Are Judaism and Christianity..Opposites?

[Thunder]

Many Jews consider Christianity to be diametrically opposed to Judaism. As if they are polar opposites.

Is this real? If anything, I would consider a poletheist, idol worshipping faith, like Hunduism, to be truly the opposite of Judaism.

[Complexity]

I regard them all as foolish, deluded, superstitious people.

[GreyICE]

Who cares?
I regard them all as foolish, deluded, superstitious people.

Pretty much exactly what he said.

[MG1962]

I regard them all as foolish, deluded, superstitious people.

Thank you for your input - have you got some wings to pull of flies or something

[gtc]

No. Its not as simple as that.

It seems to me that Christianity radically re-interprated the Jewish holy books to show that Jesus was the Messiah that had been anticipated by the prophets. Christianity also added in some new revelations and rules for living and rejected some of the old ones.

In my opinion, the amount of new revelations are too great to simply conclude that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Testament (as the Jews for Jesus seem to do) but the religion is certainly based on Judaism.

This is not to say that either is correct (or both or neither) and these are just my opinions. One thing I don't know much about is what mainstream Jews expect the Messiah will be like when he comes (or even if they still expect him to show up) - will he bring new revelations or simply fulfill the existing revelations about what to expect.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

[Wowbagger]

Anyone who holds an absolute ideology will assume everyone else is the polar opposite of themselves.
"Us vs. Them" is a very pervasive mentality, and tricky to override. But, the sooner everyone does, the sooner we can have some peace on this planet, for once!

[Kopji]

They are opposites in the same sense that roots are the opposite of leaves and branches.

[six7s]

Many Jews consider Christianity to be diametrically opposed to Judaism. As if they are polar opposites

On which planet?

[linusrichard]

Christianity is a Jewish sect - the most popular Jewish sect. It is due to its popularity that it isn't generally called a Jewish sect.

[six7s]

Christianity is a Jewish sect - the most popular Jewish sect. It is due to its popularity widespread power and clever marketing that it isn't generally called a Jewish sect.

Fixed that for you :)

[linusrichard]

Fixed that for you :)

Much more precise, thank you.

[FireGarden]

"Us vs. Them" is a very pervasive mentality, and tricky to override. But, the sooner everyone does, the sooner we can have some peace on this planet, for once!

Well, I'm with you.
But how are we going to convince them?

[Darat]

I don't know but I know many Babylon 5 fans that think Star Trek: Deep Space whatever was diametrically opposed to Babylon 5. As if they are polar opposites.

[Meadmaker]

Background: I grew up Catholic. I gave it up as a young adult. I currently participate in a synagogue, and generally follow Jewish ritual, but I still don't believe in God. BTW, I hope everyone had a happy Purim.

I don't know what it means to be "exactly opposite" a religion. However, I can say that, having experienced both Christianity and Judaism, they are extremely different religions. As a Christian, I thought that Jews were basically the same thing as Christians, except they missed the arrival of the Messiah. It wasn't until spent time associating with Jews, and participating as a sort of pseudo-Jew in the religion, that I realized how wrong that view was. The two religions aren't very close, for reasons I would have a difficult time explaining, but I'll at least take a shot.

In Christianity, the focus is on salvation vs. damnation. Good=Heaven, Bad=Hell. In Judaism, the goal is to lead a good life. No one knows why, or much cares. In 10 years of marginal participation in Jewish ritual, which means that I've gone to at least a hundred synagogue services, and several times that number of "home based" rituals, I can't recall the afterlife ever being mentioned. Once, at a Torah study, one of the participants asked the Rabbi what Jewish teaching was with respect to the afterlife. The Rabbi explained that there was no "official" teaching, but gave some ideas of some Jewish scholars over the centuries. Mind you, of the 10 people there, I was the youngest, at age 45, and the others had all been brought up Jewish, and they didn't know the answer, either. It just isn't something the average Jew worries about a lot.

In Christianity, faith is extremely important. The goal of all those rituals they do is to strengthen faith. Judaism has different rituals, and I'm not sure exactly what the goal is, but I would say that awareness is the key. I don't know how to put it in to words, and it actually took me a few years of participation to "get it", but it really is quite different.

I would say that Judaism actually has more in common with Buddhism than with Christianity, even though, doctrinally, Buddhism appears to be totally different, while Christianity appears nearly identical.

[ntropy]

As Nietzsche put it: A Christian is threefold a Jew.

[JoeEllison]

I don't know but I know many Babylon 5 fans that think Star Trek: Deep Space whatever was diametrically opposed to Babylon 5. As if they are polar opposites.

Yes, well... they ARE, right? Because Harlan Ellison was involved as a creative consultant for Babylon 5, and we all know he was diametrically opposed to Gene Roddenberry. :D

[a_unique_person]

Many Jews consider Christianity to be diametrically opposed to Judaism. As if they are polar opposites.

