In response to Fitna - Here comes "Schism"

[mrbaracuda]

Saudi Blogger Releases Christian Version of 'Fitna'

The recent film "Fitna" by the controversial Dutch politician Geert Wilders was seen by many as an attack on Islam. Now a Saudi blogger has created a film featuring violent texts from the Bible, with the intention of showing that stereotyping can go both ways.

[...]

The film "Schism" by Raed Al-Saeed, 33, is a little over six minutes in length and can be viewed on the Internet video portal YouTube. The film takes verses from the Bible promoting violence, killing and war and intersperses them with provocative images.

[...]

At the end of his film, Al-Saeed draws a parallel between his film and that of Wilders. The penultimate screen image reads: "It is easy to take parts of any Holy (sic) book that are out of content (sic) and make it sound like the most inhuman book ever written. That is what Geert Wilders did to gather more supporters to his hateful ideology. To create schism."

Link. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,546534,00.html)

rpiccERJaFk

At least Wilders put some more effort into Fitna and can't be as easily dismissed as this one, heh.

There's also been really a flood of "Schism-like" movies on youtube it seems, like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGw6rsQ8xHk), which was according to the uploader and owner of the youtube account made by a Dutch Muslim.

[Oliver]

Are you Mr. Wilders himself?

Here's what a serious critical view of Islam looks like - in contrast to a conspiracy nut "Documentation" you're obviosly obsessed with for some dubious reasons [Ossi? :confused:] :

Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 1 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=2365081171838960665&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=2700&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D2365081171838960665&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D2365081171838960665% 26q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bdurat ion%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26 so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H232gzQqVdX2nzRhh1lXOTU6aQvnhQ)
Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 2 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=29738296087850507&esrc=sr2&ev=v&len=2585&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D29738296087850507&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D29738296087850507%26 q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bduratio n%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so %3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D1&usg=AL29H21UG80tJPZWqKu5yo4qJzrKHWEi4Q)
Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 3 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=3973264001528417676&esrc=sr3&ev=v&len=2711&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D3973264001528417676&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D3973264001528417676% 26q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bdurat ion%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26 so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D2&usg=AL29H21nCcucZRf22SXAWMB8kNq2gbczig)

[mrbaracuda]

a conspiracy nut "Documentation" you're obviosly obsessed with for some dubious reasons [Ossi? :confused:]

"conspiracy nut "Documentation""? Funnily enough, you haven't claimed that in the Fitna-Thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=109973) I created if I'm not mistaken.

And no, neither am I obsessed with it, nor am I an "Ossi" (thank goodness I'm not, heh).

[gtc]

Ossi is a pejorative term for East German, right?

Why does Oliver think this would have anything to do with anything?

[mrbaracuda]

Ossi is a pejorative term for East German, right?

Yes. But since I am not an Ossi I don't care. Well, that and because it's Oliver heh.

Why does Oliver think this would have anything to do with anything?

I don't know but once I was in this weird forum of leftists, and the majority were Ossis I think and they all believed in a variety of CTs, ranging from 9/11 was an inside job with demolotions to no-plane stuff and other things like the Mossad founded Hamas etc etc. I don't know how much influence the USSR / DDR (or GDR in English) still has on them, but since the successor party of the SED, "The Left" or PDS is very strong in East Germany maybe they really are still prone to blunt propaganda over there.




Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 1 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=2365081171838960665&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=2700&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D2365081171838960665&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D2365081171838960665% 26q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bdurat ion%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26 so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H232gzQqVdX2nzRhh1lXOTU6aQvnhQ)
Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 2 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=29738296087850507&esrc=sr2&ev=v&len=2585&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D29738296087850507&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D29738296087850507%26 q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bduratio n%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so %3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D1&usg=AL29H21UG80tJPZWqKu5yo4qJzrKHWEi4Q)
Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 3 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=3973264001528417676&esrc=sr3&ev=v&len=2711&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D3973264001528417676&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D3973264001528417676% 26q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bdurat ion%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26 so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D2&usg=AL29H21nCcucZRf22SXAWMB8kNq2gbczig)

I've seen the first episode now and nothing new for me. But that Hamed Habesh of the Damascus Islamic Centre you see at 26:30 struck me as disingenuous when he recited a verse from the Quran that says fight the unbelievers and idolaters and translates it with "You have to fight others collectively". Well, I think I know what otherness is to that guy. :rolleyes:

[RandFan]

Are you Mr. Wilders himself?

