Revival in Florida

[ned flandas]

Many Christians are getting quite excited about what they see as a healing revival in florida ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPrcNxYqlgA

http://hubpages.com/hub/Lakeland-Revival


Many are convinced they have seen and recieved a miracle healing and there are thousands of examples.

For those that don't beleive in healing, what do you make of all this? :confused:

[Irony]

Have any amputees spontaneously regrown limbs?

If not, then color me unimpressed.

[slingblade]

Wishful thinking.

[Foster Zygote]

Read Randi's The Faith Healers.

[Complexity]

Fraud and scam in the place people who should know better go to die.

What's not to like?

[ned flandas]

Have any amputees spontaneously regrown limbs?

If not, then color me unimpressed.

i'll find out for you

[Kopji]

Sheesh, are there any famous faith healers that did not grow up as some kind of drug dependent criminal? I'm really amazed at the power of Jesus to take hardened criminals and turn them around to become the leaders of his church.

[JoeEllison]

Many Christians are getting quite excited about what they see as a healing revival in florida ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPrcNxYqlgA

http://hubpages.com/hub/Lakeland-Revival


Many are convinced they have seen and recieved a miracle healing and there are thousands of examples.

For those that don't beleive in healing, what do you make of all this? :confused:

How many of these threads do you plan on starting?

[UnrepentantSinner]

I know that whenever I hear that revival has broken out in some location I'm personally annointed with the Toronto Blessing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_blessing).

The most common described behaviours include hysterical laughter (or “holy laughter”),...

[ned flandas]

How many of these threads do you plan on starting?

one

[ned flandas]

Read Randi's The Faith Healers.

Hi Foster Zygote, is this a book? Or a section on this website I can read?

[wahrheit]

Hi Foster Zygote, is this a book? Or a section on this website I can read?

It's a book. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Faith_Healers)

[Beerina]

Many Christians are getting quite excited about what they see as a healing revival in florida ...

They should lock the pickpockets up.


Oh, wait. I thought you said "stealing revival".


Nevermind.


Oh, wait, strike that. Lock the pickpockets up.

[Hokulele]

I'm amazed that faith healing has been around for so long, and yet erectile dysfunction is still enough of a problem that there is not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 different popular drugs on the market.

"Laying on of hands . . ."

*Smirk*

[Silentknight]

Have any fundies spontaneously regrown their brains?

If not then color me unimpressed.

[JoeEllison]

one

You mean besides the other two? :rolleyes:

[DoubtingStephen]

Many are convinced they have seen and recieved a miracle healing and there are thousands of examples.

For those that don't beleive in healing, what do you make of all this? :confused:

First, remember i before e except after c.

Second I believe evidence, not the anecdotal testimony of people who are already known to be suffering from utterly ridiculous religious delusions.

Do you believe in talking snakes?

[Nogbad]

I'm amazed that faith healing has been around for so long, and yet erectile dysfunction is still enough of a problem that there is not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 different popular drugs on the market.

"Laying on of hands . . ."

*Smirk*


Laying on of hands

hmmmmmmmmmm.........:D

[Showmeproof]

Above all, you have to LOVE the youtube comments. One person states:

"I went down the lakeland FLA to see the revival... alot of people think its fake and that hes a fraud . . but when you go down there you will be changed! People with tumors are getting healed. . . blind are seeing, deaf ears are opening!! God is working in Todd!"

::sighs::: :confused:

[albion]

Many Christians are getting quite excited about what they see as a healing revival in florida ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPrcNxYqlgA

http://hubpages.com/hub/Lakeland-Revival


Many are convinced they have seen and recieved a miracle healing and there are thousands of examples.

For those that don't beleive in healing, what do you make of all this? :confused:

Try this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068924/

[Showmeproof]

I would be VERY curious to do a follow-up study on many of the people that have claimed to be cured by this person. I guarantee you that most of the peoples ailments came back.

