PZ Myers Gets Expelled....Again

[rebecca]

I was on a press teleconference with Ben Stein and the producers of Expelled (http://www.expelledexposed.com) today, in which the lines of all the media people were muted and we could only ask questions via email. PZ Myers managed to overhear the access code to get speaking privileges and burst in, demanding the crew stop telling lies and start answering questions. Hee-larious! You can read PZ's account here:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/i_always_aim_to_misbehave.php

What amuses me the most is that I happened to be taping the entire thing. You can hear the clip where PZ breaks in over on Skepchick: http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=1190

Sometimes I just love that man.

[Chupacabras]

And we love YOU! :)

[Chimera]

Oh, how hilariously inept those dorks are. I love it. :D

[Round Robin]

Awesome! Thanks for posting an audio clip!

[JoeEllison]

The one positive of stupid people is that they go out of their way to advertise the fact, over and over, often in a rather aggressive manner. Ben Stein and the producers of Expelled are no exception. Thanks for the links!

[Round Robin]

Comment #94 linked to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw&fmt=18

Funny as hell

[rebecca]

No problem, guys! I just updated that post with an additional clip, and might add more later. As of this moment though I'm having trouble seeing my monitor clearly and think I'm in need of bedtime.

Oh but Robin, I agree, I've been laughing about that video for the past hour!

[Round Robin]

Check out Christopher Hitchens in that video: an "I [Heart] [booze]" headband, and is that a blunt in his mouth?

That guy could rival MC Hawking

[Complexity]

That made me feel warm and fuzzy.

Sure, we're all dead when they gain power, but it is funny as hell today.

[HarryKeogh]

rebecca needs a splashy graphic and swoosh sound before the announcer says "a skepchick exclusive!". Great post.

Funny how one of the guys says "that's too bad [that Myers hung up the phone], I would have like to have gone over the points one by one" after Myers is told to do the "honorable" thing and hang up.

Where was that guy when Myers was on the line?

and that YT clip is hilarious. Also fun reading the comments about people arguing about whether it's pro-creationist or pro-science.

[Upchurch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw&fmt=18

Funny as hell
I've seen that. Freakin' hilarious.

[krelnik]

For those enjoying the Dawkins video but wondering about the lyrics, check it out at PZ Myers' blog:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/if_you_heard_my_voice_you_know.php

Someone transcribed the lyrics down in the comments (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/03/if_you_heard_my_voice_you_know.php#comment-809530).

[wahrheit]

Comment #94 linked to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw&fmt=18

Funny as hell

That's hilarious. Anybody know who made that?

Thanks for the link and recording, rebecca. :thumbsup:

[articulett]

A comment at PZ's blog:

Sign that it was made by the creationists/Expelled crew:

Lyrics.
Looks like it cost money to make.

Sign that it was not by the Expelled crew:

Whoever made the video knows what Richard Dawkins looks like.

That made me laugh. Of course, I think the lyrics are pretty damn impressive once you understand them... clearly a smart person. Richard is confused about whose side they are on:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2409,n,n

I've never met a bright creationist, so I say "ours"--

[fuelair]

The one about K. Bovine after it (-tard) is cool too!!

[wahrheit]

A comment at PZ's blog:

Sign that it was made by the creationists/Expelled crew:

Lyrics.
Looks like it cost money to make.

Sign that it was not by the Expelled crew:

Whoever made the video knows what Richard Dawkins looks like.

That made me laugh. Of course, I think the lyrics are pretty damn impressive once you understand them... clearly a smart person. Richard is confused about whose side they are on:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2409,n,n

I've never met a bright creationist, so I say "ours"--

Someone over there posted the lyrics, and passages like this

We might have lost at Scopes, beaten down by the dopes, and the stooges of popes, but in losin' we coped, becomin' more than we hoped, creationists slipped on the soap of their own slippery slope.

do not sound very pro creationism to me.

[Upchurch]

I'm looking forward to the next opportunity when I can use the line, "We appreciate your concern. It is noted and stupid."

