"Truth Movemant"?? Nope. 9-11 Truth Club

[parky76]

I will no longer refer to these guys as the 9-11 truth movement. they are too small to be a movement. they are basically just a club of a couple hundred guys (and a few gals) who are looking for attention, meaning in life, and help.

They are the 9-11 Truth Club. And thats all they'll ever be.

:(

[theauthor]

I will no longer refer to these guys as the 9-11 truth movemant. they are too small to be a movemant. they are basically just a club of a couple hundred guys (and a few gals) who are looking for attention, meaning in life, and help.

They are the 9-11 Truth Club. And thats all they'll ever be.

:(


At least they can spell movement lol

[parky76]

they are still a club

=)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

At least they can spell movement lol

But not "AND" for some reason. =/

[Childlike Empress]

TAO: How does your partner support your political work?

Nicolai [Nico Haupt]: She's is very active on 9/11 stuff as well but operates with at least 100-150 different identities and socket puppets, mostly as a no-planer

Source (http://whoisnicohaupt.blogspot.com/)

[1337m4n]

TAO: How does your partner support your political work?

Nicolai [Nico Haupt]: She's is very active on 9/11 stuff as well but operates with at least 100-150 different identities and socket puppets, mostly as a no-planer

Source (http://whoisnicohaupt.blogspot.com/)

...Killtown?

[Childlike Empress]

It's strange, today i spend around an hour tracing Nico's web activities of the nineties (in german/Germany). That guy is damned smart. Period. I was very surprised.

Nevermind, i just found the quote to be interesting for the thread. Carry on.

[Stellafane]

I will no longer refer to these guys as the 9-11 truth movement. they are too small to be a movement. they are basically just a club of a couple hundred guys (and a few gals) who are looking for attention, meaning in life, and help.

They are the 9-11 Truth Club. And thats all they'll ever be.

:(

You bring up an interesting point. Let's face it, "Truth Movement" was not only completely untrue, it was doubly untrue -- it wasn't about truth, and it was never a movement. "Club" is certainly far more accurate, but I don't know, it sounds more organized and civil than they deserve. So I think "gang" works a bit better. (I'd consider "Bund" but I don't want to go all Godwin on their sorry asses.) As for "truth," nothing could be less accurate. Then again, it's hard to capture in a word or two the bizarre cocktail of toxic dementia that consitutes their collective emotional makeup. Personally, "that gang of idiots" works for me.

[Confuseling]

Truth spasm?

[Drudgewire]

I don't know, I think the name is just fine as it is. Unless they're willing to change it to "9/11 Truth Dump," a "movement" sums them up nicely. :p

[theauthor]

So, this couple of hundred guys who are looking for attention, meaning in life, and help, are so inconsequential that this forum discusses their every move all day long?

[beachnut]

At least they can spell movement lol
proof? source? evidence?

The 9/11 truth club, is an anti-intellectual contest; who can make up the biggest story and avoid all facts and provide zero or less evidence...

The 9/11 truth club is also a contest to see who can have the dumbest, most irrational sig...

The 9/11 truth club is made up of internet google investigators, who believe everything they want to believe and nothing else. If it ain't on youtube or googleable, it ain't fact. And those facts are cherry picked using no logic, no knowledge, and best if pure fantasy hearsay...

[adversity1]

It's strange, today i spend around an hour tracing Nico's web activities of the nineties (in german/Germany). That guy is damned smart. Period. I was very surprised.



More on this please?

[Drudgewire]

So, this couple of hundred guys who are looking for attention, meaning in life, and help, are so inconsequential that this forum discusses their every move all day long?

You'll notice we usually show in shifts. That's because we're usually out taking part in the conspiracies. This forum is what we call "NWO downtime." :cool:

[Confuseling]

There is that guy who's a computer program. But we don't normally talk about that. It makes him angry.

[chillzero]

You'll notice we usually show in shifts. That's because we're usually out taking part in the conspiracies. This forum is what we call "NWO downtime." :cool:

theauthor makes a good point, because lately this place is more of a dumping ground, and less of a place for discussion related directly to CTs; other than going over old ground. Much of it is dedicated to griping and sniping, or mocking various personalities, and frankly does little credit to the intelligence of many of the regular members.

I guess there are little clubs on both sides.

I hate to post stuff like this, because it makes no acknowledgement of the good work that is being done to refute nonsense, and clarify areas of confusion. That stuff is getting drowned out.

[DC]

I will no longer refer to these guys as the 9-11 truth movement. they are too small to be a movement. they are basically just a club of a couple hundred guys (and a few gals) who are looking for attention, meaning in life, and help.

They are the 9-11 Truth Club. And thats all they'll ever be.

:(

you give alot attention to the truthers, amazing when you consider that you think theyr ideas are totaly wacko

[DC]

theauthor makes a good point, because lately this place is more of a dumping ground, and less of a place for discussion related directly to CTs; other than going over old ground. Much of it is dedicated to griping and sniping, or mocking various personalities, and frankly does little credit to the intelligence of many of the regular members.

I guess there are little clubs on both sides.

I hate to post stuff like this, because it makes no acknowledgement of the good work that is being done to refute nonsense, and clarify areas of confusion. That stuff is getting drowned out.

the good posters on JREF (well those i consider good) are shining even more now i think. they dont take part in the slander and mocking. they can debate without personal atacks, and they seem to know what they talk about, and dont tell nonsence.

theyr are a minority, but a shining one. its still better here than most truthers forums i think.

[mrbaracuda]

It's strange, today i spend around an hour tracing Nico's web activities of the nineties (in german/Germany). That guy is damned smart. Period. I was very surprised.

