What are your irrational beliefs?

[Silentknight]

This is not a comfortable topic for me to broach, but it's even harder for me to neglect, for I feel that anything else would be less than honest. Back when the question was posed as to whether or not everyone had irrational beliefs, I was quick to answer yes, the reason being that my own irrational beliefs spring readily to mind. I am always firm in my stance on the application of reason and skepticism, and my demand for evidence, and yet there are personal beliefs I hold which I am fully aware do not live up to these standards.

It has long been my belief that an outspoken skeptic like myself could readily get along with people regardless of what their own beliefs are. If there were any differences of opinion, then it's a simple matter of reasoning with them, for such is my faith in humanity that I still operate under the pretense that I can help people better understand me by explaining my own views. After all, there is no harm in openly debating people's most cherished convictions, especially if they're your friends. If we both place our beliefs on the table for discussion, we may even learn something from each other.
This belief is completely irrational, because it has already been proven wrong to me time and time again. I know I am ill equipped for this role due to my tendency to be tactless and offensive. I know that people are often sensitive about their religious beliefs, and will become defensive especially if I insist on subjecting them to debate. I have little evidence if any that I have made a sound judgment about how people will react to this treatment, in my assumption that everyone is on the same page and understands the difference between disagreement and a personal affront. Yet I have found myself unable to change my mind on this matter, and continue to act as if it were true.

It is another belief of mine that I will live to see the end of religion as we know it, specifically that the most dangerous of our religious beliefs are on their last breath and are not long for this world. I could even say that I have faith that people will learn to stop killing each other on the basis of religion, or that religion will cease to be the leading cause of armed conflict in the world. The religions of today will be unrecognizable by the time I'm old and gray, and the notion of raising one's children to hate other children on the basis of how or what they worship will be viewed as appallingly ignorant.
This too is an irrational belief, for there is little if any evidence that such a thing is possible, or that it even has a chance of happening. Escalation is occurring all over the world, and religious fundamentalists are always discovering petty reasons to act on their hatred. I have wavered constantly between optimism and cynicism, and back again, until the two have become indistinguishable from each other. My criticism of religious extremism, in a way, is cynicism stemming from an irrational hope for an unlikely change and an improbable future. I have no realistic reason to believe that conflicts over religion will end for as long as humans are human. Yet I still cling stubbornly to this belief.

The last belief I'd like to share is related, in that I believe that the human race will eventually outgrow its need for violence. To further, I believe that the human race will never destroy itself outright. We have already come this far and survived the discovery of atomic weapons.
But I have to admit right away that this belief is based on a lack of knowledge on my part. I've heard the arguments for and against atomic weapons, and how they relate to the face of war over the past six decades, and I am unsure what to think. I haven't fully examined either side of the debate, and yet I have already jumped to uninformed conclusions.
Violence may very well be an inseparable part of human nature. It's quite hypocritical for me to denounce it when it's not something I have been able to separate from myself. Nor is there any evidence that humanity as a whole is progressing towards the state that I so blindly believe in. Yet I see myself as having no choice but to hold this belief.


What are your thoughts? I realize that I have subjected myself to judgment, but this is always the case, and I wouldn't have done any less than speak my mind. What are your irrational beliefs?

[Dragoonster]

My morality. It's not based on any rationality, it's based on what I feel is right.

Same for any personal emotion, I don't base my loyalty to someone I love on rationality, I base it on the much stronger and more obvious emotion.

[Kopji]

I love rationality
It gives me a good feeling
I don't know why

[Xeriar]

I still hold on to the idea that everyone has an eternity ahead of them, somehow. Certainly not how Christians see it, but one form of eternal life or another.

[Complexity]

I'm having trouble coming up with any. I've been tearing into them as I discover them for a long time.

I don't share any of those mentioned so far.

[arthwollipot]

Ditto. I think I still have a conviction somewhere in the back of my mind that I can give up smoking any time I like. But that's about it.

[Beth]

Off the top of my head:

All men are created equal

People are basically good

Live is worth living

Sunsets are beautiful

[Silentknight]

I'm having trouble coming up with any. I've been tearing into them as I discover them for a long time.

I don't share any of those mentioned so far.

Ditto. I think I still have a conviction somewhere in the back of my mind that I can give up smoking any time I like. But that's about it.

Then I envy you, because I have been unable to shed my own, despite my best efforts at deconstructing them. It's either a matter of my being unaware of any rational basis for my beliefs, if one should exist, or a matter of my being aware of beliefs that others may have overlooked or taken for granted. I was going to ask if my own beliefs could possibly be justified, or failing that, debunked, but somehow I already know precisely why they make no sense. I had deemed them irrational because, the way I see them, they are ill informed conclusions based on limited knowledge.

I suppose a different question might be in order for those who have no irrational beliefs. What irrational beliefs have you had in the past, and how did you go about deconstructing them and changing your mind?

Note: This topic is partly a result of my being unable to sleep at night, and the kinds of things that I find swimming through my insomniac head.

[Fnord]

What are your irrational beliefs?


Love is forever.

[billydkid]

I believe my penis is normal sized.

[I Ratant]

Off the top of my head:

All men are created equal

People are basically good

Live is worth living

Sunsets are beautiful
.
The subject is -irrational- beliefs, not those that can be held without question. :)
Throwing a "not" in any of those would be irrational. ;)
.
Wait a minute... I just flashed on the poor schlumpfs that do live their lives adding that "not" to everything, and would consider your statements irrational.
Just before they strap on the bomb and go out to murder a bunch of people they've never met.

[Egg]

What are we counting as an irrational belief? Are we just talking about beliefs not based on any evidence or based on little or poor evidence?

Should irrational beliefs include things that are based on some evidence but induced using poor reasoning or a lack of imagination or knowledge to come up with other possible explanations?

I would imagine in most cases, those who are trying to apply skepticism to as much of their thinking as possible would probably not be aware of their irrational beliefs, otherwise they would have already examined them.

I find it highly unlikely that any of us don't have some if not many beliefs which could be considered to be irrational, but maybe that's just my own irrational belief :).

[I Ratant]

I believe my penis is normal sized.

I get e-mails from Germany telling me the folks over there laugh at the size of mine.
I didn't know the videos had gotten out.

[Silentknight]

What are we counting as an irrational belief? Are we just talking about beliefs not based on any evidence or based on little or poor evidence?

