An insanely stupid, uncomfortable and worse of all, dangerous situation

[Ron_Tomkins]

So I rarely take the subway way way uptown here in NY. Yesterday I had to cause I was meeting someone at 181st street. And it's on these ocassions that I'm reminded that there are stations from which you can only get out through the elevator.

Now, to me this isn't only incredibly annoying, but just plainly insane and dangerous. How in the hell are you going to subject people to be in a locked space from which they cannot possible exit except on the elevator? What if there's an emergency? What if the elevator breaks down? What if someone is trying to leave the station really late at night and the elevator doesn't work and he can't find a worker at the station? Yes, I know, technically he should find someone but there's no guarantee.

See, sometimes these stations get really really really crowded. Yesterday when I was there was barely any space for the people who wanted to get INSIDE the elevator... let alone the people that were coming OUT of the elevator that we were to occupy. I mean, it's just plainly insane. It's like something taken out of a third world country.

(There is of course an emergency ladder but it's locked and so once again we depend on the Keymaster, wherever he might be, to be there and unlock the door when an emergency happens, so that we can get out and escape and not die)

Why isn't this changed?
Shouldn't it?

[Lilith]

Wow! I had a similar reaction when I got off the Metro in Bethesda and the elevator was out of order - forcing me to ride the stupendously long escalator! I nearly cried at the prospect. I don't know how long it is, but there's a YouTube video of another Metro escalator that seems darn similar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqphAqa1XNc This one (Wheaton Station) claims to be the longest of the Metro escalators, but many of them are too long for my agoraphobia. My hands literally started to sweat just watching the video. There's another video going up the escalator at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEodmMfJTlQ - with scary music - yay!

Ron,
I found this article - http://media.www.gwhatchet.com/media/storage/paper332/news/2005/09/19/Life/Whats.The.Deal.With.The.Wheaton.Metro.Station.Esca lator-989091.shtml - which mentions a Metro station that is too deep for an escalator and relies exclusively on elevators to get to the surface.

ETA to add that I found a wikipedia site that claims the Bethesda "Medical Center" station used to be the longest escalator in the western hemisphere, until the Wheaton Station escalator came along. So there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Center_(Washington_Metro)

[Ron_Tomkins]

Wow! I had a similar reaction when I got off the Metro in Bethesda and the elevator was out of order - forcing me to ride the stupendously long escalator! I nearly cried at the prospect. I don't know how long it is, but there's a YouTube video of another Metro escalator that seems darn similar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqphAqa1XNc This one (Wheaton Station) claims to be the longest of the Metro escalators, but many of them are too long for my agoraphobia.


No but you see, you had the option of the escalator. In here you don't. It's either elevator or, if your lucky, they'll open the emergency stairs.

[Lilith]

No but you see, you had the option of the escalator. In here you don't. It's either elevator or, if your lucky, they'll open the emergency stairs.

But I didn't have the option of the elevator - it was broken. That was kinda my point. :)

[Ron_Tomkins]

But I didn't have the option of the elevator - it was broken. That was kinda my point. :)


I know. But my point is: It's more important to have the option of the stairs than the option of the elevator. With the elevator you're depending on a machine. With the stairs, you always have the option of walking out by yourself, even if it's tirening. But at least you have that option.

[skeptifem]

oops wrong thread, nm

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

So I rarely take the subway way way uptown here in NY. Yesterday I had to cause I was meeting someone at 181st street. And it's on these ocassions that I'm reminded that there are stations from which you can only get out through the elevator.

Now, to me this isn't only incredibly annoying, but just plainly insane and dangerous. How in the hell are you going to subject people to be in a locked space from which they cannot possible exit except on the elevator? What if there's an emergency? What if the elevator breaks down? What if someone is trying to leave the station really late at night and the elevator doesn't work and he can't find a worker at the station? Yes, I know, technically he should find someone but there's no guarantee.

See, sometimes these stations get really really really crowded. Yesterday when I was there was barely any space for the people who wanted to get INSIDE the elevator... let alone the people that were coming OUT of the elevator that we were to occupy. I mean, it's just plainly insane. It's like something taken out of a third world country.

(There is of course an emergency ladder but it's locked and so once again we depend on the Keymaster, wherever he might be, to be there and unlock the door when an emergency happens, so that we can get out and escape and not die)

Why isn't this changed?
Shouldn't it?


