe.

This request uncovers their dishonesty and their agenda and puts it under the harsh light of day, where it's true ugliness is revealed.

[twinstead]

They will cherry pick the vast armada of evidence about 9/11 and select a handful of very specific, insignificant pieces of evidence which they already know for a fact cannot be presented.


Well, I'm just SHOCKED. Truthers wouldn't do that; that's simply dishonest. :jaw-dropp

[1337m4n]

We want you to actually debunk something. Anything.

Please list all 9/11 conspiracy theories that have not been debunked.

[Newtons Bit]

We show you research papers. You claim they are deceptive.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/

We debunk them. Here's my person debunkings:

On Gordon Ross and collapse propagation:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=82680
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=86422
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=97584

On a JONES reviewer not knowing what he's talking about:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=102813

And on the collapse initiation "mechanism":
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=107267

And some of the people here have done far, far more than I have.

[Drudgewire]

I'm not a truther, but if you're asking I'd like some cheesecake. :)

[LastChild]

Please list all 9/11 conspiracy theories that have not been debunked.

It would take a lot less time just listing the ones that have been debunked.

In fact it wouldn't take any time at all.

[stateofgrace]

It would take a lot less time just listing the ones that have been debunked.

In fact it wouldn't take any time at all.

So what are you waiting for then?

Please provide a list of the 911 conspiracies that have been debunked.

[applecorped]

It would take a lot less time just listing the ones that have been debunked.

In fact it wouldn't take any time at all.

Right! Because you haven't debunked any!

[1337m4n]

It would take a lot less time just listing the ones that have been debunked.

Space Beams
Pods
Thermite
Demolition
Phantom Planes
A3 Skywarriors
Magic Flyovers
TV Fakery
Fire can't melt steel
LastChild is not a troll


That's what I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more.

[AZCat]

Space Beams
Pods
Thermite
Demolition
Phantom Planes
A3 Skywarriors
Magic Flyovers
TV Fakery
Fire can't melt steel
LastChild is not a troll


That's what I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more.

Nothing is ever permanently debunked. All it takes is the passage of time, or another fresh-faced truther rushing in here all aglow with his/her newfound knowledge (thanks to YouTube), to rebunk any of these.

[Oxigen]

I fixed your quote for you

Did you now! I recall saying irrefutible evidence. By which I mean serial no's, video's of plane hitting pentagon, etc.

[DGM]

Did you now! I recall saying irrefutible evidence. By which I mean serial no's, video's of plane hitting pentagon, etc.
Speak to the people that were there. The truth will set you free, don't be afraid.

[Oxigen]

Also, photographs of Osama which keep changing, do not help your debunking. JHC, the amount of Uncle Sam's lucky finds defies even incredulity!

[Oxigen]

Speak to the people that were there. The truth will set you free, don't be afraid.

Through relatives I have (police force etc). Sorry to say I am getting the same message.

[beachnut]

We show you plane parts. You claim they are planted.

We show you documents. You claim they are forged.

We show you videos. You claim they are faked.

We show you witness testimonies. You claim they are lies.

We show you research papers. You claim they are deceptive.

We show you al-Quaeda's confessions. You claim they are hoaxes.

We show you expert opinions. You claim they are shills.

What is it that you want from us?

What will it take to convince you?
Not a thing can help those few too challenged to understand 9/11. The 9/11 truth cult is formed around a few leaders who are selling books and DVDs to people who like CTs. There seem to be a few so called 9/11 truth experts who are oblivious to facts and feed the cult making the Dylans and Balsamos happy, as they try to cash in;, what else would they do?


Once they join a cult, it is hard to get out and use their own mind instead of repeating what they think is "out of the box", anti-establishment, revelations; and they are unable to stop and think to see they are spreading hearsay, lies and pure crazy propaganda.

[DGM]

Through relatives I have (police force etc). Sorry to say I am getting the same message.
Who have you spoke to that was involved in the rescue and recovery? I know of none that have any doubts as to what crashed there.

[Oxigen]

Who have you spoke to that was involved in the rescue and recovery? I know of none that have any doubts as to what crashed there.