Should irrational beliefs include things that are based on some evidence but induced using poor reasoning or a lack of imagination or knowledge to come up with other possible explanations?
For the sake of my original question, I would say yes to all of the above.

I would imagine in most cases, those who are trying to apply skepticism to as much of their thinking as possible would probably not be aware of their irrational beliefs, otherwise they would have already examined them.
It's possible. For instance, I know I'm not infallible, and I know I've held some fairly questionable beliefs in the past: I used to believe that God answered prayers, or that he was watching over us all to the point where I was actually paranoid that he was breathing down my neck. I used to be a 9/11 truther who believed I could get arrested for speaking out against the president (using harsh and overtly threatening language, mind you).

I also know that no matter how thoroughly I double check my own thinking, such as when I check my work on a test at school or on a story I've written, I'm usually prone to making stupid mistakes and oversights. If mistakes have happened before, they can certainly happen again. This isn't to say that I'm completely distrustful of my own judgment, rather that I'm aware that I can only hope to come to as close an approximation of the truth as possible. There's always a small chance for error.
I find it highly unlikely that any of us don't have some if not many beliefs which could be considered to be irrational, but maybe that's just my own irrational belief :).

Same here. But again, I can't speak for anyone but myself.

[RobRoy]

It has long been my belief that an outspoken skeptic like myself could readily get along with people regardless of what their own beliefs are. If there were any differences of opinion, then it's a simple matter of reasoning with them, for such is my faith in humanity that I still operate under the pretense that I can help people better understand me by explaining my own views. After all, there is no harm in openly debating people's most cherished convictions, especially if they're your friends. If we both place our beliefs on the table for discussion, we may even learn something from each other.

I suffer this same delusion, although there have been times, few and far between, that I've been able to have a rational discussion with someone about their beliefs. It was very refreshing and enlightening. But those are exceptions that prove the rule.

I also like to believe that all people are basically good, but I find that one torn down on a daily basis. Mores the pity.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Similar to RobRoy's second comment (sort of), I can't shed the seemingly irrational belief that there is some good in all people.

I know intellectually that there are people like Charlie Manson out there but I regularly ignore the possibility in day to day life. I keep working on this one pretty regularly.

I'm sure there are others, but I'll have to add them as they occur to me. I love the topic, though.

[slingblade]

I'm having trouble coming up with any. I've been tearing into them as I discover them for a long time.

I don't share any of those mentioned so far.

That's pretty much how I feel. While I'm sure I still have some lurking in the deeper recesses of my mind, I haven't discovered them, or I'd have gotten rid of them. I usually find out a belief I hold is irrational when I merrily type it out in a post and thirty-seven people post back "YOU BELIEVE WHAT???" with a crapload of :jaw-dropp 's

I then go research it, find out I'm a moron, and come back with tail between hindquarters and fresh flagellation wounds on me back.

[RobRoy]

I'm sure there are others, but I'll have to add them as they occur to me. I love the topic, though.

What about every time you hear of another suicide bomber exploding in a public place? Not a military strike, mind you. A public shopping area or other crowded venue that maximizes the carnage. That always does it for me.

[skeptical]

That despite copious evidence to the contrary, with enough rational, reasoned argument, people can eventually be convinced to abandon irrational, unreasoned beliefs.

[slingblade]

That depends on what you mean by "some good" in everyone. Even an ax murderer or a suicide bomber can be kind to animals, or have fed a hungry person, or something at some point.

Doesn't make blowing up the crowded restaurant a decent act by any stretch, but yeah, one could find "some good" in everyone. It just wouldn't mean a whole hell of a lot when you're mopping up the blood.

[HasKey]

Well, I KNOW logically that it's fairly safe to fly in a plane. Irrationally, I get all sorts of flutters if I have to fly.

Also, I have the unshakable "feeling" that my wife is my "better half." By that I mean there is absolutely nobody in this world that makes me feel more complete than her. Yet, I know logically that most people fall in love with whoever is next to them. There may very well be hundreds of other women who could make me feel as complete as my love does. Irrationally, that "feeling" I have is unshakable to me.

Hmmmm, is being irrational for me always based on extremes? One is an extreme fear of dying, the other an extreme sense of contentedness. I have to think on that, but first thing in the mornings are tough on my old brain....(yes this late in the afternoon IS my morning)

Haskey

p.s. Oh wait, here's a non-extreme irrationality; I have faith SOMEDAY the Detroit Lions will win the Super Bowl! Yes, yes, call me deluded, I can handle it.

[ParanoidAndroid]

What about every time you hear of another suicide bomber exploding in a public place? Not a military strike, mind you. A public shopping area or other crowded venue that maximizes the carnage. That always does it for me.


Such incidents do indeed shake me back to reality, for sure. Somehow it's always fleeting, though, and all to soon I find myself again assuming that everyone I meet (at least face to face in every day life) must have some good in them. Upon consideration, this seems improbable.

Part of the problem for me is that I don't know how to loose the belief without becoming jaded.

:o

[RobRoy]

That depends on what you mean by "some good" in everyone. Even an ax murderer or a suicide bomber can be kind to animals, or have fed a hungry person, or something at some point.

My delusion is that people are "basically good", which is different than just "some good". Because yeah, some good can be found in just about everyone.

[ParanoidAndroid]

That despite copious evidence to the contrary, with enough rational, reasoned argument, people can eventually be convinced to abandon irrational, unreasoned beliefs.


Unless you frame it as an 'all-or-nothing' proposition, this seems to a be rational belief.

[ParanoidAndroid]

That depends on what you mean by "some good" in everyone. Even an ax murderer or a suicide bomber can be kind to animals, or have fed a hungry person, or something at some point.

Doesn't make blowing up the crowded restaurant a decent act by any stretch, but yeah, one could find "some good" in everyone. It just wouldn't mean a whole hell of a lot when you're mopping up the blood.


True enough. I guess more what I'm getting at is some sort of "good quality" that would somehow make them useful to society as a whole. Just feeding a hungry person once wouldn't do it for me. Devoting a percentage of time and effort to the homeless (or even a homeless person) might. Don't know, though; still rolling it around in my dome.

[ParanoidAndroid]

p.s. Oh wait, here's a non-extreme irrationality; I have faith SOMEDAY the Detroit Lions will win the Super Bowl! Yes, yes, call me deluded, I can handle it.


