What was the Saudi role in 9/11?

[thatsmystory]

Excerpt of an interview with Sen. Graham:

In general terms it included the details of why we [on the committee] had raised suspicion that the Saudi government and various representatives of Saudi interests had supported some of the hijackers -- and might have supported all of them. My own personal conclusion was that the evidence of official Saudi support for at least two of the terrorists in San Diego was, as one CIA agent said, incontrovertible. That led us to another question: Why would the Saudis have provided that level of assistance to two of the 19 [hijackers] and not the other 17? There wasn't an adequate attempt to answer that question. My feeling was there wasn't anything to justify that discrepancy, and so there was a strong possibility that such assistance had been provided to others of the terrorists, but we didn't know about it. Then there's another question: If there was this infrastructure in place that was accessed by the terrorists, did it disappear as soon as 9/11 was completed? There's no reason to believe that it did.

Link (http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/09/08/graham/)

Author Joe Trento goes further and says Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar were Saudi intelligence agents. I followed up with Trento and learned that he relied on multiple sources to confirm their GID status.

After 9/11, an unnamed former CIA officer who worked in Saudi Arabia will tell investigative journalist Joe Trento that hijackers Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar were allowed to operate in the US unchecked (see, e.g., February 4-Mid-May 2000 and Mid-May-December 2000) because they were agents of Saudi Arabia’s intelligence agency. “We had been unable to penetrate al-Qaeda. The Saudis claimed that they had done it successfully. Both Alhazmi and Almihdhar were Saudi agents. We thought they had been screened. It turned out the man responsible for recruiting them had been loyal to Osama bin Laden. The truth is bin Laden himself was a Saudi agent at one time. He successfully penetrated Saudi intelligence and created his own operation inside. The CIA relied on the Saudis vetting their own agents. It was a huge mistake. The reason the FBI was not given any information about either man is because they were Saudi assets operating with CIA knowledge in the United States.” [Stories That Matter, 8/6/2003] In a 2006 book the Trentos will add: “Saudi intelligence had sent agents Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi to spy on a meeting of top associates of al-Qaeda in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, January 5-8, 2000. ‘The CIA/Saudi hope was that the Saudis would learn details of bin Laden’s future plans. Instead plans were finalized and the Saudis learned nothing,’ says a terrorism expert who asks that his identity be withheld…

Link (http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a97aandasaudiintelligence#a97aand asaudiintelligence)

CIA knew al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar attended the January 5-8, 2000 al Qaeda meeting in Malaysia. Did these supposed GID operatives know about the Cole attack in advance? Why would CIA trust these GID agents after the Cole attack?

[gumboot]

It wouldn't surprise me if Al Qaeda had double agents in Saudi Intelligence - they had double agents in US intelligence.

However it's completely illogical and nonsensical for Saudi Arabia to support the 9/11 Attacks.

[DC]

It wouldn't surprise me if Al Qaeda had double agents in Saudi Intelligence - they had double agents in US intelligence.

However it's completely illogical and nonsensical for Saudi Arabia to support the 9/11 Attacks.

AQ had double agents in US inteligence?
who where ?

[gumboot]

AQ had double agents in US inteligence?
who where ?

Ali Mohamed. He was a member of Egyptian Islamic Jihad (an affiliate organisation of Al Qaeda that subsequently merged with them) who was training US Special Forces soldiers at the Kennedy Warfare School and working for the CIA and as an informant for the FBI while simultaneously training Al Qaeda members (including Osama Bin Laden's personal bodyguards) and planning the 1998 Embassy Bombings, and stealing and copying military documents. He wrote the Al Qaeda training manual.

In October 2000, he pleaded guilty to five counts of conspiracy to kill nationals of the United States and officers or employees of the U.S. government on account of their official duties, to murder and kidnap, and to destroy U.S. property.

However he has never been sentenced, and his actual whereabouts now is unknown. It is alleged he is cooperating with US authorities, and that in exchange for his assistance he will get a light sentence.

[DC]

Ali Mohamed. He was a member of Egyptian Islamic Jihad (an affiliate organisation of Al Qaeda that subsequently merged with them) who was training US Special Forces soldiers at the Kennedy Warfare School and working for the CIA and as an informant for the FBI while simultaneously training Al Qaeda members (including Osama Bin Laden's personal bodyguards) and planning the 1998 Embassy Bombings, and stealing and copying military documents. He wrote the Al Qaeda training manual.

