Boomerangs in space...

[Wolfman]

From the Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/socialstudies):
In an unprecedented experiment, a Japanese astronaut has thrown a boomerang in space and confirmed it flies back. Astronaut Takao Doi, visiting the International Space Station, threw the stick after a request from compatriot Yasuhiro Togai, a world boomerang champion. "I was very surprised and moved to see that it flew the same way it does on Earth," the 53-year-old astronaut told his wife in a chat from space.I was always under the impression that the boomerang curved and returned to its owner because it is designed like an airfoil, and inequal air pressure on different parts of the boomerang cause it to turn.

However, this experiment seems to demonstrate that air pressure has nothing whatsoever to do with the phenomenon. Just curious...explanations?

[Corsair 115]

The Globe & Mail article is taken from a French new agency, and offers scant details of the story. My first question is this: did they do this inside ISS or while on a spacewalk? I'd have to presume it's the former, in which case, there is air inside the ISS.

[Gate2501]

From the Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/socialstudies):
I was always under the impression that the boomerang curved and returned to its owner because it is designed like an airfoil, and inequal air pressure on different parts of the boomerang cause it to turn.

However, this experiment seems to demonstrate that air pressure has nothing whatsoever to do with the phenomenon. Just curious...explanations?

This is made up.

The boomerang would not return in space. What force could possibly be acting on it to make it accelerate sideways and then back towards you? Magic?

[Gate2501]

The Globe & Mail article is taken from a French new agency, and offers scant details of the story. My first question is this: did they do this inside ISS or while on a spacewalk? I'd have to presume it's the former, in which case, there is air inside the ISS.

I figure that there wouldn't be room to get a full boomerang flight in the ISS. I dunno tho maybe there is some big room that I do not know about.

If there was room however, this would be plausible and frankly would not be surprising or shocking as the story characterized it.

[zooterkin]

There's nothing in that story that says it's outside that the boomerang was thrown. A quick google found this story (http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/03/space-boomerangs/). Not all boomerangs are large and wooden!
When the Space Shuttle Endeavour launches on March 11, Doi will be carrying a pair of paper boomerangs presented by Yasuhiro Togai, a 2006 world boomerang champion and space enthusiast from Osaka. Togai, who long wondered how boomerangs would fly without the downward pull of gravity, suggested Doi conduct boomerang experiments in space after they met several years ago. Doi agreed, and Togai taught him how to throw. Togai believes the space boomerangs will spiral up and away without returning, but he says he is looking forward to the results.

[Gate2501]

There's nothing in that story that says it's outside that the boomerang was thrown. A quick google found this story (http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/03/space-boomerangs/). Not all boomerangs are large and wooden!

Ahhhh yeah it all makes sense now.

I would think that without gravity tho, the boomerang might head up and return a little above you. /shrug

[Wolfman]

Ah...he threw the boomerangs inside the space station. They were testing to see the results of gravity on the boomerang's path, not air pressure. The way the original article was written, "a Japanese astronaut has thrown a boomerang in space", gave the impression this was done outside the space station. Makes much more sense now.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Ah...he threw the boomerangs inside the space station. They were testing to see the results of gravity on the boomerang's path, not air pressure. The way the original article was written, "a Japanese astronaut has thrown a boomerang in space", gave the impression this was done outside the space station. Makes much more sense now.

You're confusing him with Alan Shepard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Shepard#Apollo_14).

[mhaze]

The Globe & Mail article is taken from a French new agency, and offers scant details of the story. My first question is this: did they do this inside ISS or while on a spacewalk? I'd have to presume it's the former, in which case, there is air inside the ISS.
The lift vector of the wing/ cross section/boomerang cross section can be calculated without the gravity component. The airfoil would ideally be changed to account for this, likely simply a symmetrical airfoil (top and bottom the same or close to it). If this was not done, the thing should accelerate in the upward direction at a rate approximating G.

[CFLarsen]

I read it too, and was puzzled.

"So, what is it you want to do?"

"Well, I want to see if a boomerang returns when I throw it in zero gravity space."

"OK. Cool! ....where do you plan to do this?"

"Mmmm.....outside the space station."

"O....K. So, you want to throw an object which just might return - and if that happens, causing untold damage to a billion dollar space station?"

"...yeah."

"Sure! Go right ahead...."

It's one of those stories where it is good to have a male bovine manure detector. Of course he doesn't get to throw it outside the space station....like some news reports gave the impression of...

[zooterkin]

"Well, I want to see if a boomerang returns when I throw it in zero gravity space."

"OK. Cool! ....where do you plan to do this?"

"Mmmm.....outside the space station."

"O....K. So, you want to throw an object which just might return - and if that happens, causing untold damage to a billion dollar space station?"


Well, that's the bit that made it obvious to me that it had to be inside the space station. Given that it's an aerodynamic effect that causes the return, there's absolutely no way that the boomerang would be coming back if it was thrown outside the space station. Also, I think even today an EVA (space-walk) is not so common as to pass without comment. Having kids, too, I've also been in enough toy shops that I'm familiar with lighter weight alternatives to the traditional boomerang. :)

ETA: Here's a slightly longer version of the report (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i2n44DP0PaB-TdrZWh5J23O3wjsw)in the OP, plus a rather fuzzy photo, which may or may not show the boomerang. I notice that this does not say "stick", which the Canadian report does.

[mhaze]

I read it too, and was puzzled.
"So, what is it you want to do?"

"Well, I want to see if a boomerang returns when I throw it in zero gravity space."

"OK. Cool! ....where do you plan to do this?"

"Mmmm.....outside the space station."

"O....K. So, you want to throw an object which just might return - and if that happens, causing untold damage to a billion dollar space station?"

"...yeah."

"Sure! Go right ahead...."It's one of those stories where it is good to have a male bovine manure detector. Of course he doesn't get to throw it outside the space station....like some news reports gave the impression of...

If this is a valid worry, then we could land the Shuttle on the moon.:)

[CFLarsen]

Well, that's the bit that made it obvious to me that it had to be inside the space station. Given that it's an aerodynamic effect that causes the return, there's absolutely no way that the boomerang would be coming back if it was thrown outside the space station.

But that was what he was trying to test: If it really was an aerodynamic effect.

I can understand if someone is allowed to throw a ball bearing from the space station. We know what happens then.

But...an object that is supposed to return? OK, it's a long shot(!), but, on the other hand, it's a billion dollar space station.

People aren't allowed to even think of risking damage on that baby.

[zooterkin]

But that was what he was trying to test: If it really was an aerodynamic effect.

No; as I understand it, he was trying to test whether it was solely an aerodynamic effect, or if gravity played a significant part in the flight path.

[Terry]

From the Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/socialstudies):
I was always under the impression that the boomerang curved and returned to its owner because it is designed like an airfoil, and inequal air pressure on different parts of the boomerang cause it to turn.

The different amount of lift on the advancing and retreating arms causes a torque which tries to twist the boomerang from a vertical plane to a more horizontal plane. The gyroscopic effect of the spinning blades causes precession which curves the flight path around in response to this.

[CFLarsen]

No; as I understand it, he was trying to test whether it was solely an aerodynamic effect, or if gravity played a significant part in the flight path.

Quite possible.

[Loss Leader]

Imagine NASA agreeing to an experiment to throw a boomerang outside the space station.

[zooterkin]

Imagine NASA agreeing to an experiment to throw a boomerang outside the space station.

Exactly! Sorry if I'm labouring the point, but it just seems so obvious that what causes the boomerang to come back is aerodynamics that I can't believe anyone would think for a minute that it would work in a vacuum. Especially not someone at NASA who would have to give the OK for an EVA for the experiment.

