More atheist bashing by elected officials

[Horatius]

Found on the reason.com blog (http://www.reason.com/blog/show/125868.html):


"What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous . . . it's dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God. Get out of that seat . . . You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon."

-- Illinois State Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago) to Rob Sherman, who was testifying before a committee of the Illinois House. Davis was referring to Sherman's atheism.





And people wonder why some atheists have decided to become more aggressive/evangelical lately.

[Phil]

How did Rob Sherman respond?

[Polaris]

Every moment of every day I get closer to moving to another nation-state. If only there was one that wasn't socialist, cold most of the year, and full of guerrillas.

[Madalch]

Scary.

[Phil]

"What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous . . . it's dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists! This is the Land of Lincoln where people believe in God. Get out of that seat . . . You have no right to be here! We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon."
-- Illinois State Rep. Monique Davis (D-Chicago) to Rob Sherman, who was testifying before a committee of the Illinois House. Davis was referring to Sherman's atheism.

Sherman Could have simply given this link (http://skepchick.org/blog/?p=1141).

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here is the audio. (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/files/DAVIS.mp3) :D

It's a doozy!

Here's the site I got the link from. It has a bit more of the exchange but really, you've got to hear it!

Rep. Monique Davis to atheist Rob Sherman: `It’s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists!' (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/04/rep-monique-dav.html)

[Darren Pollard]

Believe what I believe or else:eek:

[monoman]

Well, that clip reminded me I should watch pulp fiction again.

[Mobyseven]

Every moment of every day I get closer to moving to another nation-state. If only there was one that wasn't socialist, cold most of the year, and full of guerrillas.

Er... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia)

[Rufo]

What a way to talk to someone. And were those applause in the end meant to praise her? Way to go encouraging that behavior. Don't they see that this will do nothing but escalate the conflict? It's not working in anyone's favor.

What were they discussing in the first place?

[Horatius]

Here is the audio. (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/files/DAVIS.mp3) :D

It's a doozy!

Here's the site I got the link from. It has a bit more of the exchange but really, you've got to hear it!

Rep. Monique Davis to atheist Rob Sherman: `It’s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists!' (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/04/rep-monique-dav.html)



Right at the end, someone who sounds like a chair of the meeting basically brushes Davis' rant under the rug, and doesn't even let Sherman respond to her.

Can anyone imagine a tirade like that, that focussed on any religion, being ignored? She would have been raked over the coals if she said that about Jews or Muslims!

[Skeptic Ginger]

What a way to talk to someone. And were those applause in the end meant to praise her? Way to go encouraging that behavior. Don't they see that this will do nothing but escalate the conflict? It's not working in anyone's favor.

What were they discussing in the first place?The atheist has been fighting lots of legal battles from the sound of things like getting "In God We Trust" off the money. In this case the minute of silence that is used in schools to get around the prayer restrictions was mentioned so I think that was the issue.

[Rufo]

The atheist has been fighting lots of legal battles from the sound of things like getting "In God We Trust" off the money. In this case the minute of silence that is used in schools to get around the prayer restrictions was mentioned so I think that was the issue.
I was just a bit curious what may have prompted Davis' comments. There were mentions of an old church building she thought should be preserved, and she kept talking about Sherman's lack of interest in keeping guns out of schools. The subjects I noticed in the audio clip seemed unrelated to her outburst.

It makes more sense for the subjects you mention to trigger something like that. What's the minute of silence thing?

ETA: I looked it up myself, and it seems to be a pretty silly conflict. Not exactly something worth fighting legal battles about, but not getting this upset about either.

[Empress]

One of the more disgusting things I've heard in a while.

Here's a link to her page in the Illinois Assembly, if you'd like to express your opinion to her directly. No email that I saw off-hand, but phone, fax, and address.

http://www.ilga.gov/house/Rep.asp?MemberID=909

[JoeEllison]

She's an anti-American thug, and I think she should be booted from office in disgrace... and beaten about the head and shoulders with a rotten halibut.

[MattusMaximus]

I am the president of one of the chapters of Americans United for the Separation of Church & State in Illinois, where this event took place.