Nevermind, i just found the quote to be interesting for the thread. Carry on.

die Sendung darf keine gewaltverherlichenden Themen haben, wobei das eher eine willkürliche Auflage ist, um uns möglichst schnell auszuhebeln...

Ich hab glaube ich somit genug gelesen von diesem Haupt. :rolleyes:

[bonavada]

Perhaps "Cult" is a more appropriate term.

BV

[Stellafane]

So, this couple of hundred guys who are looking for attention, meaning in life, and help, are so inconsequential that this forum discusses their every move all day long?

We like easy laughs. (Hey, I never said we were nice. Just sane.)

[Stellafane]

theauthor makes a good point, because lately this place is more of a dumping ground, and less of a place for discussion related directly to CTs; other than going over old ground. Much of it is dedicated to griping and sniping, or mocking various personalities, and frankly does little credit to the intelligence of many of the regular members.

I guess there are little clubs on both sides.

I hate to post stuff like this, because it makes no acknowledgement of the good work that is being done to refute nonsense, and clarify areas of confusion. That stuff is getting drowned out.

I don't agree, and frankly sort of resent what you're saying. Let's face it, most of the people who call themselves truthers deserve to be mocked. They have no interest at all in learning anything, as proven by the fact they post the same questions over and over and simply ignore all the answers. Instead, they just want to post what basically amounts to rhetorical graffitti within this forum. I can only speculate why they do this. If we were to take them all equally seriously, it would be frustrating beyond all reasonable tolerance. In many cases, mockery and responding in kind appear to be the only things they understand.

I can only speak for myself, but I can say that my reasons for posting in this forum are twofold. One is to learn things and contribute what little I can. The other, quite frankly, is for the humor aspect. Some of the exchanges within this forum have caused me to laugh out loud. Some were intended to be funny, some perhaps not. Maybe laughing at truthers while you're waiting for something meaningful to be posted once in a great while isn't the most admirable of pasttimes. But absent this element, it would be very hard to deal with this people, because they are otherwise frustrating and often downright infuriating. And you know what? There's professed CTers on this board with whom I feel I've made some connection by approaching them through a humourous angle.

I don't think anyone is being "drowned out" here. And if you're implying that "both sides" are even remotely equivalent in exibiting clublike behavior, we are in very strong disagreement.

[applecorped]

I don't agree, and frankly sort of resent what you're saying. Let's face it, most of the people who call themselves truthers deserve to be mocked. They have no interest at all in learning anything, as proven by the fact they post the same questions over and over and simply ignore all the answers. Instead, they just want to post what basically amounts to rhetorical graffitti within this forum. I can only speculate why they do this. If we were to take them all equally seriously, it would be frustrating beyond all reasonable tolerance. In many cases, mockery and responding in kind appear to be the only things they understand.

I can only speak for myself, but I can say that my reasons for posting in this forum are twofold. One is to learn things and contribute what little I can. The other, quite frankly, is for the humor aspect. Some of the exchanges within this forum have caused me to laugh out loud. Some were intended to be funny, some perhaps not. Maybe laughing at truthers while you're waiting for something meaningful to be posted once in a great while isn't the most admirable of pasttimes. But absent this element, it would be very hard to deal with this people, because they are otherwise frustrating and often downright infuriating. And you know what? There's professed CTers on this board with whom I feel I've made some connection by approaching them through a humourous angle.

I don't think anyone is being "drowned out" here. And if you're implying that "both sides" are even remotely equivalent in exibiting clublike behavior, we are in very strong disagreement.

I recieved a warning and replied that I thought this forum was being spammed to much and was losing credibility. ChillZero replied:

"I also disagree with your assertion about credibility; given the escalating membership and increasing posts per day. "

I guess the escalating membership and increasing posts might be responsible for this dumping ground?

[chillzero]

Well, Stellafane, I have no issues with you as a member at all. However ... you can resent my comments all you like. I'm afraid the truth of the matter is that this section is supposed to be for discussion of conspiracy theories, and that is not what it is being used for half the time.

I didn't say anyone was being drowned out. I was talking about threads which actually utilise this section as intended. And I also did not give any measurement as to which side is better or worse than the other. What I said was that both sides do what the OP here attributes solely to CTists. I'd like to see anyone try to deny that - given the amount of stuff I have to trawl through daily for moderating this section.

There's a separate section for social stuff. There's a humour section for jokes. Many threads are getting moved from here regularly as inappropriate to this section, and others are dumped in AAH as inappropriate to the JREF forum as a whole.

Others get left to die, because there isn't really anywhere else to dump the number of threads that exists solely to say "hahaha, look at what Dylan / Killtown / Nico / webfairy / Alex Jones has done now" and we aren't going to inflict them on the Community forum. It's ridiculous.

Seriously guys. You need to reconsider what you want to achieve here. And you also need to give the slightest consideration to what the JREF are trying to achieve with the forum as a whole. I can tell you - it isn't what we see here. You have also lost several good members here because the possibility of discussing anything related to a CT other than 911 tends to get chased off the front page within a few small hours. It's a complete obsession here, and it's not healthy.

Yes, I know that 911 was a serious matter, and that you have no wish to disrespect the memories of those who died that day. However, threads like this, and like the ones about 'TM eating itself', or 'Paula Gloria hits the vino'... what the hell do any of you think you are achieving to enhance those memories, and add to the respect held for the victims? Seriously.

[chillzero]

I recieved a warning and replied that I thought this forum was being spammed to much and was losing credibility. ChillZero replied:

"I also disagree with your assertion about credibility; given the escalating membership and increasing posts per day. "

I guess the escalating membership and increasing posts might be responsible for this dumping ground?