Well my sister-in-law visited the NYPD to give charity relief way back in 2001. She is a detective from Europe but voiced concerns from the NYPD.

[1337m4n]

I recall saying irrefutible evidence. By which I mean serial no's, video's of plane hitting pentagon, etc.

Okay. Then by the same standards, I require the serial numbers of the explosives used to bring down the WTC before I will believe in magical Controlled Demolitions.

[Oxigen]

Okay. Then by the same standards, I require the serial numbers of the explosives used to bring down the WTC before I will believe in magical Controlled Demolitions.

Yes. But I also don't recall saying anything about controlled demolitions. You guys are f*****s for putting words into people's mouths.

[TheRedWorm]

Yes. But I also don't recall saying anything about controlled demolitions. You guys are f*****s for putting words into people's mouths.



I'm sure he is sorry. Please inform us as to what you think happened to the twin towers and WTC 7, so we can assess your threshold of evidence.

[gc051360]

I recall saying irrefutible evidence. By which I mean serial no's, video's of plane hitting pentagon, etc.

Aren't your doubts unreasonable though?

We don't have clear video of plane hitting Pentagon. So, basically, we can never believe that a plane hit the Pentagon? Despite witnesses seeing a plane? Despite plane wreckage being found on the scene? Despite an entire plane gone missing?

Come on.

[Oxigen]

I have no idea what happened, but what I am sure of is that the official version is too say at the least, rather far fetched and stretches incredulibity to its limits.

[gc051360]

I have no idea what happened, but what I am sure of is that the official version is too say at the least, rather far fetched and stretches incredulibity to its limits.

Could you possibly expand on this?

[TheRedWorm]

nvm

[Oxigen]

Could you possibly expand on this?

Not tonight. Am knackered as they say in Ireland. Hope to discuss this in a reasonable fashion tommorow, but need my beauty sleep tonight.

[beachnut]

I have no idea what happened, but what I am sure of is that the official version is too say at the least, rather far fetched and stretches incredulibity to its limits.
Let me predict you will never present any evidence to support your view. Ever. 6 years and 9/11 truth is still a non-starter due to ignorance on all things 9/11.

[nicepants]

I have no idea what happened, but what I am sure of is that the official version is too say at the least, rather far fetched and stretches incredulibity to its limits.

Perhaps you have an alternate theory which is more....reasonable? We'd love to hear it (new thread, of course).

[LastChild]

Let me predict you will never present any evidence to support your view. Ever. 6 years and 9/11 truth is still a non-starter due to ignorance on all things 9/11.

Maybe they're just trying to get it right. You know... like NIST?

[Good Lt]

Maybe they're just trying to get it right. You know... like NIST?

Maybe you should just prove 9-11 was an inside job.

You've had over 6 years and you have not done so.

Hop to it.

[nicepants]

Maybe they're just trying to get it right. You know... like NIST?

If Truthers had published, by now, a complete analysis and explanation of what they believe happened to WTC 1 & 2, supported by experts from the relevant engineering fields, I wouldn't mind them taking a while longer to produce one on WTC7.

[1337m4n]

Yes. But I also don't recall saying anything about controlled demolitions. You guys are f*****s for putting words into people's mouths.

So the Twin Towers just fell down of their own accord?



I can't get enough of these Truthers who claim that they "don't know" what happened on 9/11, except that it definitely wasn't the official story.

"I never said controlled demolitions! I just said the official story was wrong!"

If it wasn't the fire, then that doesn't really leave a whole lot of options now does it? Are you trying to tell me that it was Bigfoot?

Furthermore, if you "don't know" what happened, how can you be so 100% sure the "official story" is wrong?

"What happened" is immediately apparent to anyone who stops instantly believing everything the Truth Movement says.

Planes hit the Towers.
Towers fell down.
Towers hit 7.
7 fell down.
Plane hit the Pentagon.
Plane crashed in Shanksville.
Al-Queada is responsible.