In October 2000, he pleaded guilty to five counts of conspiracy to kill nationals of the United States and officers or employees of the U.S. government on account of their official duties, to murder and kidnap, and to destroy U.S. property.

However he has never been sentenced, and his actual whereabouts now is unknown. It is alleged he is cooperating with US authorities, and that in exchange for his assistance he will get a light sentence.

However he has never been sentenced, and his actual whereabouts now is unknown. It is alleged he is cooperating with US authorities, and that in exchange for his assistance he will get a light sentence.
wow

[gumboot]

wow


There's quite a few aspects of Islamic Terrorism that I feel do not get enough attention. Stories like those of Ali Mohamed's are examples of just how sophisticated and serious a threat they are. Mohamed was trained by the US military and then used his training to teach the 9/11 hijackers how to seize an aircraft.

There's other fascinating snippets about Islamic Terrorism that are also often overlooked. The links to Nazism are the ones that personally fascinate me the most.

[DC]

There's quite a few aspects of Islamic Terrorism that I feel do not get enough attention. Stories like those of Ali Mohamed's are examples of just how sophisticated and serious a threat they are. Mohamed was trained by the US military and then used his training to teach the 9/11 hijackers how to seize an aircraft.

There's other fascinating snippets about Islamic Terrorism that are also often overlooked. The links to Nazism are the ones that personally fascinate me the most.

what i find is pointing out in his story, how long they already knew or atleast suspected him. but then still when he was caught in canada in a suspect action, they helped him, told the canadians that he is an FBI informant.

is the CIA/FBI really so incompetent. or is theyr incompetence just a coverup for something else?

they fail so often and never get blaimed or its mostly not even known, it looks like it has a system, not just incompetence.

[e^n]

There's quite a few aspects of Islamic Terrorism that I feel do not get enough attention. Stories like those of Ali Mohamed's are examples of just how sophisticated and serious a threat they are. Mohamed was trained by the US military and then used his training to teach the 9/11 hijackers how to seize an aircraft.

It's always important to remember that typical 'truther' claims rely on simplifying things to idiot level. If a building fell and it appears it was straight down then there can't possibly be a complex method at work, it has to be something simple like explosions + core = boom.

The same (perhaps even more so) goes for historical and complex political events, any subtleties are ignored in favour of broadly painting a particular side. Often this isn't the case, and it's always nice to read posts like yours here gumboot :)

[gumboot]

what i find is pointing out in his story, how long they already knew or atleast suspected him. but then still when he was caught in canada in a suspect action, they helped him, told the canadians that he is an FBI informant.

He was an FBI informant. The FBI had no idea he was also working for the CIA.


is the CIA/FBI really so incompetent. or is theyr incompetence just a coverup for something else?

The game of spycraft is incredibly murky, and it is virtually impossible to distinguish the trustworthy from the untrustworthy. US intelligence was desperate to get people into groups like Al Qaeda because they were finding getting into these organisations extremely difficult. They had spent decades fixated on the Russian threat.

They grossly underestimated their opponent, and never even considered that terrorist groups might be trying to infiltrate them.

In my experience groups like Al Qaeda are every bit as dangerous, sophisticated, and dedicated as the KGB was at the height of the Cold War.

I think even into the late 90's the CIA regarded them as a bunch of mindless religious nutjobs, and useful idiots, while the FBI just regarded them as a bunch of religious nutjob criminals.

[DC]

but isnt it very very strange, that after even posters on JREF know that AQ infiltrated the CIA and FBI. Even now Sibel Edmonds, is gagged. noone cares about her story.
wich includes an attempt to recruit here as a double spy for a foreign organisation....

and are there investigations?

[Architect]

but isnt it very very strange, that after even posters on JREF know that AQ infiltrated the CIA and FBI. Even now Sibel Edmonds, is gagged. noone cares about her story.
wich includes an attempt to recruit here as a double spy for a foreign organisation....

and are there investigations?

Just a minute, I'll get it ordered.

But what I suspect you mean is, "what, you already knew this?!?!" because, like all Truthers, you don't grasp that we might all have spent a bit of time in pesky areas like research, and understanding.

[DC]

Just a minute, I'll get it ordered.

But what I suspect you mean is, "what, you already knew this?!?!" because, like all Truthers, you don't grasp that we might all have spent a bit of time in pesky areas like research, and understanding.

understanding? are you sure? i bet you are :)

[WildCat]

Even now Sibel Edmonds, is gagged. noone cares about her story.
No, she's not. And her story is not believable.