Very possibly, however my comment was about the JREF Forum as a whole, as I thought your was. If you were talking about this section, then yes, it's losing credibility but not for the same reasons you were claiming, as I think I have made clear.

[jmercer]

As a New Yorker who watched the second plane hit and the towers collapse on live TV, less than 50 miles from the scene... buildings I'd spent a fair amount of time in in fact... as someone who knew people (on a business basis) in those towers, people who are gone forever... let me say that it totally pisses me off when people stop addressing the argument and start playing personality games.

Every time someone demolishes a troofer's nonsense with logic and cold, hard facts, I smile with grim satisfaction and a bit of vindictive pleasure. (Totally guiltlessly, in fact.) I won't share my personal opinion on "truthers", because that's not germane to this post, but I will say this - killing the idea is what counts. Smearing and mocking the person who puts forward the idea doesn't do crap toward putting this garbage where it belongs. All you ever do by mocking and attacking the person is to make them a martyr for those that agree with them.

[Stellafane]

...Smearing and mocking the person who puts forward the idea doesn't do crap toward putting this garbage where it belongs. All you ever do by mocking and attacking the person is to make them a martyr for those that agree with them.


Personally, I don't do or condone smearing. Mocking, on the other hand...depending on how you define it, I've probably done my share. But I like to think I've avoided mocking of the "you're an idiot" stripe, and instead go more for the "you do realize that saying X, in view of Y, is insane, don't you?" flavor. Whether or not that's contributed to someone's martyrdom is hard for me to ascertain. But sometimes I think it doesn't matter; responding to many truthers with cool, reasoned logic also seems to make them a martyr to a lot of their brethren anyway: "You sure told off those JREF shills -- all they had were a bunch of stupid facts!!! LOL!!!!!"

Yeah, we should all strive to be the dispassionate voices of reason, perhaps more often than we do. But, as you allude to, there's always the "grim satisfaction" factor. I may enjoy a good laugh at the TM's expense, but trust me, it isn't a laugh of merriment and mirth -- "grim" probably comes a lot closer to the truth.

Anyway, I won't contribute further to this particular derail.

[applecorped]

As a New Yorker who watched the second plane hit and the towers collapse on live TV, less than 50 miles from the scene... buildings I'd spent a fair amount of time in in fact... as someone who knew people (on a business basis) in those towers, people who are gone forever... let me say that it totally pisses me off when people stop addressing the argument and start playing personality games.

Every time someone demolishes a troofer's nonsense with logic and cold, hard facts, I smile with grim satisfaction and a bit of vindictive pleasure. (Totally guiltlessly, in fact.) I won't share my personal opinion on "truthers", because that's not germane to this post, but I will say this - killing the idea is what counts. Smearing and mocking the person who puts forward the idea doesn't do crap toward putting this garbage where it belongs. All you ever do by mocking and attacking the person is to make them a martyr for those that agree with them.

Chastizing people for getting emotional and sometimes acting immature is not going to change anything here. Your post was an emotional statement but your guiltless satisfaction and vindictive pleasure displays a sense of schadenfreude. It would be boring as hell if JREFers acted like Spock all the time. Lighten up, troother's ideas are a joke and humans like to laugh.

[chillzero]

Nobody's asking you all to behave like Spock. Just bear in mind where you are and act appropriately, please.

I am certain Library Lady could come up with a good analogy for this....

[jmercer]

Chastizing people for getting emotional and sometimes acting immature is not going to change anything here.

Care to support that opinion? Because my experience is directly the opposite of that - and I can provide evidence supporting my statement.

Your post was an emotional statement but your guiltless satisfaction and vindictive pleasure displays a sense of schadenfreude.

So, schadenfreude is what you call satisfaction when debunking is done?

It would be boring as hell if JREFers acted like Spock all the time. Lighten up, troother's ideas are a joke and humans like to laugh.

I don't care if it's boring, and frankly, I could give a damn whether or not you (or anyone else) gets entertainment out of it. I doubt it was boring to the 2,794 people who died; I doubt it's boring to their remaining family and friends; I doubt it's boring to a lot of New Yorkers and other people, too.

[applecorped]

Care to support that opinion? Because my experience is directly the opposite of that - and I can provide evidence supporting my statement.

Time will out. I see your vindictive pleasure isn’t just reserved for troothers.

So, schadenfreude is what you call satisfaction when debunking is done?
Sorry, should I have used epicaricacy instead?



I don't care if it's boring, and frankly, I could give a damn whether or not you (or anyone else) gets entertainment out of it. I doubt it was boring to the 2,794 people who died; I doubt it's boring to their remaining family and friends; I doubt it's boring to a lot of New Yorkers and other people, too.

I doubt they are here reading any of this and if some have I am sure they would gladly deride a troother for their nonsense, humans tend to get emotional like that over sensitive topics. Nice appeal to emotion though.

[DC]

how can one judge what the peoples that died on 9/11 would want.
i can fully understand the anger against me and my oppinion from peoples like jmercer or others, because it will always be a very sad and emotional topic to talk about, especially when very diffrent oppinions confront eachother when they read my posts.
but to say things like "I doubt they are here reading any of this and if some have I am sure they would gladly deride ...." is just wrong .

[chillzero]

I agree.

it's also really irrelevant to the point I've been trying to make about behaviour and topic control in this section.

[applecorped]

how can one judge what the peoples that died on 9/11 would want.
i can fully understand the anger against me and my oppinion from peoples like jmercer or others, because it will always be a very sad and emotional topic to talk about, especially when very diffrent oppinions confront eachother when they read my posts.
but to say things like "I doubt they are here reading any of this and if some have I am sure they would gladly deride ...." is just wrong .