I'm not sure that's an irrational belief (given enough time); hoping against probability, perhaps. :D

[Skeptical Greg]

I have this idea that tossing babies from a 50 foot high wall will bring them good luck ..

[Moochie]

Tired of living, scared of dying...

M.

[ravdin]

Until recently, I believed that Phil Collins' best friend drowned in a boating accident and he wrote In The Air Tonight as revenge against the man who watched him die instead of helping him.

Like many good stories, it's completely untrue. Thanks, Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/music/songs/intheair.asp)! I'm sure I believe many other urban legends that have yet to be debunked.

[EatatJoes]

That despite copious evidence to the contrary, with enough rational, reasoned argument, people can eventually be convinced to abandon irrational, unreasoned beliefs.

Oh, that's a good one and I have that belief as well. 'sigh'

I will avoid all the other self deluding beliefs and focus on a silly one.

I suffer from "spooky" thoughts. For instance, I was up in our attic and I couldn't see around a corner real well. It was dark and just plain scary. After I got a flash light and could see, I still didn't want to enter the area. It freaked me out too much. The dark scares the crap out of me. There was nothing there that could hurt me, but I got the willies and that was enough for me to not venture into that area.

[Nogbad]

Saluting single magpies



:con2:

[Veleria]

I believe, on some level, that if I try to be a good person, I will have a good life.
I believe this, even though I know that life doesn't work like that. Sometimes bad things just happen, even to Ghandi.

Irrational belief?

[slingblade]

Tired of living, scared of dying...

M.

Yeah, boy, do I know how that feels. :( :hug5

I'm a moron--I have plenty of irrational fears! Forgot all about those, or didn't count them as beliefs because I know they aren't true, but they still scare me.

Afraid to fly, afraid to be up too high, afraid I'll be buried alive, stuff like that.

[Nogbad]

I believe, on some level, that if I try to be a good person, I will have a good life.
I believe this, even though I know that life doesn't work like that. Sometimes bad things just happen, even to Ghandi.

Irrational belief?

Try saluting single magpies more.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I believe, on some level, that if I try to be a good person, I will have a good life.
I believe this, even though I know that life doesn't work like that. Sometimes bad things just happen, even to Ghandi.

Irrational belief?


I suffer from this one too.

[Magyar]

I will not buy a lottery ticket from the same place EVER.
I only buy them if I am traveling around for work, but will go out of my way ( I use my tomtom to find alternate routes to get home) to find a store that I have never been to.

I have no idea why! I don't believe in Luck or good vibes or anything of the sort and I don't think that my odds will improve or anything like that.

[Veleria]

I'll just pretend to know what that means and give it a shot. Thanks. ;-)

[EatatJoes]

Try saluting single magpies more.

No way man, even though I don't know why. - irrational belief #1255

[ParanoidAndroid]

Try saluting single magpies more.


Just out of curiosity, is 'saluting' employed as a colloquial term for 'pelting' :p

[Nogbad]

Just out of curiosity, is 'saluting' employed as a colloquial term for 'pelting' :p

Not tried that ;)

Silly superstition my mother passed on. Walking behind her when she was cooking was a bit scary too as she was as likely as not to lob salt over her shoulder.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Not tried that ;)

Silly superstition my mother passed on.


Again, out of curiosity (and ignorance), what's the story behind the magpie superstition?

[Nogbad]

Again, out of curiosity (and ignorance), what's the story behind the magpie superstition?

A single magpie is considered unlucky. In Scottish tradition a single magpie can signify a death in the house. There is also a poem that goes with it

One for sorrow, two for joy
three for a girl, four for a boy
five for silver, six for gold
seven for a secret never to be told
eight for a wish, nine for a kiss
ten for a bird better to miss

If one sees a single magpie the bad luck can be averted by showing it respect i.e. saluting it....or you can check to see if there are two (and walk into something and perpetuate the bad luck thing :D )

[RobRoy]

I suffer from "spooky" thoughts. For instance, I was up in our attic and I couldn't see around a corner real well. It was dark and just plain scary. After I got a flash light and could see, I still didn't want to enter the area. It freaked me out too much. The dark scares the crap out of me. There was nothing there that could hurt me, but I got the willies and that was enough for me to not venture into that area.

Oh, well, if we're going in that direction, I suffer arachnophobia. I have a hard time even writing that out without my hands being sweaty . . .yep, there it is. I must now move on.

Silly superstition my mother passed on. Walking behind her when she was cooking was a bit scary too as she was as likely as not to lob salt over her shoulder.

Interesting. I wouldn't even know a magpie if one landed on my shoulder. Is there good eating on these birds, or would that be similar to killing the albatross?

[Dragoonster]

p.s. Oh wait, here's a non-extreme irrationality; I have faith SOMEDAY the Detroit Lions will win the Super Bowl! Yes, yes, call me deluded, I can handle it.

This is actually a legit irrationality for me. Usually I'll have very strong feelings that a certain team is going to score or otherwise bring about a likely outcome of a game. If my team (Redskins) is say, down 14-20 to the Cowboys and gets a TD with a minute left to go up 21-20, I'll just know that the 'boys will get a game-winning drive or FG. I'll slack back and shake my head, resigning myself to depression even while we have the lead. Maybe it's a defense mechanism, where after a certain amount of heartbreak we protect ourselves from being too optimistic. But it could be even more, I do sometimes actually believe that how I react sitting in front of the TV is going to somehow alter the outcome. Anyway yeah, sports does bring a lot of irrational beliefs/hopes from fans.

Good luck getting the Super Bowl btw, Barry Sanders was/is my all-time favorite player :)

[ParanoidAndroid]

Interesting. I wouldn't even know a magpie if one landed on my shoulder. Is there good eating on these birds, or would that be similar to killing the albatross?


It would be more like eating a small black and white crow or raven, if memory serves. They show up occasionally to harass other birds here in Colorado.

[RobRoy]

It would be more like eating a small black and white crow or raven, if memory serves. They show up occasionally to harass other birds here in Colorado.

So they're mostly dark meat? A crock pot kind of meal?

