Ben Stein: Science = Murder

[headscratcher4]

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWRmOTU2YzZlN2RhMzhjNzEwNzQ3MzFiZDE2NjM3NWE=

Even a NRO blogger has to pause to consider the manifest stupidity and uglyness of this statement.

[mattdick]

Yes, we get this:

Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

It's hard to know where to start.

[PixyMisa]

Good grief. I thought he was just a lying weasel. He's actually stark raving mad.

[MattusMaximus]

No joke. The man has gone off the deep end, in a truly Tom Cruise-like fashion. Either that or he has some kind of horrible brain disease.

As a follow up, check this out:

Ben Stein wants to "ruin American competitiveness" (http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/05/ben-stein-wants.html)

We all know that Ben Stein thinks that “science leads you to killing people”. The following is a quote from a 2002 article Stein wrote for Forbes magazine, in which he offers “a few suggestions on how we can ruin American competitiveness and innovation in the course of this century”. Forbes’ readers probably thought that Stein’s “suggestions” were meant as satire, but in light of recent events, it is clear that he was in fact serious about doing his part to tank America’s economic future (presumably to avoid all the people-killing caused by sound science education).

<quote>
12) Elevate mysticism, tribalism, shamanism and fundamentalism–and be sure to exclude educated, hardworking men and women–to an equal status with technology in the public mind. Make sure that, in order to pay proper (and politically correct) respect to all different ethnic groups in America, you act as if science were on an equal footing with voodoo and history with ethnic fable.

Ben Stein, “How to Ruin American Enterprise“, Forbes 12/23/2002
<end quote>

[TheDaver]

My head is about to explode.

Satire or not, that just goes to show how he made Expelled in bad faith. And I think that that’s putting it very, very politely.

[Ron_Tomkins]

So I guess "we are all masks metaphorically speaking":D

[dudalb]

I feel like throwing out all my copies of "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" after that.
Stein has truly gone off the deep end with that statement. Even a lot of IDers and creationists will say that is going over the top.
But I also think that a lot more people actually think that then would publically admit it..and all of them are not Fundy Christians, not by a long sight.
A number of New Agers have come very,very,close to saying that.

[Third Eye Open]

Oh wow! This actually makes me feel a lot better about this whole situation. Either this 'Ben Stein' character is a satire, including the movie, or he is just completely insane, either way nothing to worry about any more. The only kind of people who will listen to this insanity are already past helping.

[Fnord]

Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.


Is this really the same Ben Stein from "Ferris Bueler's Day Off" and "Take Ben Stein's Money"? What happened?


So I guess "we are all masks metaphorically speaking":D


And yet, do we not all eventually become the masks we wear? :teacher:

[CurtC]

No joke. The man has gone off the deep end, in a truly Tom Cruise-like fashion.

In other words, he has "jumped the couch."

[patrick767]

it is clear that he was in fact serious about doing his part to tank America’s economic future (presumably to avoid all the people-killing caused by sound science education).


hmmm.... I don't think so. Reading over the Forbes quotes, I still think it's more likely that at the time they were intended as a satire. Somehow since then he's gone certifiably insane. The man should see a doctor.


In other words, he has "jumped the couch."


:D

[steve s]

I'm waiting for Ben to go "Tadaaah! Just kidding."

I've never understood how these people can blast all of science as being immoral in one breath, and with the next breath say that their beliefs are valid science that deserves to be taught in science classrooms.

Steve S.

[TheDaver]

What I don’t understand is how these people can blast all of science, and yet travel on anything more advanced than a donkey, wear suits made of synthetic fabric, appear on television, etc.

Shouldn’t they stick with flint knapping and bear skins?
(Oops, flint knapping could be considered a science by some.)

[TV's Frank]

In my heart of hearts, I secretly hope that Ben Stein is no fool, and just doing this as part of a grand conspiracy. Imagine: a relatively household name becomes world's Number 1 spokesman for creationism. Once this is recognized, he goes completely off the deep end, saying absolutely idiotic things that nobody agrees with. If he says enough stupid stuff, all that gets attached to the creationist movement, which is then permanently discredited in the public eye. The entire creationist movement is destoyed.

No, I don't think it's likely, but I can hope, right?