Rest assured that now that I know about it, we are going to be looking into these despicable comments by Rep. Davis.

Trust me folks, this is just the beginning of this fight. Davis has stirred up a hornet's nest. :mad:

[JoeEllison]

I am the president of one of the chapters of Americans United for the Separation of Church & State in Illinois, where this event took place.

Rest assured that now that I know about it, we are going to be looking into these despicable comments by Rep. Davis.

Trust me folks, this is just the beginning of this fight. Davis has stirred up a hornet's nest. :mad:
I'll pay for the halibut... :D

[MattusMaximus]

I'll pay for the halibut... :D


I'm hoping to mobilize our membership to do a letter-writing campaign as well as possibly getting a nationwide press release from AU National put out on this in the next few days. These horrendous comments need to be aired publicly and repudiated quite vigorously.

Stay tuned.

[MattusMaximus]

I was just a bit curious what may have prompted Davis' comments. There were mentions of an old church building she thought should be preserved, and she kept talking about Sherman's lack of interest in keeping guns out of schools. The subjects I noticed in the audio clip seemed unrelated to her outburst.


The "guns in schools" thing Davis kept harping on is just a red herring. For some more background, you should understand that she's one of the state legislators in Illinois behind the push for a mandatory "moment-of-silence" law (read: backdoor attempt to mandate prayer in public schools). Sherman has filed a lawsuit in federal court in an attempt to kill the law, and it is currently pending. And Davis and her colleagues in the Illinois legislature are not happy with Sherman or my group, either.

Fortunately, I anticipate a lot of people in the legislature getting quite upset with Davis about these comments. I'm going to do what I can to make sure of that :mad:

[MattusMaximus]

I have a contact in the Illinois legislature that I'm in touch with about this situation. We'll see what I can dig up.

Again, stay tuned.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I'm not even an Illinois residence, and I expressed my disgust at her comments:

Ms. Davis:

Allow me to preface this communication by saying that I am not an Illinois resident; however, I am a proud member of this nation's atheist community. Just this weekend, I was in Lincolnshire at a gaming convention. If I had known then that, earlier that very week, you had made hateful and bigoted remarks directed at Mr. Rob Sherman and other non-theists like us, I would have not bothered coming to a state which would elect someone with your attitude as a representative. I was planning to attend a similar convention in Rockford this November, but it seems that as long as you hold office in Illinois, I am going to have to forgo contributing so much as a dime to your state's economy if I can help it.

I will not dignify the rest of the paranoid dispersions you cast on atheists during your foul tirade with a critique. (e.g. "What you have to spew and spread is extremely dangerous..." "...it's dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists!" "You believe in destroying!") However, need I remind you of the oath you swore when you first took public office? I believe you swore an oath to "defend and protect the constitution of the United States." Now, if I recall correctly, the very first amendment of that document clearly states:

‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Mr. Sherman has every right to be an atheist. Mr. Sherman has every right to speak out on issues that pertain to the issues of church and state. Mr. Sherman has ever right to "petition the Government for the redress of grievances" when he feels that the state is going down what he feels is the wrong path. In light of these facts, how dare you tell Mr. Sherman "Get out of that seat . . . You have no right to be here!" It not only reveals your bigotry, but it betrays your oath to protect the rights of free speech of your fellow American citizen, even--indeed, especially--one who does not agree with your religion.

Sincerely,
Mark A. Siefert

[Skeptic Ginger]

I was just a bit curious what may have prompted Davis' comments. There were mentions of an old church building she thought should be preserved, and she kept talking about Sherman's lack of interest in keeping guns out of schools. The subjects I noticed in the audio clip seemed unrelated to her outburst.

It makes more sense for the subjects you mention to trigger something like that. What's the minute of silence thing?

ETA: I looked it up myself, and it seems to be a pretty silly conflict. Not exactly something worth fighting legal battles about, but not getting this upset about either.The gun comment was red herring. It is saying your priorities are skewed which has relevance, but it was not relevant here unless there was some law allowing guns in schools that needed changing.

