"Jersey Girls"

[DC]

right, they need to find out who they can hang first

read over their list of questions again, how many of them ask that a single individual be singled out? why do they assume that a single person was responsible for each decision they feel was made in error? because they want someone they can punish

OBL doesnt work because hes not in custody, i bet if we had caught and tried him right after 9/11 the jersey girls would have been happy, theyd have had their pound of flesh, but since we cant find OBL they need a more convenient scapegoat

atleast they want to investigate first :) speaks for them

[DC]

And that's entirely their prerogative.

But the question remains: How are the supposed unanswered questions of a very small minority of victims' family members even remotely significant?

The overwhelming majority of the family members are not asking these questions or demanding a new investigation, so why should special consideration be given to a very tiny percentage?

they mostly ask ppl in charge of some government bodys. also pre bush admin etc.

sure they cannot answer all the questions by themself. turned out that some of them seem to have Altzheimer , i cannot recall that sir.......

[defaultdotxbe]

atleast they want to investigate first :) speaks for them
them ignoring th emultiple confessions from bin laden himself and other members of al qaeda in favor of wanting to blame someone else also speaks for them

[tanabear]

so then you admit the question has in fact been answered?

So if the CIA knows that terrorists are in this country then what is the correct protocol for them to follow? Can they not notify the INS, FAA, State Department etc. ?

[DC]

them ignoring th emultiple confessions from bin laden himself and other members of al qaeda in favor of wanting to blame someone else also speaks for them

what is the jersey girls theyr theory? incompetence? lihop? mihop?

[defaultdotxbe]

what is the jersey girls theyr theory? incompetence? lihop? mihop?
like most truthers they bounce between several mutually exclusive theories based on whatever is convenient at the time

[DC]

like most truthers they bounce between several mutually exclusive theories based on whatever is convenient at the time

im sure you can backup your claim :)

[gumboot]

Personally I think the behavior of these women is more disgusting than the behavior of an ignorant Conspiracy Theorist.

They claim to have spent thousands of hours, endless days, a number of years, researching every single tiny detail of 9/11. They use their own authority on the subject to try and push their arguments and give themselves a sense of authority. They also cite the memory of their loved ones as their primary reason for needing to know "the truth".

And yet they're as abysmally wrong as an ignorant teenager in their parents' basement. Some of the "facts" they claim can be determined to be wrong after a few seconds online. Yet these women have had the advantage of talking in person to those directly involved.

If I was their dead relative I'd be ashamed of them.

[DC]

Personally I think the behavior of these women is more disgusting than the behavior of an ignorant Conspiracy Theorist.

They claim to have spent thousands of hours, endless days, a number of years, researching every single tiny detail of 9/11. They use their own authority on the subject to try and push their arguments and give themselves a sense of authority. They also cite the memory of their loved ones as their primary reason for needing to know "the truth".

And yet they're as abysmally wrong as an ignorant teenager in their parents' basement. Some of the "facts" they claim can be determined to be wrong after a few seconds online. Yet these women have had the advantage of talking in person to those directly involved.

If I was their dead relative I'd be ashamed of them.

got examples ?

[johnny karate]

they mostly ask ppl in charge of some government bodys. also pre bush admin etc.

sure they cannot answer all the questions by themself. turned out that some of them seem to have Altzheimer , i cannot recall that sir.......

Yeah, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here...

But I'm pretty sure you completely ignored my questions:

But the question remains: How are the supposed unanswered questions of a very small minority of victims' family members even remotely significant?

The overwhelming majority of the family members are not asking these questions or demanding a new investigation, so why should special consideration be given to a very tiny percentage?

[DC]

Yeah, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here...

But I'm pretty sure you completely ignored my questions:

why do you pull the "silent masses" on your side?
when you look at polls, you can clearly see that most ppl think they did not get told the full truth. and still , those wo actively protest and demand re investigations seem to be a minority. why are you so sure to know what those family members think, those that did not go public, not pro nor contra.
just cuase they dont go public doesnt mean that they are not supporting it nor does it mean they are against it.

i think the effort of the victims fam. members, no mather how many, is important. so many "debunkers" on the internet and media, that debunk all kind of theorys about 9/11. ppl that actively form a contra to the "trith movement" how many of victims fam. have, active and public, joined that contra to the "truth movement" ?

[BenBurch]

im sure you can backup your claim :)

All one has to do is point at you, child.