[Whack01]

The condescension in that conference call is truly disgusting. I think myers stated a good argument, but wasn't given enough time to present counter examples to support his argument (examples of systematic murder prior to evolution) but then he really shouldn't need to give examples as they're so painfully obvious.

One thing I noticed that may not be obvious to persons who've never been involved in creationism, one individual can be heard saying 'aw I wanted to hear his argument'. Now I may be being too generous, but in my humble opinion, this guy was pretending to be condescending because he was afraid of the disapproval of his peers. I think he legitimately wanted to hear Mr. Myers viewpoint, but he chose his wording and did not stand up to the moderator for fear of disapproval. His ignorance is the price he's paying now, and his cause suffers further embarrassment that he could have prevented had he stood his ground. I think a good lesson in standing up for what you believe is right, can be found here.



/ I also think this verse is appropriate:

Proverbs 9:7-9 NASB
"He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself, And he who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself. Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you, Reprove a wise man and he will love you. Give instruction to a wise man and he will be still wiser, Teach a righteous man and he will increase his learning."

eta: don't assume this only applies to the conference call, it also bears relevance to the video to the video as amusing as it was.

[Olowkow]

The condescension in that conference call is truly disgusting. I think myers stated a good argument, but wasn't given enough time to present counter examples to support his argument (examples of systematic murder prior to evolution) but then he really shouldn't need to give examples as they're so painfully obvious.

One thing I noticed that may not be obvious to persons who've never been involved in creationism, one individual can be heard saying 'aw I wanted to hear his argument'. Now I may be being too generous, but in my humble opinion, this guy was pretending to be condescending because he was afraid of the disapproval of his peers. I think he legitimately wanted to hear Mr. Myers viewpoint, but he chose his wording and did not stand up to the moderator for fear of disapproval. His ignorance is the price he's paying now, and his cause suffers further embarrassment that he could have prevented had he stood his ground. I think a good lesson in standing up for what you believe is right, can be found here.



/ I also think this verse is appropriate:

Proverbs 9:7-9 NASB
"He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself, And he who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself. Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you, Reprove a wise man and he will love you. Give instruction to a wise man and he will be still wiser, Teach a righteous man and he will increase his learning."

eta: don't assume this only applies to the conference call, it also bears relevance to the video to the video as amusing as it was.

I've said it before indirectly, but we need more guys like you on this forum. Thanks for your reasonable approach to an argument. Your avatar name does not do you justice.

[Whack01]

I've said it before indirectly, but we need more guys like you on this forum. Thanks for your reasonable approach to an argument. Your avatar name does not do you justice.

lol thanks. I've used this name since about '94ish when I was getting kicked off AOL for calling people bad names.

Don't let me fool you with reasonableness though, I have my own share of 'woo'. I'm just not arguing it here because I've been so out of it for the last few years that I'm aware that I am currently intellectually unready to even present my woo let alone argue it coherently.


My woo has to do with the alteration of the refraction/diffraction of light in post flood genesis & how this affects the internal consistency of a creationist viewpoint. People simply read about the genesis flood and the rainbow and think 'ooo pretty colors', but don't take the passage seriously enough to consider the implications of light having ever not refracted as it currently does.

There are pros and cons for creationists in considering the refraction of light. However, the difficulty is that one still needs to have faith that altering the refraction/diffraction of light while preserving the rest of the natural order is actually possible. For example while altering the refraction of light could alleviate disproofs based upon the age of the earth via radioactive dating, it causes greater problems by implying important fundamentals which affect everything from radioactivity to DNA protein folding were once different. However, this alteration in refraction does take place after a cataclysm though doesn't it? so something could have happened :D

/note: the genesis rainbow can be read as altering refraction, and revelations *may* require an alteration in diffraction, as the earth is illuminated from a point source, though I'm much less confident about the biblical necessity of this.

eta: 'light having ever not refracted as it currently does' is not intended to say light didn't refract, only that the angles were different.
eeta: I'm not going to argue this here, as I said I'm intellectually unready to even present it properly, I'm just giving this as an example.

