Sanal Edamaruku's black magic challenge...

[soulhill]

Sanal Edamaruku challenged a tantrik (black magician) to kill him with a powerful "Ultimate Destruction" spell on Live TV in India. Amazingly, the spell failed!

You may read the details here:

http://www.rationalistinternational.net/article/2008/20080310/en_1.html

[Gst]

I love how the guy is smiling the whole time.

[steenkh]

This is awesome.

However, I have to revise my thinking of the tantrik Pandit Surinder Sharma: I would have thought he was a fraud, but it turned out he is an idiot! He apparently believes in this stuff himself or he would never have accepted the challenge.

[IXP]

It makes me proud to be a rationalist, possessing the most powerful magic of all!

IXP

[RSLancastr]

I can imagine decades from now, Edamaruku dying peacefully of old age, and this tantrik claiming that his spells finally took effect...

[Whack01]

I was googling to see if i could find a streaming video of this but couldn't. However I did stumble across a somewhat thought provoking essay allegedly written by Edamaruku, I've never heard anyone take 'mother' Teresa to task before, but he apparently wrote an essay attacking her http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/mother_teresa/sanal_ed.htm
(http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/mother_teresa/sanal_ed.htm) I don't suppose anyone could provide context for the remarks he has attributed to her such as

"
According to Mother Teresa's bizarre philosophy, it is "the most beautiful gift for a person that he can participate in the sufferings of Christ". Once she tried to comfort a screaming sufferer: "You are suffering, that means Jesus is kissing you!" The man got furious and screamed back: "Then tell your Jesus to stop kissing."

"The suffering of the poor is something very beautiful and the world is being very much helped by the nobility of this example of misery and suffering,"

"

Although it wouldn't surprise me to find that her nobility has been exaggerated, he didn't cite sources and I'd like to find some context for the above quotes. I'd also like to know if there's anything to the alleged financial allegations as misconduct does not follow from his logic, but I'm uncertain of how to check on financial details.

**sorry for the possible derail incoming.

[RSLancastr]

I've never heard anyone take 'mother' Teresa to task before, but he apparently wrote an essay attacking herChristopher Hitchens wrote an entire book taking her to task: The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and in Practice (http://www.amazon.com/Missionary-Position-Mother-Teresa-Practice/dp/185984054X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206578756&sr=8-4)

[Whack01]

Christopher Hitchens wrote an entire book taking her to task: The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and in Practice (http://www.amazon.com/Missionary-Position-Mother-Teresa-Practice/dp/185984054X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206578756&sr=8-4)

mm I guess the saying don't judge a book by its cover may need to be modified to saying don't judge a book by its title before I purchase that.

I'll look into it but I doubt I'll read on a book written by a man with an agenda in order to source another man with a similar persuasion. A sexually insulting title like that aimed at a woman held by most in good standing smacks of sensationalism which tends not to lend itself to reasonableness or truthfulness.

Supposing I do end up reading it next month I'll probably end up having to source most of it, can you tell me if it includes citations that I could verify via the web or a local library?

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

It's only a small book, I read it in a couple of hours.

Can't remember if it has citations or not, but I also don't remember anything in there that was sensationalist or misleading.

[EHocking]

mm I guess the saying don't judge a book by its cover may need to be modified to saying don't judge a book by its title before I purchase that.

I'll look into it but I doubt I'll read on a book written by a man with an agenda in order to source another man with a similar persuasion.Just because it was written with an agenda in mind, does not necessarily preclude honesty and accuracy from the author.

Richard Dawkins, for instance, definitely has an agenda, but there is very little that he writes that you could dismiss as not being carefully researched.

[Lothian]

I am disapointed they couldn't come up with better magic words than "Om lingalingalinalinga, kilikili"

[Elvis666]

It's only a small book, I read it in a couple of hours.

Can't remember if it has citations or not, but I also don't remember anything in there that was sensationalist or misleading.

You don't think that title is a little over the top? :confused:

[Jekyll]

You don't think that title is a little over the top? :confused:

It's a pun. Why do you find it offensive?

[Elvis666]

It's a pun. Why do you find it offensive?

I don't find it offensive in the least. I also understand the pun. I also realize the title was meant to draw readers, and that is why he used it.

But it is scandalous, especially for anyone who has never considered that MT might be a little less of a saint than advertised. I'm not now nor have I ever been in that group.

[RSLancastr]

I'll look into it but I doubt I'll read on a book written by a man with an agenda in order to source another man with a similar persuasion. A sexually insulting title like that aimed at a woman held by most in good standing smacks of sensationalism which tends not to lend itself to reasonableness or truthfulness.Well, I would suggest reading it before you judge it.

Supposing I do end up reading it next month I'll probably end up having to source most of it, can you tell me if it includes citations that I could verify via the web or a local library?I have not read it, so cannot say. Take a look at it in the store, or iin a library (or use the "Look inside!" feature on Amazon.com) and you might get a feel for that.

If you do end up reading it, let us know what you think.

