Chemtrail Experiment, Needs Participation

[Thunder]

Hello folks. Id like to attempt to debunk this chemtrail joke once and for all.

What I am going to do, and would ask others to do, is very simple.

Every Wednesday, look up at the sky, and see if you see contrails that do not disapate, a.k.a "chemtrails".

Take note if the contrails stick around..or if they disapate. Also, record the daily barometric pressure and relative humidity of the day.

I believe, that if we look at the data for 3 months or so, we will see a direct correlation between "contrail" formation and days of higher humidity and lower barometric pressure.

Its an easy experiment, requires just eyes, paper, and a pen. Please let me know if you can participate. Thanks.

[Mr. Skinny]

Disapate over what period of time?

Sorry, but the study seems too open to subjective opinion unless you can clarify.

[Thunder]

well, CTists claim that "chemtrails" are contrails that fail to disapate, and become those big, wide, long clouds that are formed from contrails. thats what im looking for.

[1337m4n]

I've always wondered why Truthers don't simply pool their resources to requisition a weather balloon and take samples of their alleged "chemtrails".

[Reality Believer]

1. No matter what you do, there will still be chemtrail believers. For them, this isn't about the science, it is about believing in the conspiracy and the false science is the selling point.

2. There is no way to know the barometer, temperature and humidity at the altitude where the contrails exist. That is the data you need, not at ground level.

So, sorry to whiz in your Wheaties, but I don't see this experiment going very far. :(

[TjW]

Hello folks. Id like to attempt to debunk this chemtrail joke once and for all.

What I am going to do, and would ask others to do, is very simple.

Every Wednesday, look up at the sky, and see if you see contrails that do not disapate, a.k.a "chemtrails".

Take note if the contrails stick around..or if they disapate. Also, record the daily barometric pressure and relative humidity of the day.

I believe, that if we look at the data for 3 months or so, we will see a direct correlation between "contrail" formation and days of higher humidity and lower barometric pressure.

Its an easy experiment, requires just eyes, paper, and a pen. Please let me know if you can participate. Thanks.

Actually, you probably won't see a correlation. It's quite often the case that the airmass at the surface and the airmass at altitude are very different.

For example, some of the best contrail viewing days here in Southern California have been mild Santa Ana conditions, with light offshore flow at the surface. It's warm with very dry air. But at altitude, the contrails are popping like gangbusters.

[Reheat]

.....
So, sorry to whiz in your Wheaties, but I don't see this experiment going very far. :(

I'm sure your intentions are honorable, but it really is a waste of time. The Chemtrail idea is just another zany conspiracy theory without 1 ounce of proof.

Well, for those of us who have flown for 30-40 years, maybe that's why we pay no attention to the jerks who believe in this pap. We've been numbed, not by the Chemicals, but by the stupidity of it all.

[ktesibios]

Your proposed experiment won't work for the reasons identified by Reality Believer. However, contrail studies which correlate observed persistence with radiosonde data on temperature and humidity at the altitude of the trail (determined by identifying the flight) have been done- not for the benefit of chemmie believers but to test and validate models for predicting where persistent contrails are likely to form. if you look around the "publications" section of this web site (http://contrail.gi.alaska.edu/) you'll probably find some papers on this.

Of course, the fact that these studies show that the high-altitude weather, espcially relative humidity, are the controlling factors in contrail persistence will never penetrate the skulls of the chemmies, if any are even aware of the existence of serious research into contrails.

[Hamradioguy]

Interesting timing, as I noticed some persistant chem...ooops CONtrails earlier today. I tend to notice such since this location is right on one major great circle airline route from the east coast to Europe and because ham radio people with an interest in VHF, UHF, and microwave communciations know that when contrails tend to last for a while it's often an indication of possible tropo ducting for enhanced communciations. This phenomonon is most common in those crisp clear days of late summer or early fall.

That said, the only way to get any kind of real correlation would be through upper atmospheric weather data. There may still be some observation sites around where balloons are launched and data tracked, but not around here these days unfortunately.

[ElMondoHummus]

I've always wondered why Truthers don't simply pool their resources to requisition a weather balloon and take samples of their alleged "chemtrails".

Because then they'd be bringing that poison back down to the ground!

Du-uhhhh! :D

[Thunder]

yes, there will always be some nuts who will believe in poisonous, diabolical chemtrails, no matter what the science says.

but i think a good majority of those who listen to conspiracy theories are actually able to discern between logic and illogic, science and bunk. just look at how the truth movemant have dwindled since the failure of LC:FC.