[DC]

No, she's not. And her story is not believable.

oh she is not gagged?

and what exactly is not belivable in her story?

[WildCat]

oh she is not gagged?
Can you show a court order saying so? Didn't think so. There isn't any order that could keep her from revealing illegal conduct by the government, such an order would be illegal on its face.

and what exactly is not belivable in her story?
That a translator who only worked for the FBI for 6 months would have access to the nformation she claims to.

[DC]

Can you show a court order saying so? Didn't think so. There isn't any order that could keep her from revealing illegal conduct by the government, such an order would be illegal on its face.


That a translator who only worked for the FBI for 6 months would have access to the nformation she claims to.

http://www.justacitizen.com/articles_documents/State_Secret--Ashcroft_Declaration.pdf

[MarkyX]

http://www.justacitizen.com/articles_documents/State_Secret--Ashcroft_Declaration.pdf

That doesn't make her story true. Again, she was just a lowly FBI translator for 6 months.

[DC]

That doesn't make her story true. Again, she was just a lowly FBI translator for 6 months.

mmhhh

[uk_dave]

The 'truther' mantra is that the 'government' is lying.

And yet they never wonder if maybe those nice people who make youtube videos and create their own websites and make claims which only the fringe of the news media bothers to cover, might also be liars.......

[WildCat]

http://www.justacitizen.com/articles_documents/State_Secret--Ashcroft_Declaration.pdf
If she had knowledge of illegal activities Ashcroft's order would be illegal, and Edmonds could say all she wanted with impunity.

Edmonds knows nothing about 9/11 being an inside job. And she sure does talk a lot for someone with a gag order!

[DC]

the "conspiracy-deniers" mantra is that the "truth-movement" is lying.

[DGM]

http://www.justacitizen.com/articles_documents/State_Secret--Ashcroft_Declaration.pdf
That's not a gag order. That document basically says that although she no longer works for the FBI she still has to abide by the oath she signed when she did work there. Forum member Sabrina I'm sure could expand on this seeing how she works (or did) in the intelligence sector.
If she was under a gag order or was actually disclosing state secrets she would be in jail by now. Besides wouldn't you think the MSM would pay a little more attention to what shes saying?

[DC]

If she had knowledge of illegal activities Ashcroft's order would be illegal, and Edmonds could say all she wanted with impunity.

Edmonds knows nothing about 9/11 being an inside job. And she sure does talk a lot for someone with a gag order!

i never claimed she knows something about 9/11 being an inside job. afaik not even Edmonds herself claims that.

and we will see how free she can speak. she started to name names.

your trust in the "government" or judical system is amazing.

[Thunder]

until we have direct evidence of saudi involvemant, they are not involved.

[DC]

until we have direct evidence of saudi involvemant, they are not involved.

so we can say the same about Osama bin laden?

[DGM]

so we can say the same about Osama bin laden?
Sure why not. But there is direct evidence that Al Qaeda was involved and he is the head of that organization.

[Thunder]

osama bin laden took credit for 9-11, again and again. there is direct evidence linking the hijackers to osama and his al qaeda "cavemen".

[Pardalis]

http://www.justacitizen.com/articles_documents/State_Secret--Ashcroft_Declaration.pdf

I don't know anything about law, but I don't think that's a gag order.

Better ask Lashl again.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=97404&page=2

[MarkyX]

Do not use personal attacks to make your point.

[DC]

osama bin laden took credit for 9-11, again and again. there is direct evidence linking the hijackers to osama and his al qaeda "cavemen".

over and over again? i know one video wich was claimed to be found in afghanistan, where experts pointed out the wrong translation and that it most propably is not osama.

can you show me other video messages?

and according to Rex Tomb, chief of investigative publicity for the FBI.
“The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Osama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.”

[MarkyX]

“The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Osama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.”


What about Bin Laden's organization, Al-Qaeda?

You're picking at straws here.

[DC]

and what is the evidence linking AQ to it?

[thatsmystory]

until we have direct evidence of saudi involvemant, they are not involved.
Sen. Graham:

In general terms it included the details of why we [on the committee] had raised suspicion that the Saudi government and various representatives of Saudi interests had supported some of the hijackers -- and might have supported all of them.
According to Shenon, several staff members working under Snell, “felt strongly that they had demonstrated a close Saudi government connection,” based on “explosive material” on al-Bayoumi and Fahad al-Thumairy, a “shadowy Saudi diplomat in Los Angeles.”