[Chimera]

Rudis, over at Cectic, with a timely and witty comic on the subject:

http://cectic.com/129.html

[Olowkow]

Don't let me fool you with reasonableness though, I have my own share of 'woo'. I'm just not arguing it here because I've been so out of it for the last few years that I'm aware that I am currently intellectually unready to even present my woo let alone argue it coherently.


Excuse the off thread comments...
Very few do "argue it coherently" I find. :) All I am saying is that it is refreshing to find the combination of an apparent fundamentalist and skeptic with a sense of right and wrong that is not based simply on some talking points of the DI.

You will be challenged forthrightly on this forum by some folks much more witty and well versed than myself, if you make claims about religion, so don't be deterred by that alone.

[Ichneumonwasp]

A comment at PZ's blog:

Sign that it was made by the creationists/Expelled crew:

Lyrics.
Looks like it cost money to make.

Sign that it was not by the Expelled crew:

Whoever made the video knows what Richard Dawkins looks like.

That made me laugh. Of course, I think the lyrics are pretty damn impressive once you understand them... clearly a smart person. Richard is confused about whose side they are on:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2409,n,n

I've never met a bright creationist, so I say "ours"--

I say "theirs". It's littered with symbols and actions trying to denigrate the four horsemen. But it's funny as hell.

The truly funny thing is that we love it. Making fun of Dawkins is something that we all embrace, in part, because we like the guy so much and no one is above gentle ribbing.

This looks like a pretty dang big backfire from what I can see. Thanks "Expelled" folks. Now I have more reason to live those guys.

[Upchurch]

I say "ours". The lyrics are all pro-science. The only anti-science themes are the way over-the-top imagery, which is mocking creationist stereotypes of scientists, and the arrogant attitude, which again mocks the creationist stereotypes as well as conforming to the norm of the rap genre.

The crudeness is belying a very subtle message. This was skillfully done.


...and I really want a Dancing Darwin screen saver.

[Ichneumonwasp]

I say "ours". The lyrics are all pro-science. The only anti-science themes are the way over-the-top imagery, which is mocking creationist stereotypes of scientists, and the arrogant attitude, which again mocks the creationist stereotypes as well as conforming to the norm of the rap genre.

The crudeness is belying a very subtle message. This was skillfully done.


...and I really want a Dancing Darwin screen saver.

These lyrics are all pro-science?

My name is D to the I to C to the K, Yeah I'm the Dickie D,
I gots my phd and comin' your way on the youtube to bust your world view
so just listen to me and don't you argue.

You see, this battle's been ragin' since Zeus was on the bottle,
between Science like Democritus and Faith like Aristotle,
who said the mover wasn't movin' like some magic trick but
that's no good logic, my posse is far too quick for this
religious sthick.

Cos science is the only way to know y'all,
you stand with me y'all,
or you can fall y'all so go ahead and take your pick.

ES: Yeah you tell him Rick ...
Darwin : Cos if you don't know me ...

RD: YOU DON'T KNOW DICK!!

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!

SH:On the shoulders of midgets we built up this machine,
DD:YEAH!!!
RD:Silence that watch... Paley
Growing stronger and harder almost daily, storming wilber by force as we framed the discourse until the science split in schismatic divorce then Darwin took to the seas to see what no one had seen, and ever since then we've been increasingly keen, they may never adore us, but they'll no longer ignore us, give it to 'em PZ hit these BLEEP with the chorus!!!

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
The Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's still smarter than you he studied biology!


Then there was Darrow dukin' it out with the straight and the narrow a ragin' bull in the ring, he did his thing, and took it on the chin like he was bobby de niro.
We might have lost at Scopes, beaten down by the dopes, and the stooges of popes, but in losin' we coped, becomin' more than we hoped, creationists slipped on the soap of their own slippery slope, what was impossible, improbable, is now wholly unstoppable .... the creationst foldup you hate us talking bull, don't you know that this Dick BLEEP frickin' unblockable ...

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
The Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's still smarter than you he studied biology!

Now the machine of our making, sees culture ripe for the taking Cos I'm the rapper thats rappin the .... unlike the Catholic, Muslim or even the Jew, believes that no God but science could ever be true, hell if I was dyslexic I'd even hate "dog" too.