Whoa, whoa, whoa. I just about never venture further than 69th street- my cut off point is about 72nd and Central Park- but I've never, ever seen this in NYC.

If anything, the problem is subway stations that have no elevators or escalators at all, leaving moms and grannies dragging themselves up the stairs at 14th and Sixth Av.

That's...incredible. No way. That's a dangerous situation to have at a local library, let alone a subway stop.

[David Swidler]

It's been that way for a long time, at least on the 1 line. When I was in college back in the nineties the story was the same - except that occasionally both elevators would be working simultaneously. Nice to see that the 181st street station hasn't changed in 11 years.

Whenever I had the choice I would take the A, but of course it's on the other side of Washington Heights. Express from 125th down to 59th. Nice pleasant ride and new, clean cars.

[Lilith]

I know. But my point is: It's more important to have the option of the stairs than the option of the elevator. With the elevator you're depending on a machine. With the stairs, you always have the option of walking out by yourself, even if it's tirening. But at least you have that option.

Do you have the option of catching the next train, going to the next stop, and then walking (or taking a cab) to the place you're going? I almost did that in DC, and half-way up I wish I had. For me, I have no option when there is only a loooonnng escalator. I somehow survived it that day, but learned my lesson, and I won't (can't) do it again. So, for me, and perhaps for other agoraphobics, having no elevator option seems insane, extremely uncomfortable and very very dangerous.

Just so ya know - I was trying to say "yeah, I know how that feels, even though it was the opposite non-option for me."

[calebprime]

So I rarely take the subway way way uptown here in NY. Yesterday I had to cause I was meeting someone at 181st street. And it's on these ocassions that I'm reminded that there are stations from which you can only get out through the elevator.

Now, to me this isn't only incredibly annoying, but just plainly insane and dangerous. ...

Yikes! I was in NYC last weekend for the first time in a long time, and the crowds in the subway nearly made me panic. What if something happened?

All situations where one has to take the elevator are wrong, dangerous, and, contemptuous of people who don't like being treated like sardines, or objects.

Tiny, relatively benign example: The Brookline, Mass. library--they won't let you take the stairs, probably for "security". Yecchh.

I say, either let people take the stairs, or don't allow access at all.

[wahrheit]

I don't get this. How can the masses of people get in and out of a subway station by means of elevators alone? Not to mention an emergency. I once looked at subway plans with an architect, and he explained that panic escape thingy to me, why there are such broad staircases even in smaller stations on preferably at least two sides or even four of them. Much like the good ole Colosseum in Rome, which could be evacuated in a very short time, up to 50,000 people.

[Ron_Tomkins]

Do you have the option of catching the next train, going to the next stop, and then walking (or taking a cab) to the place you're going?


I have that option but I would of course, be late for my appointment (or then again I would have to leave earlier, which would mean that I would have to know in advance that such station can only be exited through the elevator and thus having me making the decision of not going there... but I didn't know that until I was there).


Just so ya know - I was trying to say "yeah, I know how that feels, even though it was the opposite non-option for me."

Thank you. And I do appreciate it. I didn't know you suffered from agoraphobia. That must suck.

[Lilith]

Thank you. And I do appreciate it. I didn't know you suffered from agoraphobia. That must suck.

Oh - that would indeed! I meant acrophobia. I typed 'agoraphobia' before I had enough coffee in my system today. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd choose acrophobia anyday, even though it isn't a picnic either.

Shoot. Wish I could still edit those previous posts. Oh well.

[Aitch]

I don't get this. How can the masses of people get in and out of a subway station by means of elevators alone? Not to mention an emergency.

When I lived in Hampstead in the 1970s, the local tube station, the deepest on the London Tube system, was (still is, I think) served by two elevators. On several occasions, at least one of them was out of order, so they allowed exiting passengers to use the emergency stairs - all 300 of them. Doesn't sound many, until you've traipsed up them a couple of times. :(

[GraculusTheGreenBird]

The Covent Garden Tube is London is still served by just three elevators. But the 300 odd steps in the alternative spiral staircase are always available for the non-faint of heart...

[fuelair]

So, the next time I and my wife visit our relatives in Rockville we will have to go into the Wheaton station to ride the escalator!!! Wish one of the folks had mentioned that on any of our previous visits as we drive by it two or three times a day while we're up there!!

[Ron_Tomkins]

I'm traveling to Paris next month. Anyone know if I should be worried about some of their stations as long as we're on this topic?