There was prayer in many pubic schools before the infamous Madalyn Murray O'Hair got involved. They prayed in class rooms, at sports events, at graduation, at assemblies. In the South and in the Bible belt no one noticed that was not appropriate for a public school. O'Hair managed to get a lawsuit heard by the Supreme Court which eventually ruled that prayer in public schools amounted to state sponsored religion which is unconstitutional. So prayers in school were outlawed. In the backlash, some schools decided to have "a minute of silence" so students could pray if they wanted to. It's usually no big deal. But there are still many places where it is obvious this is still encouragement to pray and that is state sponsored religion.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here is Davis' email address:

Capitol Website:
http://www.ilga.gov/house/Rep. ...
Capitol Email:
mdavis2147@aol.com

[Kopji]

And not only that, Lincoln was born on February 12, 1809, in Hodgenville, Hardin County, Kentucky

So there.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here's the email I sent.Dear Rep Davis,

Having heard your unprofessional outburst to Mr Rob Sherman because he does not share your religious views I am appalled. As an elected official, one would think the US Constitution meant something to you even if you are a state rep and not a federal rep. You are aware, I hope, that there is a Constitutional principle called the separation of church and state?

Does someone really need to remind you about the importance of protecting minority rights?

You should be ashamed of your conduct and you owe an apology to those of us who have just as much right to our beliefs as you do to yours. Regardless of your objections to the actions Mr. Sherman seeks legal redress of, to imply that somehow it was harmful for my child or any other child to be exposed to the view that magical beings in the sky are myths is wrong.

Shame on you.

[arthwollipot]

Every moment of every day I get closer to moving to another nation-state. If only there was one that wasn't socialist, cold most of the year, and full of guerrillas.Er... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia)Agreed. Come join us. If an elected official started spouting this kind of carp here, he or she would be drummed out of office right quick.

[Horatius]

I am the president of one of the chapters of Americans United for the Separation of Church & State in Illinois, where this event took place.

Rest assured that now that I know about it, we are going to be looking into these despicable comments by Rep. Davis.

Trust me folks, this is just the beginning of this fight. Davis has stirred up a hornet's nest. :mad:



I'm glad I was able to help, by bringing this up. I'm Canadian, so I probably shouldn't go writing her myself, but I'm glad you guys are stepping up to do something. There's a sort-of saying here in Canada, that what the US does today, Canada will do in 10 years. So by forestalling idiots like this in the US today, you might be helping us stop the spread of them into Canada in a few years.

Keep up the good work!

[Egg]

Yep, pretty dumb and short-sighted. It sounded like she let her emotions get the better of her. Surely it doesn't take a lot of thought to see that the same laws which protect her rights to follow the religion of her choice and to speak freely about that religion, apply to Sherman too. That might not seem so important when your religion is in the majority, but some day she might come to appreciate such protection.

[Soapy Sam]

And not only that, Lincoln was born on February 12, 1809, in Hodgenville, Hardin County, Kentucky

So there.

She said "the LAND of Lincoln". I presume she meant the USA, rather than the state of Illinois.

Interesting to hear her work herself up from "I'm trying to understand" to her final tirade, in the complete absence of input from Sherman.
Call me a sceptic, but I don't think she was trying to understand at all.
I think she just "opened her moo and let her belly rumble" , as we say in Scotland.

[Rufo]

Time for me to play the devil's advocate, I guess. :)

Can we really be sure Davis was talking about atheism? Sherman himself actually asked the most important question - "What’s dangerous, ma’am?" - for which he received no answer. My first impression was that she did attack atheism, but now that I know more of the context I'm not so certain. I think she perceives Sherman as an anti-theist and that she is attacking that philosophy. Justified or not, that would make most of the things she says make a lot more sense.

She still has no right to tell him he should get out, but I'd like to see her explain this.

[Rorgg]

While, yes, Lincoln was born in Kentucky, he spent most of his adult life in Illinois, including representing it in congress. "Land of Lincoln" is the Illinois state official nickname or something similar (we're also "The Prairie State," in a case of advertising gone awry.)

[Empress]

Good work, everyone. I'll be sending an email as well, now that skeptigirl has provided the address.