[ParanoidAndroid]

So they're mostly dark meat? A crock pot kind of meal?


lol...at best; use lots of seasoning/(reasoning). ;)

[ParanoidAndroid]

This is actually a legit irrationality for me. Usually I'll have very strong feelings that a certain team is going to score or otherwise bring about a likely outcome of a game. If my team (Redskins) is say, down 14-20 to the Cowboys and gets a TD with a minute left to go up 21-20, I'll just know that the 'boys will get a game-winning drive or FG. I'll slack back and shake my head, resigning myself to depression even while we have the lead. Maybe it's a defense mechanism, where after a certain amount of heartbreak we protect ourselves from being too optimistic. But it could be even more, I do sometimes actually believe that how I react sitting in front of the TV is going to somehow alter the outcome. Anyway yeah, sports does bring a lot of irrational beliefs/hopes from fans.

Good luck getting the Super Bowl btw, Barry Sanders was/is my all-time favorite player :)


The belief that I can somehow affect the outcome of a game is something I only got (mostly) rid of about 5 years ago...used to only use a Bronco lighter during the (American) football season, believing that to do otherwise would somehow jinx them. When I kicked cigarettes, the light came on for me and I stopped (for the most part) believing in the "power of the lighter"...still working on this one a little, if I'm being totally honest.

:blush:

[MattusMaximus]

As Penn Jilette once said: "Everybody got a gris-gris." :)

I have a "lucky" coin that I always carry. If I can't find the damn thing, I freak out. Once I thought I'd lost it, and I could barely sleep for two days.

Stupid, but true - especially since I don't really believe in luck :rolleyes:

[I Ratant]

A single magpie is considered unlucky. In Scottish tradition a single magpie can signify a death in the house. ..

I had a single magpie as a pet while in Germany. And sure enough, 7 years later, my father died while we were in Virginia.
.
Magpies are small members of the crow family. Them's not good eatin' . :)
I've watched ravens, the principal scavengers locally, not scavenge dead ravens!

[Complexity]

Then I envy you, because I have been unable to shed my own, despite my best efforts at deconstructing them. It's either a matter of my being unaware of any rational basis for my beliefs, if one should exist, or a matter of my being aware of beliefs that others may have overlooked or taken for granted. I was going to ask if my own beliefs could possibly be justified, or failing that, debunked, but somehow I already know precisely why they make no sense. I had deemed them irrational because, the way I see them, they are ill informed conclusions based on limited knowledge.


Don't be too envious. Living with mental illness has led me to question everything again and again. I've done away with a great deal and regard what is left as tentative at best. Sometimes it is like being a mature dandelion feeling the first wisp of a breeze. A little too close to Phaedrus for comfort.


I suppose a different question might be in order for those who have no irrational beliefs. What irrational beliefs have you had in the past, and how did you go about deconstructing them and changing your mind?


My main woo? I was religious for many years. While I was religious, I was deeply conflicted. Eventually, honesty and integrity won out, and I couldn no longer sustain the conflict. I resolved the untenable situation in the right way, though it took years.

Another bit of past woo - I thought I was invulnerable. It was made painfully obvious to me that I was not.

[not to be used against me if we ever meet]I do have arachnophobia. I'm not sure it is irrational. I don't want to think about it.[/not to be used against me if we ever meet]

[Morrigan]

Don't know if it counts but I am afraid of heights even when there's nothing to fear. I enjoy roller coasters and climbing and all (I like the feeling of thrill and adrenaline), but for instance when I visited the Reichstag in Berlin and climbed up the great glass dome, seeing so far below me made my stomach flutter, even when there is zero danger. I kept repeating this in my head ("there is no danger, there is no danger") as some sort of mantra to calm my nerves. I felt completely foolish when I saw little kids run past me and I was making my way very slowly, but I couldn't help it. :newlol :(

[arthwollipot]

I don't like heights much either. I don't think it's particularly irrational.

[RobRoy]

As Penn Jilette once said: "Everybody got a gris-gris." :)

I have a "lucky" coin that I always carry. If I can't find the damn thing, I freak out. Once I thought I'd lost it, and I could barely sleep for two days.

Stupid, but true - especially since I don't really believe in luck :rolleyes:

Oh, I can equate to that too. I have a book mark that my best friend gave me when we were in 6th grade. I won't say how long ago that was, but it's the only book mark I like to use. I didn't start out that way. I used to have a ton, many that I made when I thought I could draw (I can't). Now it's in one of those plastic sheaths that the newer marks come in. I bought a new one, gave it to my wife, kept the sheath to protect it and still use the mark. I'd freak if I ever lost it. No luck, but it's certainly a talisman of some kind.

It is easily the oldest thing I own.

[arthwollipot]

I still feel that certain pieces of jewelry have significance. I own a few pieces (amulets and rings mostly - and one earring) that I still won't wear because they were given to me by particular people for particular reasons, and it just doesn't feel right now that the reasons have changed.

[slingblade]

What is luck? Is it always irrational? Could two (or more) highly--astronomically--unlikely events coincide in such a way that we wouldn't be invoking any woo to say, "Wow, now that was lucky?"

I'm thinking it isn't always wooish to look at past events and consider them a case of good or bad luck. It is at other times, certainly. I also think it's obviously more irrational if you try to rely on luck for future events; to live as if you're going to be lucky, someday, or you are lucky. Like...spending too much on lotto tickets, or shrugging off that you don't have a condom for your date...

Is the idea of luck always an irrational belief?

[arthwollipot]

No, I don't think so.

The idea of being able to affect your luck, by wearing amulets or avoiding black cats, or whatever, is irrational.

[Egg]

What is luck? Is it always irrational? Could two (or more) highly--astronomically--unlikely events coincide in such a way that we wouldn't be invoking any woo to say, "Wow, now that was lucky?"

I'm thinking it isn't always wooish to look at past events and consider them a case of good or bad luck. It is at other times, certainly. I also think it's obviously more irrational if you try to rely on luck for future events; to live as if you're going to be lucky, someday, or you are lucky. Like...spending too much on lotto tickets, or shrugging off that you don't have a condom for your date...

Is the idea of luck always an irrational belief?

Not if you use the word "luck" in terms of probability. If an unlikely event goes your way, that can be called "lucky" or "fortunate" without any irrational beliefs.

I think it's only when you think there's something unrelated that you can do to influence luck or if you think of "luck" in terms of some kind of force or power.

[fishbob]

I believe I don't have any.

[arthwollipot]

Not if you use the word "luck" in terms of probability. If an unlikely event goes your way, that can be called "lucky" or "fortunate" without any irrational beliefs.