What is wrong DC is you believing that WTC7 was a CD which would necessitate the involvement of the FDNY. You seem to have no problem throwing them under the bus to advance your beliefs, hypocrite.

[CHF]

chillzero,

Why shouldn't the focus of this forum be on 9/11? It's the newest and most talked-about conspiracy in this day and age. You'll notice that other modern CTs like the NAU or the Amero also get plenty of attention when brought up.

Most other CTs don't get the same attention because they're too old and completely discredited and irrelevant. Give it some time and 9/11 CTs will go the same route.

As for the mocking that goes on here, I don't think it's realistic to expect people to have seen the hilarious and pathetic antics of the TM and not feel the need to mock them. Some people simply don't deserve respect.

[chillzero]

chillzero,

Why shouldn't the focus of this forum be on 9/11? It's the newest and most talked-about conspiracy in this day and age. You'll notice that other modern CTs like the NAU or the Amero also get plenty of attention when brought up.

Most other CTs don't get the same attention because they're too old and completely discredited and irrelevant. Give it some time and 9/11 CTs will go the same route.

I understand that - I'm not saying it should be ignored or not discussed.

I'm more concerned that good participants leave the section, and that half decent conversations get drowned out by threads that frankly shouldn't be here and serve no real purpose.

As for the mocking that goes on here, I don't think it's realistic to expect people to have seen the hilarious and pathetic antics of the TM and not feel the need to mock them. Some people simply don't deserve respect.

That's fine - in moderation. I'm saying there's too much of it, from both sides, and it usually descends to levels that breach the MA.

[jhunter1163]

First of all, I'm probably one of the worst offenders when it comes to snarkiness, and for that I apologize.

I will not, however, apologize for my anger and frustration and disgust with the so-called "truther" movement. These people are trying to gain attention and fame and money out of the deaths of 2,974 people, one of whom was very dear to me. These "truthers" sicken me, and they should be exposed as the frauds and charlatans they are at every possible opportunity. JREF has done yeoman's work in doing just that, and I applaud all of you for it.

There has, however, been a serious decline in the quality of discussion here in the last few months or so. This has made it all too easy to simply post a link to a previous thread on whatever tired talking point the Truther of the week trots out, and then proceed directly to the snark. And, again, I'm probably the one of the worst offenders.

I do hope, though, that you understand that this "truth" nonsense touches me personally. I know I should be a better person, attack the argument and not the arguer, and so on.. but it's tough to do that and getting tougher. Maybe I should take a break...

[munki?]

F
There has, however, been a serious decline in the quality of discussion here in the last few months or so. This has made it all too easy to simply post a link to a previous thread on whatever tired talking point the Truther of the week trots out, and then proceed directly to the snark. [/snip]

I have also noticed a lot of gossip rag quality to the threads lately. Some of them remind me of celebrity reality television. It's a shame, really. But I think it also may be a symptom of a debate that has no end. Since the "truth" movement seems to refuse to bring their evidence into a venue where it can be scrutinized and substantiated, all there is to debate is an unsubstantiated group of theories. Certainly a maddening endeavor.

[jmercer]

I doubt they are here reading any of this and if some have I am sure they would gladly deride a troother for their nonsense, humans tend to get emotional like that over sensitive topics. Nice appeal to emotion though.

Nice evasion. What, exactly, is your problem with me saying people should take this topic seriously and not turn it into light-hearted banter?

Additionally, I note that your preferred method of debate is to personalize the discussion. Weak approach, very weak.

[chillzero]

jhunter,
I have no problem with the occasional bit of banter, falling out, anger, frustation, mockery, etc. I just feel it's overboard here lately, and my sentiments agree with what munki put very nicely in the following:

I have also noticed a lot of gossip rag quality to the threads lately. Some of them remind me of celebrity reality television. It's a shame, really.

[CHF]

There has, however, been a serious decline in the quality of discussion here in the last few months or so.

I've noticed this too and would chalk it up to the fact that the TM simply isn't coming up with anything new anymore.

A year or two ago their talking points needed to be countered and debunked, and that was done so effectively and rationally. Today all we find are twoofers repeating the same mindless crap that was torn apart in 06/07, or else dressing it up in slightly different packaging.

The debate itself is pretty much over so what is there left to do other than mock them and laugh at their latest shenanigans?

[applecorped]

Nice evasion. What, exactly, is your problem with me saying people should take this topic seriously and not turn it into light-hearted banter?

Additionally, I note that your preferred method of debate is to personalize the discussion. Weak approach, very weak.

Actually, I wasn't debating you. You have seem to be taking this very personally. This forum is entertainment for many people here, read the other posts. You don't have to like it:

"I don't care if it's boring, and frankly, I could give a damn whether or not you (or anyone else) gets entertainment out of it"

Why are you even replying? If you don't give a damn then stop, go guiltlessly demolish troothers with the truth and ignore us weak people who are looking for some levity.

[T.A.M.]

Though the discussion has widely veered off the rails, I will add my 2 cents.

When I first came to these forums, it was much different in certain ways. While all of the information was out there, most of it was hard to find, and there were some great posters here who found it, collected it, made it available.

Now, all of the arguments are old. The evidence has been provided for the truthers, and they can either choose to believe it or not...now it is essentially up to opinion.

Personally, I find most of the topics here (CT subforum) boring, in that it is either (A) a rehash of an old topic that can be answered by simply linking to the old JREF thread, or (B) name calling or persona bashing.

There is a reason why myself and others who once posted here 30-40 times per day, now rarely do, or not at all.

It can not be blamed on a single person, or even a group, but rather it can be blamed on this forum being mostly dedicated to a topic that has jumped the shark, both in terms of interest from the General Public, and in terms of arguments (interesting or rational ones) to be made.

