New Bin Laden Tape

[nicepants]

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/19/binladen.message/

A new statement attributed to al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden condemns European countries for siding with the United States in Afghanistan and for allowing the publication of cartoons considered insulting to Islam's prophet, Mohammed.

Since so many CTers believe that this Bin-Laden stuff is fake, I wonder what they think of this?

[JCM]

But I thought he was murdered? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=109367)

[TheRedWorm]

[url]<snipage>
Since so many CTers believe that this Bin-Laden stuff is fake, I wonder what they think of this?



If I had to guess, I'd say that they think that he is a CIA agent that periodically releases these types of statements in order to remind the "sheeple" that there is a threat out there. But that is only a guess, and does not necessarily reflect reality.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Since so many CTers believe that this Bin-Laden stuff is fake, I wonder what they think of this?


Think? CTist don't think; they react.

http://digg.com/world_news/New_bin_Laden_tape_threatens_EU_4

[Confuseling]

If I had to guess, I'd say that they think that he is a CIA agent that periodically releases these types of statements in order to remind the "sheeple" that there is a threat out there. But that is only a guess, and does not necessarily reflect reality.

Erm... You might have hit upon something there. The results may be way off, but the methodology's perfect :D

[Pato2747]

On the pictures I'm seeing, he's not wearing his famous "golden" ring.

It's a fake! It's a conspiracy!

Ah, please. The reactions are too many and too unique to be faked by someone. If Bin Laden is dead and a substitute is making this video, he would have been dead before 9/11.

[pomeroo]

The beauty of the liars' fantasy is that the jihadists can hit Western targets any number of times and it will always be the work of the imaginary conspiracy. The lunacy is designed to prevent reality from ever intruding.

[JCM]

With everything that goes on around the globe all the worlds most wanted man can talk about is cartoons for a few minutes. But I guess no one ever said he ws the type that acted rationally. What I don't get is why this billionaire can't seem to get a hold of a sony handy cam?

[thatsmystory]

The beauty of the liars' fantasy is that the jihadists can hit Western targets any number of times and it will always be the work of the imaginary conspiracy. The lunacy is designed to prevent reality from ever intruding.
Please tell me why I should believe the Bin Laden narrative. Is it now to the point where questioning the honesty of government officials means one is out of touch with reality? I didn't realize government officials had such a stellar track record of being honest with the public. My bad.

[gumboot]

What I don't get is why this billionaire can't seem to get a hold of a sony handy cam?


Since when has Osama Bin Laden been a billionaire?

[BenBurch]

Since when has Osama Bin Laden been a billionaire?

Whatever money he had has been stripped from him by now, anyway.

[gtc]

Please tell me why I should believe the Bin Laden narrative. Is it now to the point where questioning the honesty of government officials means one is out of touch with reality? I didn't realize government officials had such a stellar track record of being honest with the public. My bad.

You should believe the Bin Laden narrative because all the evidence points towards the narrative being substantially true and because none of the evidence points to it being false and you are intelligent enough to realise that a narrative for which there is plenty of evidence in favour and none against is probably true.

[chillzero]

What I don't get is why this billionaire can't seem to get a hold of a sony handy cam?

Clearly he knows that the US Intelligence agencies are just waiting for a slip-up like that.

Can you imagine the Paypal data?

Mail to:
Mr O. b. Laden
Big Cave
Somewhere beyond that hill
Afghanistan

[Drudgewire]

Please tell me why I should believe the Bin Laden narrative. Is it now to the point where questioning the honesty of government officials means one is out of touch with reality? I didn't realize government officials had such a stellar track record of being honest with the public. My bad.
Al Jazeera are government officials now?

Sadly, I'm betting your answer is going to be "yes." :rolleyes:

[HawksFan]

Al Jazeera are government officials now?

Sadly, I'm betting your answer is going to be "yes." :rolleyes:

{/Twoof mode} Actually, yes, they are. They are the leaders of the secret state of Aljazeeria. This state is not shown on any map as it is, ya know, secret. I know this because a friend of my second cousin's first girlfriend told me, however his identity needs to remain secret as he may lose his job at the waste treatment plant because of this. This state is used by, ya know, da j00s to run their evil empire. I'll be finishing my documentary on all this soon and it will blow the lid off the whole frickin thing and really open peoples' eyes. {/twoof mode *****

[Jonnyclueless]

Not ALL the bin laden tapes/videos are fake. Let's not exaggerate. Just the ones where he isn't saying the US government was behind 9/11.