[Kochanski]

I emailed the Democratic party about her.

[godless dave]

There was prayer in many pubic schools before the infamous Madalyn Murray O'Hair got involved. They prayed in class rooms, at sports events, at graduation, at assemblies. In the South and in the Bible belt no one noticed that was not appropriate for a public school. O'Hair managed to get a lawsuit heard by the Supreme Court which eventually ruled that prayer in public schools amounted to state sponsored religion which is unconstitutional. So prayers in school were outlawed.

Prayers in school weren't outlawed - prayers organized and/or led by employees of the school were outlawed. Students can pray all they want as long as they don't disrupt instruction.

As to the issue Sherman was making a statement about, I believe it had to do with state funds that were supposed to go to restore a damaged Chicago church building that somehow ended up going to a private school affiliated with the church instead.

Surely it doesn't take a lot of thought to see that the same laws which protect her rights to follow the religion of her choice and to speak freely about that religion, apply to Sherman too.

You wouldn't think so, but that insight seems to be lost on many Americans.

[MattusMaximus]

There are more developments on this issue. First, after contacting AU National about it, they got back to me and said they were very disturbed about Rep. Davis's comments. They are planning on responding, and I'll let everyone know what they do in the days to come.

In addition, Eric Zorn (the columnist who broke the story) has a follow-up column in Wednesday's Chicago Tribune about this...

Davis' anti-atheist tirade goes national (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/)

In addition, this has even gotten recent coverage by Keith Olbermann on MSNBC where he called her the day's "Worst Person in the World"...

Today's Worst Person in the World: Rep. Monique Davis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T35_vQms4Ck)

Stay tuned :)

[Meadmaker]

It's pretty cool that someone can insult atheists, and a prominent media figure comes out and condemns her for it. That would not have happened in my childhood.

[Damien Evans]

Er... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia)

beat me to it I see.

[arthwollipot]

beat me to it I see.Yeah, me too.

[Damien Evans]

Agreed. Come join us. If an elected official started spouting this kind of carp here, he or she would be drummed out of office right quick.

Hell, religion is such a big issue in politics here that our local M.P here could be an atheist, a christian or an animist, and no one would know or care.

[shadron]

The issue in question at the hearing was an effort to get the state to pay for the restoration of an old (pardon that, those of you from the rest of the world, excepting Australia, of course!) Baptist Church. You can hear here trying to move it from a religious issue to an historical one at the start of the excerpt, but she was apparently already pissed off and read to fire.

Besides the fact that the chair didn't seem to think anything untoward had occurred, the media also didn't pick it up. I believe it occurred last week, and only the Chicago paper's blog carried it. I googled about it early this afternoon (Wednesday), and only the blog and a couple of exact copies at other sites were listed. I would think the media would jump on this, though I imagine it would be weighted on the woman's side, pursuers of the buck as they are.

[Damien Evans]

There are more developments on this issue. First, after contacting AU National about it, they got back to me and said they were very disturbed about Rep. Davis's comments. They are planning on responding, and I'll let everyone know what they do in the days to come.

In addition, Eric Zorn (the columnist who broke the story) has a follow-up column in Wednesday's Chicago Tribune about this...

Davis' anti-atheist tirade goes national (http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/)

In addition, this has even gotten recent coverage by Keith Olbermann on MSNBC where he called her the day's "Worst Person in the World"...

Today's Worst Person in the World: Rep. Monique Davis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T35_vQms4Ck)

Stay tuned :)

That's gold!

[pchams]

Time for me to play the devil's advocate, I guess. :)

Can we really be sure Davis was talking about atheism? Sherman himself actually asked the most important question - "What’s dangerous, ma’am?" - for which he received no answer. My first impression was that she did attack atheism, but now that I know more of the context I'm not so certain. I think she perceives Sherman as an anti-theist and that she is attacking that philosophy. Justified or not, that would make most of the things she says make a lot more sense.