TAM:)

[Drudgewire]

As one of the offenders, I must say I love the serious discourse here. I've learned so much from those with more technical knowledge than I'll ever have and as a former CT'er I wish like hell I'd seen something like this when my brain was turning to mush.

Personally, what sets me off down the path of mocking is those who come here and start a bunch of new threads, or ask a question within threads, and after the serious responses have been given they act like they never read them, or move onto another topic without ever acknowledging the answers that have been given. And then a page later go back and pretend their issues have never been addressed.

At that point it becomes playground. I'm not saying it's right so much as saying it's human nature... especially on the Internet.

Plus Randi is soooo brilliant at getting the good jabs in it's almost like trying to pay tribute. :)

[jmercer]

Actually, I wasn't debating you. You have seem to be taking this very personally. This forum is entertainment for many people here, read the other posts. You don't have to like it:

"I don't care if it's boring, and frankly, I could give a damn whether or not you (or anyone else) gets entertainment out of it"

Why are you even replying? If you don't give a damn then stop, go guiltlessly demolish troothers with the truth and ignore us weak people who are looking for some levity.

Whether or not you were debating me at the time is irrelevant, since you are clearly debating me now on this point. I still await the answer to this question - why do you disagree with my position that 9/11 truther debunking should be taken seriously, and not frivolously?

Almost three thousand people were murdered that day; two countries were plunged into war... and thousands more have died since. In the meantime, 9/11 truthers do their best to point the finger of guilt at just about everyone but the guilty parties.

Explain why I should agree with you that it's ok to joke about this?

[applecorped]

You don't like it, I got it. Debates over.

[T.A.M.]

I think it is human to vent in many different ways, and for some, mocking is often a way of venting frustration with someone you perceive to be ignorant to the facts or to your opinion.

I think the occasional mocking, the occasional sarcastic comment DIRECTED AT those who daily mock the people who lost their lives on that day, is human, and tolerable, but when it becomes the point of entire threads, over and over again, it is taking it a bit far.

Even I have been guilty of such a few times, perhaps a few times too many, but that does not excuse it.

TAM:)

[aggle-rithm]

Is it wrong to mock someone who has no clue he's being mocked?

Discuss.

[chillzero]

I think the occasional mocking, the occasional sarcastic comment DIRECTED AT those who daily mock the people who lost their lives on that day, is human, and tolerable, but when it becomes the point of entire threads, over and over again, it is taking it a bit far.

I completely agree.

I've noticed this too and would chalk it up to the fact that the TM simply isn't coming up with anything new anymore.

A year or two ago their talking points needed to be countered and debunked, and that was done so effectively and rationally. Today all we find are twoofers repeating the same mindless crap that was torn apart in 06/07, or else dressing it up in slightly different packaging.

The debate itself is pretty much over so what is there left to do other than mock them and laugh at their latest shenanigans?

My suggestion? Go out and visit the other areas of the forum. If you get bored with your toys in your bedroom, you shouldn't trash the room. Why not go downstairs to watch tv or read a book in the living room, or play ball in the garden?

We have some more relaxed banter that may suit those who enjoy sarcasm in the Community section. There's more confrontation in politics. The Social Issues and Current Events is popular too. Seriously - this isn't the only part of the forum - there's a whole world out there. If you aren't getting the challenging discussion here any more that you crave, then go tell evolutionists what you make of their claims, or vent a little about freaks who lock up and rape their daughters.

[LastChild]

I will no longer refer to these guys as the 9-11 truth movement. they are too small to be a movement. they are basically just a club of a couple hundred guys (and a few gals) who are looking for attention, meaning in life, and help.

They are the 9-11 Truth Club. And thats all they'll ever be.

:(

I have a confession to make you found me out. It's not even a club.

I am every single truther on the internet.

See? There are real conspiracies. Well I have to go now. I'm extremely busy.

[Par]

I will no longer refer to these guys as the 9-11 truth movement. they are too small to be a movement. they are basically just a club of a couple hundred guys (and a few gals) who are looking for attention...I have a confession to make you found me out. It's not even a club. I am every single truther on the internet.


I suspect that you just said that for the attention.

[theauthor]

As a New Yorker who watched the second plane hit and the towers collapse on live TV, less than 50 miles from the scene... buildings I'd spent a fair amount of time in in fact... as someone who knew people (on a business basis) in those towers, people who are gone forever... let me say that it totally pisses me off when people stop addressing the argument and start playing personality games.

Every time someone demolishes a troofer's nonsense with logic and cold, hard facts, I smile with grim satisfaction and a bit of vindictive pleasure. (Totally guiltlessly, in fact.) I won't share my personal opinion on "truthers", because that's not germane to this post, but I will say this - killing the idea is what counts. Smearing and mocking the person who puts forward the idea doesn't do crap toward putting this garbage where it belongs. All you ever do by mocking and attacking the person is to make them a martyr for those that agree with them.

In light of that, why is it mainly CTist who are banned here?

I was amazed to learn today that Ace Baker was banned for repeatedly posting his own original work here....meanwhile several posters here do no original work whatsoever and in fact just insult people all day, but they arent banned.

[LastChild]

I suspect that you just said that for the attention.

Not just for any attention. It's just for you and only you. It's always been for you Par.

Par?

Why don't you love me?

[Par]

In light of that, why is it mainly CTist who are banned here? I was amazed to learn today that Ace Baker was banned for repeatedly posting his own original work here....meanwhile several posters here do no original work whatsoever and in fact just insult people all day, but they arent banned.


It is mainly conspiracy theorists who are banned because it is mainly conspiracy theorists who break the rules. Ace Baker is a case in point. He repeatedly broke the rules, in spite of warnings. As a result, he was banned. This has already been explained to you.