[LastChild]

How many people in a vast conspiracy did it take to get that tape public without it being traced back to him?

[applecorped]

three

[DC]

wow
Osama is still alive and they have no clue where he is? They never tracked back the tapes or any other communications?

They should ask back the billions they spend on the Echolon network.
its not working...... or atleast its not enough to listen to Airbus and AQ.

:cool:

[SpitfireIX]

wow
Osama is still alive and they have no clue where he is? They never tracked back the tapes or any other communications?

They should ask back the billions they spend on the Echolon network.
its not working...... or atleast its not enough to listen to Airbus and AQ.

:cool:


:troll

[applecorped]

WOW, truthers have been trying for nearly seven years to prove an inside job but have come up with nothing.

They should ask Dylan for their money back.

Why don't you track back the tape for us, I'm sure your investigative skills are top notch.

[DC]

amazing

ppl comparing a bad researched "docu" from a teenager to a multy billion worldwide spionage network........

they point out how long it takes for the "truth movement" to produce conclusive evidence with theyr private sponsored "investigations" that has no acces to classified information or any of the remaining plane parts or WTC steel.
but dont wonder why FEMA or NIST with relatively big budgets couldnt delive a proper investigated answer to the collapse of WTC7.
while all the "experts" here on JREF deliver dozens of "common sence" answers....
nothing special for them....

:)

[funk de fino]

amazing

ppl comparing a bad researched "docu" from a teenager to a multy billion worldwide spionage network........

they point out how long it takes for the "truth movement" to produce conclusive evidence with theyr private sponsored "investigations" that has no acces to classified information or any of the remaining plane parts or WTC steel.
but dont wonder why FEMA or NIST with relatively big budgets couldnt delive a proper investigated answer to the collapse of WTC7.while all the "experts" here on JREF deliver dozens of "common sence" answers....
nothing special for them....

:)

It's still work in progress, they want to get it right in case irrational liars in the truth movement start saying it was not thorough enough

Learn to spell commonsense before you try to use it to insult posters here skip. Thats two posts and you have shown poor skills in both so far, the only way is up I hope. Welcome to the forum.

[chillzero]

Keep it on topic, and don't personalise the discussion please.

[DC]

Thank you for your warm welcome
Your very quickly offended i guess :)

Commonsense, thank you for that correction. I still need alot corrections in the english spelling, im still relative new to that language. but most of the time its just enough to get true the message.

but your answer is a good one about the still ongoing investigations. and after "theyr" progressive collapse theory got so badly "ripped appart" and then "fixed together" by the "debunkers", it is a wise thing to get a good and conclusive answer first, a proper investigated one.

i cant wait to read it.

:)

[applecorped]

It's called NIST.

[DC]

yes indeed Topic is Bin Ladens new tapes

when they can be considered real then its a clear sign he is still alive and active.
all those billions and international coorporations and still nothing no clue where he is.
will it be solved by spending even more billions? and sending in even more kids?
i bet bankers and the MIC would say yes

:)

[DC]

It's called NIST.

National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)

[pomeroo]

Please tell me why I should believe the Bin Laden narrative. Is it now to the point where questioning the honesty of government officials means one is out of touch with reality? I didn't realize government officials had such a stellar track record of being honest with the public. My bad.



Perhaps you should believe the bin Laden narrative because the Middle Eastern news outlets who vet his videos have no problems with them. We can, of course, pretend that al Jazeera is a CIA front. Although the notion is completely insane, it is not significantly dumber than the rest of the fantasy movement's output.

[LastChild]

three

Does that include UBL and the mailman that delivered it? Can't they waterboard two or three more people or have they all of a sudden got a conscience now?

[pomeroo]

Does that include UBL and the mailman that delivered it? Can't they waterboard two or three more people or have they all of a sudden got a conscience now?


Although nobody has ever suggested that you were smart, you did show basic survival instincts when you fled the thread where I nailed you on Operation Desert Fox. Don't feel bad. Even lefties who aren't conspiracy liars go to pieces when confronted with that inconvenient bit of history.