[Darth Rotor]

I'm amazed that faith healing has been around for so long, and yet erectile dysfunction is still enough of a problem that there is not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 different popular drugs on the market.

"Laying on of hands . . ."

*Smirk*
Depending upon who lays on the hands, and how, I suspect the blue pills are unnecessary.

[Hokulele]

Depending upon who lays on the hands, and how, I suspect the blue pills are unnecessary.


Hence the smirk. ;)

[skoob]

You mean besides the other two? :rolleyes:Well, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity).

Your problem is that you're using godless "Arithmetic Theory" instead of Christian Counting Science.

[ned flandas]

Well, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity).

Your problem is that you're using godless "Arithmetic Theory" instead of Christian Counting Science.

LOL ;)

[ned flandas]

Second I believe evidence, not the anecdotal testimony of people who are already known to be suffering from utterly ridiculous religious delusions.

Do you believe in talking snakes?

Thats absoltely fine. Please explain what evidence you would accept.

I've never met a talking snake.

[DoubtingStephen]

Thats absoltely fine. Please explain what evidence you would accept.

I've never met a talking snake.

Photos of an amputee before being faith healed, revealing that s/he has indeed suffered an amputation. And after photos of the newly re-grown limb.

People do attend faith healing gatherings, and many people do report cures of various types. I don't doubt that most such people are honest and sincere in their reports. But if I told you that my hay fever had been cured just after attending a session, you might reasonably ask how long it had been since I sneezed, and you might wish for some more objective means to measure my cure.

It is trivial to determine if a person has had a limb amputated. And it is also quite easy to detect and verify.

Ned, I've also never met a talking snake, and so far I'm unconvinced they exist, it sounds sort of preposterous, don't you think?

[ned flandas]

Ned, I've also never met a talking snake, and so far I'm unconvinced they exist, it sounds sort of preposterous, don't you think?

Sounds preposterous that a snake could eat a whole person, but apparently they can...

[ned flandas]

Photos of an amputee before being faith healed, revealing that s/he has indeed suffered an amputation. And after photos of the newly re-grown limb.

Hi DoubtingStephen, what would you happen if you saw this with your own eyes?

[DoubtingStephen]

Hi DoubtingStephen, what would you happen if you saw this with your own eyes?

First, I'd be startled. Second, I'd be cynical and want to know if it could have been an illusion. Much more important than my reaction would be the huge potential for good that could be achieved if this could be understood and replicated.

Your reply to my question about talking snakes was more like a deflection than an answer, it seems. It is in the nature of a snake to eat. A snake eating something very large might be unexpected, but that is still in the nature of a snake.

People are more likely to expect the Spanish Inquisition or a free trip to Cuba than they are to expect a snake to talk. I believe in the Spanish Inquisition, because it is in the nature of a religious empire to commit horrible crimes. I believe in the Guantanamo Concentration Camp because it is in the nature of governments to do horrible things. But I do not believe in talking snakes.

Do you believe in talking snakes, Ned?

[CapelDodger]

First, remember i before e except after c.

Weird, yet almost exactly true :). A bit like life.

[ned flandas]

First, I'd be startled. Second, I'd be cynical and want to know if it could have been an illusion. Much more important than my reaction would be the huge potential for good that could be achieved if this could be understood and replicated.

So you are saying that if God healed an amputee you still wouldn't beleive that God could heal an amputee?

Regarding the snake. Are you asking if I beleive in talking snakes, or do I beleive that a snake can talk?

If it's the second one then yes, God can do all things.

[Lothian]

So you are saying that if God healed an amputee you still wouldn't beleive that God could heal an amputee?
How would you know it was God that did it ?

Take a more realistic example. The website in your first post gave an example of a woman who woke up to find her mouth was full of gold teeth.

How do you know it was God that did this and not a dentist?

[Lothian]

God can do all things.Can he bless someone with necrotizing fasciitis?