[Confuseling]

Your proposed experiment won't work for the reasons identified by Reality Believer. However, contrail studies which correlate observed persistence with radiosonde data on temperature and humidity at the altitude of the trail (determined by identifying the flight) have been done- not for the benefit of chemmie believers but to test and validate models for predicting where persistent contrails are likely to form. if you look around the "publications" section of this web site (http://contrail.gi.alaska.edu/) you'll probably find some papers on this.

Of course, the fact that these studies show that the high-altitude weather, espcially relative humidity, are the controlling factors in contrail persistence will never penetrate the skulls of the chemmies, if any are even aware of the existence of serious research into contrails.

Erm, sorry, but... duh!

They check the weather forecast, and only distribute the chemtrails when conditions would cause them to persist.

Do I have to work everything out myself?

[DC]

in German news it was reported that Russia / Putin used some sort of Chemtrails to fight a rain cloud that was heading moskow so the military parade will be in sunny weather. the parade was sunny :)
i think that was in 2005 or 2006. but i have no clue if thats true or not, was not really interested in it.

[Pushkin]

those aren't chemtrails thats seeding rainclouds.

the Chinese are doing it in the run-up to the olympics in Beijing - its quite effective apparently.

[Alferd_Packer]

Here is a real "chemtrail" experiment. Scientist are using sophisticated LIDAR data and new computer models to predict ice supersatuation.

They plan on using this data to redirect air traffic to lessen the number of persistant chem - contrails. This is big in Europe.

http://www.ecmwf.int/about/special_projects/gierens_ice_supersaturation/index.html

[Furi]

when contrails tend to last for a while it's often an indication of possible tropo ducting for enhanced communciations. This phenomonon is most common in those crisp clear days of late summer or early fall.

So that's the reason, Radio Hams have been seeding planes fuel tanks to be able to use them as signal propagation indicators, or even worse invented jet aircraft to increase comms.

All this just to collect QSL cards from places further a field. 'tis a dastardly and dispicable plot, and you give us all cancer with your shifting magnetic fields, is their no end to your evil intent

You Bastards

[Naughtyhippo]

in German news it was reported that Russia / Putin used some sort of Chemtrails to fight a rain cloud that was heading moskow so the military parade will be in sunny weather. the parade was sunny :)
i think that was in 2005 or 2006. but i have no clue if thats true or not, was not really interested in it.

I heard this off of some bloke in the camera shop - no conspiracy attached to it, just commenting on 'apparently' they used powdered cement that soaked up moisture before it formed clouds. It did make me wonder what the health risks of such a thing were or wether it was the same as being out somewhere dusty.

[Spud1k]

I heard this off of some bloke in the camera shop - no conspiracy attached to it, just commenting on 'apparently' they used powdered cement that soaked up moisture before it formed clouds. It did make me wonder what the health risks of such a thing were or wether it was the same as being out somewhere dusty.

No idea where he heard that form, but it doesn't sound very feasible to me. Cloud formation involves frankly staggering amounts of water and trying to imagine how much cement you'd need to is making my head hurt.

[Spud1k]

those aren't chemtrails thats seeding rainclouds.

the Chinese are doing it in the run-up to the olympics in Beijing - its quite effective apparently.

The Chinese have an entire division of their meteorological research service dedicated to studying weather modification. The US, on the other hand, all but abandoned that avenue a long time ago.

[Alferd_Packer]

I'm surprized no one has mentioned Dyna-Gel yet.

[Elizabeth I]

I heard this off of some bloke in the camera shop - no conspiracy attached to it, just commenting on 'apparently' they used powdered cement that soaked up moisture before it formed clouds. It did make me wonder what the health risks of such a thing were or wether it was the same as being out somewhere dusty.

Dang, I'd hate to be under that slab of concrete when it came to land...

[TjW]

It could give a whole new meaning to the term "hard water".

[beachnut]

I started flying jets in 1975. Chemtrails are dumber than 9/11 truth, and bigfoot squared. Sorry bigfoot fans, now Nessy…


Today I was told by a few first graders, that Nessy is real, I blame the history channel!

[Naughtyhippo]

Dang, I'd hate to be under that slab of concrete when it came to land...

Aah, but there's no aggregate so it's technically not concrete. Although I image the effects would be the same!

Is the whole chemtrails thing getting anywhere in the UK? For some reason, it's almost rarer to see planes without contrails than with, so I wondered if familarity with the phenomenon made people slightly less credulous when it came to this.

[Spud1k]

There was thing a while back where a load of people mysteriously fell sick somewhere one time (I think it was Cornwall or somewhere down there) and there were some people claiming that they saw some odd-looking planes flying above them at the time. Word was there was a weather modification experiment gone wrong or the government deliberately poisoned them for some reason but no-one ever proved anything, naturally.

But the whole 'chemtrail' thing... given how many planes pass over our island, people are so used to seeing contrails that they're barely even noticed. Anyone trying to claim they are anything sinister would get looked at very strangely indeed.