She still has no right to tell him he should get out, but I'd like to see her explain this.
Devil's advocate or not, he clearly was responding to her assertion that his beliefs/non-beliefs were dangerous.
[Cue audio link above]

[arthwollipot]

Well, it seems to me that the atheists that most religious people would notice are the small number of atheists who are antitheists, so they assume that they are representative of the entire atheist population. She was probably reacting to that. I would doubt that she's ever encountered a non-antitheist atheist and known that person was an atheist.

Imagine if the only Christians who ever talked much about their religion were people like the Phelps family.

Not defending the *****, mind you, but it does shed a little light on the possible reasons for the vitriol.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Prayers in school weren't outlawed - prayers organized and/or led by employees of the school were outlawed. Students can pray all they want as long as they don't disrupt instruction.
....."STUDENT LED" PRAYER AT SCHOOL EVENT DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONAL IN 6 - 3 SUPREME COURT RULING; Web Posted: June 19, 2000 (http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/prayer14.htm)

While the O'Hare ruling may have been more specific, the result is still viewed by many fundies as it being O'Hare's fault that prayer was banned in schools.

And before you go looking for a bunch of counter-decisions, I already concede the courts have been inconsistent in these cases.

[godless dave]

"STUDENT LED" PRAYER AT SCHOOL EVENT DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONAL IN 6 - 3 SUPREME COURT RULING; Web Posted: June 19, 2000 (http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/prayer14.htm)

While the O'Hare ruling may have been more specific, the result is still viewed by many fundies as it being O'Hare's fault that prayer was banned in schools.

And before you go looking for a bunch of counter-decisions, I already concede the courts have been inconsistent in these cases.

That's at a school event, where the student was allowed by the administration to address all students present.

The students in the stands could pray all they want. Students can also have "gather at the flagpole" prayer meetings before school. They can say "grace" before eating lunch. Students can also form Christian clubs and meet on school property - as long as the school allows clubs of all religions to use school property.

[MattusMaximus]

UPDATE!!!

Rep. Monique Davis has yielded to public pressure and issued a formal, public apology to Rob Sherman for her remarks!

Read all about it here!!! (http://robsherman.com/)

Thanks to everyone for passing the word and writing those letters - it worked :D

In addition, because Sherman lives close to my chapter of Americans United, we've booked him to come speak about his experience. That'll be cool.

[Empress]

UPDATE!!!

Rep. Monique Davis has yielded to public pressure and issued a formal, public apology to Rob Sherman for her remarks!

Read all about it here!!! (http://robsherman.com/)

Thanks to everyone for passing the word and writing those letters - it worked :D

In addition, because Sherman lives close to my chapter of Americans United, we've booked him to come speak about his experience. That'll be cool.

:wave1:wave1:wave1

[MattusMaximus]

One correction: Davis's apology to Sherman was not public. She called him over the phone to apologize, and Sherman graciously accepted.

If I had my druthers, I'd like to see her make a public apology. But I'll take what I can get. :)

[QBinBee]

I'm surprised that nobody has pointed out the glaring irony in that Sen. Davis, a Black Woman old enough (born 1936) to remember segregation laws and more specifically the Rosa Parks Montgomery Bus fiasco, explicitly stated to Sherman "You have no right to be here [...] Get out of that seat!"

[Skeptic Ginger]

I pointed it out.

[Egg]

UPDATE!!!

Rep. Monique Davis has yielded to public pressure and issued a formal, public apology to Rob Sherman for her remarks!


That's good, but I would hope she apologised because she realised she was wrong to have made the remarks she did, not just because of the public pressure. Perhaps, a personal apology rather than a public one suggests that to be the case, but a politician's motives are always going to be viewed with suspicion.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Hah! Except for some basic bio info, her entire Wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monique_Davis) is about this incident.

Double Hah!

[Charlie Monoxide]

Perhaps someone with a web-cam could do one of those "Just Leave Britney Alone" rants and forward it to Davis ....

Charlie (tgif) Monoxide

[grayman]

Hah! Except for some basic bio info, her entire Wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monique_Davis) is about this incident.

Double Hah!

Other than to ask, "This woman's an educator?", I'll remain neutral in my comments.

Political party: Democratic
Spouse: divorced
Profession: educator