[DoubtingStephen]

So you are saying that if God healed an amputee you still wouldn't beleive that God could heal an amputee?

Regarding the snake. Are you asking if I beleive in talking snakes, or do I beleive that a snake can talk?

If it's the second one then yes, God can do all things.

We were talking about the spontaneous re-growth of an amputated limb, if this ever did happen, attributing it to some Imaginary Bearded Sky Daddy (http://imaginarybeardedskydaddy.com/) would not be an explanation that would ever even occur to me. I would never even consider it as a possible explanation.

I know that there is a temptation to find a quick and easy explanation for events we do not understand at first glance, but I have faith in the existence of a reality that persists and operates independently of my imagination. So when an actual event occurs, I do not seek a fictitious explanation. We do ourselves a favor when we commit to at least try staying in touch with reality.

I would not run around in circles, looking for a sandal or a gourd, so that I could hold it up and say "Look, it is His sandal" or "Look, it is His gourd". I would not even consider a brush fire in the desert to be some sort of a miracle. I live in a desert, I've seen brush fires in the desert.

One time I saw a juniper bush, it was bringing forth juniper berries. I did not exclaim loudly that it was a miracle.

You see, since there is no Imaginary Bearded Sky Daddy it therefore follows that no Imaginary Bearded Sky Daddy can re-grow anything on anybody, amputee or not. So if a limb did re-grow, besides being happy for the person involved, I certainly would not head to the children's book section to research what had happened.

And you know, with all of the people going around spreading disinformation about miracle cures and sooper healing powers it poses the risk that folks needing medical care will forgo obtaining it because of a deluded faith in flying fairies. I think we need to protect the Sanctity of Medicine from these shysters and frauds. Maybe we need a ballot initiative in Florida, to protect the Sanctity of Medicine from charlatans, would you sign here?

When an event occurs in the realm of objective reality, I rarely turn to an ancient fairy tale for an explanation of the event. Obviously actual events have nothing to do with Biblical fairy tales. Now if I set out to write a piece of fiction, and if I wanted it to contain lots of blood, gore, and senseless violence - then your Imaginary Bearded Sky Daddy might fit in very well with that kind of a story line.

The Abrahamic death cults are just lucky that none of the earlier stupid religions could sue them for stealing the virgin mommy idea, and the died to save us idea, and all the rest of the clearly and obviously derivative silliness adopted from other, older, equally idiotic theologies.

If you happen to have your cell phone with you the next time you run into a talking snake, I suggest you try to get one of those little cell phone movies of it talking. I expect it would be popular on YouTube.

[Beerina]

Can he bless someone with necrotizing fasciitis?

Go read the book of Job. He can, and does, if for no other reason than to show He's not bound even by His own rules of goodness. He made it all, and He can trash it all if He wants.

Hence we should cower and butter Him up and follow His rulz in hopes He won't give us too many "blessings" of this type.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I was watching 700 Club this morning (look, there were commercials on everything else and I switched over) and apparently there have been some medically documented miracles during this supposed revival (btw, are any of the Canadians mocking this rediculousness aware that the evangelist who got it started is a Canadian?). Sorry for not providing a link, but while there has been no claim of amputated limbs growing back, people are claiming to have been delivered from cancer, pain, even the inability to fold themselves in half over a chair because of steel back implants. It was suggested that the woman even have an X-ray to see of the implants had disappeared (they had not... shocking).

If any of you broadband folks can link to that segment on 700 Club please do because they showed the names of people who claimed to be "healed" and I'd love to see us try some sort of follow up on whether the euphoria of the "revival" translated into actual long term healing or whether they just had elevated dopamine levels because of the crowd, etc.

[cgordon]

First, remember i before e except after c.

Better yet, remember that a LIE lies at the heart of "believe" ...

[Irony]

Sounds preposterous that a snake could eat a whole person, but apparently they can...