[Third Eye Open]

Who is John Galt?

[dudalb]

Who is John Galt?


Rumor has it he is Brad Pitt...........

Seriously,though, Ayn Rand is someone who is as screwed up as Ben Stein..just screwed up in a different way.

[Third Eye Open]

Rumor has it he is Brad Pitt...........

Seriously,though, Ayn Rand is someone who is as screwed up as Ben Stein..just screwed up in a different way.

Actually I am a fan of Ayn Rand. I was just trying to make a joke about how epic it would be if Stein was just pretending to be a fool in order to bring down the IDiots.

[MattusMaximus]

In other words, he has "jumped the couch."


Yup! That is a meme that I've been trying to get rolling on the Internet for the past couple of weeks... spread it around:

Ben Stein has jumped the couch!

[MattusMaximus]

Is this really the same Ben Stein from "Ferris Bueler's Day Off" and "Take Ben Stein's Money"? What happened?


Yes, the same guy. I'm so disgusted with him that I no longer make the "Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?" joke in my classes.

As for what happened, Stein was always somewhat of a right-winger (he was a speechwriter for Nixon), but it seems that in the 90s he started to drink the creationist Kool-Aid. Here's more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Stein

[Gravy]

Outstanding! Keep talking, Ben. The autodebunk feature we installed while you were sleeping is working like a charm!

[Eos of the Eons]

hm. ID mouthpiece figures science is to blame for murder and genocide, cuz that kind of stuff never ever was committed by creationists before there was a Darwin to blame for these things. I've read in the past where people say that the pill is the cause of divorces. I guess the pill is the result of science. Science causes divorce AND murder. I could find a way to blame science for obesity too. Nobody has any control over their actions, cuz SCIENCE pulls your puppet strings, ya bunch of dupes.

Funny how the gods don't have any place on these matters. They are beign, useless, as humans discover the evil science. Science is the devil, and he is winning, wiiiinnninnnggg... we're all doomed.

So, with all this, is Ben the second coming? How does he suggest we cleanse ourselves of this evil science sin? Is he gonna die on a cross for all of us?

[skepHick]

Well, maybe he's on to something. That Clear Eyes stuff (likely concocted by some evil medical R&D scientist types) he peddles on the teev (wonder if he curses science while he's cashing those paychecks) burns the **** out of my eyes. OK, it didn't actually kill me, but it sure hurted. A lot. :(

[patchbunny]

Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers [i.e. biologist P.Z. Myers], talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed … that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you.

Wouldn't it be fairer to say that the last time anyone in Stein's family was probably when he had his eyeglass prescription upgraded? That individual was more of a scientist than any camp guard.

[Upchurch]

Krusty: Everywhere I go I see teachers driving Ferraris, research scientists drinking champagne.

Ben Stein has crossed over into being a cartoon character.

[Eos of the Eons]

Jewish scientists were gassed by nazi soldiers. Stein seems to think it is the other way around. Heck, anyone with an education in other countries invaded during WWII, like Poland, including scientists who weren't even jews, were gassed too. It seems Stein doesn't know a gosh darn thing about the holocaust either.

[INRM]

Science is a tool can be used for good purposes or bad purposes; there are good scientists and bad ones. Likewise, technology can exist in good and bad forms.

[Mark A. Siefert]

After reading Stein's "list" my overall reaction was "Meh, just another screed that attempts to Hot-Glue capitalism with religious conservative bigotry (e.g. the codswallop about "family"). Exactly the same crap I left conservatism, the GOP , and the Catholic Church over."

[Mark A. Siefert]

What I don’t understand is how these people can blast all of science, and yet travel on anything more advanced than a donkey, wear suits made of synthetic fabric, appear on television, etc.

Shouldn’t they stick with flint knapping and bear skins?
(Oops, flint knapping could be considered a science by some.)

Ahhh... you have to understand the conservative's attitude about science. For them, applied science is fine, especially if it assists in the maintenance or the "greater glory" of their society. New computers, TVs, stereos and other consumer electronics offer products to sell to keep the economy rolling along. New stealth bombers and nuclear warheads maintain the military power of their civilization and, thus, the social order they feel comfortable. The moon landing was cheered more as a jingoistic race against the "Ruskies" than a scientific exploration. Modern medicine tends to be acceptable, so long as it doesn't lead to medicines and techniques that liberate people from existing social taboos that conservatives feel are necessary for survival. (e.g. their opposition to birth control, abortion, stem cell research, etc.)

