StopSylviaBrowne - Montel: Susan and the MRI

[RSLancastr]

New article up:

http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/montel_susanandthemri.shtml
Montel: Susan and the MRI
Sylvia Browne gives some questionable medical advice.

My thanks to Claus and Eeney for their help.

[Lisa Simpson]

Note that, according to Montel, Susan had an operation for ovarian cysts. How would an instrument from an ovarian operation be left in her stomach?

My guess is that Sylvia says 'stomach' when she means 'abdomen'.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

You're very welcome, Robert :). Good job on the article!

Edit: "Your skin has grown around it"? Over an instrument allegedly left in her stomach? Maybe you should have gotten the doctor's opinion on that!

What I've come to notice more and more is the way Montel, as the host and non-"psychic", often hot reads for Sylvia. He might jump in and say something like "Not for Sylvia but for the audience, why don't you first tell us what happened?" Or he insists on providing background information for the studio and home audience- and Sylvia. Or insist that the person explain something or other during the reading.

He keeps proclaiming that she's never told anything before the show starts. Yes, because she doesn't need to- he tells her everything with the cameras rolling!

Case in point:

Williams: Where is Susan at? Where's Susan at? Please welcome Susan to the show. Susan, you just--why don't you tell Sylvia? Talk to Sylvia.
Susan: Hi, Montel. Hi, Sylvia. In August 2000, I went for a routine surgery, and two weeks later I have this sharp pain in my belly button. It feels like somebody's pulling it on the other side. I've been to 34 doctors and I've had five other surgeries, and nobody knows what's wrong with me. I was wondering, do you know what's wrong with me?
Williams: You--you know the surgery. She had an ovarian surgery for cysts. So I just--I say that.

He's doing the hot and cold reading for her!

[Tanstaafl]

Another excellent article, though I think it would have been helpful if your expert elaborated beyond "yikes".

I am a little conflicted about pointing out the hints in Sylvia's body language that she might be lying. It seems reasonable information to put out there, yet it would seem to be far from conclusive, and your caveat on that appears much later in the article. I think that's the first instance I have seen where someone might be able to argue you weren't being entirely fair to her.

[Senex]

It seems Sylvia is getting fatter, lazier, eviler and perhaps about to cross the all too generous medical advice line into illegality. A shame if she was arrested for giving unsound advice :rolleyes:

[rjh01]

I thought there would be a law against giving medical diagnoses for gain in the USA.

[Locknar]

New article up:

http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/montel_susanandthemri.shtml
Montel: Susan and the MRI
Sylvia Browne gives some questionable medical advice.

My thanks to Claus and Eeney for their help.In the immortal words of Dr. Shellock - "yikes!"

Great job RSL, Claus and Eeney!

[ExMinister]

Another great article!

Yikes is right. How unbelievably irresponsible for Sylvia to advise her not to tell the doctors what she suspected. Fortunately, based on Sylvia's accuracy rate, the likelihood of there actually being anything left in her body (Sylvia's diagnosis) is probably zero. Especially, as you pointed out, since the woman is complaining of a pulling sensation in her belly button region, which is somewhat at a distance from the ovaries (she could have guessed hernia or adhesions and had more of a chance of being correct). It would also be interesting to know the type of surgery, whether it was laparoscopic or open. At any rate, I sincerely hope SB stayed true to form, was totally wrong, and this woman suffered no harm as a result.

[Miss Whiplash]

Great article again. That screen shot of Sylvia and her lizard tongue is priceless. :)

[grmcdorman]

RSL, a minor grammatical correction: Analysis, third paragraph:And there are even certain metallic instruments made in such a way as to not be effected by magnetic fields"effected" should be "affected".