It only sounds preposterous to those completely ignorant of the biology of snakes. Snakes have detachable jaws and eat pretty much any animal they can fit in them, a particularly large anaconda eating a human is far from inconceivable. Snakes do not, however, have a vocal cords.

Now, have you found anything on those amputees yet?

[ned flandas]

Now, have you found anything on those amputees yet?

Apparently there is no point me researching as Stephen says he wouldn't believe that God healed an amputee even if God did heal an amputee.

[Tricky]

Apparently there is no point me researching as Stephen says he wouldn't believe that God healed an amputee even if God did heal an amputee.
Well I will. Just provide me solid evidence that God has regrown a limb and I'll believe it. Really, if you can provide any solid evidence that God does anything at all, I'll believe it. It will have to be really good evidence though.

[ned flandas]

Well I will. Just provide me solid evidence that God has regrown a limb and I'll believe it. Really, if you can provide any solid evidence that God does anything at all, I'll believe it. It will have to be really good evidence though.

Hi Tricky. What do you regard as really good evidence?

[godless dave]

Before and after pictures would be good evidence of an amputated limb growing back. However, they would not provide any evidence of who or what was responsible for it growing back.

[Irony]

Hi Tricky. What do you regard as really good evidence?

Instead of complaining about our hypothetical treatment of hypothetical evidence, how about you provide us with real evidence and we proceed from there?

[DoubtingStephen]

Apparently there is no point me researching as Stephen says he wouldn't believe that God healed an amputee even if God did heal an amputee.

Your summary of what I said, Ned, is neither what I said nor what I meant.

You seem to have the assumed expectation that if an amputee suddenly grew back a limb, that it would be natural to conclude that this unexpected event was caused by one particular imaginary creature. Yet you offered no reason to explain why a person might make that completely baseless guess. Neither do you offer any reason why this might be attributed to Thor instead of the Easter Bunny or the Good Tooth Fairy, both of whom have exactly the same healing power as Thor.

Since there is no history of Thor regrowing limbs, why would I think it was Thor that was responsible? The same goes for the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny. If it was a tooth that grew back, well, the Tooth Fairy can re-grow teeth if you are young enough when the tooth is lost, but not so much with limbs. I have personal experience with this. And you have to believe or the new tooth will just get cavities. Stupid skepticism!

When I get a spam email from an unknown source, I do not assume that Thor sent it to me.

When my foot begins to cramp, as it oddly does do from time to time, I do not assume that Thor has struck my foot with his hammer, causing the cramp as a reaction.

We know that amputees do not usually regrow their limbs, so if an amputee does regrow a limb we would joyfully seek a logical explanation in the hope that others might benefit in the future.

It does not serve the purpose of learning and understanding to immediately tumble to an explanation that is clearly ridiculous to explain an event when a logical explanation may be available.

I have a demonstrated ability to troubleshoot electronic devices and computer networks. For many years I traveled the highways fixing things, first repairing TVs for a living in my youth, then later doing field service on computer networks. By the time I retired I was teaching troubleshooting and writing extremely boring technical documents. I had a well earned reputation as a skilled troubleshooter, and was highly productive as a fixit guy. This enabled me to teach these skills. I never once suggested prayer, since it is an utter waste of time.

I had a secret trick which I have been desperately trying to share with people afflicted with delusional belief systems. This trick can help you too, it helps me in nearly every aspect of my life. I offer it free and hope it will help.

When something unexpected happens, or when something breaks, or when a person behaves unexpectedly and makes me puzzled as to why, I always explore the most probable reason first.

When I would enter a home where a TV simply would not power up, I would look to see if the TV was plugged in before replacing any parts. That was a likely explanation. I resisted the urge to tell people that some sky fairy hated them and did not want them to be able to watch TV because that would be preposterous.

As a result of my commitment to believe only in actual things that are real, I wasted no bandwidth on stupid and futile exercises in fairytale land. My customers might not have been as favorably impressed as most of them were if I had used prayer instead of technology. In addition to not impressing people, none of the thousands of TVs and computer networks I worked on would have benefited in any way by my praying over them because nothing fails like prayer.