[johnny karate]

why do you pull the "silent masses" on your side?
when you look at polls, you can clearly see that most ppl think they did not get told the full truth. and still , those wo actively protest and demand re investigations seem to be a minority. why are you so sure to know what those family members think, those that did not go public, not pro nor contra.
just cuase they dont go public doesnt mean that they are not supporting it nor does it mean they are against it.

i think the effort of the victims fam. members, no mather how many, is important. so many "debunkers" on the internet and media, that debunk all kind of theorys about 9/11. ppl that actively form a contra to the "trith movement" how many of victims fam. have, active and public, joined that contra to the "truth movement" ?

Nice tap dance around my question.

Fact: Out of tens of thousands of victims' family members only a couple of dozen or so are "asking questions" or "demanding a new investigation".

The question to you is: Why should the opinions of an extreme minority be given any special consideration?

[Jonnyclueless]

Yeah DC we' too will just sit here and pretend that the majority of victims families all feel the same way as the Jersey girls but don't bother to participate with them. Just like the majority of the world thinks 9/11 was an inside job yet only about 20 people in the world at a time bother to show up to rallies.

Gosh, can't figure out why people put the silent majority as not being on the twoofer side. I have a bit more respect for the flat earth society. Not because they have bigger numbers than twoofers, but because they at least are honest with themselves and don't spend the majority of their time trying to convince people they are larger and more popular than they really are. And they don't dance around 100 variations of the same theory so as to sound like a parrot saying "I never claimed that".

[gumboot]

got examples ?


Yes. We've discussed their false claims numerous times on these forums. Learn to use the search function.

[DC]

All one has to do is point at you, child.

how does pointing at me show anything about the theorys of the Jersey Girls?

[DC]

Yes. We've discussed their false claims numerous times on these forums. Learn to use the search function.

Pressfor911truth is "theyr" docu, never saw a "debunking" to it, searchfunction did not bring up a single hit.

[Childlike Empress]

gummi thinks he has "debunked" all claims about NORAD's insufficient response on 9/11. See here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70300).

[Crungy]

gummi thinks he has "debunked" all claims about NORAD's insufficient response on 9/11. See here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70300).

Thanks for the link. In my two years on this forum, that was one of the best posts I've read! Great job Gumboot!

[johnny karate]

Nice tap dance around my question.

Fact: Out of tens of thousands of victims' family members only a couple of dozen or so are "asking questions" or "demanding a new investigation".

The question to you is: Why should the opinions of an extreme minority be given any special consideration?

Bump for Dictator Cheney, or any other CTer that wants to tackle the question.

[Walter Ego]

I wonder what the families of United Flight 93 who were trashed by Dylan Avery, DRG, Fetzer, and the execrable Killtown among other ‘truth seekers’ think of the 9-11 Truth movement? Have any of them come out for a new investigation?

[DC]

Bump for Dictator Cheney, or any other CTer that wants to tackle the question.

where did i demand special considerration for them?

[DC]

I wonder what the families of United Flight 93 who were trashed by Dylan Avery, DRG, Fetzer, and the execrable Killtown among other ‘truth seekers’ think of the 9-11 Truth movement? Have any of them come out for a new investigation?

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041026093059633

Derrill Bodley, father of Deora Bodley, passenger on Flight 93
Maggie Cashman, wife of William Joseph Cashman, United Flight 93
Lori, Jerry, and Beatrice Guadagno, sister and parents of Richard Guadagno, Flight 93

[johnny karate]

where did i demand special considerration for them?

You do so by implying that their questions merit importance.

So the questions remains: Why should the opinions of an extreme minority be given any special consideration?

[DC]

You do so by implying that their questions merit importance.

So the questions remains: Why should the opinions of an extreme minority be given any special consideration?

implying?
i didnt try to imply that. i think theyr oppinion counts as much as any other persons oppinion, not more not less.
i think also the oppinions of fam. members that come out against theorys or reinvestigations.

[johnny karate]

implying?
i didnt try to imply that. i think theyr oppinion counts as much as any other persons oppinion, not more not less.
i think also the oppinions of fam. members that come out against theorys or reinvestigations.

But their opinions demand action on the part of others. For you, or anyone else, to to claim those opinions warrant action, you are giving them more credence then the opinions of those that do not warrant said action.

In this case, we have a very small minority demanding action, while the overwhelming majority is not.

So why should anyone be compelled to respond to these demands?

[DC]

But their opinions demand action on the part of others. For you, or anyone else, to to claim those opinions warrant action, you are giving them more credence then the opinions of those that do not warrant said action.

In this case, we have a very small minority demanding action, while the overwhelming majority is not.

So why should anyone be compelled to respond to these demands?

i never came across a fam member that spoke out against a re investigations. i would also consider theyr oppinion.