[VespaGuy]

Please tell me why I should believe the Bin Laden narrative. Is it now to the point where questioning the honesty of government officials means one is out of touch with reality? I didn't realize government officials had such a stellar track record of being honest with the public. My bad.

It's only steller if you compare it to the truthers' track record of "getting things right".

[VespaGuy]

wow
Osama is still alive and they have no clue where he is? They never tracked back the tapes or any other communications?


That's it. Why didn't the government think of that! They can just look at the return address!!!

[Cl1mh4224rd]

That's it. Why didn't the government think of that! They can just look at the return address!!!


Heh. Reminds of the anthropogenic global warming deniers that keep pointing to the Sun as if the climatologists didn't even think about it...

[beachnut]

That's it. Why didn't the government think of that! They can just look at the return address!!!
Do not tell that guy about the 25 million dollars he can get since he knows how to find UBL.

[DC]

What exactly are they doing with that huge Echelon network? 25million and still no AQ whistleblower? or any other usefull hint?

[LastChild]

What exactly are they doing with that huge Echelon network? 25million and still no AQ whistleblower? or any other usefull hint?

Don't forget those Anthrax attacks either Dictator Dick. No whistle blower there either. Boy some people really no how to keep a conspiracy a secret.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

What exactly are they doing with that huge Echelon network? 25million and still no AQ whistleblower? or any other usefull hint?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

[...] on the basis of evidence presented, ECHELON was capable of interception and content inspection of telephone calls, fax, e-mail and other data traffic globally through the interception of communication bearers including satellite transmission, public switched telephone networks and microwave links.


If Al-Qaeda doesn't communicate the whereabouts of OBL through any of these mediums, ECHELON is useless.

[A committee of the European Parliament published in 2001] further concluded that "the technical capabilities of the system are probably not nearly as extensive as some sections of the media had assumed".

[LastChild]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

If Al-Qaeda doesn't communicate the whereabouts of OBL through any of these mediums, ECHELON is useless.

Yeah they don't use telephones or any high tech gadgets like that so our billion dollar ECHELON is useless against their primal evil. They must use something like a Pony Express. Or is it a Camel Express?

Somehow though they know how to use a VCR and exploit the Mass Media to get out their murderous "Death to the Infidel" call to Jihad.

It's pure evil genius I tell ya. We don't have a chance. Should we surrender?

[funk de fino]

Don't forget those Anthrax attacks either Dictator Dick. No whistle blower there either. Boy some people really no how to keep a conspiracy a secret.


especially if its a loner

[LastChild]

especially if its a loner

Yeah like the Green Goblin in Spider-man. Complete with his own lab and everything. LOL

[VespaGuy]

Yeah they don't use telephones or any high tech gadgets like that so our billion dollar ECHELON is useless against their primal evil. They must use something like a Pony Express. Or is it a Camel Express?

Somehow though they know how to use a VCR and exploit the Mass Media to get out their murderous "Death to the Infidel" call to Jihad.

It's pure evil genius I tell ya. We don't have a chance. Should we surrender?

How did Al-Jazeera recieve this last message and how would you go about tracking it?

[DC]

They dont use modern communication to run theyr worldwide net of terrorists cells?
atleast bring some more convincing excuses, like, they use other words, wich echelons filters dont react on, or they use encryption techniques :)

isnt incompetence a geniusly coverup?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

ECHELON doesn't track postal mail, LastChild. It likely doesn't track landline calls within non-participating countries, either. Stop trolling.

[DC]

How did Al-Jazeera recieve this last message and how would you go about tracking it?

how do they get theyr information?

[VespaGuy]

how do they get theyr information?

Your question doesn't answer the question I posed.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Your question doesn't answer the question I posed.


In fact, it's just a far more general rewording of the first half of your question. I think that's a new one for a truther...

[LastChild]

How did Al-Jazeera recieve this last message and how would you go about tracking it?

Someone had to deliver it to them. Who gave it to that person? Someone here implied it wasn't a vast conspiracy keeping his whereabouts a secret. Only three at the most. You can't trace back three people? If it's more then three people like this expert implies...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/08/15/bergen.answers/index.html

then how many are we talking about in this vast conspiracy that's being kept a secret for years now even before 9/11?