If a person wishes to produce results in the real world, they must use reality-based methods to do so. I bet if you started praying right now for me to suddenly believe in God we would both be dead before any result was obtained, care to try?

Now lets go back to the specifics in this case. You asked me if I would believe in God if an amputee regrew a limb. You did not ask me if I would believe in God if God made an amputee's limb regrow, you only asked if I would believe in God if such an event happened. I hope you can understand the difference between these 2 cases.

Case 1: Amputee regrows limb, does Stephen believe in God now?
Case 2: God causes amputee to regrow limb, does Stephen believe in God now?

You asked about Case 1, but you later seemed to think I had responded to Case 2.

Case 1 would not make me believe in God, but it would make me mighty curious

Case 2 is so utterly preposterous that it does not deserve consideration at all. As I said before, tissue growth does not prove that Thor exists.

Ned, you are a pleasant person to exchange messages with, you don't seem malicious or snotty or anything at all like that. This is good. But for your own sake, neighborino, please, look for a logical reason first before you try finding answers to life, the universe, and everything in ancient Norse mythology.

I assume you have been talking about Thor in this thread, since you did mention God. Thor is so butch too. I bet he could beat up any one of those other Gods, with or without all of his limbs.

If I have to create another website ridiculing religion after this thread it will be your fault! I see the domain name thorbeatsjesus.com is available. Do you double dare me?

[ned flandas]

Ned, you are a pleasant person to exchange messages with, you don't seem malicious or snotty or anything at all like that. This is good. But for your own sake, neighborino, please, look for a logical reason first before you try finding answers to life, the universe, and everything in ancient Norse mythology.


But because of our differing belief systems, we will start at different places. If someone is healed then I will beleive God healed them. This is because I beleive that God can do miracles. So I don't have to travel far down the path of reasoning.

[ned flandas]

I bet if you started praying right now for me to suddenly believe in God we would both be dead before any result was obtained, care to try?

The Bible doesn't have examples of people suddenly believing in God. They usually have some kind of encounter. Paul on the road to domascus for example. So i'll pray you have an encounter with Jesus. Ready ???

[godless dave]

If someone is healed then I will beleive God healed them.

Then you're not doing any reasoning at all, you're just making an assumption.

[DoubtingStephen]

So I don't have to travel far down the path of reasoning.

Indeed, one good thing about religion is that you don't ever have to think about anything again. All of the ansers are there, which makes questions superfluous, and reduces reason to an ancient vestigial curiosity.

[Skeptic Guy]

I'm amazed that faith healing has been around for so long, and yet erectile dysfunction is still enough of a problem that there is not 1, not 2, not 3, but 4 different popular drugs on the market.

"Laying on of hands . . ."

*Smirk*

That's a lie! Whoever suggested that I...oh, wait...

yeah, yeah, that would work for someone else...whoever that may be...

[DoubtingStephen]

The Bible doesn't have examples of people suddenly believing in God. They usually have some kind of encounter. Paul on the road to domascus for example. So i'll pray you have an encounter with Jesus. Ready ???

Ned, since your intentions are good, and your prayers can not possibly harm me, I'll say thank you and wish you well too.

I'm glad you chose Jesus to be my personal savior instead of the Flying Spaghetti Monster because I have problems with pasta.

On the other hand, as a gay man myself I feel a natural affinity with other gay men, so Jesus was a very good choice. When I were a wee lad in Catholic school I used to stare at that wispy little outfit he wore on the cross. Woof!

What a trendsetter that gurlfriend was. I mean, sure there is lots of sand in Palestine, but he was nowhere near a beach. And to wear such a skimpy thing on his big day in the public eye, he must have been quite a hottie. Do you know if he ever went to any of the white parties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Party)? (not a racist reference, honest)

Long before I ever thought about, you know, doing it, I'd sit in the pew surrounded by my gorgeous male classmates and wonder how big it was under his sexy little wrap.