Shenon recounts how Snell, in preparing his team’s account of the plot, purged almost all of the most serious allegations against the Saudi government and moved the “explosive” supporting evidence to the small print of the report’s footnotes. (The Commission, pp. 398-399)

Two commission investigators who were working on documenting the 9/11 plot, Michael Jacobsen and Raj De, argued that it was “crazy” to insist on 100 percent proof when it came to al-Qaeda or the Saudi regime. In the end, however, and with a publishing deadline looming, Snell’s caution and Zelikow’s direction buried apparently promising leads.

In similar fashion, 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry Report produced by Congress -- an entire chapter outlining evidence of Saudi and other state sponsorship -- were redacted.

Link (http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Page_2_FBI_documents_contradict_Sept._0228.html)

One of Edmonds' allegations is that FBI intelligence doesn't pass evidence to the criminal side when the evidence involves certain nations. In this context the 'Gorelick wall' could simply be an excuse to conceal a more reckless policy of protecting sensitive political relationships.

[DGM]

and what is the evidence linking AQ to it?
Have you ever heard of this name, 'Moussaoui'? He was put on trial you know, you may have heard of it.

[DC]

Have you ever heard of this name, 'Moussaoui'? He was put on trial you know, you may have heard of it.

sure i know his trial and so. and what exactly is the link and evidence?

[OldTigerCub]

and what is the evidence linking AQ to it?

Lots of it right here > Moussaoui Trial Exhibits (http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution.html)

[uk_dave]

the "conspiracy-deniers" mantra is that the "truth-movement" is lying.

Yes. Annoying isn't it?

Sadly, for the 'truth' movement, it is also true. Witness P4T, Scholars4Truth, David ray Griffin, Loose Change, Judy Wood, CIT, AE4Truth etc etc etc.

All liars, all believed without question by the faithful 'sheeple' of the 'truth' movement.

[Thunder]

why do Loose Toothers always insist on debating established fact?

Al Qaeda did 9-11, Bin Laden leads Al Qaeda. Case closed.

[thatsmystory]

why do Loose Toothers always insist on debating established fact?

Al Qaeda did 9-11, Bin Laden leads Al Qaeda. Case closed.

Was US intelligence given what amounted to a stand down order by the White House because Saudi officials were involved in supporting the al Qaeda operatives?

[DC]

Lots of it right here > Moussaoui Trial Exhibits (http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution.html)

alot stuff there, from id's to bank accounts and handbook from MS flightsimulator and such.

but what is exactly is the evidence linking to AQ?

[OldTigerCub]

alot stuff there, from id's to bank accounts and handbook from MS flightsimulator and such.

but what is exactly is the evidence linking to AQ?

This particular document kinda sums it up: Signed copy of Zacarias Moussaoui's Statement of Facts (http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/GX00001.pdf)

[DC]

This particular document kinda sums it up: Signed copy of Zacarias Moussaoui's Statement of Facts (http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/GX00001.pdf)

so that based on the words of that guy that now wants to reject his guilty plea? doesnt sound like a credible source

[Patriot4life]

Just for clarification:

Is this statement of facts written and signed by Moussaoui, or written by a laywer and signed by Moussaoui?

[Sunni Man]

This particular document kinda sums it up: Signed copy of Zacarias Moussaoui's Statement of Facts (http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/GX00001.pdf)
I am sure it's acurate.

After all he was tortured and water boarded.

People who are subjected to torture always tell the truth and never make up lies just to make the punishment stop.

[DC]

I am sure it's acurate.

After all he was tortured and water boarded.

People who are subjected to torture always tell the truth and never make up lies just to make the punishment stop.

torture?

we talk here about the USA, not North Korea or Saudi Arabia.

[T.A.M.]

The role of Saudi Intelligence in 9/11 is an interesting one, for sure, but it does not, from what I have read, lead to anything more than double agents (ooh big surprise).

Pakistan was involved as well in this regard, I suspect. Does that shock you as well Dick?

Imagine a Bedunker suggesting that Pakistan and Saudi Intelligence had elements assisting Al-Aqaeda!!!

TAM:)

[bynmdsue]

After all he was tortured and water boarded.



You got something to back that up?