I think it's only when you think there's something unrelated that you can do to influence luck or if you think of "luck" in terms of some kind of force or power.I think that's what I just said. :D

[Skeptical Greg]

I believe I don't have any.

That sounds irrational....

[westprog]

A single magpie is considered unlucky. In Scottish tradition a single magpie can signify a death in the house. There is also a poem that goes with it

One for sorrow, two for joy
three for a girl, four for a boy
five for silver, six for gold
seven for a secret never to be told
eight for a wish, nine for a kiss
ten for a bird better to miss

If one sees a single magpie the bad luck can be averted by showing it respect i.e. saluting it....or you can check to see if there are two (and walk into something and perpetuate the bad luck thing :D )


Magpies are carrion birds. I've spent a couple of hours digging a grave with about twenty magpies looking on. They know when something is dying. I can easily imagine that someone could translate the appearance of the magpie when death is on the way to the appearance of the magpie causing the death.

[Showmeproof]

My irrational belief for quite sometime was the negative view I had about females. I guess this view sprung from a break-up with a past partner. For the most part I have outgrown this belief, but I believe the demons are still lurking waiting to come out when another intimate relationship goes sour.

[Silentknight]

Don't be too envious. Living with mental illness has led me to question everything again and again. I've done away with a great deal and regard what is left as tentative at best. Sometimes it is like being a mature dandelion feeling the first wisp of a breeze. A little too close to Phaedrus for comfort.

My main woo? I was religious for many years. While I was religious, I was deeply conflicted. Eventually, honesty and integrity won out, and I could no longer sustain the conflict. I resolved the untenable situation in the right way, though it took years.
That's something I can relate to on all counts. I had literally tried everything to cope with my problems (barring substance abuse, mind you) but it wasn't until I adopted a dogged pursuit of logic and reason that I was able to maintain a firmer grasp on reality. I was already aware that there was a good chance that a lot of the things I believed were ill founded or wrong, so I learned to question, not just ideas I disagreed with, but my own convictions as well.

Another bit of past woo - I thought I was invulnerable. It was made painfully obvious to me that I was not.

[not to be used against me if we ever meet]I do have arachnophobia. I'm not sure it is irrational. I don't want to think about it.[/not to be used against me if we ever meet]
Well, since we're never going to meet:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/9/93/Clock_legs.sized.jpg/180px-Clock_legs.sized.jpg

Don't know if it counts but I am afraid of heights even when there's nothing to fear. I enjoy roller coasters and climbing and all (I like the feeling of thrill and adrenaline), but for instance when I visited the Reichstag in Berlin and climbed up the great glass dome, seeing so far below me made my stomach flutter, even when there is zero danger. I kept repeating this in my head ("there is no danger, there is no danger") as some sort of mantra to calm my nerves. I felt completely foolish when I saw little kids run past me and I was making my way very slowly, but I couldn't help it. :newlol :(

It's not the heights themselves you have to fear, it's falling from said heights. Actually it's not the fall either, but the sudden stop at the end. :D

[Dogdoctor]

I think skepticism is a process that never ends. Being human, we are less than perfect in our evaluation of the world. If you are a skeptic then you try to eliminate those beliefs that aren't supported by the data you have. However because we are humans we don't have all the data in the world so you have to seek out data and change your beliefs to match what the data shows. If you cannot rid yourself of a belief lacking conclusive data to support it then you should temper that belief with uncertainty. So if you hold a belief that you know is wrong then you aren't skeptical about that belief. If you hold a belief that might be wrong then you should be uncertain that it is true. If you hold a belief that has very little to support it then you should be very uncertain about it.

[RobRoy]

I think skepticism is a process that never ends. Being human, we are less than perfect in our evaluation of the world.

Agreed. I'm actually quite gullible by nature. My first reaction is actually to believe what I'm being told. Over the years, I've developed an automatic response to such instant belief in that I don't so much deny what I've been told as literal truth, but instead start to pick apart the story, compare it with similar, look at the "facts" and then, if possible, conduct some measure of research to verify. Friends and relatives now come to me to see if certain urban myths are true or not.

It only took three run-ins with poor, defenseless children from Somalia to cure me. I hope those kids got the cashier's checks I sent. I never heard back from them.

[Third Eye Open]

I have this deeply ingrained irrational belief that other people are sentient.






[EDIT] KAPOW!! Post 100!

[Morrigan]

I don't like heights much either. I don't think it's particularly irrational.

Fearing hights (or as Silentknight said, falling from heights ;)), no, but it -was- irrational to be afraid to climb that particular ramp in in the Reichstag: there was no danger, yet I felt stupidly nervous and had to struggle a bit to calm myself heh.

[HasKey]

I'm not sure that's an irrational belief (given enough time); hoping against probability, perhaps. :D

It's obvious you don't follow the Lions :o

Trust me it's an irrational belief, goes way beyond odds. :p

Haskey

[HasKey]

Don't know if it counts but I am afraid of heights even when there's nothing to fear.(

Here's something odd. I think I have a fear of heights, but ONLY in my dreams. I get a recurring dream where I'm on one of those outside the building elevators, only it has no glass walls, just open to the air, and I'm PETRIFIED!

In reality, I don't mind heights at all, in hotels I pick the highest one for the great view, go figure. /shrug

Haskey

[HasKey]

Good luck getting the Super Bowl btw, Barry Sanders was/is my all-time favorite player :)

Luck has nothing to do with, I still think a human sacrifice (I won't name names) and a headless chicken is required for the Lions to win the Super Bowl. :)

As far as Barry Sanders, the Lions even messed that up. He was absolutely brilliant and he QUIT early because the Lions are the Lions. Anyway, enough derailing of this fine thread.

:D

Haskey

[temper mental]

Not tried that ;)

Silly superstition my mother passed on. Walking behind her when she was cooking was a bit scary too as she was as likely as not to lob salt over her shoulder.

I actually do the salt thing still. When I was a kid, I used to hold my breath passing cemetaries, raise my feet off the floorboard when driving over railroad tracks, make a wish at 11:11, and I always had concerns about breaking a mirror. I have let all these go of course, as well as other silly beliefs, but I still do the salt thing. It's a compulsion.

[HasKey]

...raise my feet off the floorboard when driving over railroad tracks...

My mother said when going UNDER a train track bridge, you had to close your eyes and make a wish, but she said the wish had to always be that the train didn't come crashing down upon you. :)
So far my wishes always come true there.