What is wrong with each of the above statements? You do not say. Instead you take the coward's way out and pretend you "don't know", but wait! You DO know SOMETHING, otherwise how could you say the above statements are incorrect? Unless you are lying. But as we all know, a Truther would never lie. Right?

tl;dr: Stop pretending. It's plain as day what you actually believe. You ask me for serial numbers from the planes? Why would anyone even need that? What's to stop you from claiming they are faked as well? If you're a no-planer please just come right out and admit it.

[Bobert]

Well my sister-in-law visited the NYPD to give charity relief way back in 2001. She is a detective from Europe but voiced concerns from the NYPD.

WOW STOP THE PRESSES!
ALERT THE MEDIA!
THE NWO IS GOING DOWN TONIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!
"VOICED CONCERNS"
NOT THAT IS SOME ROCK SOLID EVIDENCE!

[Bobert]

I spoke with my brother's neghbor who happens to be the exgirlfriend of a police officer that was near a guy who said that he waw what appeared to be a plane but then some other dude standing next to him said it wasnt then he was talking to this other dude who was standing on a bridge who looked down and saw something appear so he looked up and then this guy rode by on a bike who SWORE that a plane pulled up and over the Pentagon.

[DGM]

Well my sister-in-law visited the NYPD to give charity relief way back in 2001. She is a detective from Europe but voiced concerns from the NYPD.
Sounds like you found someone that confirms your believes and stopped there. How exactly does that help you discover what really happened? If you doubt that a plane hit the Pentagon wouldn't it make more sense to talk to the people that worked there?

I think like most "truthers" you really don't want to accept what happened that day.

[Oxigen]

Sounds like you found someone that confirms your believes and stopped there. How exactly does that help you discover what really happened? If you doubt that a plane hit the Pentagon wouldn't it make more sense to talk to the people that worked there?

I think like most "truthers" you really don't want to accept what happened that day.

Well I pretty much accepted what happened that day, but found within a
few days that I began to get a bit skeptical of all the ******** that was being directed by the MSM. I believe this is a skeptics forum, but like Apollo I do believe that you do seem to have a preconceived idea as to what happened, and no one is at all skeptical. I'm sorry but I don't swallow it hook, line and sinker.

[defaultdotxbe]

Well I pretty much accepted what happened that day, but found within a
few days that I began to get a bit skeptical of all the ******** that was being directed by the MSM. I believe this is a skeptics forum, but like Apollo I do believe that you do seem to have a preconceived idea as to what happened, and no one is at all skeptical. I'm sorry but I don't swallow it hook, line and sinker.
skepticism doesnt mean doubting everything, for example should i be skeptical of the notion that gravity pulls things downward, towards the earths surface?

you do seem to have a preconceived idea as to what happened, and no one is at all skeptical.
this pretty much describes every member of the truth movement

[Oxigen]

It doesn't mean accepting everything at face value either.

[defaultdotxbe]

It doesn't mean accepting everything at face value either.
who here does?

other than the truthers of course, who never seem to question their pet theories

[gc051360]

Well I pretty much accepted what happened that day, but found within a
few days that I began to get a bit skeptical of all the ******** that was being directed by the MSM. I believe this is a skeptics forum, but like Apollo I do believe that you do seem to have a preconceived idea as to what happened, and no one is at all skeptical. I'm sorry but I don't swallow it hook, line and sinker.

I really grow tired of truthers using the "Hey man. I believed the official story at first. But then, I just started having these questions man. But, instead of looking for the answers, I just assumed it was an inside job. And then I started pwning noobs on message boards"

eta: I kind of added a few lines of my own in there. But the first 2, are how they try to gain credibility I suppose.

[LashL]

Well my sister-in-law visited the NYPD to give charity relief way back in 2001. She is a detective from Europe but voiced concerns from the NYPD.

That's pretty vague. Can you please be more specific about the "concerns" that were voiced by the NYPD?

[Oxigen]

who here does?

other than the truthers of course, who never seem to question their pet theories

I honestly don't think anyone has answers. But am not satisfied with the US government answers. I honestly think there was more to it than 19 hijackers. just my opionion.

[Oxigen]

That's pretty vague. Can you please be more specific about the "concerns" that were voiced by the NYPD?