Which is it?

[SezMe]

Someone had to deliver it to them. Who gave it to that person?
So when my postperson delivers a piece of mail to me, he knows who delivered it to the post office? Sheeeesh.

[LastChild]

So when my postperson delivers a piece of mail to me, he knows who delivered it to the post office? Sheeeesh.

It can be traced back to what mailbox it was put into. Did someone drop this tape in the mailbox just outside of the cave? How many hands are we talking about now that it's passed through?

[HawksFan]

So when my postperson delivers a piece of mail to me, he knows who delivered it to the post office? Sheeeesh.

Or left anonymously at the door or on someone's desk?

[LastChild]

Or left anonymously at the door or on someone's desk?

You mean we are torturing people to get information and someone at the Al Jazeer office knows where UBL is?

[nicepants]

You mean we are torturing people to get information and someone at the Al Jazeer office knows where UBL is?

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Al Jazeera knows where OBL is. Just because they received some recording doesn't mean they can trace it back to its source.

[Wolrab]

How long did it take to find Eric Rudolph? He was in our own backyard with a tiny fraction of the the assets of someone like Bin Laden.

[LastChild]

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Al Jazeera knows where OBL is. Just because they received some recording doesn't mean they can trace it back to its source.

Someone claimed it might have been left on someones desk. By who?

[LastChild]

How long did it take to find Eric Rudolph? He was in our own backyard with a tiny fraction of the the assets of someone like Bin Laden.

Is UBL recording and delivering these tapes on his own? How vast is this network? How many people need to keep their mouth shut year after year without trying to collect a reward for pointing him out? So committed and trustworthy these murderous terrorist are.

[HawksFan]

You mean we are torturing people to get information and someone at the Al Jazeer office knows where UBL is?

Yes, obviously UBL strolled in to the Al Jazeera offices himself and dropped it off. :rolleyes:

[VespaGuy]

Someone claimed it might have been left on someones desk. By who?

I think that's the point, LC. If someone left it, then you can't trace it. (And before we get into a semantic argument where you ask "how did they get into the building to leave it on a desk", there are many ways to leave a tape for someone to find.

If you were Bin Laden, how would you get a tape to Al-Jazeera without anyone being able to trace it back to you?

[applecorped]

Is UBL recording and delivering these tapes on his own? How vast is this network? How many people need to keep their mouth shut year after year without trying to collect a reward for pointing him out? So committed and trustworthy these murderous terrorist are.

Obviously their vast network is better organized then the troooth movement.

[VespaGuy]

Is UBL recording and delivering these tapes on his own? How vast is this network? How many people need to keep their mouth shut year after year without trying to collect a reward for pointing him out? So committed and trustworthy these murderous terrorist are.

Committed enough to fly planes into towers. Keeping quiet doesn't seem as hard a task.

[DC]

It appeared on a Islamist website that has carried al-Qaeda messages in the past.

source BBC (cant post links yet)

you can write no or a false adress on on an envelope and but it in a mailbox far away. and there will most likley be no trace back to you (DNA fingerprints and such exluded)

but when it come to a webpage then there is always a trace. even if its only traced back to the internetcafe where it was uploaded from. its traceable.

why was it claimed to be sent to Al Jazeera?

[VespaGuy]

It appeared on a Islamist website that has carried al-Qaeda messages in the past.

source BBC (cant post links yet)

you can write no or a false adress on on an envelope and but it in a mailbox far away. and there will most likley be no trace back to you (DNA fingerprints and such exluded)

but when it come to a webpage then there is always a trace. even if its only traced back to the internetcafe where it was uploaded from. its traceable.

why was it claimed to be sent to Al Jazeera?

I was using them as an example. They've showed videos in the past.

Ok, so it was shown on a webpage. Do we know how the website admins came to aquire the tape?

[DC]

I was using them as an example. They've showed videos in the past.

Ok, so it was shown on a webpage. Do we know how the website admins came to aquire the tape?

woudnt we first want to find out what website it was?
who does this website belong to, where is it hosted? who did upload the tape and from wich IP. whom does that IP belong to and so on.

very much of that modern technology where echelon is so not of any use...

but maybe the priority for FBI, CIA, NSA, Mossad, BND, MI5/6, ISI and so on is not so focused on terrorism? terrorism is not such a huge threat like presented by the politic and media. afterall more ppl die to car accidents than to terrorism worldwide.

what are all those ppl working for those agencys doing all day long?