Unlike evolution, Ben Stein's eye drops don't fly in the face of the supersticions that he believes are essential to maintaining his idea of "civilization."

[Sunstealer]

What I don’t understand is how these people can blast all of science, and yet travel on anything more advanced than a donkey, wear suits made of synthetic fabric, appear on television, etc.Exactly. I'd like to introduce Stein to smallpox and see him ridicule science then.

[kjkent1]

Ahhh... you have to understand the conservative's attitude about science. For them, applied science is fine, especially if it assists in the maintenance or the "greater glory" of their society. New computers, TVs, stereos and other consumer electronics offer products to sell to keep the economy rolling along. New stealth bombers and nuclear warheads maintain the military power of their civilization and, thus, the social order they feel comfortable. The moon landing was cheered more as a jingoistic race against the "Ruskies" than a scientific exploration. Modern medicine tends to be acceptable, so long as it doesn't lead to medicines and techniques that liberate people from existing social taboos that conservatives feel are necessary for survival. (e.g. their opposition to birth control, abortion, stem cell research, etc.)

Unlike evolution, Ben Stein's eye drops don't fly in the face of the superstitions that he believes are essential to maintaining his idea of "civilization."You raise some excellent points.

I often wonder, however, whether or not we could survive as a civilization without those superstitions. It seems to me that if we are to accept the principal of evolution, then we must also consider that the taboos so ingrained in a society may well provide a selective advantage for the members.

Otherwise, those taboos would have caused the society to be selected against, and thereby rendered inferior or extinct.

[Jimcalagon]

Why do creationists travel in threes?

One to read, one to write and one to keep an eye on two dangerous intellectuals.

[sts60]

I'm waiting for Ben to go "Tadaaah! Just kidding."

I've never understood how these people can blast all of science as being immoral in one breath, and with the next breath say that their beliefs are valid science that deserves to be taught in science classrooms.

Steve S.
Well, let's see - according to BS:

Science = murder
Intelligent Design = science

Therefore, what BS is really trying to tell us is:

Intelligent Design = murder!

[Vorticity]

...the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed … that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you...
Speaking as both a professional scientist and a Jew, I want to punch Ben Stein several times in the center of his face.

How the hell did scientists and science get to be so reviled by certain segments of both the Right and Left?

[Jimcalagon]

I remember a physics lesson from school in which the Physics teacher started off by silently writing the following on the blackboard...

Jesus = Son of Man
Jesus = Son of God
Therefore God = Man

He then stood there for a second and wiped it off the board and continued with the rest of the lesson as though nothing had happened. This was in a Catholic Boys' Grammar School.

[MattusMaximus]

Exactly - and you just beat me to making that same point! I sent the transcript of Stein's conversation about "Science = Murder" to some of my science teacher colleagues, and one responded with a very interesting observation...


So to combine 2 statements that Ben Stein would probably agree with individually...

1. ID is science.
2. Science leads to killing people.

Therefore, Intelligent Design leads to killing people. I wonder if he would agree with that?


Indeed. I think I'll have a contradiction shake along with all that baloney... Ben Stein, what a moron :rolleyes:

Of course, if you want to see the spin the Disco Institute along with all the other creationists are putting on Stein's comments, check out this thread on the Panda's Thumb blog...

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/05/science-equals.html

The creationists there are basically trying to spin it that what Stein meant to say was "atheistic worldview" instead of "science". Go check out the thread for some real laughs...

[MattusMaximus]

How the hell did scientists and science get to be so reviled by certain segments of both the Right and Left?


Imo, by not paying attention to folks like Carl Sagan and James Randi and their warnings for far too long. I think the scientific community has woken up now though.

[headscratcher4]

One thing I always find facinating is that both the Russians and the Nazis rejected modern science in a big way. Sure, they adopted some of the outward trappings, white lab coats, titles like "Dr", Journals, etc. but "science" which must by nature be the free inquirey into the world was completely repressed.

Nazi "doctors" not only chased out physics the considered "jewish" but their racial science was anything but. Not to mention that their journals were about as free as studies undertaken by creationists. In short, like creationists, Nazi science was specirfically constructed to prove a pre-concieved notion, not advance knoweldge or challenge older interpretations. It, like creationism, was stuck in a anti-scientific loop wearing only the cloak of science in an effort to repress science.

And, as for Marxism...which Stein also seems to blame on science and Darwin...well, all you need to do is look at Lysenko and it tells you the whole story.

[volatile]

Can't some decent interviewer get him on TV and ask him these questions, or point out to him how stupid he's being?

What passes for rigorous interviewing in the US? Where are the Paxmans, the Humphreys or the Dimblebys? Who exactly is asking the right questions?

[Ixion]

I am not surprised that Ben Stein has a home in Idaho. I am not trying to insult Idahoans (is that correct?) by making a blanket statement, but Ruby Ridge and Ted Kazynski just comes to mind, and the radicals that often make their homes in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.

Also, I would be interested in how and where Ben Stein worships. I am assuming that he attends some form of worship of god based on his statements about intelligent design. Are there fundamental fire-and-brimstone Jewish synagogues out there? I am ignorant on the subject.

It is sad that Ben Stein has jumped the couch considering he was Yale's valedictorian in 1970.

[lupus_in_fabula]

I’m surprised no one mentioned this before, but don’t you think B. Stein sounds like some kind of android when he speaks. The monotony in his voice etc… Perhaps there’s actually something wrong with him?

[LibraryLady]

I am not surprised that Ben Stein has a home in Idaho. I am not trying to insult Idahoans (is that correct?) by making a blanket statement, but Ruby Ridge and Ted Kazynski just comes to mind, and the radicals that often make their homes in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.

Also, I would be interested in how and where Ben Stein worships. I am assuming that he attends some form of worship of god based on his statements about intelligent design. Are there fundamental fire-and-brimstone Jewish synagogues out there? I am ignorant on the subject.

It is sad that Ben Stein has jumped the couch considering he was Yale's valedictorian in 1970.

Ted Kaczynski lived in Montana. Get your crazies correct!

[Ichneumonwasp]

I’m surprised no one mentioned this before, but don’t you think B. Stein sounds like some kind of android when he speaks. The monotony in his voice etc… Perhaps there’s actually something wrong with him?

I've been wondering if he's getting demented but haven't heard of any other signs of it. I guess he may have just bought into this wacko worldview.

I also keep thinking that this must be satire. He can't be serious.

[Ixion]

Ted Kaczynski lived in Montana. Get your crazies correct!

I know he lived in Montana. I was generalizing the region. :blush: I did mention Montana, didn't I? I guess it's the dangling participle effect, misplaced modifiers, etc. Never was much on grammar.... :D

[Mark A. Siefert]

I often wonder, however, whether or not we could survive as a civilization without those superstitions.

With all due respect, I find that attitude rather condescending. People need to believe in a lie in order them to behave? Isn't the idea of maintaining civilization for its own sake enough incentive to obey the law (within reason of course)?

I'm reminded of an FOX Radio interview I listened to between Richard Dawkins and Allen Colmes where a very irate caller regurgitated the tired theist claim that without religion, society would descend into rapine, murder, and anarchy.

CmzF15elro4

Now, consider: Here you have a supposedly pious Christan who'd "do whatever I want" if he discovered there was no God. On the other side, you have Dr. Dawkins, a man who doesn't believe in any God, yet (as far as we know) has never committed a crime in his life. What does that tell us?

Colmes said it best when it quipped "I'm glad I'm not his neighbor." I concur. In fact, I'd feel far safer in a society of "nihilistic" atheists than a society of believers.

It seems to me that if we are to accept the principal of evolution, then we must also consider that the taboos so ingrained in a society may well provide a selective advantage for the members.


While evolution may explain certain aspects of our behavior, it by no means justifies them. I believe many of our traditional taboos are largely based on our own bigotries, not opinion biological functions.

[lupus_in_fabula]

I've been wondering if he's getting demented but haven't heard of any other signs of it. I guess he may have just bought into this wacko worldview.

I also keep thinking that this must be satire. He can't be serious.

Yeah, there’s something strange going on for sure. I mean a former speech writer for Nixon for crying out loud! Surely he must know how imbecile he sounds (provided there’s nothing wring with him). I simply don’t think he’s just bought the whole creationist hogwash - how could anyone with that calibre actually make such a mindless turn? It’s not like it’s standard creationist hogwash, it’s über hogwash.

I don’t know, but I have the sensation that we haven’t heard the last of this peculiar issue. Surely creationists themselves must feel somehow awkward about all of this?

[godless dave]

No, it's totally true. My dad's a polymer chemist and he's killed twenty or thirty people.

[Third Eye Open]

Science killed my father! And raped my mother!!

[Pantaz]

FYI: Just saw a commercial for Ben Stein appearing on Glenn Beck's TV show this evening...

[Mark A. Siefert]

Here's a prime example of my earlier thought on the Christian Right's attitude toward science from the comment's for one of todays articles on Pharyngula (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/05/a_new_jack_chick_tract.php#comment-868060):

Well I think we all know that physics and engineering are more important to science than biology. Biology is the redheaded stepchild compared to what is really going on with the above sciences.

Lets see, fosil evidence for creatures that don't exist anymore, or science than can give us jobs, build future technology.

[Gravy]

I am not surprised that Ben Stein has a home in Idaho. I am not trying to insult Idahoans (is that correct?) by making a blanket statement, but Ruby Ridge and Ted Kazynski just comes to mind, and the radicals that often make their homes in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.
You can do better than that. Stein lives in Beverly Hills and Malibu. He owns a condo in a luxury resort community in Sandpoint, Idaho. Many celebrities have vacation homes and ranches in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.

[MattusMaximus]

Fyi, the latest info on Expelled's box office free-fall can be found here...

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=expelled.htm

Less than $6 million in three weeks. Wow Ben, you must be so proud :rolleyes:

[Elizabeth I]

Can't some decent interviewer get him on TV and ask him these questions, or point out to him how stupid he's being?

What passes for rigorous interviewing in the US? Where are the Paxmans, the Humphreys or the Dimblebys? Who exactly is asking the right questions?

A, I don't think we do have any really hard-hitting science reporters in the U.S. (do we?), and B, even if we did, how would you get Stein to go on one of their programs? He'd just blather on about ambush journalism and say they only wanted to smear him.

[The Gnomon]

You raise some excellent points.

I often wonder, however, whether or not we could survive as a civilization without those superstitions. It seems to me that if we are to accept the principal of evolution, then we must also consider that the taboos so ingrained in a society may well provide a selective advantage for the members.

Otherwise, those taboos would have caused the society to be selected against, and thereby rendered inferior or extinct.
It just takes time. Extinction doesn't happen overnight.

[The Gnomon]

Fyi, the latest info on Expelled's box office free-fall can be found here...

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=expelled.htm

Less than $6 million in three weeks. Wow Ben, you must be so proud :rolleyes:

In moments of despair about the boundless stupidity of Americans, such statistics are reassuring. :D

[alfaniner]

...
Less than $6 million in three weeks. Wow Ben, you must be so proud :rolleyes:

But... but...

Glenn Beck called it the "new hit movie" just as recently as last Friday!!!

[DoubtingStephen]

I wonder how Ben Stein feels about using evil science-based photography to create a movie that will be shown in theaters that are air-conditioned using machinery based on scientific principles. Even the movie projector is possible only because of long ago science, which by now must have killed thousands of innocent idiots like Ben.

I hope Ben does not travel around in one of those evil horseless carriages that Satan sent to destroy our faith in idiotic ancient drivel from a primitive warring tribe with a penchant for genocide. Those gol darn automobiles use scientific principles to move people around.

And then there is that heathen medical science to contend with too! All those medical researchers, physicians, and nurses want to do is use their Satanic scientific knowledge to kill people. I bet everybody that goes to a doctor will die. If Ben becomes ill he should just pray for a cure.

As others have said in this thread, it's hard to believe that a man who once seemed intelligent could become such a stark enemy of reality.

[Mark A. Siefert]

I wonder how Ben Stein feels about using evil science-based photography to create a movie that will be shown in theaters that are air-conditioned using machinery based on scientific principles. Even the movie projector is possible only because of long ago science, which by now must have killed thousands of innocent idiots like Ben.

As I said, the Right doesn't mind "applied" science. Air conditioning, cars, movie projectors, and medicine (except where if involves birth control or stem cells) is OK. Theoretical science like biology, geology, ecology, cosmology, and other knowledge that has no marketable applications AND throws a monkey wrench into their Medieval view of religion and politics will be viewed with derision.

As for godless science "killing people," I wonder how much Stein and his fellow religious conservatives have invested in military contractors, not to mention the billions they'd have the government spend on developing new weapons for "defending America."

[MattusMaximus]

As for godless science "killing people," I wonder how much Stein and his fellow religious conservatives have invested in military contractors, not to mention the billions they'd have the government spend on developing new weapons for "defending America."


But that's okay because God wants them to do that, right? ;)

[MarkCorrigan]

I wonder how Ben Stein feels about using evil science-based photography to create a movie that will be shown in theaters that are air-conditioned using machinery based on scientific principles. Even the movie projector is possible only because of long ago science, which by now must have killed thousands of innocent idiots like Ben.

I hope Ben does not travel around in one of those evil horseless carriages that Satan sent to destroy our faith in idiotic ancient drivel from a primitive warring tribe with a penchant for genocide. Those gol darn automobiles use scientific principles to move people around.

And then there is that heathen medical science to contend with too! All those medical researchers, physicians, and nurses want to do is use their Satanic scientific knowledge to kill people. I bet everybody that goes to a doctor will die. If Ben becomes ill he should just pray for a cure.

As others have said in this thread, it's hard to believe that a man who once seemed intelligent could become such a stark enemy of reality.
Actually Ben has to walk everywhere, because one of the first things that could be described as science was animal domestication and husbandry.

[DoubtingStephen]

But that's okay because God wants them to do that, right? ;)

As long as somebody actually does get killed, yes.

By God I assume you mean the particular Imaginary Bearded Sky Daddy that is imagined by more Americans than any other Imaginary Bearded Sky Daddy currently in vogue.

Having read the entire Old Testament I can tell you this is one vindictive and genocidal sky fairy! There must be dozens of verses about killing all of the survivors, even women and children. And I just love
Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock.
--Psalm 137, verse 9

Here is some nice holy killing for an example.

"They warred against Midian, as YAHWEH commanded Moses, and killed every male. They killed the kings of Midian ... And the people of Israel took captive the women of Midian and their little ones; and they took as booty all their cattle, their flocks, and all their goods. All their cities in the places where they dwelt, and all their encampments, they burned with fire." (Numbers 31:7)

Some folks might prefer the ever popular alternative strategy of sparing the women for use as sex slaves, no hidden cellars required! Now that's real God of Love material

"Moses was enraged with the officers of the army ... ‘So you spared the women! ... Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has had sexual intercourse with a man, but keep the virgins for yourselves ... divide them up evenly.'" (Numbers 31:15)

This must be why modern women love being treated as property to be seized and owned by the nice people that murdered their men.

It's a wonder why everyone does not want to obey good old Yahweh and kill, kill, kill.

Maybe the real reason that Yahweh keeps ordering so much death and destruction by proxy is because he is one of those evil scientists, after all, they say he knows everything, and what is science but the pursuit of knowledge?

[MattusMaximus]

Having read the entire Old Testament I can tell you this is one vindictive and genocidal sky fairy! There must be dozens of verses about killing all of the survivors, even women and children.


A bit OT, but my favorite Old Testament verse along these lines is the one which describes how the prophet Elisha responds to a bunch of children who are making fun of him...

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2kg/2.html#23

2 Kings:
2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

[Tricky]

A bit OT, but my favorite Old Testament verse along these lines is the one which describes how the prophet Elisha responds to a bunch of children who are making fun of him...