Here's what a serious critical view of Islam looks like - in contrast to a conspiracy nut "Documentation" you're obviosly obsessed with for some dubious reasons [Ossi? :confused:] :

Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 1 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=2365081171838960665&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=2700&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D2365081171838960665&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D2365081171838960665% 26q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bdurat ion%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26 so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H232gzQqVdX2nzRhh1lXOTU6aQvnhQ)
Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 2 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=29738296087850507&esrc=sr2&ev=v&len=2585&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D29738296087850507&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D29738296087850507%26 q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bduratio n%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so %3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D1&usg=AL29H21UG80tJPZWqKu5yo4qJzrKHWEi4Q)
Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 3 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=3973264001528417676&esrc=sr3&ev=v&len=2711&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D3973264001528417676&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D3973264001528417676% 26q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bdurat ion%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26 so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D2&usg=AL29H21nCcucZRf22SXAWMB8kNq2gbczig) What is your basis to claim that it is a "critical view"?

It appears to me to be propaganda. It puts forth the proposition that Mohamad spoke to god. No critical analysis of this is offered.

Update: I'm 10 minutes into the 2nd video where I do find some critical analysis. I did find snippets of what I would consider to be not propaganda.

We'll see.

[Ateius]

The film "Schism" by Raed Al-Saeed, 33, is a little over six minutes in length and can be viewed on the Internet video portal YouTube. The film takes verses from the Bible promoting violence, killing and war and intersperses them with provocative images.

I wondered how long it would take for someone to think to do that. :D

[RandFan]

Are you Mr. Wilders himself?

Here's what a serious critical view of Islam looks like...

Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 1 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=2365081171838960665&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=2700&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D2365081171838960665&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D2365081171838960665% 26q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bdurat ion%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26 so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H232gzQqVdX2nzRhh1lXOTU6aQvnhQ)
Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 2 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=29738296087850507&esrc=sr2&ev=v&len=2585&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D29738296087850507&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D29738296087850507%26 q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bduratio n%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so %3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D1&usg=AL29H21UG80tJPZWqKu5yo4qJzrKHWEi4Q)
Who's Afraid of Islam? Episode 3 of 3 (http://video.google.de/url?docid=3973264001528417676&esrc=sr3&ev=v&len=2711&q=Who%27s+Afraid+of+Islam%3F+duration%3Along&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.de%2Fvideoplay%3F docid%3D3973264001528417676&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D3973264001528417676% 26q%3DWho%2527s%2BAfraid%2Bof%2BIslam%253F%2Bdurat ion%253Along%26total%3D7%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26 so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch%26plindex%3D2&usg=AL29H21nCcucZRf22SXAWMB8kNq2gbczig)I've got to say that this is turning into a fairly good movie. Did you see this Oliver?

[FireGarden]

Darn it, I've got to upgrade my computer.

As for dismissing the film? Dismiss it as what?

An attack on Christianity? It doesn't claim to be that, as the final quote shows. And another quote here:
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=108817&d=10&m=4&y=2008&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom

"I made it in less than 24 hours. In 'Schism,' I have used the same methodology that Wilders has used and that involves taking texts out of context,"

[...] When Al-Saeed first posted his clip on YouTube on March 1, the video was removed within 12 hours with a message from the site that the clip violated its terms.

Al-Saeed wrote back to YouTube, asking why the movie was removed while "Fitna" remained available. He uploaded the film again and added a message for the site's administrators advising them to view Wilders' film before deleting the film.

Dismiss it as a poor attack on Wilders? I think it hits the mark.

I would have used more NT quotes, such as 1-Peter verse 13 onwards. It's about submission to rulers and masters. Even those who are harsh. Verses 18 and 19 telling them that getting a beating for no just cause is good for them.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=2&version=31

18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.

20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.

Then show pictures from Abu Ghraib.
But then I'd be like Wilders.

[gtc]

Where in the name of hades does that imply getting a beating for no good cause?

Is this what they mean by Taqiyya?

[FireGarden]

"For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering"

Does it say beating? No.
In the context of slaves submitting to masters, even those who are harsh, it is a leap to suggest that beating is part of the unjust suffering? I don't think so. Especially when the comparison they give is: "But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? "

I took that to mean they don't think the latter is as character building as the former.

[Beerina]

Doesn't the bulk of the OT apply to Muslims, too?

[FireGarden]

The Quran has many of the same stories as the OT, but they're not direct quotes. The OT itself isn't considered as scripture for Muslims.

[ddt]

I would have used more NT quotes, such as 1-Peter verse 13 onwards.
Or what about Romans 13:

Submission to the Authorities

1. Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
4. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

and then show pictures of Auschwitz. This passage has been the main motivation for most German protestants and many Dutch protestants for an unconditional obedience to the (Nazi) State. Theologians still have a hard time "explaining away" this passage. Paul leaves no room for exceptions in the absolute terms he uses.

I wonder how Paul himself though about it when he was about to be executed by the lawful authorities :rolleyes:.