[HawksFan]

what are all those ppl working for those agencys doing all day long?

According to the twoofers, they're all out spreading disinfo.

[DC]

and what are they doing according to conspiracy-deniers?

[T.A.M.]

by conspiracy-deniers, of course you mean rational sane people...Mr. Cheney, sir...

TAM;)

[gc051360]

Think? CTist don't think; they react.

http://digg.com/world_news/New_bin_Laden_tape_threatens_EU_4

From that comment section:

I'm from Denmark and I say : Damn the Muhammed-drawings, they are a staged neo-con provocation.
Damn the Danish Government, warmongering neo-conservative lap-dogs.

I'm not greatly informed on Danish politics, but I would imagine they wouldn't be considered Neo-Conservatives. But "Neo-Con" has become a buzzword. A lot of people who use it, don't even know what it means. Kind of the same way with "Fascist"

Also, this gem:

we don't know which tapes are the real tapes and which ones are CIA made, i just choose to ignore all of them.

Good stuff.

And of course this one:
Give me a break, I don't believe one word of this crap. Nobody is looking for him because he had no connection to 9/11. Don't take my word for it, look at his FBI page and notice what *isn't* on it

Do these people even try to seek out rational explanations for what they hear on the internet?

[Pardalis]

terrorism is not such a huge threat like presented by the politic and media. afterall more ppl die to car accidents than to terrorism worldwide.

That's actually not untrue, statistically speaking.

But it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that it shouldn't be dealt with, and that the repercussions of such attacks aren't important.

[VespaGuy]

woudnt we first want to find out what website it was?
who does this website belong to, where is it hosted? who did upload the tape and from wich IP. whom does that IP belong to and so on.

Sure. All valid questions. Are you claiming that we have the technology to know the answers to these questions but refuse to use it? I'm not sure what you are saying.

very much of that modern technology where echelon is so not of any use...

but maybe the priority for FBI, CIA, NSA, Mossad, BND, MI5/6, ISI and so on is not so focused on terrorism? terrorism is not such a huge threat like presented by the politic and media. afterall more ppl die to car accidents than to terrorism worldwide.

So, we could get Osama, but we choose not to? Is that what you are implying?

what are all those ppl working for those agencys doing all day long?

I love questions like this; born of ignorance but casting doubt on others. (I've spent the past several years as a software programmer. The last project I was on took about a year - a realtively small application - yet, one of the managers (in a non-IT field) who was expecting it, thought he'd have it in about 2 weeks. "But it's a simple thing I'm looking for. How hard should that be? What do you do all day long anyway?" Yup. Ignorance.)

[DC]

That's actually not untrue, statistically speaking.

But it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and that it shouldn't be dealt with, and that the repercussions of such attacks aren't important.

according to Worldbank and WHO they estimate around 1million/year. (2003)

[DC]

by conspiracy-deniers, of course you mean rational sane people...Mr. Cheney, sir...

TAM;)

not really :) but also among them you will find some rational and sane people.

[nicepants]

woudnt we first want to find out what website it was?
who does this website belong to, where is it hosted? who did upload the tape and from wich IP. whom does that IP belong to and so on.

Until you discover that the IP belongs to someone who has a wide-open WIFI access point that's being used by anybody and their brother to leech internet access, or it's the IP of an internet cafe and you don't know who was using one of the dozens of computers at the time.

[DC]

Sure. All valid questions. Are you claiming that we have the technology to know the answers to these questions but refuse to use it? I'm not sure what you are saying.



So, we could get Osama, but we choose not to? Is that what you are implying?



I love questions like this; born of ignorance but casting doubt on others. (I've spent the past several years as a software programmer. The last project I was on took about a year - a realtively small application - yet, one of the managers (in a non-IT field) who was expecting it, thought he'd have it in about 2 weeks. "But it's a simple thing I'm looking for. How hard should that be? What do you do all day long anyway?" Yup. Ignorance.)

i know they have the technology but i dont know what they use it for. what informations do they gain from that network? and what do they do with that info?

could you get him? why would they not when they can?

ignorance? i dont think so. out of my point of view it is pretty ignorant to not question theyr work. especially when one belives the official conspiracy theory or the incompetence theory.