Haskey

[RobRoy]

I actually do the salt thing still. When I was a kid, I used to hold my breath passing cemetaries, raise my feet off the floorboard when driving over railroad tracks, make a wish at 11:11, and I always had concerns about breaking a mirror. I have let all these go of course, as well as other silly beliefs, but I still do the salt thing. It's a compulsion.

Where does the salt thing come from?

[e11even]

I have become aware that when I am completely sure about anything I am always wrong.
However, my irrational behavior continues on, just the same, regardless.

[I Ratant]

Something to contemplate..
A -sidewalk- across the Grand Canyon.
Or even better, a -transparent- sidewalk across the Grand Canyon.
I wonder how many folks would vertigo themselves off the edge? :)

[Dragoonster]

Fearing hights (or as Silentknight said, falling from heights ;)), no, but it -was- irrational to be afraid to climb that particular ramp in in the Reichstag: there was no danger, yet I felt stupidly nervous and had to struggle a bit to calm myself heh.

Maybe it was a physical reaction? I'm afraid of heights too but have also climbed/hiked and peered over huge drop-offs without much problem. But one time I experienced vertigo after going to the top of a hotel in Atlanta and looking over the railing. Had to drop to one knee and sort of crawl to the elevator heh.

I remembered another--since I was a kid if I've slept with both legs outside of the covering sheet or blanket I had a feeling that an axe murderer would chop them both off. I "solved" this by just putting one outside the sheet (he can't chop even one off unless both are outside for some reason); funny thing is that feeling persists to this day and I still feel at risk when both are outside.

As far as Barry Sanders, the Lions even messed that up. He was absolutely brilliant and he QUIT early because the Lions are the Lions.

Ugh yeah, that was sad but he seemed very loyal at the same time.

hey, at least you won't have Favre to worry about anymore in the division!

[bokonon]

Something to contemplate..
A -sidewalk- across the Grand Canyon.
Or even better, a -transparent- sidewalk across the Grand Canyon.
I wonder how many folks would vertigo themselves off the edge? :)There is a transparent observation deck overhanging the Grand Canyon. Early reports are that it is a hellish waste of time, run by people who deceptively manipulate tourists to separate them from the maximum amount of cash possible, but I haven't heard anyone complaining about vertigo.

[RandomJSF]

I'm honestly nor sure how many actual irrational beliefs I have, but here's a few random traditions that I do hold to, mostly things that have been passed down to me from others in my family.

First, there's the ever-so-classical idea of being able to "jinx" something by talking about it. For example... Say that it's a quiet night at work. I don't like to mention that it's nice and quiet, because so many members of my family have held to the superstition that talking about it will "jinx" it, and suddenly we'll be slammed with work.

Along with the above is the idea of "knocking on wood". If you do say something that will serve as a "jinx", then, to mitigate the damage, you must knock on wood. Specifically, three times, one for each word in the sentence, "knock on wood".

I'll stick to the above traditions out of humor's sake, nothing more than that.

Oh, and here's a funny one that my much older cousin passed on to me. Whenever a digital clock reads the same digits when you happen to glance at it, you're supposed to make a wish. I mean at 1:11pm, 5:55pm, 11:11am, etc.. Any time the digits are ALL the same (not counting any beginning zero, as in 02:22).

It doesn't work if you look at the clock at 11:10, and keep waiting till it reads 11:11. You could glance at 11:00, and then happen to look again at 11:11, but you can't do it on purpose.

Again, something I do for humor's sake, and mostly in homage to my cousin, who I was once very close to. So far, my success rate with such wishes has been rather bad, but eh...

[slingblade]

Here's something odd. I think I have a fear of heights, but ONLY in my dreams. I get a recurring dream where I'm on one of those outside the building elevators, only it has no glass walls, just open to the air, and I'm PETRIFIED!

That's the moment in my dreams I realize I'm dreaming, and I run to the nearest opening, leap out, and fly away. I love those dreams.

In reality, I don't mind heights at all, in hotels I pick the highest one for the great view, go figure. /shrug

Haskey

In reality, I'm petrified of heights, and don't get on airplanes. Go figure. ;)

[ParanoidAndroid]

It's obvious you don't follow the Lions :o

Trust me it's an irrational belief, goes way beyond odds. :p

Haskey


You might be right. I do follow them a little, more recently since you guys have been exchanging players with my Broncos. ;)

You should check out the NFL threads in the sports section (unless your not as big a football junkie as me).

[NonCleverName]

My morality. It's not based on any rationality, it's based on what I feel is right.

Same for any personal emotion, I don't base my loyalty to someone I love on rationality, I base it on the much stronger and more obvious emotion.

This is why I don't have ''friends'' and I don't speak to my family anymore. I have reasoned that family is illogical. Why interact with them? Just because they are my ''family''? No, thank you. If I met them on the street, I wouldn't consider them special.

Now don't get me wrong. I have ALLIANCES and I have intellectual ''buddies'', if you will. I have people that I am nice to in order to advance in college and other areas. I also have intellectual buddies, whom I debate/discuss philosophy with. Namely, the people on philosophy/science forums.

You may think that I am lonely if I isolate myself from ''emotional'' relationships, but that's simply not the case. I have a very beautiful girlfriend whom I spend most of my time with. Who needs friends and/or family when you have a beautiful girlfriend and a lot of intellectual buddies?

[billydkid]

Well, I KNOW logically that it's fairly safe to fly in a plane. Irrationally, I get all sorts of flutters if I have to fly.


I don't actually think that is all that irrational. Yes, it is unlikely the plane is going to crash, but it would certainly be easy for it to crash. Is it putting yourself at risk to get into a machine, designed and controlled by other human beings which is going to take you up 10's of thousands of feet into the sky and is only going to hold you there by virtue of going very fast through the air? Is being afraid of heights irrational? I don't think so. Humans are designed to be afraid of heights. While it may be irrational to believe the plane is going to crash or is likely to crash, I don't think it's really irrational to have certain visceral misgivings about being put in a position that is so vulnerable and completely unnatural for human beings.

[slingblade]

This is why I don't have ''friends'' and I don't speak to my family anymore. I have reasoned that family is illogical. Why interact with them? Just because they are my ''family''? No, thank you. If I met them on the street, I wouldn't consider them special.

