Immunization/Autism link?

[wantobe]

Brian:

Recent reports seem to point to a possible link between immunizations and autism. I'm still not entirely convinced, but I don't really have a dog in the fight (because I have no kids, and I was immunized long ago) so I haven't paid much attention to the details. Do any of the recent studies change your mind (based on the episode in which you debunked the immunization to autism link)?

I know it's always dangerous to rely on anecdotal evidence, and parents who say their children were perfect before the shots, and now they aren't, can't always be relied on. But when there is apparently some agreement coming from "studies", you have to look at it a little more closely. Do any of the recent studies stand up to examination?

Thanks for the podcast, Brian; I look forward to each week's episode.

[Zep]

Perhaps you should do a search BEFORE you start yet another thread on a subject that has been done to death here many times over, including one just last week.

[briandunning]

No, I've never heard of any well-performed research that indicates any plausible link between vaccination and autism, and that might change my mind.

[Quath]

Perhaps you should do a search BEFORE you start yet another thread on a subject that has been done to death here many times over, including one just last week.
I usually agree that people should do a search to write to an existing thread if one is available. However, the post was geared towards the Skeptoid podcast, so it seems that it belongs in this forum.

Recent reports seem to point to a possible link between immunizations and autism.
It would probably be helpful to post a link to some studies you have seen that indicate this. That way everyone can decide if the study was done correctly and with minimal conflict of interest.

[TobiasTheCommie]

Brian:

Recent reports seem to point to a possible link between immunizations and autism. I'm still not entirely convinced, but I don't really have a dog in the fight (because I have no kids, and I was immunized long ago) so I haven't paid much attention to the details. Do any of the recent studies change your mind (based on the episode in which you debunked the immunization to autism link)?

I know it's always dangerous to rely on anecdotal evidence, and parents who say their children were perfect before the shots, and now they aren't, can't always be relied on. But when there is apparently some agreement coming from "studies", you have to look at it a little more closely. Do any of the recent studies stand up to examination?

Thanks for the podcast, Brian; I look forward to each week's episode.

Been done to death already:

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Thimerosal/MMR/Mercury
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In recent years many parents have noticed a correlation between giving their children vaccinations, and the childrens being diagnosed with autism.

The vaccination in question have either been MMR or a Thimerosal based children vaccination.

Thimerosal is a preservative which contains almost 50% mercury. And mercury poisoning does have a lot in common with ASD(Autism Spectrum Disorder).

This have lead to many outspoken groups and parents fighting against vaccination of their children.

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Vaccination is not a cause of autism. The problem here is that people see a correlation, and think it is causation. But that is not how the world works.

Children are given their child vaccination usually a bit before the signs of autism can be seen.

That is, if the child is given an MMR vaccination 6 months before the child is diagnosed with autism, that doesn't mean the MMR caused it. The child would have had autism all the time, it just isn't noticeable till a certain age.

If the child had eaten a candy cone 6 months before the child is diagnosed with autism, is that good reason to claim that candy cones causes autism? Of course it isn't.

If you don't make a distinction between correlation and causation you will end up with arguments like that. Arguments that have nothing to do with science.

I'll just hyperbole to prove my point, bear with me.

Many people eat ice-cream during the summer.
More people have heat strokes during the summer.
Thus we can conclude that ice-cream causes heat strokes.

It doesn't work like that.

A correlation can, at most, give a good area to scientifically study, which have been done. And these studies have suggested that there is no link between mercury and autism.

Both in Japan and in Denmark Mercury have been removed from vaccinations, and in both Japan and Denmark the number of children with Autism INCREASED.

That said, the amount of Mercury in Thiomersal is not enough to make a difference.

And if you eat a fish, you will get more mercury from a single fish than what you get from all vaccinations you will get through your entire life.

Also, just a little note. There is not, now, nor have there ever been, mercury in the MMR vaccine.

Ethylmercury is present in some vaccines in a compound called thiomersal. It is used in some vaccines to keep the vaccine free of contamination. It has been used in vaccines for over 60 years and has played an important role in maintaining vaccine safety. There is no thiomersal in MMR.
[1]

Here we have a study where they couldn't find any correlation between mercury and autism.