[DC]

Until you discover that the IP belongs to someone who has a wide-open WIFI access point that's being used by anybody and their brother to leech internet access, or it's the IP of an internet cafe and you don't know who was using one of the dozens of computers at the time.

and did they investigate or trace it back so far already? or did they not even try?

[Pushkin]

So committed and trustworthy these murderous terrorist are.

are you trying to sound like yoda deliberately?

[nicepants]

and did they investigate or trace it back so far already? or did they not even try?

I don't know if they tried or not....but Bin Laden isn't stupid. He's not going to leave a follow-able trail unless he wants to be found.

[DC]

I don't know if they tried or not....but Bin Laden isn't stupid. He's not going to leave a follow-able trail unless he wants to be found.

well i assume the huge majorty of terrorists and criminals dont want to leave traces, and even the "best" terrorist can make misstakes and leave a trace.

[DC]

on the other hand, Bin laden is a very strange terrorist anyway
he is the most wanted terrorist but he denies his involvment in the biggest terrorist atack on US soil.

[gc051360]

on the other hand, Bin laden is a very strange terrorist anyway
he is the most wanted terrorist but he denies his involvment in the biggest terrorist atack on US soil.

No. The guy who denied it was a fake Bin Laden. Maybe a secret member of the truth movement.

Gotta fight fire with fire, as far as I'm concerned.

[beachnut]

on the other hand, Bin laden is a very strange terrorist anyway
he is the most wanted terrorist but he denies his involvment in the biggest terrorist atack on US soil.
Lack of knowledge is showing, you need to get the facts correct; you should have listened to UBL, he knew and is a suspect (reading comprehension is needed).

ubl said: We had agreed with the general emir Mohammed Atta, God bless his soul, to carry out all operations within 20 minutes oops, UBL said he helped. How did you miss UBL saying he helped? 6 years and you are still confused about UBL?

When will you go get the 25 million, since you know how to find UBL?

[DC]

Lack of knowledge is showing, you need to get the facts correct; you should have listened to UBL, he knew and is a suspect (reading comprehension is needed).

oops, UBL said he helped.

When will you go get the 25 million, since you know how to find UBL?

while we talk about reading, where did i write "i know how to find UBL" ?

[DC]

oops, UBL said he helped.

When will you go get the 25 million, since you know how to find UBL?

where did he say that? wich tape? who translated it?

[gc051360]

The "who translated it" part is the giveaway. No matter what evidence is given, you can dismiss it as "the translator is in on it" and be done.

[DC]

The "who translated it" part is the giveaway. No matter what evidence is given, you can dismiss it as "the translator is in on it" and be done.

you call it a giveaway. but after i saw a debate by experts about the translation of the alleged confession tape found n afghanistan i knew that not all translations are accurate. but i dont talk arabic so i always have to trust someones translation.

[beachnut]

while we talk about reading, where did i write "i know how to find UBL" ?
You acted like you had something; I was wrong, you have no facts or evidence. You seem to like hearsay and false information, and your posts have shown that.

where did he say that? wich tape? who translated it?
Darn, you have been talking big all day; you already mentioned a few sources who translated the tapes and UBL said he helped. Do some real research for once and stop making major errors in the facts.



UBL said he would kill Americans when he can, you must have missed it while you amassed the big pile of evidence you have on 9/11.

[DC]

You acted like you had something; I was wrong, you have no facts or evidence. You seem to like hearsay and false information, and your posts have shown that.


Darn, you have been talking big all day; you already mentioned a few sources who translated the tapes and UBL said he helped. Do some real research for once and stop making major errors in the facts.



UBL said he would kill Americans when he can, you must have missed it while you amassed the big pile of evidence you have on 9/11.

funny responce from someone that keeps pointing out that the FBI pays 25m for accurate hearsay about UBL....

well i never claimed UBL is a nice guy and totaly missinterpreted. in no way. i even hope you can get him asap. he is a terrorist. i just doubt that he was involved or acted alone regarding 9/11.

i dont like any way of violence, and he is for sure a very violent person.

[VespaGuy]

i know they have the technology but i dont know what they use it for. what informations do they gain from that network? and what do they do with that info?