[gumboot]

Pressfor911truth is "theyr" docu, never saw a "debunking" to it, searchfunction did not bring up a single hit.


There's at least one thread on it somewhere...

Why have you spelled their wrong and put it in quotes?

Here's a thread on "9/11 Press For Truth". (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63545)

I disagree, however, that "9/11 Press For Truth" is "their" documentary. "Press For Truth" was primarily inspired by and based on Paul Thompson's "9/11 Terror Timeline" and most of the documentary focuses on this. Incidentally it also contradicts its own central premise.

I would argue the documentary that is most "their" documentary is "In Their Own Words" and we have a thread discussing that film too (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=104665).

This second doco is much better at uncovering just how far gone these Jersey Girls are, because in it they push their own authority on the subject, immediately establishing themselves as more knowledgable than the rest of the public, yet they cannot even get the most fundamentally basic facts correct - such as when the FBI released photographs of the hijackers.

Now, personally I can't believe that four grown women, after 6 years of extensive research, don't know when the FBI released photos of the hijackers, especially considering they claim this particular point is so important.

As demonstrated in that thread, an eight year old child found the task of locating the FBI press release with the photographs to be very straight forward.

So, are these four woman suffering from some form of mental illness, or are they outright liars? Or can you offer an alternative explanation for this unfathomable level of wrongness?

CLE quite noticeably refused to address this point from me, and ran from the thread.

Perhaps you can explain it for me.

[johnny karate]

i never came across a fam member that spoke out against a re investigations. i would also consider theyr oppinion.

You're dodging my question.

Fact: A very small minority of family members are asking for a new investigation. The overwhelming majority are not.

Why should we concede to the demands of a small minority?

[DC]

You're dodging my question.

Fact: A very small minority of family members are asking for a new investigation. The overwhelming majority are not.

Why should we concede to the demands of a small minority?

Why should we concede to the demands of a small minority?

never demanded that :/

[DC]

There's at least one thread on it somewhere...

Why have you spelled their wrong and put it in quotes?

Here's a thread on "9/11 Press For Truth". (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=63545)

I disagree, however, that "9/11 Press For Truth" is "their" documentary. "Press For Truth" was primarily inspired by and based on Paul Thompson's "9/11 Terror Timeline" and most of the documentary focuses on this. Incidentally it also contradicts its own central premise.

I would argue the documentary that is most "their" documentary is "In Their Own Words" and we have a thread discussing that film too (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=104665).

This second doco is much better at uncovering just how far gone these Jersey Girls are, because in it they push their own authority on the subject, immediately establishing themselves as more knowledgable than the rest of the public, yet they cannot even get the most fundamentally basic facts correct - such as when the FBI released photographs of the hijackers.

Now, personally I can't believe that four grown women, after 6 years of extensive research, don't know when the FBI released photos of the hijackers, especially considering they claim this particular point is so important.

As demonstrated in that thread, an eight year old child found the task of locating the FBI press release with the photographs to be very straight forward.

So, are these four woman suffering from some form of mental illness, or are they outright liars? Or can you offer an alternative explanation for this unfathomable level of wrongness?

CLE quite noticeably refused to address this point from me, and ran from the thread.

Perhaps you can explain it for me.


thats the only thing they got wrong? not much .
anything else?

[LashL]

thats the only thing they got wrong? not much .
anything else?

You obviously did not read the linked threads. Why don't you educate yourself instead of engaging in such trollish behaviour?

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Dictator Cheney
thats the only thing they got wrong? not much .
anything else?

DC's English seems to be improving. Hmmm...

[DC]

You obviously did not read the linked threads. Why don't you educate yourself instead of engaging in such trollish behaviour?

im sure it also has other countertheorys :)

[SDC]

Hey DC, if you want to fake poor English, you'll need to aim at more consistency. Also, "theyr" is obviously bogus as a misspelling. Even the trollest troll would have noticed by now.

[johnny karate]

Why should we concede to the demands of a small minority?

never demanded that :/

DC, I'm quite familiar with the old CTer gambit of "just asking questions" to avoid actually defending a position.

However, my question never referred to a position you personally have assumed. I am referring to the position assumed by the movement you are championing on this forum. Consider yourself outflanked.

So the question remains:

Why should any special consideration be given to the Jersey Girls?

[LashL]

im sure it also has other countertheorys


Again: you obviously did not read the linked threads. Why don't you educate yourself instead of simply engaging in trollish behaviour?

[gumboot]

thats the only thing they got wrong? not much .
anything else?