[beachnut]

In light of that, why is it mainly CTist who are banned here?

I was amazed to learn today that Ace Baker was banned for repeatedly posting his own original work here....meanwhile several posters here do no original work whatsoever and in fact just insult people all day, but they arent banned.
You are spreading hearsay and false information without facts and evidence, that is an insult.

We get banned when we break the rules. Period. You are posting off topic. Oops so am i.

The No Clue Club is 9/11 truth. Next time get the facts straight, and learn the truth about your club of hearsay.

[theauthor]

It is mainly conspiracy theorists who are banned because it is mainly conspiracy theorists who break the rules.


LOL

Are you sure it isn't because the CTs are outnumbered by obsessed skeptics who sit poised on their report buttons, and have to brag that they have reported someone, then those reports reach a moderation team made up entirely of non CTists?

Has their ever been a moderator here who believes in conspiracy theories?

[Good Lt]

I have a confession to make you found me out. It's not even a club.

I am every single truther on the internet.

See? There are real conspiracies. Well I have to go now. I'm extremely busy.

And along comes a member of the Troof club to validate the thread's premise.

[Good Lt]

LOL
Yeah, I know. That was just hilarious.

Has their ever been a moderator here who believes in conspiracy theories?Has there ever been a Troofer here who could post any of the "irrefutable (and apparently invisible)" evidence they formulate their baseless fantasies on?

I'd think that the mods would be more sympathetic to the Troofer dogma if there were, you know, ANY evidence to support it. As such, there isn't.

[theauthor]

Yeah, I know. That was just hilarious.

Has there ever been a Troofer here who could post any of the "irrefutable (and apparently invisible)" evidence they formulate their baseless fantasies on?

I'd think that the mods would be more sympathetic to the Troofer dogma if there were, you know, ANY evidence to support it. As such, there isn't.


If somebody like redibis applied to be a moderator do you think he would be considered?

[beachnut]

LOL

Are you sure it isn't because the CTs are outnumbered by obsessed skeptics who sit poised on their report buttons, and have to brag that they have reported someone, then those reports reach a moderation team made up entirely of non CTists?

Has their ever been a moderator here who believes in conspiracy theories?
Moderators have to be rational; there are no 9/11 truth members who qualify.

Still off topic! But I can help. What is a good name for the 9/11 truth club?

No Joy Luck Club?

[Par]

Are you sure it isn't because the CTs are outnumbered by obsessed skeptics who sit poised on their report buttons, and have to brag that they have reported someone, then those reports reach a moderation team made up entirely of non CTists? Has their ever been a moderator here who believes in conspiracy theories?


(I notice that you’ve dropped the issue of Ace Baker’s banning. Can I take it from this that you accept that he was banned because he repeatedly broke the rules?)

As far as I understand it, warnings, etc. are not automatically issued whenever a post has been reported a certain number of times. Rather, it is only if the reported post breaks the rules that action is taken. Thus, however many people report a given post is irrelevant. In any event, if you have any evidence of moderator corruption, then I suggest you present it on the relevant subforum.

[theauthor]

I've noticed this too and would chalk it up to the fact that the TM simply isn't coming up with anything new anymore.

A year or two ago their talking points needed to be countered and debunked, and that was done so effectively and rationally. Today all we find are twoofers repeating the same mindless crap that was torn apart in 06/07, or else dressing it up in slightly different packaging.

The debate itself is pretty much over so what is there left to do other than mock them and laugh at their latest shenanigans?


Ok, here is something new for you to sink your teeth into.

"Zero: An investigation into 911" is the latest 911 truth film (it is the one that was shown at the EU parliament). It reportedly cost a million euros to make.

It features many claims I have never seen before, it is far better than any Loose Change version and it is out-and-out MIHOP.

Download it here:

http://www.sumotorrent.com/en/details/1058380/Zero%20-%20An%20Investigation%20Into%209%2011.html

[Par]

If somebody like redibis applied to be a moderator do you think he would be considered?


I would certainly hope not.

[theauthor]

I would certainly hope not.

Why?

[stateofgrace]

If somebody like redibis applied to be a moderator do you think he would be considered?

Dear God, stop winging. You know the nature of this forum, that being, your theory is put to the test and evidence is demanded of your claims.

If you have an issue, take it else where. Stop winging, man up and do something about your issues rather than bore the living day lights out of people with them.

[theauthor]

(I notice that you’ve dropped the issue of Ace Baker’s banning. Can I take it from this that you accept that he was banned because he repeatedly broke the rules?)

As far as I understand it, warnings, etc. are not automatically issued whenever a post has been reported a certain number of times. Rather, it is only if the reported post breaks the rules that action is taken. Thus, however many people report a given post is irrelevant. In any event, if you have any evidence of moderator corruption, then I suggest you present it on the relevant subforum.

I never mentioned moderator corruption. Do you know something I don't?

[theauthor]

Dear God, stop winging. You know the nature of this forum, that being, your theory is put to the test and evidence is demanded of your claims.

If you have an issue, take it else where. Stop winging, man up and do something about your issues rather than bore the living day lights out of people with them.

I asked a question. Your post proved you couldn't answer it.

[Par]

I never mentioned moderator corruption. Do you know something I don't?


(I notice that you’ve dropped the issue of Ace Baker’s banning. Can I take it from this that you accept that he was banned because he repeatedly broke the rules?)

Well, I know that you mentioned moderator corruption. That’s something that you’re at least pretending that you don’t know.

[theauthor]

(I notice that you’ve dropped the issue of Ace Baker’s banning. Can I take it from this that you accept that he was banned because he repeatedly broke the rules?)