I'm assuming that since you are asking, that you don't know the answers to those questions. And since you don't know whether or not the U.S has the ability to locate Bin Laden, there is no reason to believe that they do, but not using it; unless you have some proof.

Since you didn't answer the question though, I'll ask again: Are you claiming that we have the technology to know the answers to these questions [where Bin Laden is] but refuse to use it?

could you get him? why would they not when they can?

Can they? In your previous paragraph you are asking about what information they can gather. How do you know that they can?

ignorance? i dont think so. out of my point of view it is pretty ignorant to not question theyr work. especially when one belives the official conspiracy theory or the incompetence theory.

Yes. Ignorance. You aren't asking questions at all. You are implying that we have the technology to find/capture Bin Laden but we are not. You are doing this in the form of questions and saying silly things like "what do they do all day?".

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Do you think that the U.S. has the ability to capture/find Bin Laden but is purposely not using it? Yes or no is fine.

[nicepants]

well i assume the huge majorty of terrorists and criminals dont want to leave traces, and even the "best" terrorist can make misstakes and leave a trace.

Of course any terrorist could make mistakes, but it doesn't take much know-how to send someone a few minutes of audio and have it be virtually impossible for them to figure out where it came from.

Just as an example: Movies frequently find their way onto the internet prior to their theatrical release....the people who do that specialize in covering their tracks.

[LastChild]

are you trying to sound like yoda deliberately?

hear me how can you?

[beachnut]

hear me how can you?
Simile? Standard truther problem with simile, just like Dylan.

[DC]

I'm assuming that since you are asking, that you don't know the answers to those questions. And since you don't know whether or not the U.S has the ability to locate Bin Laden, there is no reason to believe that they do, but not using it; unless you have some proof.

Since you didn't answer the question though, I'll ask again: Are you claiming that we have the technology to know the answers to these questions [where Bin Laden is] but refuse to use it?



Yes. Ignorance. You aren't asking questions at all. You are implying that we have the technology to find/capture Bin Laden but we are not. You are doing this in the form of questions and saying silly things like "what do they do all day?".

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Do you think that the U.S. has the ability to capture/find Bin Laden but is purposely not using it? Yes or no is fine.




Can they? In your previous paragraph you are asking about what information they can gather. How do you know that they can?

when you hd the technology, why woudnt you use it?

i just hope you ppl will ask for evidence when they start talking about the Iran war. but strange anough, whn it comes to war and killing ppl, you seem not to ask for evidence.... then speculations is enough for you ppl.

[DC]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Do you think that the U.S. has the ability to capture/find Bin Laden but is purposely not using it? Yes or no is fine.

limiting the possible answers is not so fine.

i would prefer, i dont know. it looks like they have the technology and it also looks like they still are not able to find UBL.

how many ppl are still asigned to find UBL?

[DC]

Of course any terrorist could make mistakes, but it doesn't take much know-how to send someone a few minutes of audio and have it be virtually impossible for them to figure out where it came from.

Just as an example: Movies frequently find their way onto the internet prior to their theatrical release....the people who do that specialize in covering their tracks.

Movies? this is no movie here, we talk about real world events.

[DC]

i wonder why ppl keep asking truthers for evidence.
shoudnt they ask for evidence that would justify to keep humans in a camp like gitmo without any trial or evidence.

[gtc]

If President Bush shows up at this website, I will be sure to ask him on your behalf.

[DC]

im sure you will

[VespaGuy]

limiting the possible answers is not so fine.

i would prefer, i dont know. it looks like they have the technology and it also looks like they still are not able to find UBL.

So it "looks like" they have the technology to you, and it "looks like" they aren't able to find UBL. So... it "looks like" they purposely aren't finding him to you.

That is the very definition of an arguement from ignorance. Congratulations.

how many ppl are still asigned to find UBL?

Let me guess, because you don't know the answer, it "looks like" there aren't any. Am I close?

[pomeroo]

limiting the possible answers is not so fine.

i would prefer, i dont know. it looks like they have the technology and it also looks like they still are not able to find UBL.

how many ppl are still asigned to find UBL?


The consensus, as you know, is that Osama is in Pakistan, near the border with Afghanistan, where he is protected by friendly tribes. How do you propose getting at him?