Time to open your eyes, get yourself wise, the age of science has arised to be religions demise, and while you turkeys all cry, shouting why God oh why, I'll still be poppin' my collar earning my dollars in Allah.

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
The Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's still smarter than you he studied biology!

Chorus : Yeah he's the Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's smarter than you he's got a science degree!
The Dick to the Doc to the phd,
he's still smarter than you he studied biology!

Not to mention the whole surrounding story -- the machine that expels those who do not bend to the will of the scientific establishment; plus the dollar sign bling (materialists, got it), all under the control of mad scientist Dawkins. Most of the lyrics sound like creationist sterotypes of the scientific community to me -- the chorus is one big appeal to authority.

I don't know, I think it was produced by the other side, but I could be wrong. Skillful, yes. Don't underestimate your enemy. I suppose it could be from either side, just subtely ironic. I just tend to think it was from their camp and a complete backfire.

I get who most of the people are but who is the woman? Was that a woman? I can see Sam Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens, PZ Myers, and Dennett. Am I missing someone?

It's still funny as hell, though.

[dahduh]

These lyrics are all pro-science?

I would say this is a really excellent piece of satire; and with satire everything is fair game, so don't expect to find a lob-sided piece of propaganda. On the first viewing my reaction was rather negative, and I had to watch it a couple of times to appreciate its cleverness.


I get who most of the people are but who is the woman?

That would be Eugenie Scott. What I really want to know is WHO MADE IT? It sounds like Greydon Square, and the script is twisted enough to be something out of George Hrab (I mean come on, Eugenie Scott belly dancing?? And Darwin puking over the side...!) - but the animation would have required some smarts.

It's a pity Richard Dawkins' reaction was so snotty; but then I suppose being depicted buggering an androgynous school teacher in South Park must make you a bit gun-shy.

[Ichneumonwasp]

I would say this is a really excellent piece of satire; and with satire everything is fair game, so don't expect to find a lob-sided piece of propaganda. On the first viewing my reaction was rather negative, and I had to watch it a couple of times to appreciate its cleverness.


With that I fully agree. I guess the funny thing is that as satire it could have come from either camp, but it doesn't really matter. It's still hilarious no matter who did it. We could see it as from our side and then it is just a deliciously witty send-up of the stereotypes that creationists create. Or we could see it as from their side, and then it is just their stereotypes missing by a mile because it just made us all laugh. Out loud. Repeatedly. Or from someone on the sidelines. Doesn't matter, still clever.


That would be Eugenie Scott. What I really want to know is WHO MADE IT? It sounds like Greydon Square, and the script is twisted enough to be something out of George Hrab (I mean come on, Eugenie Scott belly dancing?? And Darwin puking over the side...!) - but the animation would have required some smarts.

It's a pity Richard Dawkins' reaction was so snotty; but then I suppose being depicted buggering an androgynous school teacher in South Park must make you a bit gun-shy.


Ah, thanks. Yeah, the animation was great. I can't access You-tube from work -- can't wait to get home and see it again. My wife wasn't interested but my kids loved it. We spent part of the weekend watching Randi videos and the four horseman interview, so they were primed for it.

[Upchurch]

These lyrics are all pro-science?
...yes. I didn't say they were tactful. I said they were pro-science.


Not to mention the whole surrounding story -- the machine that expels those who do not bend to the will of the scientific establishment; plus the dollar sign bling (materialists, got it), all under the control of mad scientist Dawkins. Most of the lyrics sound like creationist sterotypes of the scientific community to me -- the chorus is one big appeal to authority.
That would be creationist stereotypes I had referred to earlier, yes. The ones the video is spoofing.

[Ichneumonwasp]

...yes. I didn't say they were tactful. I said they were pro-science.



That would be creationist stereotypes I had referred to earlier, yes. The ones the video is spoofing.

Right, but it could just as easily have been a lame attempt on their part to spoof Dawkins and company and to suggest that they are expelling folks from academe when they don't toe the party line.

Personally, I think that is funnier because it misses the mark so widely.

