When is it OK to lie?

[Iamme]

Here is a tester for you. An actual scenario I could get into:

I was at a local shop yesterday. I says to the owner, "Where's Bob today? (Bob is normally behind the counter...not the owner). He QUIT...didn't he?!" The owner says, "Nope...he's sick. He'll be out for a while. " I says, "Gee...that's too bad. I hope he's ok." The owner says, "Well, he's bipolar. That is what he is 'in' (the hospital) for. " (I leave.)

OK...I'm a regular patron at the shop. There is Bob, two weeks from now. Me: " Hi Bob. I see you are back." Bob: "Ya...I was sick for a while. Me: (Afraid to ask). Bob: Did anybody tell you what was wrong with me?" Me: (What should I say? That the whole world now knows he is on meds and is a mental basket case?)

Think of your own lifes scenarios. maybe even type in some ones that you aren't sure about.

They say that it never pays to lie. I'm not so sure about that. I always tell people I never lie.....unless I HAVE to.
:D

[komencanto]

Says the utilitarianist: When the lie causes less suffering and more pleasure (in total, to all people involved) than the truth.

That is to say, lying in this case isn´t a bad idea. Lying in general is a bad idea, because is can cause big problems later on, and snowball, so to speak. Overall though, I don´t have any great problem with lying, if I´m sure that it will reduce suffering or cause more pleasure than the truth.

However, cases such as that are rare.

[arcticpenguin]

When she asks, "do these jeans make my butt look fat?", it's OK to lie.

[Yahzi]

If you were Bob, would you want to be lied to? Well, there's your answer.

Moral questions are often not as difficult as they are made out to me.

[Prospero]

Yay utilitarian ethics! Even though easily abused in such situations as "round up all HIV infected people and kill them to protect the rest of the world's population and save billions in the future", it's still the best!

Say, there's a new thread...

[David Wilson]

I think it's ok to lie for sex

:rub:

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Yahzi
If you were Bob, would you want to be lied to? Well, there's your answer.

Moral questions are often not as difficult as they are made out to me.

What benefit did Bob have to gain, ( in this case ) from knowing if anyone had been told about his condition.. Perhaps the shopkeeper acted indiscreetly, but is telling Bob the truth more noble than ratting on the shopkeeper.. What if Bob goes ballistic and does harm to the shopkeeper?

If I were Bob, and I was looking for Joe, with murder on my mind, I certainly wouldn't want to be lied to concerning Joe's whereabouts...

However, what I ( Bob ) want in this case, doesn't seem to be a reasonable criteria for you to refrain from lying to me..


Moral questions are often not as simple as they are made out to me.

[Gregor]

. . . as to the jeans question - please learn from the error of my ways. . . "No more than usual" is NEVER the correct answer.

[Dancing David]

I don't know why Bob would be upset, usualy people with a mental illness hide it only for protection, they will usualy tell you thier life history.

Like me: I first got depressed at the age of six and have had reoccuring depression my whole life.... yadadadadada

Why was Bob called a 'mental basket case'? Is there some reason you would use that term?

[Michael Redman]

Don't ignore the social cost of having an ethic compromised. Maybe in this situation, out of context, a lie costs less than the truth, but no situation is isolated out of context. It isn't OK to lie unless the reason is even more compelling than the societial value of having the do-not-lie ethic held as a very high priority. Higher, even, then one's personal desires in certain uncomfortable situations.

Who would answer the question, "Does my homeopathic medication work?" with what they thought the person wanted to hear? Is it OK to lie because they'll be happier if they hear what they want? Because you won't have to be uncomfortable if you tell them what they want to hear?

Not in my opinion.

[Missy]

Honesty is the best policy.. despite whatever reactions will arise.. BUT if you have to lie.. Make damn sure it doesn't hit you in face later on!


Missy

[EdipisReks]

why tell the truth when a lie will suffice? ;)

[Samus]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
When she asks, "do these jeans make my butt look fat?", it's OK to lie. "No, your fat butt makes you look fat...but the jeans do help to bring it out..." :)

I'm no good at telling a lie. In this instance, I would give a little truth, but see if I could get him to disclose to me what his problem was. Maybe say something like "I heard you were in the hospital, is everything okay?" I didn't lie, and I didn't belittle him, either.

Should he tell me why he was in the hospital, I don't need to say "I already knew that". Should he decline to tell me why he was in the hospital, he's assured that I don't know his dirty little secret, yet I'm assured that I didn't outright lie to him.

[David Wilson]

"Candy to rot your teeth.
Bible to rot your brain."

--EvilDave (7-24-2003)

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That is funny
:big:

[roger]

Originally posted by Diogenes
What benefit did Bob have to gain, ( in this case ) from knowing if anyone had been told about his condition

Who knows? By lying to him, aren't you presuming to know more about what is best for Bob than Bob knows?

It is for reasons like these that when people ask me "can you keep a secret" I answer "No". Then they go and tell me something deeply revealing anyway. :eek:

I'm overstating my case, as I have told white lies before, but I am generally uncomfortable with them and regret them afterwards.

not as much as I regret answering 'yes' to "does this make me look fat", though

Edited to add: Diogenes, I reread your message and see that I took your point out of context. I will leave my message intact as I stand by the intent behind my commment, and I dislike deleted posts.

[Andonyx]

Nothing takes place in a vacuum, and this question is not an absolute archetype for lying to protect others feelings.

In this case, the person who told you about Bob's condition works with bob, and as such there is a very real likely hood that Bob will find out the truth.

Now in very real practical terms consider these two outcomes; which is worse:

Telling Bob the truth and having Bob see that it basically is no big deal to you...

OR

Lying to Bob, having him find out about the lie from his manager and then realizing that you found it to be such an embarassing siutation that you felt you had to lie about it.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by roger


Who knows? By lying to him, aren't you presuming to know more about what is best for Bob than Bob knows?
Nope.. I'm presuming to know what is best for me .. ( and in this case, the shopkeeper.. read the rest of my post.. )

It is for reasons like these that when people ask me "can you keep a secret" I answer "No". Then they go and tell me something deeply revealing anyway. :eek:

I'm overstating my case, as I have told white lies before, but I am generally uncomfortable with them and regret them afterwards.

not as much as I regret answering 'yes' to "does this make me look fat", though

Edited to add: Diogenes, I reread your message and see that I took your point out of context. I will leave my message intact as I stand by the intent behind my commment, and I dislike deleted posts.


I was going to reply....

<center>"Nope.. ( I wasn't presuming what is best for Bob .. ) I'm presuming to know what is best for me .. ( and in this case, the shopkeeper.. )"</center>


I see you beat me to it....

I do understand your point about presuming what is best for others.. This is a crucial element of ethics...

We really have to speculate about who has the most to lose, and weigh the relative value of such losses..

It ain't easy....

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by David Wilson
"Candy to rot your teeth.
Bible to rot your brain."

--EvilDave (7-24-2003)

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That is funny
:big:

indeed. EvilDave is a giant among men.