Is this real? If anything, I would consider a poletheist, idol worshipping faith, like Hunduism, to be truly the opposite of Judaism.

Opposite as in two sides to the same coin.

[Mycroft]

Many Jews consider Christianity to be diametrically opposed to Judaism. As if they are polar opposites.

Is this real? If anything, I would consider a poletheist, idol worshipping faith, like Hunduism, to be truly the opposite of Judaism.

It seems to me that someone raised Jewish who had a Jewish education in a predominantly Christian society would already have a lot of insights comparing Judaism to Christianity and wouldn't need to throw out the question. Particularly to an audience that's generally skeptical of all religion.

[GreyICE]

I tap two swamps and cast Raise Thread!

[Darth Rotor]

Christianity is a Jewish sect - the most popular Jewish sect. It is due to its popularity that it isn't generally called a Jewish sect.
If you want to go down that path, Pauline Christianity is the ultimate Jewish False Flag Operation/Plot/Conspiracy. Its greatest success came when the Roman Emperor Constantine adopted Christianity as the official Imperial Religion.

The NWO got nuthin' on Saul of Tarsus.

On a more serious note, Christianity may have started as a divergent form of Roman era Judaism, but it can no longer be so considered. The core doctrinal clash regarding the divinity of Jesus Christ is an insurmountable difference, and is the best example of the sundering between the two religions. Furthermore, its assimilation of a variety of other pagan practices (see Easter for a fine example) is a continuation of the divergence that makes the distinction worth making, as is the discarding of the practice of circumcision.

That's just a few salient doctrinal differences.

Otherwise, why not call Islam Judaism? It shares a common root.

Segue to the root and tree comment: check out the extended family tree in Kingdom animalia.

A human being is not a lemming. There are enough differences to make a distinction.

DR

[Egg]

Anyone who holds an absolute ideology will assume everyone else is the polar opposite of themselves.
"Us vs. Them" is a very pervasive mentality, and tricky to override. But, the sooner everyone does, the sooner we can have some peace on this planet, for once!

Well, I'm with you.
But how are we going to convince them?

:D I thought that worth a nomination.

[Complexity]

No.

They're both woo.

[This Guy]

No. Its not as simple as that.

It seems to me that Christianity radically re-interprated the Jewish holy books to show that Jesus was the Messiah that had been anticipated by the prophets. Christianity also added in some new revelations and rules for living and rejected some of the old ones.

In my opinion, the amount of new revelations are too great to simply conclude that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Testament (as the Jews for Jesus seem to do) but the religion is certainly based on Judaism.

This is not to say that either is correct (or both or neither) and these are just my opinions. One thing I don't know much about is what mainstream Jews expect the Messiah will be like when he comes (or even if they still expect him to show up) - will he bring new revelations or simply fulfill the existing revelations about what to expect.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

I can't answer that directly, but the Old Testament does give some information on what the Messiah should be/do. Not enough time right now. I hope one of our more informed (and possibly Jewish) members will shed some light here. If not, I'll try to post some of what is in the Bible tomorrow.

[Meadmaker]

On a more serious note, Christianity may have started as a divergent form of Roman era Judaism, but it can no longer be so considered. The core doctrinal clash regarding the divinity of Jesus Christ is an insurmountable difference, and is the best example of the sundering between the two religions. Furthermore, its assimilation of a variety of other pagan practices (see Easter for a fine example) is a continuation of the divergence that makes the distinction worth making, as is the discarding of the practice of circumcision.

That's just a few salient doctrinal differences.



That's a very Christian view of what the important differences are.

They are very different, and the differences noted above are important, but there is an even bigger difference that it took me about five years of participation in the Jewish community to really get. The bigger difference is that those doctrinal differences aren't what matter.

I now understand the "faith vs. works" controversy far better than I ever did when I was a Christian. In Judaism, adherence to the Law is very important. That's "works". However, one has to ask why. Following the Law, the ritual elements that define the rhythm of Jewish life is almost like a meditation practice. It's goal is to make everyone aware of the presence of the divine, which is immanent in every thing. Belief (faith) isn't all that important, but awareness is, and awareness is achieved by ritual practice (works).

Compared to that difference, little bitty differences like who is the Son of God fall into insignificance.

[Beerina]

Jews don't believe in an afterlife or a resurrection? You just die, and you're dead?

And the OT messiah is a minor thing, not some major thing? And he had nothing to do with resurrections?

[This Guy]

Jews don't believe in an afterlife or a resurrection? You just die, and you're dead?

And the OT messiah is a minor thing, not some major thing? And he had nothing to do with resurrections?

The afterlife question was discussed here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3478303#post3478303) a bit.

From the link (and it's from a post I made):

From Job 14 -
7 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.