[Skeptic Ginger]

The condescension in that conference call is truly disgusting. I think myers stated a good argument, but wasn't given enough time to present counter examples to support his argument .....Time to present? Surely you jest. :dl:

[Skeptic Ginger]

How did you get invited to the conference call, Rebecca? I am curious since they must know SkepChick is interested in real science.

[dahduh]

I've been doing a little reading around the pro-ID blogs about the "Beware the Believers" youtube video and came across a most extraordinary interpretation (http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/science-bloggers-hook-line-and-sinker/#more-3180). To summarize my understanding of what the blogger 'Dave' says, it runs like this:

"The video contains two messages, one obvious and the other subtle. The obvious message is about how arrogant science is, and that's for the creationists. The hidden message is for all the science bloggers, who are the only ones who know enough to spot it.

"The message is designed to get the ID message across, but to hook the science people into thinking the video is actually pro-science and get them to promote the video and take it viral."

In support of this thesis, the blogger notes that all the people on the ID blog have only latched onto the anti-science message, but that all the people on the science blogs pulled it apart and found the pro-science message. QED.

In other words, according to at least one pro-ID blogger, "Our people are so thick we can craft our propaganda to take advantage of it."

Wow. And all this time I thought these guys were thick. But now I see their subtlety is breathtaking.

[boloboffin]

The overt message of the rap video is feeding the image of an arrogant scientific viewpoint in the minds of creationists. There's even a nice subtle racism at work in casting the arrogant scientists as "wanna-be" rappers. This is not a pro-science piece at all. You might think that because the singers are using some of the normal pro-science statements, but it is the context they are being placed in that tells the true story. An "honest" scientist gets EXPELLED by the machine. Also, this lyric:

believes that no God but science could ever be true

That's full-out creationism idiocy put into the mouth of Richard Dawkins.

Points for packaging, but overall, this is meant to harm science.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Re the Dawkins rap video, I think the reason we don't know what side it's on comes from a couple things.

One, if you aren't into rap music, you may not know the typical message genre. That makes it hard to know if it is being sarcastic about "he's smarter than you, he's got a science degree".

And two, we are smarter than them so it's hard to see that as sarcastic. ;)

[Upchurch]

I started a thread in Politics (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=110641) that is somewhat related.

[MattusMaximus]

More Lying in the Promotion of "Expelled"

It appears that the promoters of the film are starting to play fast and loose with whether or not various screenings are canceled. Apparently, some people signed up for a screening on April 3rd in Tempe, AZ were notified that it was "canceled", when in reality the show went on. It seems this is a process to weed out "undesirables" from seeing the screening.

Despite the attempts to screen people from the screening, there were a few skeptical folks who managed to get into the Tempe, AZ event. Here's more on a recent Pandas Thumb entry:

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/04/telling-lies-fo.html

In light of this new information, if anyone on the forums was interested in going to see a screening, I would encourage you to contact the theater in question and ask them whether or not the screening is on. If the answer is "yes", then I'd encourage you to go anyway, but do so "under the radar".

Yet more lies. These people are despicable. :mad:

[KingMerv00]

I admit that I didn't know much about PZ Meyers before Expelled.

Apparently, he's gangsta.

[articulett]

Yep. Now you know the rest of the story.

(he's also a gate crashing movie hooligan)

[martu]

Yep. Now you know the rest of the story.

(he's also a gate crashing movie hooligan)

With a trophy wife.

[Juustin]

The phone call "gatecrashing" inspired me. I befriended expelled's myspace page so I could leave comments. I tried leaving one asking about why PZ was kicked out of the movie showing, but they're too smart, and set up their page so you have to get the comment approved before it shows up.

So after about 5 tries of getting a critical comment on their page to know avail, I gave up, and posted a comment wishing them a happy easter, with a nice "god bless you" picture. Sure enough, it got approved. Except, I hotlinked the pic from my own website, and then swapped the picture for something a little more entertaining.

Check it out while it lasts: http://www.myspace.com/expelledthemovement

Also, if anyone has a good banner for expelledexposed.com that shows the website, I can swap this pic for that one.