Otherwise, seconded. I work at a firm that develops imaging software for MRI scanners (and other imaging modalities). Even more basically, MRI is the wrong choice. CT would be a better choice, but even just a simple 2D X-ray would work. Most medical instruments are dense - metals - and very opaque to X-rays. Thus, the X-ray modalities - CT or X-ray - would show any instrument clearly. The lowest dose - a simple X-ray - is clearly the best choice here, not to mention cheapest. MR is not only potentially dangerous, as you point out, but is also the most expensive and time-consuming - and wouldn't give any information that a plain X-ray wouldn't.

Of course, if it was a soft item - a sponge, cloth - then it wouldn't show up that well in X-ray.

[LazyPint]

Possibly the best Sylvia Browne photo ever! Especially when compared to the "angelic" one you have elsewhere on the site!

Another interesting article. Keep them coming!

[liverleef]

Even more basically, MRI is the wrong choice. CT would be a better choice, but even just a simple 2D X-ray would work.

Of course, if it was a soft item - a sponge, cloth - then it wouldn't show up that well in X-ray.

I came here to say what you just did. An MRI to find an instrument inside her abdomen? Thats nuts. An abdomen xray would produce better results and cost a fraction of the amount of an MRI. Even if it was a sponge or something, an MRI wouldn't be the first choice.

[rjh01]

I would have thought that any item that could be left in a body after surgery would be easy to identify in an X-ray. After all if they did work out that a sponge was missing at the end of surgery how could they know where to look inside the body?

[Mr. Skinny]

Enjoyed it, Robert.

I'm kinda unsure about going on about the "tells". As you said, it's an unproven "science" so I'm not sure I'd have included it, given how you've managed to remain practically perfect in being the "Joe Friday" of web sites. I'm wondering if you should have gone that direction.

Can I suggest that you ask the good doctor to expand on his "Yikes!" comment to actually say the things that you believe he implied? Or perhaps you could contact another doctor who has credibility? I'd rather see more comments from a credible MD than talk of "tells".

Good job nonetheless.

ETA: There should be a comma after: January 31, 2002.

[alfaniner]

I agree about the misgivings about the "tells".

"What are ya? A body language expert now? A poker player??"

(Just anticipating the denials...)

[Empress]

Another terrific one, Robert. I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I laughed out-loud at the "Yikes" comment, since I had said precisely the same thing as I was reading the transcript. A surgical instrument left inside and she recommends MR? Sylvia's not only evil and hideous, she's an idiot! A triple threat.

And if Susan ever reads this, I would certainly be interested in hearing what happened regarding your condition subsequent to your appearance on the Montel Williams Show.

What a wonderful update that would be. I certainly hope she's okay.

Great job.

[RSLancastr]

My guess is that Sylvia says 'stomach' when she means 'abdomen'.Probably so. Just the sort of specificity you want from someone dispensing medical advice.

You're very welcome, Robert :). Good job on the article!Thanks!

Edit: "Your skin has grown around it"? Over an instrument allegedly left in her stomach? Maybe you should have gotten the doctor's opinion on that!Yes, by "skin" she probably meant tissue. Again, that specificity...

What I've come to notice more and more is the way Montel, as the host and non-"psychic", often hot reads for Sylvia.Yup. If she is psychic, why does she need for him to explain things?

And if you watch the video, note how after he makes sure she understands about the type of surgery it was, Browne nods sagely, as though to say "of course I knew that. I'm psychic." :rolleyes:

Another excellent article, though I think it would have been helpful if your expert elaborated beyond "yikes".It might have, but I decided to leave it as is. The article pretty much speaks for itself, and the "yikes!" underscored just how ridiculous her advice was.

I am a little conflicted about pointing out the hints in Sylvia's body language that she might be lying. It seems reasonable information to put out there, yet it would seem to be far from conclusive, and your caveat on that appears much later in the article. I think that's the first instance I have seen where someone might be able to argue you weren't being entirely fair to her.Perhaps. I had intended on expanding on and explaining it more, but decided it would clutter up the article. By the time I decided that perhaps it belonged in a separate article, I just wanted to put the article up, as I had tinkered with it far too long as it was, and I already had the odd photos that I felt I needed to explain, otherwise it would look as though I had just found the goofiest frames of her I could.