I am disapointed they couldn't come up with better magic words than "Om lingalingalinalinga, kilikili"Perhaps those are very ominous syllables in India.

Or perhaps they transalte to "Why, I oughtta..."

[steenkh]

But it is scandalous, especially for anyone who has never considered that MT might be a little less of a saint than advertised.
It would probably be more scandalous if the book did not advertise its contents, and the readers would get a shock when finding out.

[hipparchia]

I am also a bit dumbfounded my the magic words they used.

Isn't "Linga" supposed to mean phallus or something?

[quarky]

I'd bet someone else died at the same moment, somewhere.

very spooky

[FireGarden]

Trantic kills thread. It arises zombie-like from the grave!

I've been given this link at another site:
http://www.saisathyasai.com/baba/great-tantra-challenge-sanal-edamaruku-joseph-samkhya-surinder-sharma.html

It claims the whole thing was a hoax.

I'd like to debunk it, but can't seem to find any web site that mentions Pandit Surinder Sharma without mentioning the challenge. Does his name normally have a different spelling or something?

The rationalist article says Sharma had a TV show:
http://www.rationalistinternational.net/article/2008/20080310/en_1.html

India TV, one of India’s major Hindi channels with national outreach, invited Sanal Edamaruku for a discussion on “Tantrik power versus Science”. Pandit Surinder Sharma, who claims to be the tantrik of top politicians and is well known from his TV shows, represented the other side.

So you'd think he would have some web presence. (Maybe he did back in March 2008).

Also, can anyone confirm the following is said by the tantric?
Om Tryambakam Yajamahe
Sugandhim Pushtivardhanam
Urvarukamiva Bandhanan
Mrityor Mukshiya Maamritat

(It will be a while until I can view a video of the event).

The Sai Baba site claims it "is a well-known life-restoring mantra" and links to wiki, which identifies similar looking words as "Mrita-Sanjivini mantra because it is a component of the "life-restoring" practice given to the primordial sage Shukra after he had completed an exhausting period of austerity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahamrityunjaya

Can anyone identify any of the other mantras which were used?

[FireGarden]

This blog begins with what seems to be the same article as linked above:
http://sathyasaibaba.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/great-tantra-challenge-hoax-rationalist-international-india-tv-sanal-edamaruku/

But sathysaibaba adds this in one of the comments:

Sanal Edamaruku has subsequently stated that Pandit Surendra Sharma regularly appears on spiritual channels and claims that he was a close disciple and relative of late Dhirendra Brahmachari. His ashram is at 3318, Kucha Kashgiri, Sita Ram Bazar, Delhi 6 (which is not an ‘ashram’ per se because it is located in a commercial building that sells textiles and luggage – Aggarwal Agency is located at 3315 Kuca Kashgiri, Sita Ram Bazar, Delhi 6) and he gave some lectures at an astrologers conference in 2006.

If this is true, then it would appear that India TV and Sanal Edamaruku purposely embellished the claim that Pandit Surendra Sharma was India’s most powerful tantrik and black magician. He is practically unknown throughout India, let alone abroad. Since when did a practically unknown astrologer (of which there are thousands in India) become India’s most powerful black magician who advises top politicians?

[EHocking]

This blog begins with what seems to be the same article as linked above:
http://sathyasaibaba.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/great-tantra-challenge-hoax-rationalist-international-india-tv-sanal-edamaruku/

But sathysaibaba adds this in one of the comments:The Rationalist International article says that Pandit Surendra Sharma was the one that claims to be a black magician who advises top magicians.
Any Hindi speakers out there that could review the first tapes to confirm the conversation?

Also, you could email Sanal Edamaruku directly at the Rationalist International (http://forums.randi.org/www.rationalistinternational.net) site to get details on the Pandit.

[paiute]

I am disapointed they couldn't come up with better magic words than "Om lingalingalinalinga, kilikili"

Soften up your victime with some:
Meka Leka Hi Meka Hiney Ho!
Meka Leka Hi Meka Hiney Ho!
Meka Leka Hi Meka Chany Ho!
Meka Leka Hi Meka Chany Ho!

Then whip out the:
KLATUU...BARADA...NIKTO!

Follow with two or three:
OHWA! TAGOO! SIAM!

Finish the job with:
EYE YAM!
SOFA KING!
WEE TODD ID!

[FireGarden]

The Rationalist International article says that Pandit Surendra Sharma was the one that claims to be a black magician who advises top magicians.

The article says he "claims to be the tantrik of top politicians and is well known from his TV shows," which I take to be different to: "claims to be the tantrik of top politicians and to be well known from his TV shows." ie: only one half is the tantric's claim.

He doesn't seem to be particularly well known today -- except for this challenge. Maybe he had 15 minutes of fame immediately before this crash and burn.

Also, you could email Sanal Edamaruku directly at the Rationalist International (http://forums.randi.org/www.rationalistinternational.net) site to get details on the Pandit.

Thanks.
I've sent an e-mail, including a link to this thread.