Strangers on the street don't love you. Now, if your family doesn't love you, either, more power to ya.

Your girlfriend will likely be temporary, though. Unless she's also asocial, she probably wants a "family" at some point, and since you have no use for family, don't be surprised if she discovers one day she has no use for you.

Just saying.

[Upchurch]

Roughly life-sized dolls.

If they can stand on their own, I firmly believe they can come to life when you aren't looking at them. If they come to life when you aren't looking them, I firmly believe they have every intention of killing you in your sleep.

I have an irrational hatred of roughly life-sized dolls.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Roughly life-sized dolls.

If they can stand on their own, I firmly believe they can come to life when you aren't looking at them. If they come to life when you aren't looking them, I firmly believe they have every intention of killing you in your sleep.

I have an irrational hatred of roughly life-sized dolls.

LOL, my sister had that about regular dolls.

She had them all along the top of her dresser... With them facing the wall so they wouldn't stare at her :p .

I actually thought that made them creepier.

[SirPhilip]

What are your irrational beliefs? Kate Winslet is still a virgin.

[Moochie]

This is why I don't have ''friends'' and I don't speak to my family anymore. I have reasoned that family is illogical. Why interact with them? Just because they are my ''family''? No, thank you. If I met them on the street, I wouldn't consider them special.

Now don't get me wrong. I have ALLIANCES and I have intellectual ''buddies'', if you will. I have people that I am nice to in order to advance in college and other areas. I also have intellectual buddies, whom I debate/discuss philosophy with. Namely, the people on philosophy/science forums.

You may think that I am lonely if I isolate myself from ''emotional'' relationships, but that's simply not the case. I have a very beautiful girlfriend whom I spend most of my time with. Who needs friends and/or family when you have a beautiful girlfriend and a lot of intellectual buddies?

I prefer cats.

M.

[Beth]

This is why I don't have ''friends'' and I don't speak to my family anymore. I have reasoned that family is illogical. Why interact with them? Just because they are my ''family''? No, thank you. If I met them on the street, I wouldn't consider them special.

I can understand why you might feel that way, but if they love you, you are hurting them by not speaking to them. I never knew how much my parents loved me until I had my first child. Then I knew because only then did I know how much love a parent is capable of feeling for their child.

If they raised you reasonably well, a phone call on major holidays isn't too much. On the other hand, as Slingblade put it: Now, if your family doesn't love you, either, more power to ya.

But as nice a person as you seem from your posts, I think someone must of loved you when you were growing up. The antisocial part of you is just, well, some of us are just naturally introverted. Your family already knows about that aspect of you.

[arthwollipot]

My mother said when going UNDER a train track bridge, you had to close your eyes and make a wish, but she said the wish had to always be that the train didn't come crashing down upon you. :)
So far my wishes always come true there.That sounds like tremedously bad luck if you do it while driving...

[temper mental]

Where does the salt thing come from?

" An old English belief has it that every grain of salt spilled represents future tears. The Germans believe that whoever spills salt arouses enmity, because it is thought to be the direct act of the devil, the peace disturber. The French throw a little spilled salt behind them in order to hit the devil in the eye, to temporarily prevent further mischief. In the United States, some people not only toss a pinch of spilled salt over the left shoulder, but crawl under the table and come out the opposite side."

"Jesus called his disciples "the Salt of the Earth." In Leonardo DaVinci's famous painting, "The Last Supper," Judas Escariot has just spilled a bowl of salt - a portent of evil and bad luck. To this day, the tradition endures that someone who spills salt should throw a pinch over his left shoulder to ward off any devils that may be lurking behind."

"In Buddhist tradition, salt repels evil spirits. That's why it's customary to throw salt over your shoulder before entering your house after a funeral: it scares off any evil spirits that may be clinging to your back."

"Shinto religion also uses salt to purify an area. Before sumo wrestlers enter the ring for a match - which is actually an elaborate Shinto rite - a handful of salt is thrown into the center to drive off malevolent spirits."

Religious people apparently have a salt fetish.
Stupidly, I throw salt over my left shoulder if I spill it.

[temper mental]

Roughly life-sized dolls.

If they can stand on their own, I firmly believe they can come to life when you aren't looking at them. If they come to life when you aren't looking them, I firmly believe they have every intention of killing you in your sleep.

I have an irrational hatred of roughly life-sized dolls.

1/2 sized mannequins and dolls will kill you too. Have you never seen Twilight zone? The doll and the mannequin are killers. Then there's that horrible movie with Kim Catrall, which I think has caused thousands of people to off themselves. Not that she caused the suicides herself, but she did prolong Andrew McCarthey's career, which I think is worthy of execution.

[Furi]

I have the irrational belief that I am mostly rational.

oh and there is that whole kitty thing as well. (but that is hardly irrational is it *mreeeuph*)

[Bikewer]

That Humanism remains a viable philosophy for human beings, and will someday attain widespread acceptance....

[RobRoy]

Religious people apparently have a salt fetish.
Stupidly, I throw salt over my left shoulder if I spill it.

Thanks. I always wondered.

[Ocelot]

" An old English belief has it that every grain of salt spilled represents future tears. The Germans believe that whoever spills salt arouses enmity, because it is thought to be the direct act of the devil, the peace disturber. The French throw a little spilled salt behind them in order to hit the devil in the eye, to temporarily prevent further mischief. In the United States, some people not only toss a pinch of spilled salt over the left shoulder, but crawl under the table and come out the opposite side."

"Jesus called his disciples "the Salt of the Earth." In Leonardo DaVinci's famous painting, "The Last Supper," Judas Escariot has just spilled a bowl of salt - a portent of evil and bad luck. To this day, the tradition endures that someone who spills salt should throw a pinch over his left shoulder to ward off any devils that may be lurking behind."

"In Buddhist tradition, salt repels evil spirits. That's why it's customary to throw salt over your shoulder before entering your house after a funeral: it scares off any evil spirits that may be clinging to your back."

"Shinto religion also uses salt to purify an area. Before sumo wrestlers enter the ring for a match - which is actually an elaborate Shinto rite - a handful of salt is thrown into the center to drive off malevolent spirits."

Religious people apparently have a salt fetish.
Stupidly, I throw salt over my left shoulder if I spill it.

Also of course salt was once far more valuable than it is today. It has even been used a currency. Roman soldiers were paid in salt from which we get the term Salary. Spilling salt was therefore bad luck in the same way that losing money is. Rather than being a portent of bad luck to come, losing money is itself unfortunate.

