Is it just me or does "pragmatic" have two opposite meanings.

[EGarrett]

The study of "pragmatics" is subtextual meanings to what people say. For example, "we need an air purifier" if you want someone to stop smoking.

Meanwhile, the word "pragmatic" apparently means being hard-headed and practical. Which to me, means straightforward.

So what the heck is it? This is irritating me.

[mrbaracuda]

Both really, but it depends greatly on the point of view, so it really comes down to subjectivity. People call me a pragmatic often, although I don't care and enjoy being called that, heh, they mean I should relax sometimes or be open to something, I dunno - that kind of thing.

Have you looked up the word though? If I'm not mistaken it's more something along the lines of being practical. The hard-headedness is not wrong, but that's just when people call you a pragmatic in the second sense.

So yea, you're right and I'm too tired to make much sense right now I guess. :D

[a_unique_person]

How about "Quantum Leap"?

[bruto]

The study of "pragmatics" is subtextual meanings to what people say. For example, "we need an air purifier" if you want someone to stop smoking.

Meanwhile, the word "pragmatic" apparently means being hard-headed and practical. Which to me, means straightforward.

So what the heck is it? This is irritating me.I would say part of the discrepancy is in your assumption that being practical means being straightforward, at least in a social situation like your example. I think it's more apt to think of a pragmatic approach as "whatever works," as opposed to adhering to some theory or formula for doing things. If indirection achieves the result, then it's more pragmatic than acting in the belief that one ought to be straightforward, and failing as a result.

Philosophically, pragmatism is concerned with results or effects (specifically with regard to what things mean), and as such it seems to agree more or less with the idea of "pragmatics" in reading subtexts. In pragmatic philosophy, what a proposition means is what conceivable consequences ensue from its being true, just as what the example statement "means" pragmatically is found in what the speaker intends it to accomplish.

When William James wrote his popular essays on Pragmatism, he tended to use terms like "toughness" "cash value" and probably "hard-headedness" (I don't remember that one, but it would fit), but these were meant to characterize pragmatism, not to define it.

[drkitten]

The study of "pragmatics" is subtextual meanings to what people say. For example, "we need an air purifier" if you want someone to stop smoking.

Meanwhile, the word "pragmatic" apparently means being hard-headed and practical. Which to me, means straightforward.

So what the heck is it? This is irritating me.

I think you're looking at it in a somewhat personal way; being "practical" is "whatever works," which may not or may not mean "straightforward" depending who you're talking to. If you're the sort that would get offended at being told directly and straightforwardly to "stop smoking," then being straightforward would NOT be effective.

"Pragmatics," in linguistics, is observational science. Let's see what does work....

[AgeGap]

How about "Quantum Leap"?

Don't hear that often. People usually mean a massive leap from one state to the next, not some piddly electron movement.
In my mind I just substitute practical for pragmatic. To me it conveys the meaning better.
I thought only politicians said pragmatic.

[Fiona]

This caused me to look it up and I was really surprised:

Pragmatic
1. Relating to the affairs of a state or community
2. Busy, active; esp. officiously busy in other people's affairsi; interfering, meddling
3. Opinionated; dictatorial, dogmatic
4. Treating the facts of history in their connection with each other as cause and effect, and with reference to their practical lessons
5. Pragmatical
6. Belonging or relating to philosophical pragmatism

From Shorter OED

[bruto]

This caused me to look it up and I was really surprised:

Pragmatic
1. Relating to the affairs of a state or community
2. Busy, active; esp. officiously busy in other people's affairsi; interfering, meddling
3. Opinionated; dictatorial, dogmatic
4. Treating the facts of history in their connection with each other as cause and effect, and with reference to their practical lessons
5. Pragmatical
6. Belonging or relating to philosophical pragmatism

From Shorter OEDI'm surprised too. I never have seen the word used in the first three senses, and #3 I would have thought the opposite of the correct meaning. And, of course, #5 is uselessly tautological.

[Fiona]

To be fair there is a separate definition of pragmatical :)

[Wowbagger]

How about "Quantum Leap"? "Quantum Leap" usually refers to the leap in physics that took off, once relativity and quantum mechanics were understood. Quantum mechanics was a great "leap" in understanding the universe, even if the actual movements of quanta are itsy-bitsy.

To be fair there is a separate definition of pragmatical :) Let me guess: Pragmatical was defined as "One who is pragmatic" ? :rolleyes:

[Fiona]

Pragmatical
1. Pragmatic: now rare
2. Of, pertaining to, or dealing with practice: practical
3. Actively engaged; active, busy;methodical; energetic. b Experienced in affairs; expert; shrewd. Now rare
4.Self important; opinionated, dogmatic; doctrinaire; crotchety

2 the practical or pragmatical form of Christianity associated with the name of James (whatever that might mean) :D

[EGarrett]

I'm surprised too. I never have seen the word used in the first three senses, and #3 I would have thought the opposite of the correct meaning. And, of course, #5 is uselessly tautological.Indeed. Some of the above posts cleared up the issue...but I still don't like the word.

I think you're looking at it in a somewhat personal way; being "practical" is "whatever works," which may not or may not mean "straightforward" depending who you're talking to. If you're the sort that would get offended at being told directly and straightforwardly to "stop smoking," then being straightforward would NOT be effective.

"Pragmatics," in linguistics, is observational science. Let's see what does work....I would say part of the discrepancy is in your assumption that being practical means being straightforward, at least in a social situation like your example. I think it's more apt to think of a pragmatic approach as "whatever works," as opposed to adhering to some theory or formula for doing things. If indirection achieves the result, then it's more pragmatic than acting in the belief that one ought to be straightforward, and failing as a result.

Philosophically, pragmatism is concerned with results or effects (specifically with regard to what things mean), and as such it seems to agree more or less with the idea of "pragmatics" in reading subtexts. In pragmatic philosophy, what a proposition means is what conceivable consequences ensue from its being true, just as what the example statement "means" pragmatically is found in what the speaker intends it to accomplish.

When William James wrote his popular essays on Pragmatism, he tended to use terms like "toughness" "cash value" and probably "hard-headedness" (I don't remember that one, but it would fit), but these were meant to characterize pragmatism, not to define it.Both these posts helped. Thanks.

[Steven Howard]

This caused me to look it up and I was really surprised:

Pragmatic
1. Relating to the affairs of a state or community
2. Busy, active; esp. officiously busy in other people's affairsi; interfering, meddling
3. Opinionated; dictatorial, dogmatic
4. Treating the facts of history in their connection with each other as cause and effect, and with reference to their practical lessons
5. Pragmatical
6. Belonging or relating to philosophical pragmatism

From Shorter OED

I'm surprised too. I never have seen the word used in the first three senses, and #3 I would have thought the opposite of the correct meaning. And, of course, #5 is uselessly tautological.

I wasn't familiar with those definitions either, but I also wasn't surprised. I'm pretty sure the OED lists definitions in chronological order from oldest to most recent.