[Confuseling]

That's true to a huge extent, but you've got to remember that most of the truthers and their ilk will hang around on US boards - there are UK versions, but obviously they exist mostly as an adjunct to the US part of it; the backwaters of the same stream.

Once you've got that standard of evidence and you're exposed to that misinformation, the limits of what you'll believe are defined almost purely by your own credulity, and have very little to do with what's happening around you. So people here do believe in Chemtrails, lizard overlords, even Ron Paul.

[DC]

That's true to a huge extent, but you've got to remember that most of the truthers and their ilk will hang around on US boards - there are UK versions, but obviously they exist mostly as an adjunct to the US part of it; the backwaters of the same stream.

Once you've got that standard of evidence and you're exposed to that misinformation, the limits of what you'll believe are defined almost purely by your own credulity, and have very little to do with what's happening around you. So people here do believe in Chemtrails, lizard overlords, even Ron Paul.

Ron Paul belives in lizard man?
he does not even belive in 9/11 inside job......
thats just slander.

[Spud1k]

Ron Paul belives in lizard man?
he does not even belive in 9/11 inside job......
thats just slander.

I think he means people believing in Ron Paul himself, or rather believing in his chances of being elected.

[Spud1k]

That's true to a huge extent, but you've got to remember that most of the truthers and their ilk will hang around on US boards - there are UK versions, but obviously they exist mostly as an adjunct to the US part of it; the backwaters of the same stream.

In part, we've got David Shayler to thank for that. He had quite the home-grown conspiracy movement up until the point where he went off the rails and started claiming to be the messiah.

[Confuseling]

I think he means people believing in Ron Paul himself, or rather believing in his chances of being elected.

Correct.

In part, we've got David Shayler to thank for that. He had quite the home-grown conspiracy movement up until the point where he went off the rails and started claiming to be the messiah.

I've got some Truther friends who know him, and it seems they're trying their hardest to remain supportive and hopeful. I think he's climbed back down from the Messianic claim, but still believes he had a profound religious experience, which is totally fair enough - who's to tell him he didn't?

I think it's sad that people are so openly mocking of him (that's not an accusation at all; your post is perfectly reasonable), it sounded a lot like some kind of psychotic episode, and he's acknowledged his use of magic mushrooms, which obviously can very easily lead to that kind of thing for a person under strain (I may be wrong, but I've heard it said that more people have been diagnosed clinically insane after taking mushrooms than any other drug. Obviously that's to a huge extent down to availability, but still).

I've been guilty of it myself; making the odd snide post. But we shouldn't. I sincerely hope he finds happiness and stability in whatever form suits him.

[Spud1k]

I've been guilty of it myself; making the odd snide post. But we shouldn't. I sincerely hope he finds happiness and stability in whatever form suits him.

To clarify, I was merely trying comment on the CT scene here, so I'm sorry if it came across as snide. I'm not knocking whatever religious experience he had - those things are entirely personal - but openly claiming to be the messiah (on top of a bunch of other things he said) really didn't do his credibility any favours, so many conspiracy theorists became embarrassed to be associated with him.

[defaultdotxbe]

I'm sure your intentions are honorable, but it really is a waste of time. The Chemtrail idea is just another zany conspiracy theory without 1 ounce of proof.
its not just another zany theory, its the quintessential conspiracy theory for the sake of a conspiracy theory

there have never been any sample collected, so no one knows what chemtrails are

since we dont know whats being sprayed we cant know its purpose

we have no idea whos doing, and since we dont know the purpose we cant even follow a motive


and despite all this everyone seems to know exactly whos doing it and why, yet none of them agree, its woo in its purest form

[Confuseling]

To clarify, I was merely trying comment on the CT scene here, so I'm sorry if it came across as snide. I'm not knocking whatever religious experience he had - those things are entirely personal - but openly claiming to be the messiah (on top of a bunch of other things he said) really didn't do his credibility any favours, so many conspiracy theorists became embarrassed to be associated with him.

...(that's not an accusation at all; your post is perfectly reasonable)...

That bit was genuinely meant - I agree entirely with your post, he did make a fool of himself in the eyes of the vast majority, and discredit whatever sensible whistleblowing he may have done up to that point, which is a crying shame if what he claims is true (and please nobody give me that national security ****, nothing he said endangered the UK, but it did reveal some things that, if true, are morally and legally indefensible).

That post was more of a general clarion call to treat him with some sensitivity, with a little bit of guilt on my part for occasionally not having done so, and did not, I assure you, in any way reflect on your post.

[Spud1k]

This was the sight that greeted me on my walk to to the train station this morning. If these are 'chemtrails' we're all doomed...
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/247854827fe916748c.jpg