[Tanstaafl]

...So after about 5 tries of getting a critical comment on their page to know avail, I gave up, and posted a comment wishing them a happy easter, with a nice "god bless you" picture. Sure enough, it got approved. Except, I hotlinked the pic from my own website, and then swapped the picture for something a little more entertaining.

Check it out while it lasts: http://www.myspace.com/expelledthemovement

Also, if anyone has a good banner for expelledexposed.com that shows the website, I can swap this pic for that one.



Oh, that's fantastic! Great job.

[Olowkow]

The phone call "gatecrashing" inspired me. I befriended expelled's myspace page so I could leave comments. I tried leaving one asking about why PZ was kicked out of the movie showing, but they're too smart, and set up their page so you have to get the comment approved before it shows up.

So after about 5 tries of getting a critical comment on their page to know avail, I gave up, and posted a comment wishing them a happy easter, with a nice "god bless you" picture. Sure enough, it got approved. Except, I hotlinked the pic from my own website, and then swapped the picture for something a little more entertaining.

Check it out while it lasts: http://www.myspace.com/expelledthemovement

Also, if anyone has a good banner for expelledexposed.com that shows the website, I can swap this pic for that one.

Of course your link has been diverted to their "expelled the movie". Could you please post here what you had posted clandestinely, since I missed it? Thanks.

Edit: Holy whatever, batman, I did not scroll down far enough! Outstanding! Now that is funny, sorry I just thought it was somehow diverted.

[RandFan]

Good job Justin. :D

[RandFan]

Also, if anyone has a good banner for expelledexposed.com that shows the website, I can swap this pic for that one.

It doesn't have the website but this one's good. From Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3600076#post3600076)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1421447fb7101adfe3.jpg

[MattusMaximus]

The phone call "gatecrashing" inspired me. I befriended expelled's myspace page so I could leave comments. I tried leaving one asking about why PZ was kicked out of the movie showing, but they're too smart, and set up their page so you have to get the comment approved before it shows up.

So after about 5 tries of getting a critical comment on their page to know avail, I gave up, and posted a comment wishing them a happy easter, with a nice "god bless you" picture. Sure enough, it got approved. Except, I hotlinked the pic from my own website, and then swapped the picture for something a little more entertaining.

Check it out while it lasts: http://www.myspace.com/expelledthemovement

Also, if anyone has a good banner for expelledexposed.com that shows the website, I can swap this pic for that one.


LOL - Nice pwnage Justin! :D

[Juustin]

It doesn't have the website but this one's good. From Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3600076#post3600076)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1421447fb7101adfe3.jpg


OK, this is up there now.

[MattusMaximus]

OK, this is up there now.

LOL!!!

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/774747dc5f01571c1.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11269)

[RandFan]

OK, this is up there now.That's so damn cool.

[Kochanski]

Sweet :D

[Chimera]

OK, this is up there now.

Good one Justin! You rock.:p

[Fordama]

So after about 5 tries of getting a critical comment on their page to know avail, I gave up, and posted a comment wishing them a happy easter, with a nice "god bless you" picture. Sure enough, it got approved. Except, I hotlinked the pic from my own website, and then swapped the picture for something a little more entertaining.
Outstanding!

Fordama

[Juustin]

I was going to put up a picture of Goatse instead but I thought that might be a bit much. (Note: If you don't know what that is, and you're at work, definitely do not google it).

[Foolmewunz]

Justin,

This is a childish prank. But, hey, I'm registered on one site with my favorite line, "You're never too old to be immature."

I love it!

How "thick" are they? It's the topmost comment. Certainly someone must've seen it by now?

[Normal Dude]

Great stuff.

[wahrheit]

I was going to put up a picture of Goatse instead but I thought that might be a bit much. (Note: If you don't know what that is, and you're at work, definitely do not google it).

And if you are not at work, do not google it either. :scared:

[RandFan]

It's still up there.

[Juustin]

And if you are not at work, do not google it either. :scared:


Good point. If you did google it, press F1 to unsee.

I admit this is a childish prank. I would rather have a mature, grown up conversation about the deception behind their film, but they take every precaution to make sure they don't have to enter into a mature conversation about it. So I dropped down to their level.

