Memphis Belle, the real story (yes, it's relevant)

[Bananaman]

Now, I'm sick and tired of reading rubbish about conspiracy theories about 9/11. After looking through the info available you have to be some sort of moron to still think 9/11 was an inside job.

What I'm trying to do here, in giving this link, is to show what the real world is like:a reality check. Yes, the voiceover is a bit naff at times but you can feel your stomach lurch when reality hits you in the middle.

I sense the troofers haven't ever had a reality check, nor have they any real sense of history.

I'd be interested in your views.

Here we go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn0lHROvqGM

Bananaman.

[plumjam]

Cheers,

good documentary. Especially after having seen the movie a couple of times.
(I had to smile at the obviously acted intercom voiceover-ing. Plus I don't quite see the link to 9/11) :)

[Bananaman]

(I had to smile at the obviously acted intercom voiceover-ing. Plus I don't quite see the link to 9/11)
Yesterday 11:02 PM

Thanks for the reply. :-)

Actually, this is my point. From where I'm sitting the intercom talk is real. When the pilot says, "don't yell on that intercom", that sounds real to me.I don't doubt they've edited it heavily, but there's enough there that makes me go "Oh God", these people are fighting for their lives.


Plus I don't quite see the link to 9/11)

Ah, yes, this is my point. This is the nub and jist. Reality. When these things happen it's chaos. Troofers seem to think everything goes like clockwork. It doesn't.

Bananaman (who will expand on this point if anyone will prod me on this further.)

[uk_dave]

prod

[Confuseling]

poke

[Bananaman]

poke

prod

OK, I'll expand.

Troofers, (now there's a word) seem to me, correct me if I'm wrong, to exist in a half-world of collaborations of coincidence. The real world doesn't work like that. Anything big goes tits up the moment you look at it or try to organise it.

Brace yourselves, I'm going to expand (something troofers have a reluctance to do.)

One of my favourite troofer arguments is when they resort to this:
"You mean 18 hijackers just took over 4 jets and flew them into buildings?"

Err, yes. What the hell did you think they did? (Didn't succeed in all cases but you know where I'm coming from.)

Then they have the nerve to apply all sorts of nonsense to their inanities.

RANT RANT RANT...

Calm down, Nana,

The point is...I do have a point...that if you were to try and organise such a bonkers scheme it would go wrong.

Have any of you ever worked on a project that involved more than a dozen people? If you have then in the first hour something you weren't expecting would go wrong.

9/11, if it's an inside job, would need rather more than a dozen people. IT'S A JOKE. Every idea the troofers come up with has been dismissed by sliightly brighter people.

What I'm doing by posting this link is showing how the real world works in, I hope, an interesting and educational way.

Bananaman.

[Björn Toulouse]

.... After looking through the info available you have to be some sort of moron to still think 9/11 was an inside job....

Bananaman.


Now you've done it - about 16 minutes into the video, they're gonna be calling "CHEMTRAILS"!

[MG1962]

At the Australian War Memorial they have a collection of com recordings for flights over Europe. The universal comment is "Dont yell into the coms" Apparently the way the speakers where back then, yelling distorted the voice speaking, so no one else could actually understand whats happening

[Confuseling]

I'm sold.

All of the projects just involving me go wrong.

The thing that's most striking for me is that if prima facie evidence of the conspiracy exists, then we kind of have to assume that the Chinese, Iranian, Syrian, Venezuelan, Cuban, North Korean etc governments are in cahoots with Bush, or they'd be crowing about it (even if on the sly, releasing dossiers on the net).

Not one dossier, anywhere = entire planet in on conspiracy / no evidence.

You decide.

[leftysergeant]

This certainly says something about the sort of man who will undertake any air mission, whether to fly through a storm of frag or a swarm of fighters to do some harm to an enemy. It takes a sort of discipline, a sense of purpose, that not everyone can muster. Some of these men who flew the Memphis Belle might not have been able to find it in themselves but for the need to live up to cultural expectations and a sense of honor.

I have heard it said repeatedly that more than one's own physical courage, the desire not to be seen as a weakling or a coward in front of one's comrades maintains the fighting spirit and good discipline. A fear of God plays a role as well, among those who believe.

So much for the idea of the hijackers being patsies. So much for any possibility of recruiting suicide hijackers from rouge elements of our own military. Where is the incentive? You can see in the faces of some of those who returned from the raid on Wilhelmshaven the lingering fear and the stress, knowing that they had it to do again, and that there was a chance that they might not come back the next time.

What must it be like for a man who knows that he will fly only this single, one way mission? What could motivate him? Money? Glory? Pride? I cannot get my mind around any of those as motives.

That leaves a fear of God and an absolute conviction that they would be doing God's will.

And there is always the fear that they may die without having accomplished anything. Why else would the hijackers of Flt 93 have run it into the ground, but that utter failure was as bleak a prospect as their own deaths?

The sense of inter-connectedness with each other, the sense of obligation to each other and the concern for those waiting at home drove both the men of the Memphis Belle and the passengers who joined the rebellion on Flt 93.

You'll just have to bear with an old soldier for despising those who think it unlikely that the Arabs would have given their lives in their fight, or that a group of accidental comrades could have staged a rebellion when they knew that they were certainly doomed in one case or possibly in another.

Nor have I much use for those who think that they would have had the courage and determination, by themselves, to have changed the course of history on any of those flights.

[gumboot]

Something that I've found is typically overlooked, but I think needs mentioning from time to time (and seems fitting in view of leftysergeant's post above) is that the passengers of UA93 were not the only victims of 9/11, nor the first, to realise they had to do something drastic.

An hour earlier, on United Airlines Flight 175, the passengers on the briefest of the 9/11 flights quickly determined that their situation was terrible, and they would have to do something about it. The final phone calls from UA175 passengers reflected later calls from UA93 - the passengers were planning to storm the cockpit.

I think there's two particular aspects of the flight of UA175 that may have helped these passengers to realise their fate so quickly (UA175 hit WTC2 a mere 17 minutes after being hijacked). Firstly, we know from the first call from UA175 that those on board knew both pilots had been killed. Secondly, UA175 was very close to its target, and thus the hijackers had to bleed off altitude very rapidly, thus UA175 went through an incredibly steep descent as it approached New York.

In any event, with only 17 minutes (UA93, by comparison, crashed 35 minutes after it was hijacked) of flight time, the passengers didn't have the time to organise any sort of revolt.

[leftysergeant]

You don't just throw a bunch of people into an OH BLEEP situation and expect an orderly, coordinated response that makes any sense or accomplishes much of anything. You also do not have them all bonding with each other to the extent that they will set egoes aside. The people on Flt 93 did, to some extent, form some sort of bond and a rough plan, because they had time to think about it. The hijackers had plenty of time to work that out.

[gumboot]

You don't just throw a bunch of people into an OH BLEEP situation and expect an orderly, coordinated response that makes any sense or accomplishes much of anything. You also do not have them all bonding with each other to the extent that they will set egoes aside. The people on Flt 93 did, to some extent, form some sort of bond and a rough plan, because they had time to think about it. The hijackers had plenty of time to work that out.


Actually I disagree. I think a time of serious crisis is the only time you get people pulling together and working things out, because people realise they need to put aside their petty differences or they're all in serious trouble.

[Mr. Skinny]

I've had a chance to glimpse the Memphis Belle in the restoration hangar. I hope to view the aircraft when restoration is completed an it's placed on display in the museum

[grmcdorman]

The full documentary (officially titled Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress) can be downloaded from http://www.archive.org/details/MemphisBelle in various high-quality formats.

The 1990 film The Memphis Belle is based on this documentary. (wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Belle_(film) )

[MG1962]

The full documentary (officially titled Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress) can be downloaded from http://www.archive.org/details/MemphisBelle in various high-quality formats.

The 1990 film The Memphis Belle is based on this documentary. (wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Belle_(film) )

***Grumbles*** I paid for my copy

[grmcdorman]

Well, I haven't figured out how to burn one of the high quality videos to a DVD yet, so you are ahead of me there. Mind you, I didn't try very hard.

There's lots of other interesting stuff at archive.org, by the way, such as the 1930s Flash Gordon serials, and early Sherlock Holmes films.