Well, I know that you mentioned moderator corruption. That’s something that you’re at least pretending that you don’t know.

Rather than react to your accusation I will put you on ignore.

[stateofgrace]

I asked a question. Your post proved you couldn't answer it.

What? For God sake grow up.

If you don't like this forum clear off, nobody is forcing you to post here, nobody is forcing you to engage in debate with us undesirables. If you don't like it here, simply clear off, if you believe you are unfairly victimised take it to the appropriate subsection, but for god sake stop acting like the poor victim who is oppressed and singled out. It is pathetic.

[Par]

Rather than react to your accusation I will put you on ignore.


Well, it looks like you’re the yin to LastChild’s yang.

[theauthor]

I haven't mentioned me. Stateofgrace please answer:

If redibis applied to be a moderator do you think he would be considered?

Do not try and make your reply about me. Do not accuse me of whinging or tell me to clear off ( i enjoy posting here BTW). Just answer the question, if you can.

[stateofgrace]

I haven't mentioned me. Stateofgrace please answer:

If redibis applied to be a moderator do you think he would be considered?

Do not try and make your reply about me. Do not accuse me of whinging or tell me to clear off ( i enjoy posting here BTW). Just answer the question, if you can.

Why are you asking me?

I don't respond to hypothetical, whinging posts, stop making them and make a reasonable post and you will receive a reasonable response.

On you go.

[theauthor]

Why are you asking me?

I don't respond to hypothetical, whinging posts, stop making them and make a reasonable post and you will receive a reasonable response.

On you go.

I didn't ask you lol

I asked the question generally to anyone and you immediately responded. Must have hit a nerve somewhere.


Where exactly did I whinge?

[stateofgrace]

I didn't ask you lol



Really?

I haven't mentioned me. Stateofgrace please answer:


This is the point you go on ignore, troll.I have better things to do with my time than engage in a pissing contest with you.

[beachnut]

http://www.sumotorrent.com/en/details/1058380/Zero%20-%20An%20Investigation%20Into%209%2011.html
Why do you present more false information, what an insult to reality. When will you be able to identify false information?

The “false information club” is the best thing to call your newfound club.

[theauthor]

Really?



This is the point you go on ignore, troll.I have better things to do with my time than engage in a pissing contest with you.


Yes, that's right, run away and put me on ignore. Make sure you don't forget to put your fingers in your ears and shout "lalalalalalalala"

Wow, I never envisaged my simple question would be quite so scary.

[chillzero]

There's no real point in asking the members about how the mods and admins handle stuff behind the scenes.

I can tell you that there would be discussion about anyone who applied to be a moderator, and you picked an interesting example. However, there are no open places for mods just now, so the point is moot.

[Confuseling]

theauthor, I would very much like to post on a 911 conspiracy website with a moderator who believes that Al-Qaeda did it without inside assistance.

Go boy! Fetch!

[mrbaracuda]

I didn't ask you lol

I asked the question generally to anyone and you immediately responded. Must have hit a nerve somewhere.


Do you even know what you are on about?
You said

I asked the question generally to anyone

and he responds. Now how were you not asking him if you ask everyone here? No wonder your "movement" can't achieve anything with people like you who are also in the "top tier". Sad.

[T.A.M.]

theauthor:

here, if you wish to know the ins and outs of ACE's suspension and banning,

suspension
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=85757
banning
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89328

Thread where it began...
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2716690#post2716690)

Like I said before, if you have issue with it, Forum Management (where all of the above threads come from) is the appropriate place.

TAM:)

[mrbaracuda]

Ok, here is something new for you to sink your teeth into.

Make a thread on it. And do us a favour and list all the points the "movie" is trying to make.

[theauthor]

There's no real point in asking the members about how the mods and admins handle stuff behind the scenes.

I can tell you that there would be discussion about anyone who applied to be a moderator, and you picked an interesting example. However, there are no open places for mods just now, so the point is moot.

Fair enough, but in my honest opinion, I don't think that a CT, even one with 5000 respectful posts and a history of moderating forums, would be allowed to be a moderator here.

BTW this isn't any kind of whinge about myself, since I wouldn't want to be a moderator on any board. I would just like to see a more mixed set of moderators on all conspiracy boards.

[theauthor]

theauthor, I would very much like to post on a 911 conspiracy website with a moderator who believes that Al-Qaeda did it without inside assistance.

Go boy! Fetch!


I totally agree with you. I would like to see a mix of moderators on all boards.

P.S. Saying that someone else does something wrong doesn't make it morally right for you to do something wrong.

[theauthor]

Make a thread on it. And do us a favour and list all the points the "movie" is trying to make.

Erm...you could just try watching it. I'm not your researcher.

[chillzero]

Fair enough, but in my honest opinion, I don't think that a CT, even one with 5000 respectful posts and a history of moderating forums, would be allowed to be a moderator here.


Personally, I don't think a member's personal beliefs should impact the possibility of them being a moderator - we have some who believe in God, which some vocal skeptics feel disallows people to claim skepticism and even sanity. My concern with moderators is their ability to be balanced and fair. However, this is probably more a topic for forum management, so if you disagree and wish to debate it further, you should start a new thread there.

[Confuseling]

...
P.S. Saying that someone else does something wrong doesn't make it morally right for you to do something wrong.

No, but holding a group up to a standard not met by anybody, anywhere, does what? Are you the Messiah?

[TjW]

Moderators have to be rational; there are no 9/11 truth members who qualify.

Still off topic! But I can help. What is a good name for the 9/11 truth club?

No Joy Luck Club?


I'd like to propose The 911 He-man Authority-hater Club.

Yes, I realize there are actually a few women involved, but it still seems appropriate.