They used to not have the comment pre-approval feature. I still have a comment up on one of their pictures. They had a caption about how evolution leads to Atheism. I posted a comment asking if, according to that logic, the horrors of children falling out of high rise apartment windows should prevent anyone from accepting gravity.

[Juustin]

Also, it did take them about a week to approve the pic, so hopefully they don't go through and check the page every day. It might be up there a while, hopefully. Let's face it, being on the ball is not their forte.

[bokonon]

How "thick" are they? It's the topmost comment. Certainly someone must've seen it by now?
I don't know how MySpace works, but it may be that the site doesn't provide a way to delete comments after they've been approved, just the ability to withhold approval on the front end.

[Foolmewunz]

I don't know how MySpace works, but it may be that the site doesn't provide a way to delete comments after they've been approved, just the ability to withhold approval on the front end.

Nope. If you scroll down, one of the posts has an "image removed" notice. I think Juustin's right and they don't spend a lot of time going back over previously approved stuff. Someone (no doubt one of those Ministry of Certitude Caringness Dopiness guys) will burst a vein in their neck and phone it in.

In the interim, I've sent the link to a few anti-ID friends around the world tonight.

[MattusMaximus]

Rather than put money into the pockets of Ben Stein and the Disco Institute by buying a ticket to "Expelled", instead consider buying a "Truth Ticket". Read more about it at this link via Pandas Thumb...

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/04/truth-tickets.html

My favorite from that link's comment section:

"Don’t pay to see Expelled. See it for free if you have to. This clunker will end up as free DVDs, free church basement showings, and on late night Xian Trinity Broadcasting TV soon enough. Or possibly as a triple feature with The Rocky Horror Picture Show and From Darwin to Hitler."

I'll be buying my "Truth Ticket" tonight! Pass it on. :D

ETA: Awesome! This was my 666th post! Ben Stein, if you're reading this... the Devil made me do it!!! :hypnotize

[Juustin]

In honor of the whole copyright infringement fiasco, I have changed the image on expelled's myspace page to something more fitting, which someone posted at the SGU forum. It's worth a look, I hope it stays up for a while.

http://www.myspace.com/expelledthemovement

[RandFan]

In honor of the whole copyright infringement fiasco, I have changed the image on expelled's myspace page to something more fitting, which someone posted at the SGU forum. It's worth a look, I hope it stays up for a while.

http://www.myspace.com/expelledthemovementNice.

[MattusMaximus]

In honor of the whole copyright infringement fiasco, I have changed the image on expelled's myspace page to something more fitting, which someone posted at the SGU forum. It's worth a look, I hope it stays up for a while.

http://www.myspace.com/expelledthemovement


That's just awesome! I cannot believe how clueless these clowns are :D

[krelnik]

Remember the discussion about whether pro-ID or pro-evolution people made the Dawkins rap video? Both here and elsewhere, the skeptic community seemed divided. Well, the truth has come out in the form of a follow-on video posted on YouTube:

QUt7nZdUJIk

Even the follow-on has some subtlety, check the "Poe's Law (http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Poe's_Law)" T-shirt on Ben Stein!

So lets see how everyone did in their analysis:

That made me laugh. Of course, I think the lyrics are pretty damn impressive once you understand them... clearly a smart person. Richard is confused about whose side they are on:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2409,n,n

I've never met a bright creationist, so I say "ours"--

do not sound very pro creationism to me.

I say "theirs". It's littered with symbols and actions trying to denigrate the four horsemen. But it's funny as hell.


I say "ours". The lyrics are all pro-science.


"The video contains two messages, one obvious and the other subtle. The obvious message is about how arrogant science is, and that's for the creationists. The hidden message is for all the science bloggers, who are the only ones who know enough to spot it.

"The message is designed to get the ID message across, but to hook the science people into thinking the video is actually pro-science and get them to promote the video and take it viral."

..snip..

Wow. And all this time I thought these guys were thick. But now I see their subtlety is breathtaking.

That's full-out creationism idiocy put into the mouth of Richard Dawkins.