[patnray]

Orbital mechanics are sometimes counter intuitive. If, while on a spacewalk, you threw something from the ISS, it may well come back when its new orbit intersects your orbit later... Nothing to do with aerodynamics though.

[fuelair]

I figure that there wouldn't be room to get a full boomerang flight in the ISS. I dunno tho maybe there is some big room that I do not know about.

If there was room however, this would be plausible and frankly would not be surprising or shocking as the story characterized it.
Makes no sense for small indoors - a spacecraft with enough room is going to be a planetary seeding/multi-generation ship. No air, nothing to make it turn, so..........:):confused::confused:

[roger]

I understand the point. Togai said he expected it would spiral up and away. Meaning he thought that the boomerang airfoil generated lift, and since there is no gravity to counteract the lift the boomerang would rise and continue rising. Meanwhile, the airfoils would cause it to curve it's flight, causing the spiral. Hense, the boomerang would spiral upwards, never returning (though certainly flying over) the thrower.

[Loss Leader]

Okay, here is a video (http://www.ss42.com/pt/paperang/paperang-video.html) of a paper boomerang flight. The size of the boomerang and the flightpath are surprisingly small. I think it's possible that there's enough room in here (http://www.star.le.ac.uk/edu/Root_folder/logistics_module.jpg) to try to throw the thing.

[Ron_Tomkins]

I read it too, and was puzzled.

"So, what is it you want to do?"

"Well, I want to see if a boomerang returns when I throw it in zero gravity space."

"OK. Cool! ....where do you plan to do this?"

"Mmmm.....outside the space station."

"O....K. So, you want to throw an object which just might return - and if that happens, causing untold damage to a billion dollar space station?"

"...yeah."

"Sure! Go right ahead...."

It's one of those stories where it is good to have a male bovine manure detector. Of course he doesn't get to throw it outside the space station....like some news reports gave the impression of...


That's funny but how can a paper boomerang cause any damage to a Space Station?

[TheDoLittle]

I could believe that NASA would allow a boomerang thrown outside the station. After all, they are talking about throwing paper airplanes at the Earth (http://www.physorg.com/news125811160.html).

[Loss Leader]

I could believe that NASA would allow a boomerang thrown outside the station. After all, they are talking about throwing paper airplanes at the Earth (http://www.physorg.com/news125811160.html).


Well, NASA isn't talking about it; the Japanese are talking about it. And it's widely agreed that the Japanese are nuts.

[Rocko]

No; as I understand it, he was trying to test whether it was solely an aerodynamic effect, or if gravity played a significant part in the flight path.

Yep, exactly.

[CFLarsen]

That's funny but how can a paper boomerang cause any damage to a Space Station?

For some reason, the news reports I read did not mention a paper boomerang. It was "throw a boomerang in space".

I'm sure it's an oversight from the newspapers...

[zooterkin]

For some reason, the news reports I read did not mention a paper boomerang. It was "throw a boomerang in space".
And, as I said, the original report mentioned in the OP chose to use the word 'stick' as a synonym for boomerang, adding to the confusion, even though it was not used in the agency report they had clearly based their report on.

I'm sure it's an oversight from the newspapers...More likely the result of a misunderstanding and inadequate research.

ETA: In my first sentence, I mean 'original report' in the sense of the report which sparked this thread. It was clearly not the original report of the boomerang chucking. (I'd also mention that, according to comments in the blog (http://www.pinktentacle.com/2008/03/space-boomerangs/)I linked to above, it was also not the first time that the experiment has been done in space, but the third.)

[EHocking]

For some reason, the news reports I read did not mention a paper boomerang. It was "throw a boomerang in space".

I'm sure it's an oversight from the newspapers...And in fact referred to it as "throwing a stick". I nearly made the same nitpick of your post - but reread the article quoted before (not) posting:D

[CFLarsen]

And in fact referred to it as "throwing a stick". I nearly made the same nitpick of your post - but reread the article quoted before (not) posting:D

Always wise! :)