Barack Obama suggested that if elected President, he would violate Pakistan's sovereignty and order a mission to find and apprehend bin Laden. It is safe to say that nobody took him seriously.

[DC]

So it "looks like" they have the technology to you, and it "looks like" they aren't able to find UBL. So... it "looks like" they purposely aren't finding him to you.

That is the very definition of an arguement from ignorance. Congratulations.



Let me guess, because you don't know the answer, it "looks like" there aren't any. Am I close?

not what i sayd.

and you are not close at all.

[DC]

The consensus, as you know, is that Osama is in Pakistan, near the border with Afghanistan, where he is protected by friendly tribes. How do you propose getting at him?

Barack Obama suggested that if elected President, he would violate Pakistan's sovereignty and order a mission to find and apprehend bin Laden. It is safe to say that nobody took him seriously.

yes i know that story of that huge caravane of 1000 cars or more. where they let him escape into pakistan.

[VespaGuy]

not what i sayd.

It's exactly what you said. Read your original comment again. (emphasis mine)

limiting the possible answers is not so fine.

i would prefer, i dont know. it looks like they have the technology and it also looks like they still are not able to find UBL.

Here's my response:

So it "looks like" they have the technology to you, and it "looks like" they aren't able to find UBL. So... it "looks like" they purposely aren't finding him to you.


You say it's not what you said, so please explan why you think they haven't found Bin Laden if it "looks like" they have the technology to do so.

and you are not close at all.

Then please expand. You asked how many people are "still assigned". I don't know. Are you seriously looking for ananswer? What's your next step in getting the answer to that question? What should the correct answer be?

[DC]

It's exactly what you said. Read your original comment again. (emphasis mine)



Here's my response:



You say it's not what you said, so please explan why you think they haven't found Bin Laden if it "looks like" they have the technology to do so.



Then please expand. You asked how many people are "still assigned". I don't know. Are you seriously looking for ananswer? What's your next step in getting the answer to that question? What should the correct answer be?

i just wondered, and thaught some of the guys tht are so sure that they do theyr job good enough, would know some details.

[VespaGuy]

i just wondered, and thaught some of the guys tht are so sure that they do theyr job good enough, would know some details.

If you have evidence to the contrary, pplease present it.

[DC]

If you have evidence to the contrary, pplease present it.
you got any evidence?

[pomeroo]

yes i know that story of that huge caravane of 1000 cars or more. where they let him escape into pakistan.


If I'm deciphering your gibberish correctly, you're claiming that bin Laden was in Tora Bora. According to Gen. Tommy Franks, there is no evidence that he actually was.

[DC]

If I'm deciphering your gibberish correctly, you're claiming that bin Laden was in Tora Bora. According to Gen. Tommy Franks, there is no evidence that he actually was.

according to Gary Berntsen he was :)

[BigAl]

If I'm deciphering your gibberish correctly, you're claiming that bin Laden was in Tora Bora. According to Gen. Tommy Franks, there is no evidence that he actually was.

FWIW;

WaPo April 2002

Intelligence officials have assembled what they believe to be decisive evidence, from contemporary and subsequent interrogations and intercepted communications, that bin Laden began the battle of Tora Bora inside the cave complex along Afghanistan's mountainous eastern border. Though there remains a remote chance that he died there, the intelligence community is persuaded that bin Laden slipped away in the first 10 days of December.

After-action reviews, conducted privately inside and outside the military chain of command, describe the episode as a significant defeat for the United States. A common view among those interviewed outside the U.S. Central Command is that Army Gen. Tommy R. Franks, the war's operational commander, misjudged the interests of putative Afghan allies and let pass the best chance to capture or kill al Qaeda's leader. Without professing second thoughts about Tora Bora, Franks has changed his approach fundamentally in subsequent battles, using Americans on the ground as first-line combat units.

In the fight for Tora Bora, corrupt local militias did not live up to promises to seal off the mountain redoubt, and some colluded in the escape of fleeing al Qaeda fighters. Franks did not perceive the setbacks soon enough,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A62618-2002Apr16

[VespaGuy]

you got any evidence?

So... that's a "no", then? Great.

I've noticed that here (as well as just about every other thread you participate in) you have a problem understanding "burden of proof". You may want to look into that.