Might have been a bad call, but I'm living with it now.

It seems Sylvia is getting fatter, lazier, eviler and perhaps about to cross the all too generous medical advice line into illegality. A shame if she was arrested for giving unsound advice :rolleyes:I think she crossed the line long ago.

I thought there would be a law against giving medical diagnoses for gain in the USA.Looking into it, rjh!

Great job RSL, Claus and Eeney!Thanks, Locknar!

Another great article!Thanks, EM.

Fortunately, based on Sylvia's accuracy rate, the likelihood of there actually being anything left in her body (Sylvia's diagnosis) is probably zero.Agreed.

Especially, as you pointed out, since the woman is complaining of a pulling sensation in her belly button region, which is somewhat at a distance from the ovaries (she could have guessed hernia or adhesions and had more of a chance of being correct).Adhesions was the first thing that came to my mind.

Great article again. That screen shot of Sylvia and her lizard tongue is priceless. :)The video of it would do well with Jabba dialogue dubbed in. :D

RSL, a minor grammatical correction: Analysis, third paragraph:"effected" should be "affected".I almost always get that one wrong. Thanks.

Otherwise, seconded. I work at a firm that develops imaging software for MRI scanners (and other imaging modalities). Even more basically, MRI is the wrong choice. CT would be a better choice, but even just a simple 2D X-ray would work.Others had told me the same thing, but I decided that the possibiolity of it being a sponge/cloth would complicate the point, so I left it out.

Possibly the best Sylvia Browne photo ever! Especially when compared to the "angelic" one you have elsewhere on the site!:)

Another interesting article. Keep them coming!Thanks, LP!

I came here to say what you just did. An MRI to find an instrument inside her abdomen? Thats nuts. An abdomen xray would produce better results and cost a fraction of the amount of an MRI. Even if it was a sponge or something, an MRI wouldn't be the first choice.Thanks for the confirmation of that point, liverleef.

Enjoyed it, Robert.Thanks, Mr.S.

I'm wondering if you should have gone that direction.As I mentioned earlier in this post, I had mixed feelings about it as well. Ah well, we'll see.

Can I suggest that you ask the good doctor to expand on his "Yikes!" I think that if the doctor had wanted to expand on it, he would have done so.

ETA: There should be a comma after: January 31, 2002.If you mean after the "31", that is indeed more correct, but I've been formatting dates without the comma in most of the articles. It's intentional.

I agree about the misgivings about the "tells".Understood, thanks.

Another terrific one, Robert.Thanks, Empress!

What a wonderful update that would be. I certainly hope she's okay.As do I.

[Hawthorne]

Thanks for another great article RSL...I do hope that woman is alright.
I really wish more people would come forward and say that the medical "advice" they got from SB was a truckload of crap.

[Minarvia]

This article was quite interesting to me as I've often wondered if many of those on Montel follow up on Sylvia's advice.
That advice was shocking and I would think that at least a few people in the audience would be aware of the possible danger Susan could face if she indeed followed thru with the MRI. Perhaps someone spoke to her afterwards and warned her.
Regardless, I hope she is all right. With the traffic SSB gets perhaps she and others will come forward and let us know if they took Sylvia's advice and if so was it correct.

[tripi]

Great article again. That screen shot of Sylvia and her lizard tongue is priceless. :)


I LOL'ed at that pic. It was both hilarious and disgusting.

[PastBrowneFan]

For the rest of her Farewell Tour, those living in states that she is slated to "lecture" in should notify their State Attoreny General that she dispenses medical advice without a medical license.

That is what I am doing, as well as lodging a complaint with the Mayor and Prosecutor of the city here that she is coming to.