Abstract: Although mercury has been proven to be a neurotoxicant, there is a lack of data to evaluate the causal relationship between mercury and autism. We aim to see if there is increased mercury exposure in children with autistic spectrum disorder. We performed a cross-sectional cohort study over a 5-month period in 2000 to compare the hair and blood mercury levels of children with autistic spectrum disorder (n = 82; mean age 7.2 years) and a control group of normal children (n = 55; mean age 7.8 years). There was no difference in the mean mercury levels. ... Thus, the results from our cohort study with similar environmental mercury exposure indicate that there is no causal relationship between mercury as an environmental neurotoxin and autism.
[2]

CONCLUSIONS: Studies do not demonstrate a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, and the pharmacokinetics of ethylmercury make such an association less likely. Epidemiologic studies that support a link demonstrated significant design flaws that invalidate their conclusions. Evidence does not support a change in the standard of practice with regard to administration of thimerosal-containing vaccines in areas of the world where they are used.
[3]

CONCLUSIONS: With the possible exception of tics, there was no evidence that thimerosal exposure via DTP/DT vaccines causes neurodevelopmental disorders.
[4]

Autism, a neurodevelopmental disorder, may involve autoimmune pathogenesis. Since mercury is potentially a risk factor for autoimmunity, we conducted a study of mercury-induced antinuclear and antilaminin antibodies in autistic and normal children who had been pre-administered with thimerosal-containing vaccines. Laboratory analysis by different immunoassays showed that the serum level of these two autoimmune markers did not significantly differ between autistic and normal children. This finding suggests that the mercury as in thimerosal-containing vaccines is likely not related to autoimmune phenomenon in autism.
[5]


CONCLUSIONS: No consistent significant associations were found between TCVs and neurodevelopmental outcomes. Conflicting results were found at different HMOs for certain outcomes. For resolving the conflicting findings, studies with uniform neurodevelopmental assessments of children with a range of cumulative thimerosal exposures are needed.
[6]

CONCLUSIONS: The discontinuation of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Denmark in 1992 was followed by an increase in the incidence of autism. Our ecological data do not support a correlation between thimerosal-containing vaccines and the incidence of autism.
[7]


CONCLUSIONS: The body of existing data, including the ecologic data presented herein, is not consistent with the hypothesis that increased exposure to Thimerosal-containing vaccines is responsible for the apparent increase in the rates of autism in young children being observed worldwide.
[8]



Vaccines have turned many childhood diseases into distant memories in industrialized countries. However, questions have been raised about the safety of some vaccines because of rare but serious adverse effects that have been attributed to them. Pain, swelling, and redness at the injection site are common local reactions to vaccines. Fever and irritability may occur after some immunizations. Currently, no substantial evidence links measles-mumps-rubella vaccine to autism, or hepatitis B vaccine to multiple sclerosis. Thimerosal is being eliminated from routine childhood vaccines because of concerns that multiple immunizations with vaccines containing this preservative could exceed recommended mercury exposures. Family physicians should be knowledgeable about vaccines so that they can inform their patients of the benefits of immunization and any proven risks. If immunization rates fall, the incidence of vaccine-preventable illnesses may rise.
[9]

Need i go on?

UPDATE: Apparantly i do, so here is a bit more on mercury, and how to "cure" autism with chelation therapy (http://www.autismmyths.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=19)

Links:
[1] MMR the facts (http://www.mmrthefacts.nhs.uk/news/newsitem.php?id=39)

[2] Mercury Exposure in Children With Autistic Spectrum Disorder: Case-Control Study (http://www.bcdecker.com/pubMedLinkOut.aspx?pub=JCNO&vol=19&iss=6&page=431)

[3] Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and Autistic Spectrum Disorder: A Critical Review of Published Original Data (http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/114/3/793)

[4] Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Retrospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/lofref.fcgi?PrId=3051&uid=15342825&db=pubmed&url=http://www.pediatrics.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=15342825)

[5] Detection of Antinuclear and Antilaminin Antibodies in Autistic Children Who Received Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/lofref.fcgi?PrId=3030&uid=15316135&db=pubmed&url=http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=JBS2004011005607)

[6] Safety of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: A Two-Phased Study of Computerized Health Maintenance Organization Databases (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/lofref.fcgi?PrId=3051&uid=14595043&db=pubmed&url=http://www.pediatrics.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=14595043)

[7] Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence From Danish Population-Based Data (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/lofref.fcgi?PrId=3051&uid=12949291&db=pubmed&url=http://www.pediatrics.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=12949291)

[8] Autism and thimerosal-containing vaccines Lack of consistent evidence for an association. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/lofref.fcgi?PrId=3048&uid=12880876&db=pubmed&url=http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0749379703001132)

[9] Vaccine Adverse Events: Separating Myth from Reality (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/lofref.fcgi?PrId=5605&uid=12484693&db=pubmed&url=http://www.aafp.org/link_out?pmid=12484693)


Source: http://www.autismmyths.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=11[/QUOTE]

[wantobe]

I made a classic blunder: I heard a report on some news channel (probably local news) that trumpeted a recent case of a girl in Georgia being awarded some money because of a possible condition resulting from a vaccine, and didn't bother to read any actual reports from more credible sources. Namely, that despite the award, there is still no credible link between vaccines and autism (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=still-no-autism-vaccine-l, and http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22542677/ are two that would have been really easy to find.)

Sorry, guys, I should have applied a little more diligence before I posted anything. In my defense, I didn't say there was credible evidence, just asked if recent reports could be considered. Still, my fault for not looking deeper.