Breaking the Silence Report

[E.J.Armstrong]

Breaking the Silence will publish tomorrow disturbing testimony from 39 Israelis who served in the army in Hebron between 2005 and 2007.

Former soldier Iftach Arbel and many other testimonys '...describe how the settlers educate children as young as four to throw stones at Palestinians, attack their homes and even steal their possessions. ...'

The testimonies also cover '... a range of experiences, from a feeling of anger and powerlessness in the face of often violent abuse of Arabs by hard-line Jewish settlers, through petty harassment by soldiers, to soldiers beating up Palestinian residents without provocation, looting homes and shops, and opening fire on unarmed demonstrators. ...'

Shovrim Shtika ' ...receives funding from groups as diverse as the Jewish philanthropic Moriah Fund, the New Israel Fund, the British embassy in Tel Aviv and the EU. ...'

All quotes from The Independent Saturday 19 April 2008 page 2 News.

Assuming the Independent has reported the content accurately, this looks like an important document to help understand some of what has been going on.

[mrbaracuda]

I read "the settlers" and "hard-line Jewish settlers".

So, does it cover anything else or what's going to be new apart from the fact that religious extremists, in this case apparently violent orthodox Jews, can be a little mushy in the head? You know, like the one who killed Rabin, Yigal Amir.

[E.J.Armstrong]

I read "the settlers" and "hard-line Jewish settlers".

So, does it cover anything else or what's going to be new apart from the fact that religious extremists, in this case apparently violent orthodox Jews, can be a little mushy in the head? You know, like the one who killed Rabin, Yigal Amir.


The report talks about soldiers' activities, not just the religious extremists they protect, as indicated in the opening post.

Incidents in which

'... Palestinian vehicles are stopped for no good reason, the windows smashed and the occupants beaten up for talking back- for saying,for example, they are on the way to hospital; the theft of tobacco from a Palestinian shopkeeper who is then beaten 'to a pulp' when he complains, the throwing of stun grenades through the windows of mosques as people prayed. And worse. ...' from the same Independent story.

It sounds like an important document in the words of the soldiers themselves.

[RandFan]

I'm glad. Sincerely. It's good that in Israel there exists enough openness and reason that human thought and emotion can be explored in the face of inhumanity and atrocity.

Cool.

The Palestinian equivalent?

[E.J.Armstrong]

I'm glad. Sincerely. It's good that in Israel there exists enough openness and reason that human thought and emotion can be explored in the face of inhumanity and atrocity.

Cool.

The Palestinian equivalent?

I am delighted there are Israeli soldiers who are prepared to tell the truth about the reality of their terrorism against Palestinians. I commend all Israeli organisations and the EU who support them.

In terms of an equivalent perhaps you could point me to any Israeli town occupied by the Palestinian military. Since there isn't I can point you to a number of organisations, all easily accessible on the internet for those who care to look including: -

PCHR
PHRMG
Combatants for peace

etc etc.

[RandFan]

In terms of an equivalent perhaps you could point me to any Israeli town occupied by the Palestinian military. What on earth does occupation have to do with murder and atrocity?

PCHR
PHRMG
Combatants for peacePotential for some hope. I found the CFP to be more interested in the rights of Israelis than the PCHR and PHRMG but that's fine. I'm afraid I'm a bit cynical as to the prospects of these organizations but they are a start. Until both sides stop with the whole good guy vs bad guy meme they are not going to get anywhere.

Thanks for pointing them out.

[RandFan]

I am delighted there are Israeli soldiers who are prepared to tell the truth about the reality of their terrorism against Palestinians. I commend all Israeli organisations and the EU who support them.Hopefuly they will be joined in the future by Palestinians. I've not much hope but some hope is better than none.

[E.J.Armstrong]

What on earth does occupation have to do with murder and atrocity? You seem to have forgotten your own question. You asked for a Palestinian equivalent of the soldiers reports. Those reports deal with the occupation of Hebron. You have failed to tell me where Palestinian soldiers are occupying an Israeli town so there is no direct equivalent.

[E.J.Armstrong]

Hopefuly they will be joined in the future by Palestinians. I've not much hope but some hope is better than none. Man you really take the biscuit. I have already posted such organisations but you seem to want to deliberately discount them.

Your post did not qualify the word 'Palestinians' so I assume that your actually mean all Palestinians, despite knowing abut the organisations I posted. I conclude that you are not interested in properly representing them and seek to demonise the entire Palestinian people.

[RandFan]

You seem to have forgotten your own question. You asked for a Palestinian equivalent of the soldiers reports. Those reports deal with the occupation of Hebron. That's but one very small part of what they deal with. I think any reasonable person would agree that it is the attrocities that are most salient.


You have failed to tell me where Palestinian soldiers are occupying an Israeli town so there is no direct equivalent. Something close? Something where Palestinians confront their atrocities and crimes against humanity? Blowing up children? Torturing? Making widows and orphans? You know, some kind of self appraisal of their inhumanity.

[RandFan]

Man you really take the biscuit. I have already posted such organizations but you seem to want to deliberately discount them.

Your post did not qualify the word 'Palestinians' so I assume that your actually mean all Palestinians, despite knowing abut the organizations I posted. I conclude that you are not interested in properly representing them and seek to demonise the entire Palestinian people. Where do those organizations provide the same kind of introspection of inhumanity on the part of Palestinians?

As to the organizations. The first two seem mainly preoccupied with the rights of Palestinians though they do call for some degree of recognition of the rights of Israelis.

The third is very good I admit.

Discount? I don't know. How much effect are they having?

BTW, how fair are you to the American military or do you seek only to demonize them? Off topic I know it's just that you seem very contradictory in your views and judgment of organizations.

[Gate2501]

E.J.

You do for those of us who are to the left, what Zeitgeist has done for us who are atheists.

You ARE the straw man!

[mrbaracuda]

The report talks about soldiers' activities

Yes, and the settlers it talks about can also join the IDF and become those soldiers mentioned.