Points for packaging, but overall, this is meant to harm science.

It looks like dahduh nailed it. It was made by the Expelled crew, and it was specifically designed to go viral on our sites, while having an over-the-top message that only a creationist could see as anything other than parody.

Scorecard:

articulett, wahrheit, Upchurch: 0

Ichneumonwasp, dahduh, boloboffin: 1

It is somewhat amazing, considering how incredibly stupid the actual movie is, how subtly they worked this piece of viral video. Not sure it helped them, though, they still made under $3 million the first weekend. (Not at all bad for a documentary but not nearly what they had predicted).

[Skeptic Ginger]

Do I get credit for knowing I didn't know? ;)

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3585681#post3585681

[wahrheit]

Do I get credit for knowing I didn't know? ;)

And I didn't say "ours" or "theirs", I only quoted a part of the lyrics which was anti creationism. :eusa_snooty:

Krelnik is a meanie, make me cry. :cry1


;)

[krelnik]

Sorry about that, wahrheit! ;) Here, have a cookie....

[Upchurch]

Scorecard:

articulett, wahrheit, Upchurch: 0

Ichneumonwasp, dahduh, boloboffin: 1
I stand corrected and stupid.

[bokonon]

Here's the same animator's (though probably not the same writer's) video about gay marriage.

mViPY9R6ZBE

Funny is funny, fundy is fundy, this guy's funny.

[Upchurch]

Hold on. I finally got a chance to sit down and watch the "part 2".

Even the follow-on has some subtlety, check the "Poe's Law (http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Poe's_Law)" T-shirt on Ben Stein!
Wouldn't the invocation of Poe's law indicate that it is, itself, a parody?

[ravdin]

It is somewhat amazing, considering how incredibly stupid the actual movie is, how subtly they worked this piece of viral video. Not sure it helped them, though, they still made under $3 million the first weekend. (Not at all bad for a documentary but not nearly what they had predicted).

The intent behind the video seems obvious enough with the benefit of hindsight. Although I don't like the message, I have to credit the authors for their creativity and humor.

I've said this many, many times and I'll say it again- never underestimate fundamentalists.

[bokonon]

they still made under $3 million the first weekend. (Not at all bad for a documentary but not nearly what they had predicted).Most documentaries don't open in this many theaters. It seems to be holding up well enough during the week, tacking on another quarter of a million for each day of MTW. I don't think the numbers support rolling it out to additional theaters, but they may not drop it at many theaters either if these numbers hold.

[MattusMaximus]

I was going to put up a picture of Goatse instead but I thought that might be a bit much. (Note: If you don't know what that is, and you're at work, definitely do not google it).


I googled "Goatse" and I must say that is one of the nastiest things I've ever seen :jaw-dropp

You warned me, and I didn't listen... I must now go claw my eyes out...

[Silly Green Monkey]

I really don't see the problem with goatse. It's just an interesting use of anatomy. How is it worse than, for instance, double-jointed knees?

[articulett]

Hold on. I finally got a chance to sit down and watch the "part 2".


Wouldn't the invocation of Poe's law indicate that it is, itself, a parody?
I know...

I'm willing to admit being wrong, wrong, wrong... but methinks there may be a double agent on the Expelled side.

I rather like it... it may be the cleverest thing to come from the creationist camp. I do love Dennett's hat. And we are smarter than them with our "science degrees"... at least when it comes to evolution.

[Jon.]

I think PZ Myers might have alluded to the possibility of this in one of his blog posts, but Yoko Ono has now sued (http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSN2320158220080423) the makers of Expelled for their unauthorized use of "Imagine" in the movie.

No intelligence allowed, indeed!

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I think PZ Myers might have alluded to the possibility of this in one of his blog posts, but Yoko Ono has now sued (http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSN2320158220080423) the makers of Expelled for their unauthorized use of "Imagine" in the movie.

No intelligence allowed, indeed!

The producers cited the fair use doctrine, which allows the use of copyrighted materials for the purposes of commentary and criticism. They should talk to their lawyers. That is a most curious interpretation of the law. :boggled: