Why the date September 11th?

[Confuseling]

Sorry if you've done this one - I can't figure how to search for it effectively (every post contains the word date! doh!)

Do we know why they chose this date? Have any interrogations or Al-Qaeda communiques given us a clue?

There's symbolism in 9/11, obviously, but deliberately so? I wonder also whether they knew about the military exercises - even if the assumption is that they actually increased readiness, that does not lead to the assumption that that is the effect the hijackers would have expected them to have. Were the exercises public knowledge? How hard would it have been to find out? How exceptional were they?

Any ideas? I'd settle for informed speculation :)

ETA: Any related info on London, Bali, Madrid, also interesting. Thanks.

[Par]

Well, September the 11th 1683 was apparently the date that jihadi armies were finally prevented from conquering Christian Europe. It could well be a coincidence, however.

[gumboot]

The date was not chosen for any specific reason. The hijackers wanted a week day (low passenger numbers) with clear skies (to aid navigation). The significance of the "9/11" date was simply coincidence and may not have even registered to the hijackers since most of the world would record the date as 11/9.

[Par]

There's symbolism in 9/11, obviously...


How do you mean?

[Par]

I’ve just found the following Google Answers thread which goes into quite a bit of detail:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=291605

[Cl1mh4224rd]

How do you mean?


I think he's referring to the fact that 9-1-1 is the emergency telephone number over here in the States.

[1337m4n]

The date was not chosen for any specific reason. The hijackers wanted a week day (low passenger numbers) with clear skies (to aid navigation). The significance of the "9/11" date was simply coincidence and may not have even registered to the hijackers since most of the world would record the date as 11/9.

That's actually a good point. Illuminati wooists find all kinds of Illuminati woo symbolism in the date 9/11...but Americans are really the only people who write dates like that, with the month first.

[Tweeter]

10 years to the day that Poppa Bush spoke of a New World Order.

[parky76]

my question is: who cares?

[Walter Ego]

I read somewhere (please don't ask me to find the source) that the plane that crashed at Shanksville was most likely headed for the US Congress building which would have been an easier target to hit than the White House. Congress went back into session a day or two before the 11th so there would have been more causalities than there would have been if congress was in recess.

[Par]

Irel.

[Jonnyclueless]

10 years to the day that Poppa Bush spoke of a New World Order.

You go back 10 years to any day in the year and something significant has happened....

[gumboot]

I read somewhere (please don't ask me to find the source) that the plane that crashed at Shanksville was most likely headed for the US Congress building which would have been an easier target to hit than the White House. Congress went back into session a day or two before the 11th so there would have been more causalities than there would have been if congress was in recess.


This seems pretty plausible to me. Can any Americans also offer up timelines for things like school terms? I would imagine that aircraft are typically more heavily loaded during holiday periods, but I don't know if any holidays occurred in the time frame of late August to early October.

[defaultdotxbe]

10 years to the day that Poppa Bush spoke of a New World Order.
il assume that by "10" you actually meant "11," the speech was delivered in 1990

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11

[Par]

my question is: who cares?


Sure. Who needed the Enlightenment, anyway? Knowledge: crap.

[moon1969]

Maybe because Dawson's Field hijackings happend in September 1970? Allso Chilean coup d'état happend on September 11, 1973? That is when Pinochet took power and Henry Kissinger was United States Secretary of State? So I guess Osama is a fan of Pinochet and PLO?

[fezzic]

Given any date of the year, I am pretty sure that one could come up with something "significant", at least to the searcher, to connect anything to anything.

[applecorped]

also on 9/11:
1776 - British-American peace conference on Staten Island fails to stop nascent American Revolution.

[1337m4n]

10 years to the day that Poppa Bush spoke of a New World Order.

You're referring to that speech by Bush Sr.?

Judging from context what he meant by "new world order" was not some kind of evil global conspiracy...but rather an ideal of all nations working together for the greater good.

Doesn't sound so bad, if you ask me. You can argue that globalism is ultimately bad or ineffective, but that's more of a question for Politics than for Conspiracy Theories. It's no different from arguing about gun control or stem cell research or foreign policy.

[applecorped]

Or this:

1981 - A small plane crashes into the Swing Auditorium in San Bernardino damaging it beyond repair.

[1337m4n]

Given any date of the year, I am pretty sure that one could come up with something "significant", at least to the searcher, to connect anything to anything.

I have a challenge, for everyone who finds special significance in dates.

1) Go to Wikipedia
2) Start typing in dates in "Month #day" format, i.e. April 19, August 6, etc.
3) Let me know when you find a date on which nothing of any interest happened.

[applecorped]

Alice Trillin - died 9-11-2001

Trillin's interest in curriculum development led her to consult for WNET television station and help it design new approaches to educational programming. She formed a company "Learning Designs" to produce educational television series, such as Behind the Scenes, starring the illusionist duo Penn & Teller, aiming to teach pre-teens about the creative process in the visual and performing arts.

[Walter Ego]

This seems pretty plausible to me. Can any Americans also offer up timelines for things like school terms? I would imagine that aircraft are typically more heavily loaded during holiday periods, but I don't know if any holidays occurred in the time frame of late August to early October.

Here it is.

The 9/11 Commission Report

On August 3 [2001], ... [Muhammad] Atta and Binalshibh discussed several matters, such as the best way for the operatives to purchase plane tickets and the assignment of muscle hijackers to individual teams. Atta and Binalshibhalso revisited the question of whether to terget the White House. They discussed targets in coded language, pretending to be students discussing various field fo strudy" "architecture" referred to the World Trade Center, "arts" the Pentagon, "law" the Capitol, and "politics" the White House.

Binalshibh reminded Atta that Bin Ladin wanted to target the White House. Atta again cautioned that this would be difficult. When Binalshibh persisted, Atta agreed to include the White House but suggested they keep the Capitol as an alternate target in case the White House proved too difficult. Atta also suggested that the attacks would not happen until after the first week in September, when Congress reconvened. (p. 248)

http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jan/14-610042.html

[Unsecured Coins]

let's not forget the Atlanta Braves threw the first National League combined No-hitter on 9-11-91 as well...

[Slayhamlet]

10 years to the day that Poppa Bush spoke of a New World Order.

He spoke of "a new world order" at numerous times during his presidency. It was one of the buzzwords of all his major speeches concerning the Gulf War. The significance of the phrase is obvious to students of modern history, but it has confused Twoofers mightily.

[BenBurch]

None of you have it figured out.

I'm surprised.

That morning in the Federal Court House near the WTC, there was an sentencing hearing for one of the 1993 bombing criminals.

I can't prove it of course, but that has always seemed the most logical explanation.

[gumboot]

Clearly, since the Battle of Stirling Bridge was on 11 September 1297, this is proof that Osama Bin Laden was a fan of Braveheart.

[bynmdsue]

The Terrorists were HUUUGE "Big Lebowski" fans

[firecoins]

also on 9/11:
1776 - British-American peace conference on Staten Island fails to stop nascent American Revolution.
Oh come on. When has a conference in Staten Island ever resulted peace. It usually results in a mob war.

By the way, 9/11 contains 19. 19 is the conspiracy number for the Nation of Islam led by Louis Farakan.

[Corsair 115]

I would imagine that aircraft are typically more heavily loaded during holiday periods, but I don't know if any holidays occurred in the time frame of late August to early October.


There are two holidays that I'm aware of which fall into that time period: Labor Day and Columbus Day.

[gumboot]

There are two holidays that I'm aware of which fall into that time period: Labor Day and Columbus Day.


Apparently the school term in the US typically breaks from June to September or May to August, is that right?

[Corsair 115]

Apparently the school term in the US typically breaks from June to September or May to August, is that right?Elementary and high school usually runs from just after Labor Day to mid or late June; college/university generally runs from just after Labor Day to early May or so.

Going by memory here, and it's been a long time since I was in school...

[gumboot]

Elementary and high school usually runs from just after Labor Day to mid or late June; college/university generally runs from just after Labor Day to early May or so.

Going by memory here, and it's been a long time since I was in school...


That would seem to work well with my premise that the hijackers would want to wait until the summer holidays were over before carrying out their plot.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

In my crazy way of thinking, I always thought it happened on September 11th because the final order to proceed was received on September 10th.

[Brainster]

None of you have it figured out.

I'm surprised.

That morning in the Federal Court House near the WTC, there was an sentencing hearing for one of the 1993 bombing criminals.

Nope, it's a common myth that it was the fifth anniversary of the conviction of Ramzi Yousef, but it's not; he was convicted on 9/5/96. The date was chosen by Mohamed Atta something like two weeks before the attacks, for reasons mentioned above--a weekday and a slow travel day (Tuesday).

[Undesired Walrus]

The reason:

It made up by Mohammed Atta simply as a joke between two close friends. He picked the day.

He phoned up Ramzi Bin Al-Shib one morning and asked him what two sticks, a dash, and a cake with a stick down meant.

Ramzi Bin Al-Shib asked him what it was. '11/9' said Atta.

See Bin Al-Shib talk about it at 1:20 into this clip.

3286456039719764674&hl=en

[Mangoose]

Am I the only one who thought of the assonance between "Sept-EMBER el-EVENTH" and "Dec-EMBER se-VENTH"? That occurred to me the morning of the attack, with it being 50 years since the last airborne attack on America, with "Pearl Harbor" recently in theatres. In retrospect I think it was coincidental but at the time it seemed to fit.

[cludgie]

I once heard the daft suggestion that it was because '11' looks like the Twin Towers.:jaw-dropp

[Alferd_Packer]

Elementary and high school usually runs from just after Labor Day to mid or late June; college/university generally runs from just after Labor Day to early May or so.

Going by memory here, and it's been a long time since I was in school...


In Chicago, school starts after labor day, in the suburbs, the week before.

[Alferd_Packer]

I hate the fact that it was on 9/11. That was my dad's birthday, It's also the aniversity of my first date with my wife and the day I proposed to her a year later.

[fuelair]

I figured they wanted to ruin my birthday!!

[Alferd_Packer]

I figured they wanted to ruin my birthday!!

Daddy!!!

[aggle-rithm]

Am I the only one who thought of the assonance between "Sept-EMBER el-EVENTH" and "Dec-EMBER se-VENTH"? That occurred to me the morning of the attack, with it being 50 years since the last airborne attack on America, with "Pearl Harbor" recently in theatres. In retrospect I think it was coincidental but at the time it seemed to fit.

And, coincidentally (?!?), George Bush Senior once misidentified September 7 as Pearl Harbor Day.

WAS HE TRYING TO SUBLIMINALLY PREPARE US FOR SEPTEMBER 11?!!?

No.

[aggle-rithm]

10 years to the day that Poppa Bush spoke of a New World Order.

And almost exactly a year to the day of the highest recorded temperature in Austin, TX: 112 degrees!!!!


Coincidence? I think not!!!

[Tweeter]

il assume that by "10" you actually meant "11," the speech was delivered in 1990

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11

You`re right!

Another 11

:jaw-dropp

[GlennB]

Given any date of the year, I am pretty sure that one could come up with something "significant", at least to the searcher, to connect anything to anything.

Especially if you allow yourself to count years, months, days, weeks, etc etc and any fraction thereof. There are plenty of weirdos "out there" who rustle up spurious significance this way. Like "There are 911 lunar fortnights between <incident A> and <incident B>. Coincidence? I don't think so."

I'll bet there are online numerology calculators that could do this kind of stuff ;)

[Confuseling]

I think he's referring to the fact that 9-1-1 is the emergency telephone number over here in the States.

That's the one.

That's actually a good point. Illuminati wooists find all kinds of Illuminati woo symbolism in the date 9/11...but Americans are really the only people who write dates like that, with the month first.

They'd spent enough time in America to realise how that would resonate, though.

The reason:

It made up by Mohammed Atta simply as a joke between two close friends. He picked the day.

He phoned up Ramzi Bin Al-Shib one morning and asked him what two sticks, a dash, and a cake with a stick down meant.

Ramzi Bin Al-Shib asked him what it was. '11/9' said Atta.

See Bin Al-Shib talk about it at 1:20 into this clip.

3286456039719764674&hl=en

I'm pretty sure that clip doesn't imply that - he could have been instructed, as per Walter Ego's post above.

Lots of interesting, and competing explanations. I guess we'll never know. Does anyone have an answer to my questions about the military exercises? How uncommon were they? How hard would it have been for determined public to find out they were happening? I'm looking at you Gumboot :)

[Travis]

Why conduct the attacks on September 11th? Here's the story.

The original plan was to conduct the attacks on the 11th of Octember. When KSM and Osama discovered that the works of Dr. Suess were not a comprehensive encyclopedia of American culture they changed it to the 42 of August but since that date doesn't exist their operatives did the next best thing.

[aggle-rithm]

Why conduct the attacks on September 11th? Here's the story.

The original plan was to conduct the attacks on the 11th of Octember. When KSM and Osama discovered that the works of Dr. Suess were not a comprehensive encyclopedia of American culture they changed it to the 42 of August but since that date doesn't exist their operatives did the next best thing.

Also, Mohammed Atta had a hair appointment on September 12.


.......


Oops, I wasn't supposed to divulge that!!!

[MaGZ]

I read somewhere (please don't ask me to find the source) that the plane that crashed at Shanksville was most likely headed for the US Congress building which would have been an easier target to hit than the White House. Congress went back into session a day or two before the 11th so there would have been more causalities than there would have been if congress was in recess.

This is the correct answer. Congress was back in session that day and they were a target.

[gumboot]

Does anyone have an answer to my questions about the military exercises? How uncommon were they? How hard would it have been for determined public to find out they were happening? I'm looking at you Gumboot :)


Military exercises are conducted on virtually every day of the year and are generally not disclosed to the public.

It is almost a certainty that Mohammed Atta chose September 11 as it was a mid week day shortly after Congress were back in session.

[psikeyhackr]

You may recognize the building at the beginning of this episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbCNycm0nQ

But later in this episode he has a Flight 9/11 heading for Manhattan.

That series is from 1978 and that flight was before the WTC existed.

psik

[aggle-rithm]

This is the correct answer. Congress was back in session that day and they were a target.

It's a good thing the plane was shot down.

No, wait...that's a BAD thing; that's why they had to cover it up.

No, wait...NORAD was told to stand down, and THAT's what they had to cover up.

No, wait...

I'm so confused. Does the theory HAVE to be internally consistent...?

[aggle-rithm]

You may recognize the building at the beginning of this episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTbCNycm0nQ

But later in this episode he has a Flight 9/11 heading for Manhattan.

That series is from 1978 and that flight was before the WTC existed.

psik

James Burke did it?

[Furi]

I'm so confused. Does the theory HAVE to be internally consistent...?

I think there is a specific requirement that it has to have no consistancy at all *leafs through papers on desk* I was sure I had it written somewhere about here, something about no CT should ever had any consistent feature ever, and this has ruling has been loyally adhered to by all CT so far.

On the subject of why the date, maybe it was because there was enough seats available on those flights, or my personal theory is that there was no specific significance to the date, so there would be no additional security or hiccups.

[psikeyhackr]

James Burke did it?

No, the captain of the Swedish airliner. Burke was trying to warn us.

psik

[aggle-rithm]

No, the captain of the Swedish airliner. Burke was trying to warn us.

psik

So it wasn't the Arabs, it was the Swedes?!?

Now I'm REALLY confused.

[jaydeehess]

Military exercises are conducted on virtually every day of the year and are generally not disclosed to the public.



Back in the mid-1980's I was working for Transport Canada at an airport. I was outside loading a vehicle with equipment when I looked up and saw two obviously large aircraft very high up and VERY close to each other.
When I went back inside I made a point of mentioning it to the ATC controlers on duty. They told me it was two B-52's flying in formation on a NORAD test.
Since Canada never had any B-52 aircraft they must have been American.
No mention of it on TV or radio or newspaper until several weeks later, sort of. That was when the first tests of cruise missiles were done again from B-52's over Canada. But no mention was ever made about the flight I saw. It stands to reason that they would fly the route unloaded first.

[jaydeehess]

Congress was in session, ( target the seat of US political power) fewer passenger means fewer people to contend with and better chance of getting seats on all flights, weather for the entire eastern seaboard was to be clear and light winds ( ease of navigation and controling large fast aircraft close to the ground)

Its really a no-brainer which explains quite well why this is a hot topic among CT's.

I really do not believe that the co-incidental aspect of 9/11 resembling the emergency phone number had anything to do with the choice of attack day. Had the weather been crappy would they have scrubbed and waited an entire year? Maybe they'd wait until November 9th so the it would again be 9/11 in Canada where 911 is also the emergency number.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

double post...

[aggle-rithm]

Back to the topic...

The date was originally supposed to be August 31 (whose significance we all instantly recognize), but when the Gregorian calendar was adopted in 1752, it was moved up to September 11.

Those crafty devils.

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

I hate numerologists.

On 9/11 3 planes hit their targets. 9+11+3 = 23 OMG! A name for a bad Jim Carey movie about numerology!


Also, wasn't there a cesna that crashed into the lawn of the White House on Sept 11th 1993 or something during Clinton's term?

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Sorry for the double posts. things are a little wacky. I blame the NWO and the Stonecutters.

[aggle-rithm]

Sorry for the double posts. things are a little wacky. I blame the NWO and the Stonecutters.

Not to mention the secret cabals that control them.

And the SOOPER-secret cabals that control the secret cabals.

And so on. It's secret cabals, all the way up!!

[Confuseling]

Congress was in session, ( target the seat of US political power) fewer passenger means fewer people to contend with and better chance of getting seats on all flights, weather for the entire eastern seaboard was to be clear and light winds ( ease of navigation and controling large fast aircraft close to the ground)

Its really a no-brainer which explains quite well why this is a hot topic among CT's.

I really do not believe that the co-incidental aspect of 9/11 resembling the emergency phone number had anything to do with the choice of attack day. Had the weather been crappy would they have scrubbed and waited an entire year? Maybe they'd wait until November 9th so the it would again be 9/11 in Canada where 911 is also the emergency number.

Fact free speculation alert:

I agree fully with the reasoning in your first paragraph, but I don't see how it precludes the symbolism of '911' mentioned in the second. I just can't believe that people who had lived in America wouldn't have, at some point, noticed that 911 was the emergency number, and that leads me to think they probably chose it for that reason, short of any other compelling explanation. Does that mean they'd have waited a year? Almost certainly not, but really, what could've gone wrong? The plan was really simple. Once they'd narrowed it down by weather and the new Congress session, I reckon they'd have picked something that chimed with Islam, their history, or the psyches of their targets. If they got 'flu, they'd have picked something else.

[psikeyhackr]

Back to the topic...

The date was originally supposed to be August 31 (whose significance we all instantly recognize), but when the Gregorian calendar was adopted in 1752, it was moved up to September 11.

Those crafty devils.

I knew the Catholic Church had to be in on it from way back. I bet that Swedish airline captain was Catholic.

psik

[jaydeehess]

Fact free speculation alert:

I agree fully with the reasoning in your first paragraph, but I don't see how it precludes the symbolism of '911' mentioned in the second. I just can't believe that people who had lived in America wouldn't have, at some point, noticed that 911 was the emergency number, and that leads me to think they probably chose it for that reason, short of any other compelling explanation. Does that mean they'd have waited a year? Almost certainly not, but really, what could've gone wrong? The plan was really simple. Once they'd narrowed it down by weather and the new Congress session, I reckon they'd have picked something that chimed with Islam, their history, or the psyches of their targets. If they got 'flu, they'd have picked something else.

By the same reasoning the London bombing should have occured at 9am on Sept the 9th. Isn't the emergency number in England 999?

But why?
Why lamely associate it with the emergency number? What benefit would there have been. Did anyone get more terrified because of the co-incidence? Did it somehow thrust their political agenda further into the limelight? Did it garner some 'hurrah's from their supporters in the middle east?
No, no, and no!
I frankly did not even notice the coincidence until some CT pointed it out on a forum a month later.
In the pantheon of conspiracy theories it ranks slightly better than the folding dollar bill bit, IMHO, of course.

[gumboot]

Is there any evidence that Al Qaeda have ever intentionally staged attacks on a date that has special relevance?

[fezzic]

I don't doubt that they would have if they found a date of particular importance to the US or of particular symbolism. That said, I don't think they chose to execute their plans on 9/11 for any other reason than it was when their plan came together.

[Confuseling]

By the same reasoning the London bombing should have occured at 9am on Sept the 9th. Isn't the emergency number in England 999?

But why?
Why lamely associate it with the emergency number? What benefit would there have been. Did anyone get more terrified because of the co-incidence? Did it somehow thrust their political agenda further into the limelight? Did it garner some 'hurrah's from their supporters in the middle east?
No, no, and no!
I frankly did not even notice the coincidence until some CT pointed it out on a forum a month later.
In the pantheon of conspiracy theories it ranks slightly better than the folding dollar bill bit, IMHO, of course.

Well, to help it stick in peoples minds. Just to resonate memetically. Is that to suggest we'd have forgotten about it otherwise? Of course not. But that's the point of terrorism - it's designed to stick in your mind.

Is there any evidence that Al Qaeda have ever intentionally staged attacks on a date that has special relevance?

Had they ever attempted something like this before? I've never heard of a terrorist attack that didn't require possession of anything suspicious. Normally, you get the bomb materials, you move (I assume :)). With this, as long as you're not communicating about it electronically, you're pretty damn safe.

I have no idea whether it's just chance, but I think the suggestion that it couldn't have been chosen deliberately is unreasonable. Anyway, I only really asked the OP to find out whether we knew, and whether it was likely deliberately tied into the military exercises. No, and no, it seems. But thank you all for some interesting - and sometimes quite surreal, thoughts :)