[arthwollipot]

1/2 sized mannequins and dolls will kill you too. Have you never seen Twilight zone? The doll and the mannequin are killers. Then there's that horrible movie with Kim Catrall, which I think has caused thousands of people to off themselves. Not that she caused the suicides herself, but she did prolong Andrew McCarthey's career, which I think is worthy of execution.And there was also that episode of Buffy...

[aggle-rithm]

I believe in warm, wet, sloppy kisses, despite the fact that I have no direct evidence that they actually exist.

:(

[Furi]

I believe in warm, wet, sloppy kisses, despite the fact that I have no direct evidence that they actually exist.

:(

Eat a juicy burger and the go find a puppy.

[MarkRandall]

I apologize if this was mentioned along the way (I skimmed over part of the pages of posts) but there's a difference between correct beliefs, incorrect beliefs and irrational beliefs. Many of the examples cited in this thread seem to be examples of incorrect beliefs, not irrational beliefs. For example:

Scenario: You are watching a "guess if this ball is under the cup" trick by a magician.

Correct Belief : The ball is under the cup
Incorrect Belief : The ball is not under the cup
Irrational Belief : Wow, this cup really likes me. I think it wants to go out with me.

Ok, I'm being a just a wee bit facetious but the point stands that being incorrect about something is not the same as being irrational about it. You might have purely rational reasons that lead you to your incorrect belief.

[Furi]

Stop being so rational about irrationality, damnit

besides just because the cup dumped me in preferance to some shallow saucer doesn't mean it couldn't of worked where's your sense of adventure

[westprog]

LOL, my sister had that about regular dolls.

She had them all along the top of her dresser... With them facing the wall so they wouldn't stare at her :p .

I actually thought that made them creepier.

It would be if you crept into her room and turned one of them around.

[RobRoy]

And there was also that episode of Buffy...

I don't recall a doll/mannequin episode in "Buffy". I do recall a Muppet-type episode in "Angel". Is that what you meant?

[Comic Store Guy]Funniest. Episode. Ever.[/Comic Store Guy]

[Last of the Fraggles]

Doesn't the fact that you know these things are 'irrational' kind of disqualify them as 'beliefs'

The OP kind of reads like I used to hope these things were true but now I really think they aren't even though I want them to be. That's not an irrational belief in my book. That's holding onto a forlorn hope inspite of evidence.

If you actually thought all people were good even though they keep kicking you in the nuts and couldn't see that it might be irrational of you then it might qualify.

[Ichneumonwasp]

Off the top of my head:

All men are created equal

You've never been to the beach, have you?


People are basically good


You've never been to the beach, have you?


Live is worth living

Sunsets are beautiful

Oh, wait, you have been to the beach.

:)

[Silentknight]

Doesn't the fact that you know these things are 'irrational' kind of disqualify them as 'beliefs'

The OP kind of reads like I used to hope these things were true but now I really think they aren't even though I want them to be. That's not an irrational belief in my book. That's holding onto a forlorn hope inspite of evidence.

If you actually thought all people were good even though they keep kicking you in the nuts and couldn't see that it might be irrational of you then it might qualify.

You might be right. I just wasn't sure how to qualify them if not as irrational beliefs. I'm aware that they fly in the face of evidence, and are therefore irrational, yet they're still beliefs that I hold. I suppose that such a belief could be regarded as a forlorn hope once you become aware of it, and the reasons for it being irrational.

[Last of the Fraggles]

I'm aware that they fly in the face of evidence, and are therefore irrational, yet they're still beliefs that I hold.

But something doesn't sit right.

It doesn't read that you actually believe these things.

Or maybe its that you do believe them but think the evidence does support them but that many people might disagree with you?

Either you are disbelieving the belief or disbelieving the 'evidence' is actually as it seems.

|the fact that you've actually thought about it means its probably not an irrational belief.

[IMST]

the harmony should ALWAYS be as loud as the melody. The melody will cut through and everything will sound awsome.

[arthwollipot]

I don't recall a doll/mannequin episode in "Buffy". I do recall a Muppet-type episode in "Angel". Is that what you meant?The Puppet Show (season 2) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Puppet_Show)

[Dragoonster]

Doesn't the fact that you know these things are 'irrational' kind of disqualify them as 'beliefs'

No, it just means the beliefs are not explained, or the believer doesn't know the explanation. One of my examples was love, which is quite obviously real to humans. I do think it's irrational, there's no logic that explains it. It may be explained by brain structure/chemistry or sociology, but I don't need to know the why to justify the is.

I certainly don't only believe in things that science has a 0-100000 step explanations for, some things are just obvious, mostly emotions. Science can fill in the explanation whenever it pleases, but they will have long been obvious, and apparently (to the agent at the time) irrational, before then. A dude in 4000bc and a dude in the present age and a dude in 30000ad will feel the same thing no matter how well its explained.

[AkuManiMani]

Then I envy you, because I have been unable to shed my own, despite my best efforts at deconstructing them. It's either a matter of my being unaware of any rational basis for my beliefs, if one should exist, or a matter of my being aware of beliefs that others may have overlooked or taken for granted. I was going to ask if my own beliefs could possibly be justified, or failing that, debunked, but somehow I already know precisely why they make no sense. I had deemed them irrational because, the way I see them, they are ill informed conclusions based on limited knowledge.

That ain't so bad. If they're conclusions based on limited information they can still be rational, if incorrect.

[Dave Rogers]

I salute single magpies, although I don't actually believe anything bad will happen if I don't except my wife pointing out that it's bad luck. I have an irrational belief that any sports team I support will lose because I'm watching them, which, being English, offers almost infinite scope for confirmation bias. I believe, on an inner three-year-old level, that the invisible monsters can't hurt me in the night so long as I've got the covers pulled up to my shoulders, and that's worked pretty well so far. I had an irrational belief up to age 24 that it was unlucky to smoke the third cigarette to be lit off a single match, replaced since then by the rather more evidence-based belief that it's equally unlucky to smoke the first or the second. And I have a totally irrational belief that, when someone tells me about their friend's neighbour's second cousin who always slept naked and sleepwalked and was woken one night by the sound of their front door locking behind them, and I point out that it's a well-known urban legend, they'll be grateful for the information.

Dave