Wouldn't that make a great story for SSB; SB being lead out of a convention center in handcuffs for practicing medicine without a license!!!!!!

[Kilgore Trout]

Very nice, and scary too. Not sure what it's worth, but I liked the "tells" just for the picture of her licking her lips. Granted, that may not be an objective, rational reason, but I'm sticking to it.

[LostAngeles]

I...

What The **** Is Wrong With Woman.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

That advice was shocking and I would think that at least a few people in the audience would be aware of the possible danger Susan could face if she indeed followed thru with the MRI. Perhaps someone spoke to her afterwards and warned her.

I wouldn't count on it. :(

I LOL'ed at that pic. It was both hilarious and disgusting.

Wow, your sense of humor must be very different from mine! I think I threw up a little in mouth at that screenshot. :confused:

Very nice, and scary too. Not sure what it's worth, but I liked the "tells" just for the picture of her licking her lips. Granted, that may not be an objective, rational reason, but I'm sticking to it.

That's really funny- I thought it belonged in Pink Flamingos. :covereyes

Edit: I'd actually like to thank Claus myself because it was actually his mentioning it to Robert that lead me to look it up unasked.

It occured to me one day as I was sitting at my desk at work to try Lex-Nex for it and I actually thought I wouldn't find anything- it sounded like an urban legend similar to the bridge in Ohio and other outlandish claims of "One time on Montel, I saw-" that Robert has gotten.

Lo and behold, it was real! I sent it under "Do I have something for you"; I had to resist the urge to title it "Late Birthday Present".

[WildCat]

MR is not only potentially dangerous, as you point out,
I agree that an X-ray would be the best instrument for the job, but aren't surgical instruments made from stainless steel? If so, they would be unaffected by a magnet, yes?

Of course, all I really know about it is that magnets won't stick to a stainless steel refrigerator...

[LostAngeles]

Well, having had an MRI, they do allow me to take the key to the locker holding my stuff into the room. It looks like metal, but I don't know what it is exactly. That's never been a problem. But my jewlery and my regular keys and everything else has to stay in that locker. My jeans are ok, but they do give me a quick look over just to be sure.

[Niobe]

I'm amused by not telling the doctor anything. Surely the doc won't have pulled her medical records before her scheduled visit, or look at them afterwards. Not divulging your history in such a way will make the doc very weary about your motives and will probably lead them to think she's got an axe to grind with the medical establishment or has a need for attention from medical professionals.

[grmcdorman]

I agree that an X-ray would be the best instrument for the job, but aren't surgical instruments made from stainless steel? If so, they would be unaffected by a magnet, yes?

Of course, all I really know about it is that magnets won't stick to a stainless steel refrigerator...There are MRI scanners specifically designed to be used ... well, in surgery isn't quite the right term given the size. In any event, it's called interventional MRI. All the equipment has to be specifically chosen to be used in this scenario. Normal surgical equipment is not cleared for this.

Conversely, things like stents (http://health.allrefer.com/health/stent-info.html) and clips are a contra-indication for MRIs unless they're known to be safe (if I recall correctly, there has been at least one incident of a fatality due to a stent or clip).

So, it might not be affected ... but it's risky, and any competent medical professional would not allow an MRI. And, as mentioned, a simple Xray would suffice to identify any solid object left behind. Whether that would identify a sponge or similar soft object I'm not sure, but it wouldn't be that well identified by the MRI in that case either - and for that case an ultrasound might be appropriate.

Fundamentally, though, Ms. Browne is appallingly ignorant of the medical issues here, to the extent that her advice is actually potentially harmful.

[CFLarsen]

Fundamentally, though, Ms. Browne is appallingly ignorant of the medical issues here, to the extent that her advice is actually potentially harmful deadly.

Fixed.

[Lisa Simpson]

Um...where'd you get that quote, because that's not at all what I said.

[CFLarsen]

Um...where'd you get that quote, because that's not at all what I said.