*yawn*

You missed my point. I'm not surprised. It didn't have pictures.

[tanabear]

So, when they ask this question:

"Why didn't the CIA share vital information about the terrorists with the FBI?"

And they get the response that it was illegal before 9/11 for the FBI and CIA to share it, that is not a good enough answer? Here is where your research fails, because you do not delve into why it was set up that way. Maybe if you did that, you would better understand the answer and why it is the only answer they will ever get.

The answer that it was illegal for the CIA to pass along information FBI is an incorrect answer. It was not illegal. The famous "wall of separation" had to do with regulating the flow of information between FBI intelligence investigations and FBI criminal investigators and prosecutors. James Bamford, along with others, covered and looked into the issue. Here is a passage from his book, A Pretext for War:

The issue of whether Alec Station passed the critical Almidhar passport and visa photocopies to the FBI remains white-hot. "We have documents within the agency that said a photocopy of the passport was sent to the bureau," said a senior intelligence official. "The bureau says they don't have any record of getting it. It was sent from Alec Station-the operator who was working the case, the person who was organizing the whole operation. The point is we have the message that says that was done. What we say about it is there is no reason in the world that she would create a contemporary e-mail and then not do it."

But FBI officials familiar with the issue are just as adamant, and angry, that nothing was passed. "They refused to tell us because they didn't want John O'Neill in particular, muddying up their operation," said one in a December 2003 interview. "They didn't want the bureau meddling in their business-that's why they didn't tell the FBI. Alec Station worked for the CIA's CTC. They purposely hid from the FBI, purposely refused to tell the bureau that they were following a man in Malaysia who had a visa to come to America. The thing was, they didn't want John O'Neill and the FBI running over their case. And that's why September 11th happened. They have blood on their hands. They have three thousand deaths on their hands."

Congressional investigators came down on the side of the FBI. "The weight of the evidence does not support [the CIA's] assertion."
James Bamford, A Pretext for War, page 224.

Regardless of the claims made by the CIA and the FBI, it is clear that it certainly was not illegal for the CIA to pass along information to the FBI.

This also brings up a another issue, the difference between the debunkers and the Truth seekers. "Why didn't the CIA share vital information about the terrorists with the FBI?" The debunkers gave an answer. It was illegal to do so. They are satisfied with this answer, even though it is false. They believe that other people(i.e. the Jersey Girls) should also be satisfied with this answer as well. The debunkers are not capable of distinguishing between truth and falsehood, between correct answers and incorrect answers. As I wrote in a previous post on another topic. If I ask the question, "What year was Napoleon, Emperor of France born?" I receive the answer 1950. That is an answer, but it is the incorrect answer. Should I accept the answer or should I continue to research the issue? If I was a truth seeker I would do the latter, if I was a debunker I would do the former.

That is why we primarily find people of limited intellectual ability and curiosity making up the 9/11 debunking movement. As well, we primarily find the lovers of truth, knowledge and justice making up the 9/11 Truth Movement.

[jhunter1163]

Dibs on the Stundie for this one.

[Walter Ego]

Dibs on the Stundie for this one.

Do you mean this part?

That is why we primarily find people of limited intellectual ability and curiosity making up the 9/11 debunking movement. As well, we primarily find the lovers of truth, knowledge and justice making up the 9/11 Truth Movement.

I will second that one. :D

[jhunter1163]

Lovers of truth like Lauro Chavez, Torin Wolf, Kevin McPadden, William Rodriguez, David Ray Griffin, Aldo Marquis, Craig Ranke, the fine folks who added flashes and explosions to videos, and so on.

Do you know what all those people have in common, Tanabear? They all told (and in some cases are still telling) LIES to advance their agenda.

Some "truth" movement.

[16.5]

"That is why we primarily find people of limited intellectual ability and curiosity making up the 9/11 debunking movement. As well, we primarily find the lovers of truth, knowledge and justice making up the 9/11 Truth Movement."

Oh dear lord! that is hilarious! I can hardly believe you posted such gross nonsense.

Do you know Kevin Barrett: he wants to HANG people who disagree with him.

Do you know Waldo marquis and the rest of CIT? They are delusional anti-science fanatics.

Do you know Killtown? He is an immoral little internet thug who openly mocks the victims of 911.

Do you know Eric Hufschmid? He is a vicious little neo-Nazi, holocaust denier and all around slime bag.

What do they have in common?? they are all truthers.

I will not mention the mentally ill like Dr. Judy, Ace, Sophia Clunkity Clunk, and the rest.

Nice crowd you hang around, tanabear.