I'm sure you will agree with me that it is entirely possible that Jesus could have been gay. He's like the ultimate gay icon, big, butch, very powerful, and rumored to still be a virgin.

[ned flandas]

Indeed, one good thing about religion is that you don't ever have to think about anything again. All of the ansers are there, which makes questions superfluous, and reduces reason to an ancient vestigial curiosity.

Thats not true. For me, as I said, I can put an amputee healing down to God. This is because i've studied and understood God as best I can in my limited way and limited understanding.

If no-one has ever had a limb grow back then that forces me to think. Is God limited? Does he dislike amputees? etc etc. There's always stuff to think about.

[ned flandas]

Ned, since your intentions are good, and your prayers can not possibly harm me, I'll say thank you and wish you well too.

I'm not wishing you well. I'm praying for an encounter so get ready my friend. (I want you to be well too of course).

Oh and when you have that encounter, you can ask him about the gay stuff

[Civilized Worm]

Can I have an encounter too? It sounds like a laugh.


I'm glad you chose Jesus to be my personal savior instead of the Flying Spaghetti Monster because I have problems with pasta.


Infidel!

[DoubtingStephen]

Oh and when you have that encounter, you can ask him about the gay stuff

I will if the situation comes to pass.

In the meantime please tell me if you believe that Jesus *could* have been gay.

I don't expect you to say yes he was, because in those days the homophobes had lots of political power and they were more repressive than our modern day Republicans. So gay guys in Biblical times were either closeted or deceased. Sort of like modern day Iran, I guess. Surely their blood being upon them, and all that God of Mercy stuff.

But one need only the briefest glance at the Bible to see, quite evidently, that God does not consider Herself to be bound by the laws S/He made for mankind. For example, humans are told not to kill, but the first time a human pisses Her-Him off, BOOM a whole city goes up in smoke, or he tells his homeys to kill everybody, or he floods a whole planet. So obviously S/He is not bound by Her-His rules. Agreed so far? Good!

So God is not forbidden from being gay, since he is exempt from God's law. God is not a bad guy for killing innocent people, and Her-His temper tantrums are all Holy and Just by default.

So if Jesus was gay it was not a sin, so Jesus could have been gay.

Now let's examine the things he said and did, according to the legend as modified up until now.


Hung around with guys
No record of any dates
Kissed Judas
Loved his disciples
Never married
Never once said a bad word about homosexuls
Had a few platonic girl friends (Mary Magdelene)


Granted none of this proves he was gay, but it is all consistent with that possibility.

Do you think a gay savior could make amputated limbs grow back?

[ned flandas]

I will if the situation comes to pass.

In the meantime please tell me if you believe that Jesus *could* have been gay.

I don't expect you to say yes he was, because in those days the homophobes had lots of political power and they were more repressive than our modern day Republicans. So gay guys in Biblical times were either closeted or deceased. Sort of like modern day Iran, I guess. Surely their blood being upon them, and all that God of Mercy stuff.

But one need only the briefest glance at the Bible to see, quite evidently, that God does not consider Herself to be bound by the laws S/He made for mankind. For example, humans are told not to kill, but the first time a human pisses Her-Him off, BOOM a whole city goes up in smoke, or he tells his homeys to kill everybody, or he floods a whole planet. So obviously S/He is not bound by Her-His rules. Agreed so far? Good!

So God is not forbidden from being gay, since he is exempt from God's law. God is not a bad guy for killing innocent people, and Her-His temper tantrums are all Holy and Just by default.

So if Jesus was gay it was not a sin, so Jesus could have been gay.

Now let's examine the things he said and did, according to the legend as modified up until now.


Hung around with guys
No record of any dates
Kissed Judas
Loved his disciples
Never married
Never once said a bad word about homosexuls
Had a few platonic girl friends (Mary Magdelene)


Granted none of this proves he was gay, but it is all consistent with that possibility.