[DC]

You got something to back that up?

i guess destroyed tapes are not considered backup :)

[Pardalis]

i guess destroyed tapes are not considered backup :)

Have any evidence that those destroyed tapes involved Moussaoui?

[defaultdotxbe]

i guess destroyed tapes are not considered backup :)
nope, got any actual evidence?

[scissorhands]

alot stuff there, from id's to bank accounts and handbook from MS flightsimulator and such.

but what is exactly is the evidence linking to AQ?

Aanthanur, shouldnt you be busy on youtube comments?
You will have more success there, trying to influence the teenage audience.
The people here will eat you for breakfast.

[DC]

Have any evidence that those destroyed tapes involved Moussaoui?

i dont even have evidence that would confirm that those tapes ever existed.

i would like to have your faith :)

[thatsmystory]

"Saudi security was actively following the movements of most of the terrorists with precision," Bandar, the national security advisor to Saudi King told the Arabic satellite network, Al-Arabiya, Thursday.

"If U.S. security authorities had engaged their Saudi counterparts in a serious and credible manner, in my opinion, we would have avoided what happened," Bandar said.

Link (http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/index.html)

It would be nice to know what he means by this.

[DC]

Aanthanur, shouldnt you be busy on youtube comments?
You will have more success there, trying to influence the teenage audience.
The people here will eat you for breakfast.

you eat CT's for breakfast?

Bon Appétit

[T.A.M.]

i dont even have evidence that would confirm that those tapes ever existed.

i would like to have your faith :)

Can't say the same for your paranoia...

TAM:)

[Pardalis]

i dont even have evidence that would confirm that those tapes ever existed.

i would like to have your faith :)

Uh?

Your quarrel was that those tapes were destroyed but now you say they never existed in the first place?

And how does this relate to Moussaoui again?

[thatsmystory]

The role of Saudi Intelligence in 9/11 is an interesting one, for sure, but it does not, from what I have read, lead to anything more than double agents (ooh big surprise).

Pakistan was involved as well in this regard, I suspect. Does that shock you as well Dick?

Imagine a Bedunker suggesting that Pakistan and Saudi Intelligence had elements assisting Al-Aqaeda!!!

TAM:)
The same (possible) double agents were associated with Cole plotters. It would be nice to know how double agents associated with a terrorist attack were able to participate in another more deadly terrorist attack almost a year later.

[DC]

is it paranoid to be skeptical against governments that already lied so often in the past?

[defaultdotxbe]

i dont even have evidence that would confirm that those tapes ever existed.

i would like to have your faith :)
this is definitely not a place to ask people to "have faith"

[Pardalis]

is it paranoid to be skeptical against governments that already lied so often in the past?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

You can be more inclined to distrust them, but that doesn't mean that they lie all the time.

[DC]

Uh?

Your quarrel was that those tapes were destroyed but now you say they never existed in the first place?

And how does this relate to Moussaoui again?

i did say the tapes never existet?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I know I'm not a moderator, but can you guys stop the sniping? This could be an interesting and informative thread, but the noise from all the potshots and derailments is distracting.

I don't particularly care if the resident truthers continue with that tactic, because that's what every one has come to expect--they rarely have anything of substance to contribute and can be safely ignored (see: Dicatator Cheney's posts)--but the rest of you are better than this.

[Pardalis]

i did say the tapes never existet?

Stop obfuscating.

[DC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

You can be more inclined to distrust them, but that doesn't mean that they lie all the time.

no sure not, and i dont say they always lie. but in some cases they do.

[defaultdotxbe]

Uh?

Your quarrel was that those tapes were destroyed but now you say they never existed in the first place?

And how does this relate to Moussaoui again?
i think hes saying he has no evidence, so he wants us to believe him on blind faith

[DC]

i think hes saying he has no evidence, so he wants us to believe him on blind faith

i guess you all applied to that 1 million paranormal challange, as alot of you seem to think they know what others think :)

[defaultdotxbe]

i guess you all applied to that 1 million paranormal challange, as alot of you seem to think they know what others think :)
where did i say i know what you think? i was stating what I think you are saying, i dont think i can win the million for knowing my own opinions

[MarkyX]

is it paranoid to be skeptical against governments that already lied so often in the past?

Problem is the information about 9/11 didn't come from Bush's mouth. It came from people who were at crash sites: scientists, investigators, clean up crew, and eyewitnesses.

[DC]

Problem is the information about 9/11 didn't come from Bush's mouth. It came from people who were at crash sites: scientists, investigators, clean up crew, and eyewitnesses.

no really, i thaught already that the witness report of a guy that claims to have seen the first impact in tv, and after second hit, he keeps reading books with kids. was not very usefull indeed.

[uk_dave]

no really, i thaught already that the witness report of a guy that claims to have seen the first impact in tv, and after second hit, he keeps reading books with kids. was not very usefull indeed.

You class people who say (however badly) that they saw it on tv, as a witness?

Or are you just trying to dodge answering the question posed?

[MarkyX]

You class people who say (however badly) that they saw it on tv, as a witness?

Or are you just trying to dodge answering the question posed?

He's trying to dodge and failing miserably.

[DC]

dodge what?

[WildCat]

dodge what?
The fact that what happened at the Pentagon, the WTC, and Shanksville comes from people on the scene, rescue workers, the airlines... no one held off on the news coverage until they heard what Bush said about it.

[chillzero]

Hey, can we roll this thread back on topic please? And I agree about the bickering - stop it.

[DC]

The fact that what happened at the Pentagon, the WTC, and Shanksville comes from people on the scene, rescue workers, the airlines... no one held off on the news coverage until they heard what Bush said about it.

sure it come from the scene, like the firefighters.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/articles/Article_5_118Witnesses_WorldTradeCenter.pdf

[Thunder]

9-11 was not an inside job. deal with it.

[WildCat]

sure it come from the scene, like the firefighters.
http://www.journalof911studies.com/articles/Article_5_118Witnesses_WorldTradeCenter.pdf
None of those firefighters think bombs brought down the towers.

And the Saudi government is also at war with al Qaeda.

[DC]

9-11 was not an inside job. deal with it.

when the saudis are involved, then indeed you cannot call it a pure inside job. and also ISI's money link is an indication of this. seems like an international job.

[DC]

None of those firefighters think bombs brought down the towers.

And the Saudi government is also at war with al Qaeda.

got any evidence that would backup that statements about NON of these firefirghters think bombs brought down the towers?

[chillzero]

got any evidence that would backup that statements about NON of these firefirghters think bombs brought down the towers?

There are several threads already addressing that topic. Please keep this thread on topic, and do not detail it further.

[Sabrina]

That's not a gag order. That document basically says that although she no longer works for the FBI she still has to abide by the oath she signed when she did work there. Forum member Sabrina I'm sure could expand on this seeing how she works (or did) in the intelligence sector.
If she was under a gag order or was actually disclosing state secrets she would be in jail by now. Besides wouldn't you think the MSM would pay a little more attention to what shes saying?

Everyone who works for the government signs a standard nondisclosure agreement, whether they have access to classified information or not.

It's been estimated that over 80% of all intelligence deemed useful is also unclassified, hence that qualification of whether it's classified or not. But in relation to Sibel Edmonds; if the information she is allegedly in possession of would pose a distinct threat to national security if it were revealed, she would be prevented BY LAW from disclosing it. The mere fact that she's spouting off about what she supposedly knows, however, tells me that she knows NOTHING. But IF (and I'm stressing that "if" as much as I possibly can) she did know something, and spouted off about it, she would be facing criminal charges up to and possibly including treason, depending on what the information was and how much of a threat it posed to national security.

If you want my opinion, however, she's essentially blowing smoke out of her [rule10]. She's probably upset that she didn't get recognition for something and is trying (in a very juvenile way I might add) to get the recognition she feels she deserves. If she knew something that would expose someone or some group in the government of committing a crime, however, she would not be censured; she would be hailed as a hero. The mere fact that she has not said anything of the sort beyond ambiguous references to something she hasn't even fully defined tells me, once again, that she's blowing smoke out of her [rule10].

Face it; your whistleblower can't even whistle.

[DC]

http://www.justacitizen.com/index.htm

she slowly starts blwoing the whistle

[Thunder]

she does not believe 9-11 was an inside job. hahahahaha!!!!

[DC]

she does not believe 9-11 was an inside job. hahahahaha!!!!

wich i never claimed :/ hahaha?

[Sabrina]

If she doesn't believe 9/11 was an inside job, why are you harping about her being a whistleblower (which she isn't, BTW)?

In order to be able to blow the whistle, there has to be an "illegal move", to borrow a sports analogy.

[DC]

If she doesn't believe 9/11 was an inside job, why are you harping about her being a whistleblower (which she isn't, BTW)?

In order to be able to blow the whistle, there has to be an "illegal move", to borrow a sports analogy.

prolly whistle blower isnt really correct. she joined after 9/11. but she claims to know important things that are covered up. and that someone tryed to recruit here as double agent or something like that.

something that should be investigated i think. no mather where it leads to, inside job or not.

[DGM]

prolly whistle blower isnt really correct. she joined after 9/11. but she claims to know important things that are covered up. and that someone tryed to recruit here as double agent or something like that.

something that should be investigated i think. no mather where it leads to, inside job or not.
She didn't join anything. She was more like "adopted". She loves the attention and after awhile she will be forgotten because she can't suggest to know something she doesn't forever.

[DC]

She didn't join anything. She was more like "adopted". She loves the attention and after awhile she will be forgotten because she can't suggest to know something she doesn't forever.

with she joined , i ment the FBI, she started working for them after 9/11 afaik.

so you think she is just making it up? dramaqueen? or even a sharlatan? she lies just to get some attention?

[DGM]

with she joined , i ment the FBI, she started working for them after 9/11 afaik.

so you think she is just making it up? dramaqueen? or even a sharlatan? she lies just to get some attention?
Basically, Yes! If she really knows of a criminal act no amount of gag orders would matter. Gag orders and such don't cover "illegal acts". She was in another country and she still didn't reveal a single thing.

[DC]

Basically, Yes! If she really knows of a criminal act no amount of gag orders would matter. Gag orders and such don't cover "illegal acts". She was in another country and she still didn't reveal a single thing.

so she failed UCLA ant the media, she even went before court with her bluff?

got any evidence for that? sounds interesting

[DGM]

so she failed UCLA ant the media, she even went before court with her bluff?

got any evidence for that? sounds interesting
Yeah I do. What's become of it?

[DC]

Yeah I do. What's become of it?

what evidence? show me :)

[DGM]

what evidence? show me :)
Show you what? How can I show you evidence that she has revealed nothing?

What has been the impact of what she has said to date? The answer to that question should tell you a lot about what she knows. As far as I have seen the answer is nothing (zero).

Off to Scouts so I can mold young minds. That should comfort you. Good night.

[DC]

Show you what? How can I show you evidence that she has revealed nothing?

What has been the impact of what she has said to date? The answer to that question should tell you a lot about what she knows. As far as I have seen the answer is nothing (zero).

Off to Scouts so I can mold young minds. That should comfort you. Good night.

oh so you have no evidence, ok.

and could the outcome till now also be a sign of how corrupted the system is already? i know just in paranoid CT nutty nobrainers fantasys.....

[DGM]

oh so you have no evidence, ok.

and could the outcome till now also be a sign of how corrupted the system is already? i know just in paranoid CT nutty nobrainers fantasys.....
I'm still not sure what you want evidence of. She's never revealed anything. She's hinted but that's about it.

OK, Convince me, What has she actually revealed? Please don't start with the baseless accusations and speculation I could do that. She claims to be an insider so what specifically has she claimed and how has she supported it?

[Sabrina]

To the best of my knowledge, she's CLAIMED that she knows something that indicates information was covered up during the investigations; nothing about what kind of information this might be or why it's important. She's preaching to the twoofers, so the merest hint of a coverup and they're slavering over her.

My opinion, she's an attention [rule10], plain and simple. By keeping up with the vague hints and occasionally releasing dribbles of ultimately meaningless information, she keeps their attention on her. If she truly knew something the government was covering up that was illegal, I highly doubt she'd be holding it back like this. Granted, I'm assuming she has a shred of integrity, which may be a humongous stretch in her case; I don't know. But I know for sure if it were me, I'd be shouting it from the rooftops; in fact, I'd be obligated to by the very regulations I swear by.