I have no idea what happened!

....must be magic.

[Lisa Simpson]

Sylvia diddit, just to mess with you.

[CFLarsen]

I'm a marked man.

[Crundy]

Can I just say that I almost pee'd myself when I saw this picture:

http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com/articles/images/montel_susanandthemri_3.jpg

Nice :D

[desertgal]

And if you watch the video, note how after he makes sure she understands about the type of surgery it was, Browne nods sagely, as though to say "of course I knew that. I'm psychic." :rolleyes:


Fortunately, one doesn't have to be psychic to know that skin goes on the outside of the body, the stomach isn't the abdomen, and if you have a surgical instrument inside your body, one thing you don't want to do is get yourself next to a machine with a honking strong magnetic field.

Some of these people, I just want to whack them upside the head to wake them up.

Good article, by the way. That snake tongue is going to give me nightmares, though.

[Olowkow]

Cool pictures and movie of things stuck in the MRI coil. These guys were very brave, because pulling on the chair is also pulling on the magnet solenoid which is thousands of feet of hair thin wire on a ceramic form. Breaking it can result in a rapid quenching of the magnet and a possible explosion. At best, a large release of helium which can suffocate if not quickly vented.

[Bri]

I am a little conflicted about pointing out the hints in Sylvia's body language that she might be lying. It seems reasonable information to put out there, yet it would seem to be far from conclusive, and your caveat on that appears much later in the article. I think that's the first instance I have seen where someone might be able to argue you weren't being entirely fair to her.

I have to agree. Presenting weak evidence like the body language angle could be read as desperate or biased -- it would be better to just leave it out. I just think it dilutes the strength of the real evidence that's on the site.

The rest of the article presents some strong evidence of Sylvia's habit of dispensing (sometimes harmful) medical advice even though she's not a doctor. The point is about just how harmful this practice could be, yet it is obscured by some tangential conjecture about body language.

At the very least Robert should write a statement up front explaining why he includes the body language stuff in the article. But I think he should just remove it and replace the images with better ones from the video. The article is extremely convincing without the body language comments, but could have the opposite effect with them.

-Bri

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Oh look, some really creative and wonderful person thought of something no one so far has and took the trouble to upload it to YouTube, so everyone who wants to could see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2hrWBHdPts

Ok, it was me. :D Didn't use my current account, though, just my old and unused one.

[CFLarsen]

After the woman tells Sylvia that she has been to 34 doctors and has had 5 other surgeries, Sylvia says:

I'm telling you, nobody wants to take...the credit, I mean nobody wants to take the fall for leaving something inside. She's got something left inside.

Sylvia Browne is blaming a conspiracy of doctors for this woman's ailment.

Browne runs a multi-million dollar show that could well be called "It Is Never Your Fault, Dear."
Source (http://skepticreport.com/psychicpowers/sylviabrowne.htm)

Damn, I hate being right all the time... ;)

http://www.skepticreport.com/images/jref/sbrowneeyes.jpg

[Crundy]

lol, "Searching for the truth with Sylvia Browne".
You'll be searching for a while

[Almo]

I'm the others on the tells. I don't think they're relevant. Great article, otherwise.

My grammar nitpick:

Just how powerful an MRIs magnetic field

Need an apostrophe. :)

[Seismosaurus]

Small nit, but...

"There has been at least one reported death from an oxygen tank flying across a room and into an MRI device with such force that it struck and killed a young patient currently in the device."

This makes it sound like the poor kid is still in there now. "in the device at the time." or equivalent is the way to go here.

[RSLancastr]

Almo, Seismo, thanks for the corrections!

[Professor Yaffle]

Just another voice to add to the "probably best to keep off the body language tells in future". It's an area filled with pseudoscience like NLP. There are far more cues to lying in what people actually say, than their body language. In fact people are better at lie detection when they only hear a person, and worse at it when they see them as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/apr/21/weekendmagazine