Do you think a gay savior could make amputated limbs grow back?


I have visions of your biting your nails in anticipation of how i'll get my head around a decent answer to this ... ;)

[DoubtingStephen]

I have visions of your biting your nails in anticipation of how i'll get my head around a decent answer to this ... ;)

:D Got me.

[ned flandas]

:D Got me.

.. you had that encounter yet? ;)

[DoubtingStephen]

No new Jeebus sightings to report, Ned. I sure hope S/He is as cute as the rumors say.

No talking snakes either.

Plus my celiac disease has not been cured either, AFAIK.

[cgordon]

What do you regard as really good evidence?

Pre- and post-healing impartial, scientific, examinations by doctors (orthopedic surgeons most likely), photos, x-rays, sworn affadavits, medical records ... you know, the usual stuff.

[tsig]

I will if the situation comes to pass.

In the meantime please tell me if you believe that Jesus *could* have been gay.

I don't expect you to say yes he was, because in those days the homophobes had lots of political power and they were more repressive than our modern day Republicans. So gay guys in Biblical times were either closeted or deceased. Sort of like modern day Iran, I guess. Surely their blood being upon them, and all that God of Mercy stuff.

But one need only the briefest glance at the Bible to see, quite evidently, that God does not consider Herself to be bound by the laws S/He made for mankind. For example, humans are told not to kill, but the first time a human pisses Her-Him off, BOOM a whole city goes up in smoke, or he tells his homeys to kill everybody, or he floods a whole planet. So obviously S/He is not bound by Her-His rules. Agreed so far? Good!

So God is not forbidden from being gay, since he is exempt from God's law. God is not a bad guy for killing innocent people, and Her-His temper tantrums are all Holy and Just by default.

So if Jesus was gay it was not a sin, so Jesus could have been gay.

Now let's examine the things he said and did, according to the legend as modified up until now.


Hung around with guys
No record of any dates
Kissed Judas
Loved his disciples
Never married
Never once said a bad word about homosexuls
Had a few platonic girl friends (Mary Magdelene)


Granted none of this proves he was gay, but it is all consistent with that possibility.

Do you think a gay savior could make amputated limbs grow back?

Well he was "all things to all men" so you've got scriptural support.

[Civilized Worm]

Stephen if you really want a religious experience maybe you should see Derren Brown about it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sq-YUdq1OI

[temporalillusion]

The Bible doesn't have examples of people suddenly believing in God. They usually have some kind of encounter. Paul on the road to domascus for example. So i'll pray you have an encounter with Jesus. Ready ???

What about someone who's waited 25 years for an encounter? Someone who's been in the evangelical community for 25 years and never ever experienced anything real?

I'd love a real encounter, it'd make things so much easier. I'm not holding my breath anymore though.

A friend sent me this as well, claiming that someone had been raised from the dead at these meetings. When I asked for some proof (that kind of thing should be all over the news) she of course said she didn't have any.

I agree with Tricky, video or pictures or doctor's witness of a limb being regrown would go a long way to convincing me. And not just one, if it's a real revival there should be a list of real verifiable miracles as long as a regrown arm. This kind of evidence shouldn't be subjective, it should be self apparent. Doubting these miracles, if they were real, should be at the same level as doubting my car exists.

Yet I wager we'll find that all the reports will evaporate under any serious scrutiny. I would love to be shown incorrect though.

[Mister Agenda]

That's been my experience...these 'miracles' evaporate when you start looking at them closely. The claim gets smaller and smaller the more you find out about it. It turns out they weren't diagnosed by a doctor, or that the symptoms returned later, or it's the kind of thing known to get better or go into remission on its own. The group think at a revival is amazing, short of feeding everyone LSD I can't think of a better way to reduce the reliability of witnesses than a revival. Instead of believing what they see, they see what they believe.