[thatsmystory]

After 9/11, an unnamed former CIA officer who worked in Saudi Arabia will tell investigative journalist Joe Trento that hijackers Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar were allowed to operate in the US unchecked (see, e.g., February 4-Mid-May 2000 and Mid-May-December 2000) because they were agents of Saudi Arabia’s intelligence agency. “We had been unable to penetrate al-Qaeda. The Saudis claimed that they had done it successfully. Both Alhazmi and Almihdhar were Saudi agents. We thought they had been screened. It turned out the man responsible for recruiting them had been loyal to Osama bin Laden. The truth is bin Laden himself was a Saudi agent at one time. He successfully penetrated Saudi intelligence and created his own operation inside. The CIA relied on the Saudis vetting their own agents. It was a huge mistake. The reason the FBI was not given any information about either man is because they were Saudi assets operating with CIA knowledge in the United States.” [Stories That Matter, 8/6/2003] In a 2006 book the Trentos will add: “Saudi intelligence had sent agents Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi to spy on a meeting of top associates of al-Qaeda in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, January 5-8, 2000. ‘The CIA/Saudi hope was that the Saudis would learn details of bin Laden’s future plans. Instead plans were finalized and the Saudis learned nothing,’ says a terrorism expert who asks that his identity be withheld…
I don't remember anyone on the 9/11 Commission mentioning that two of the alleged hijackers were actually Saudi intelligence agents. Trento's source indicates they were Saudi agents at the time they were sent to Malaysia...ten months before the Cole bombing.

If they were double agents that could explain the failure to prevent the Cole attack but for the same agents to be involved in 9/11 is hard to understand.

[defaultdotxbe]

I don't remember anyone on the 9/11 Commission mentioning that two of the alleged hijackers were actually Saudi intelligence agents. Trento's source indicates they were Saudi agents at the time they were sent to Malaysia...ten months before the Cole bombing.

If they were double agents that could explain the failure to prevent the Cole attack but for the same agents to be involved in 9/11 is hard to understand.
trentos anonymous source whose word we have to take at face value? no thanks

[thatsmystory]

trentos anonymous source whose word we have to take at face value? no thanks
I followed up with him. He stands by his sourcing (multiple sources used to confirm their GID status). Who is more trustworthy...Trento or Zelikow? I would say Trento.

If the US government wants to declassify all evidence related to al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar that would be fine with me.

[PhantomWolf]

I followed up with him. He stands by his sourcing (multiple sources used to confirm their GID status). Who is more trustworthy...Trento or Zelikow? I would say Trento.

If the US government wants to declassify all evidence related to al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar that would be fine with me.

Well even if he is standing by his source, the source is still anonymous and thus unverifiable.

Verified sources say that OBL wasn't ever an GID agent, though he did workvery closely with them and receive funding. While they requested him to do certain things while in Pakistan and Afghanistan (including not actually going into Afghanistan) OBL only ever did what they asked if it benefited him or his group. He was never beholdened to them nor activity worked for them. The close relationship with them did likely allow for routes into their ranks however, especially in a country where they already have a relatively extreme form of Islam.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Man... they don't make whistleblowers like they used. Unverified/anonymous sources need to provide verifiable information.

[T.A.M.]

is it paranoid to be skeptical against governments that already lied so often in the past?

No, it is paranoid to come to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job with out any HARD evidence to prove it.

TAM:)

[Sabrina]

Just to head off any inevitable comparisons....

Deep Throat was anonymous, but he provided leads to hard evidence that PROVED what happened during Watergate. What leads has this anonymous CIA source provided that has led to hard evidence of what this author is claiming?

[PhantomWolf]

is it paranoid to be skeptical against governments that already lied so often in the past?

No, but when you start to include the FBI, NIST, FEMA, the NYPD, the FDNY, the FAA, United Airlines, American Airlines, the BBC, NBC, ABC, the New York SE, the hundreds of winesses, every major structural engineer on the planet, most major demolition and/or construction companies, the engineering departments of Universities worldwide, random posters on the Internet, and the 168 countries that signed up to Interpol's hunt for those behind 9/11, into the plot as well, well then it is paranoia

[thatsmystory]

Man... they don't make whistleblowers like they used. Unverified/anonymous sources need to provide verifiable information.
I don't know why Trento's sources wouldn't go on the record. IMO, the GID account makes more sense than the so called watchlisting failures and 'Gorelick's wall.'

We can't prove it one way or the other because many of the documents are classified. Some people seem satisfied with bizarre CYA explanations. I'm not sure why.

What was the true nature of the interaction between the White House, US intel, the Saudi government, Saudi intel and al Qaeda? Seems to be a rather important question.

[PhantomWolf]

Well considering that in 1993 the Saudi GID were prominent in the expelling of OBL from Saudi Arabia and having his citizenship removed because of his troublemaking and his calling for the removal of the Saudi Royal family, I'd suspect that any link between AQ and OBL with the GID our Saudi Govt is very tenuous at best.