NO

[DGM]

I honestly don't think anyone has answers. But am not satisfied with the US government answers. I honestly think there was more to it than 19 hijackers. just my opionion.
Judging from this answer can I assume you don't buy into any of the controlled demolition or no flight 77 nonsense? There is no evidence for these theories you know?

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

What do they want? Someone to argue with them so they feel special and pretend that their fantastical paranoid delusions matter.

[stateofgrace]

What do they want? Someone to argue with them so they feel special and pretend that their fantastical paranoid delusions matter.

Correct.

I honestly don't think anyone has answers. But am not satisfied with the US government answers. I honestly think there was more to it than 19 hijackers. just my opionion.

I am curious, have you ever seen this?


The Interpol General Assembly, meeting in Budapest from 24 to 28 September 2001 at its 70th session:
RECALLING the murderous attacks perpetrated against the world’s citizens in the United States of America on 11 September 2001,
SHOCKED by the loss of and injury to thousands of innocent lives from over 80 countries, including scores of police officers, firefighters and other public servants called to the scene to aid those in need,
DETERMINED that this abhorrent violation of law and of the standards of human decency must be condemned by every civilized person,
CONSCIOUS of our special responsibility as upholders of the laws of almost every nation of the world,
BEARING IN MIND the consistent record of Interpol at past General Assembly sessions in opposing all acts of terrorism, most recently at the 67th session in Cairo (http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/GeneralAssembly/AGN67/Resolutions/AGN67RES12.asp) (1998) and the 68th session in Seoul (http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/GeneralAssembly/AGN68/Resolutions/AGN68RES2.asp) (1999),
CONDEMNS these attacks as cold-blooded mass murder;
CONSIDERS that they constitute a crime against humanity;
COMMENDS the General Secretariat for its swift and decisive response to the 11 September tragedy in establishing an immediate and permanent 24-hour capability to respond to all Interpol member countries’ needs;
HONOURS the memory of the law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency workers and private citizens who selflessly gave their lives to save others;
SHARES in the grief of all those who have been touched by this tragedy and other tragedies caused by terrorism;
REITERATES its unwavering commitment to the 'Cairo Declaration against Terrorism' (AGN/67/RES/12 (http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/GeneralAssembly/AGN67/Resolutions/AGN67RES12.asp)) and calls for enhanced international police and judicial collaboration to tackle terrorism and organized crime more effectively, for example by exploring all opportunities to co-ordinate legal, judicial and operational approaches;
EMPHASIZES the importance of making full use of the services available through Interpol to secure the arrest of fugitive offenders, to improve information sharing between member countries, to develop analysis of the threat more effectively and to facilitate the timely sharing of good practice;
REQUESTS that the General Secretariat afford the highest priority to the issuance of Interpol Red Notices for terrorist offenders whose arrest is sought by member countries and to accelerate the creation of an international database of counterfeit, forged and stolen identity documents;
URGES member countries to develop robust systems for the monitoring of suspicious financial transactions linked to terrorist activities in order to improve the ability of competent authorities to freeze such assets and so disrupt the funding of terrorism;
SOLEMNLY PLEDGES that the Organization and each of its Members endorsing the present resolution will collaborate without reservation, to the fullest extent permitted by law, in identifying every individual who assisted in committing these acts and bringing those who were responsible for them to justice.

Adopted.


http://www.interpol.int/public/ICPO/GeneralAssembly/AGN70/Resolutions/AGN70RES5.asp

It is a resolution adopted by 186 countries from across the planet, making a solemn pledge to bring to justice those who were responsible for this dreadful act.

Do you believe that they are just playing along with the USG? Do you honestly think the entire planet would just stand by and allow the USG to murder their citizens and do nothing?

The investigation was not conducted solely by the US and the US was not the only country that lost people that day.

The other 95% of the planet that does not live inside the US does not stand by and allow 5% of this world’s population to murder their citizens. Nor does it stand idly by while the USG makes up stuff.

The World investigation into this tragic event was and still is massive. The world does keep its mouth shut while the USG murders its citizens.

If there was any evidence to suggest the USG was involved in mass murder of people from over 70 countries on Sept 11th, what on earth makes you think that the rest of the planet would just sit here and do absolutely nothing about it?