8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;

9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:

12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

This fairly plainly says that when a man dies, he's just dead. No raising up, no wake up call. Just death. Until the heavens be no more (in which case they can't hardly be raised up to heaven, since it will be gone).


The afterlife appears, to me at least, to be a Christian concept.

[This Guy]

I'm going to back out of my offer to post Biblical information on the Messiah. I'm just not going to have time to sort out the pertinent stuff.

I will again hope that one of our more informed, and possibly Jewish members will provide some input on what the Jews expect(ed) in the way of a Messiah.

Sorry :(

[GreyICE]

That's a very Christian view of what the important differences are.

They are very different, and the differences noted above are important, but there is an even bigger difference that it took me about five years of participation in the Jewish community to really get. The bigger difference is that those doctrinal differences aren't what matter.

I now understand the "faith vs. works" controversy far better than I ever did when I was a Christian. In Judaism, adherence to the Law is very important. That's "works". However, one has to ask why. Following the Law, the ritual elements that define the rhythm of Jewish life is almost like a meditation practice. It's goal is to make everyone aware of the presence of the divine, which is immanent in every thing. Belief (faith) isn't all that important, but awareness is, and awareness is achieved by ritual practice (works).

Compared to that difference, little bitty differences like who is the Son of God fall into insignificance.
So the major difference is that Jews actually follow their crazy, three thousand year old set of rules, while Christians want everyone else to follow their crazy, two thousand year old set of rules?

[cgordon]

All the Abrahamic faiths (Xianity, Judaism, Islam and Satanism) are but facets of the same stone. Common roots, all based on older mythologies, all pretty much hating each other ... like quarrelous sibs.

[Darth Rotor]

That's a very Christian view of what the important differences are.

They are very different, and the differences noted above are important, but there is an even bigger difference that it took me about five years of participation in the Jewish community to really get. The bigger difference is that those doctrinal differences aren't what matter.

I now understand the "faith vs. works" controversy far better than I ever did when I was a Christian. In Judaism, adherence to the Law is very important. That's "works". However, one has to ask why. Following the Law, the ritual elements that define the rhythm of Jewish life is almost like a meditation practice. It's goal is to make everyone aware of the presence of the divine, which is immanent in every thing. Belief (faith) isn't all that important, but awareness is, and awareness is achieved by ritual practice (works).

Compared to that difference, little bitty differences like who is the Son of God fall into insignificance.
The differences in doctrine and practice are two different discussions. Still worth pondering, so thanks for that insight.

DR

[gtc]

From Job 14 -

...
10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

Thanks for that, interesting to see what the older books have to say and I like finding the origin of phrases like 'give up the ghost'.

[Meadmaker]

Jews don't believe in an afterlife or a resurrection? You just die, and you're dead?

And the OT messiah is a minor thing, not some major thing? And he had nothing to do with resurrections?

Our Rabbi, when asked about this in Torah study, said that there were lots of teachings, but no definitive doctrine on the subject. Generally, there is some sort of hazy possible belief in something kind of like an afterlife, but not by everyone, and it just isn't a big deal.

In five years of fairly regular attendance at Jewish ceremonies, including funerals, I can't recall the subject ever being mentioned outside of that one Torah study.

I'll let others be absolutely certain about the second part, but certainly Mossiach (sp?) isn't spoken of very frequently, and wasn't very much like Jesus at all. I vaguely recall hearing that some sects teach that there will be a bodily resurrection at the time of the Messiah. I'll look it up.

[Meadmaker]

So the major difference is that Jews actually follow their crazy, three thousand year old set of rules, while Christians want everyone else to follow their crazy, two thousand year old set of rules?

Well, yeah. You could say that. To me, I think the bigger difference is in why the Jews follow the crazy rules, vs. why the Christians follow, or want others to follow, the crazy rules.

[GreyICE]

Well, yeah. You could say that. To me, I think the bigger difference is in why the Jews follow the crazy rules, vs. why the Christians follow, or want others to follow, the crazy rules.

I dunno, we're splitting hairs at that point. Me, I prefer to construct a logical basis for how I live my life based on 21st century reality, ancient papers, whether they date from 500 BCE or 50 CE.

[Mycroft]

I dunno, we're splitting hairs at that point. Me, I prefer to construct a logical basis for how I live my life based on 21st century reality, ancient papers, whether they date from 500 BCE or 50 CE.

That attitude is certainly understandable, but one wonders why you choose to join the discussion if you're not interested in the topic. Leave it to those who are interested.

[GreyICE]

That attitude is certainly understandable, but one wonders why you choose to join the discussion if you're not interested in the topic. Leave it to those who are interested.
The topic is "Are Judaism and Christianity opposites." I don't think they are, they both seem very similar to me.

I don't see how that's NOT relevant to the main topic.