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2kg/2.html#23

2 Kings:
2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
I'd have to search for it, but those verses were actually defended here by one of our Christian Soldiers. As it turns out, they weren't "children", but fully teenage boys. And they were not just taunting Elisha, they were threatening him. It was a bunch of biblical juvenile delinquents, leaning on their racing chariots, flashing their switchblade lances, and smoking unfiltered camels (yes, the bactrians). The bear burst in like a biblical Batman, wreaking havoc among the punks. You tease a prophet and you get what you deserve.

[DoubtingStephen]

The bear burst in like a biblical Batman, wreaking havoc among the punks. You tease a prophet and you get what you deserve.

I guess if this long ago Christian Soldier was so in favor of killing he must have been a very devout man.

Does anyone know if Ben Stein identified any particular branch of science as especially homicidal?

I'm thinking medical research might be the single most evil, look how many terminal cancer patients end up dying!

[Tricky]

Does anyone know if Ben Stein identified any particular branch of science as especially homicidal?

I'm thinking medical research might be the single most evil, look how many terminal cancer patients end up dying!
Very true. Not to mention lab animals.

And why aren't there more haunted hospitals? Don't more people die there than anywhere else?

[headscratcher4]

Actually, it isn't scientists, its economists who are evil.

Marx=economist
Economist=Mass Murder

And remember, the Nazis' were all about making the thing pay...get the fillings, the hear, the property, work them to death, etc. It wasn't so much science as economics.

Same was true for Stalin and Mao, people starved not because of science (though Lysenko didn't help any), they starved because they couldn't get the economics right.

Ben Stien and his father are /were Economists.

Ben Stein=Marx
Marx=athiestic Communism
Aithistic Communism=Mass Murder
ergo:Ben Stien=Mass Murdering Communistic Nazi economist.

See how easy it is?

[Showmeproof]

Time out! FLag on the play. Back the truck up ::beep, beep:::

I always thought Ben Stein was in advocate for science! For some reason, I could of swore I read or heard that somewhere. Hmm.

Please let me know whats up :)

[MattusMaximus]

Time out! FLag on the play. Back the truck up ::beep, beep:::

I always thought Ben Stein was in advocate for science! For some reason, I could of swore I read or heard that somewhere. Hmm.

Please let me know whats up :)


What's up is that Ben Stein has drunk the proverbial creationist Kool-Aid and jumped the couch, that's what.

He may have been, at some point, an advocate for science, but now he's just clown shoes.

[MattusMaximus]

For those of you who don't know, there is now a concerted nationwide push by creationists at the Disco Institute to pass so-called "academic freedom" bills in state legislatures.

Here's more detail on this new move:

Evolution's Critics Shift Tactics with Schools (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120967537476060561.html) by the Wall Street Journal

They have spent years working school boards, with only minimal success. Now critics of evolution are turning to a higher authority: state legislators.

In a bid to shape biology lessons, they are promoting what they call "academic freedom" bills that would encourage or require public-school teachers to cast doubt on a cornerstone of modern science...

Fortunately, the creationists fumbled the ball in Florida (the first state where the new tactic was attempted) but many consider the pro-science side to have just gotten lucky. In Florida there was a disturbing amount of behind-the-scenes action taking place. Read more here...

Squeaking by in Florida (http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/05/squeaking-by-in.html)

The Florida legislature failed to pass either of two forms of the Discovery Institute’s draft ”academic freedom” bills, and adjourned Friday evening. We have until the legislative session next year to make sure that those in the legislature know exactly what the history and intent of bills like that are. But it doesn’t feel like a ”win”; those of us who invested our time in advocating for good science education in Florida essentially got lucky this time.

Also, it appears that the next battleground is Louisiana, with reports that similar moves are taking place in multiple states...

Louisiana is next (http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/05/louisiana-is-ne.html)

Fast political action is needed to stop another anti-science bill in Louisiana. Below is a message from Barbara Forrest, who says it all better than I can.

So, long story short, "Expelled" seemed as if it were timed to "prime the pump" and encourage & organize creationists to lobby their state legislatures from the grassroots while the Disco Institute lobbied from the other end.

Looks like it's time to monitor your state legislature. If you notice anything funny going on, I suggest contacting the National Center for Science Education (http://www.ncseweb.org)

[Upchurch]

Don't forget Missouri (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=110641)