[mrbaracuda]

Erm...you could just try watching it. I'm not your researcher.

So you're just here to JAQ off. Fair enough. :rolleyes:

[aggle-rithm]

theauthor:

here, if you wish to know the ins and outs of ACE's suspension and banning,

suspension
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=85757
banning
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89328

Thread where it began...
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2716690#post2716690)

Like I said before, if you have issue with it, Forum Management (where all of the above threads come from) is the appropriate place.

TAM:)

Also, this little bit of wisdom bears to be repeated:

Being treated unfairly does not make you right.

[aggle-rithm]

Erm...you could just try watching it. I'm not your researcher.

Time to pull this comic strip out of the archives again:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/514647b4a19730570.png

[1337m4n]

Well, theauthor, if it's more neutral moderators you're looking for, I could give you a tour of the Loose Change forums or the Pilots For Truth forums.

Oh wait, I'm banned at both. With less than 5 posts, no less.

The mods here do an excellent job and I commend them for showing as much neutrality as they do given the sensitive nature of this issue.

[Confuseling]

...The mods here do an excellent job and I commend them for showing as much neutrality as they do given the sensitive nature of this issue. Except Lisa Simpson, who we all find quite reprehensible.

Fixed that for ya. ;)

[aggle-rithm]

Ok, here is something new for you to sink your teeth into.

"Zero: An investigation into 911" is the latest 911 truth film (it is the one that was shown at the EU parliament). It reportedly cost a million euros to make.

It features many claims I have never seen before, it is far better than any Loose Change version and it is out-and-out MIHOP.

Download it here:

http://www.sumotorrent.com/en/details/1058380/Zero%20-%20An%20Investigation%20Into%209%2011.html

OK, I've got some insightful thoughts about your movie.

Please rent "Gone With the Wind". In the fourth or fifth act, Scarlett O'Hara says something that sums up perfectly my view on the matter.

[CHF]

Ok, here is something new for you to sink your teeth into.

"Zero: An investigation into 911" is the latest 911 truth film (it is the one that was shown at the EU parliament). It reportedly cost a million euros to make.

It features many claims I have never seen before, it is far better than any Loose Change version and it is out-and-out MIHOP.

Download it here:

http://www.sumotorrent.com/en/details/1058380/Zero%20-%20An%20Investigation%20Into%209%2011.html

Is that the movie that shows a cartoon of the "SAM missile batteries" at the Pentagon poping up out of the lawn?

[theauthor]

Is that the movie that shows a cartoon of the "SAM missile batteries" at the Pentagon poping up out of the lawn?

No.

You watched it yet? Or are you just going to carry on pretending that there is nothing new and you are bored?

[Alt+F4]

No.

You watched it yet? Or are you just going to carry on pretending that there is nothing new and you are bored?

The majority of the trailer is about how UBL isn't on the FBI's most wanted list. That information is not new.

So the government lied about it's involvement in 9/11 but of course the FBI told the truth in regard to UBL's involvement.

According to the "truthers" half of the federal government is lying and the other half is telling the truth. Maybe the "truthers" should compile a list.

[parky76]

dont you get it? Mulder is still at the FBI, trying to blow the lid on the conspiracy. but skully, the governmant loyalist, keeps stopping him from doing his job.

cia= skully
fbi= mulder

=)

[GreNME]

theauthor makes a good point, because lately this place is more of a dumping ground, and less of a place for discussion related directly to CTs; other than going over old ground. Much of it is dedicated to griping and sniping, or mocking various personalities, and frankly does little credit to the intelligence of many of the regular members.

I guess there are little clubs on both sides.

I hate to post stuff like this, because it makes no acknowledgement of the good work that is being done to refute nonsense, and clarify areas of confusion. That stuff is getting drowned out.
Well, Stellafane, I have no issues with you as a member at all. However ... you can resent my comments all you like. I'm afraid the truth of the matter is that this section is supposed to be for discussion of conspiracy theories, and that is not what it is being used for half the time.

I didn't say anyone was being drowned out. I was talking about threads which actually utilise this section as intended. And I also did not give any measurement as to which side is better or worse than the other. What I said was that both sides do what the OP here attributes solely to CTists. I'd like to see anyone try to deny that - given the amount of stuff I have to trawl through daily for moderating this section.

There's a separate section for social stuff. There's a humour section for jokes. Many threads are getting moved from here regularly as inappropriate to this section, and others are dumped in AAH as inappropriate to the JREF forum as a whole.

Others get left to die, because there isn't really anywhere else to dump the number of threads that exists solely to say "hahaha, look at what Dylan / Killtown / Nico / webfairy / Alex Jones has done now" and we aren't going to inflict them on the Community forum. It's ridiculous.

Seriously guys. You need to reconsider what you want to achieve here. And you also need to give the slightest consideration to what the JREF are trying to achieve with the forum as a whole. I can tell you - it isn't what we see here. You have also lost several good members here because the possibility of discussing anything related to a CT other than 911 tends to get chased off the front page within a few small hours. It's a complete obsession here, and it's not healthy.

Yes, I know that 911 was a serious matter, and that you have no wish to disrespect the memories of those who died that day. However, threads like this, and like the ones about 'TM eating itself', or 'Paula Gloria hits the vino'... what the hell do any of you think you are achieving to enhance those memories, and add to the respect held for the victims? Seriously.

Quoted For Truth, and this has been key to my previous protestations and I think plays a large role in the observations I was bringing up in the Forum Management section where jmercer was arguing with me to back up what I was claiming. It's nice to see that people other than myself and who have a bit more credibility with others around here are pointing out the troubling tone of many posts. I've been avoiding taking part around here lately, mostly for reasons described in the above quotes, and I'm not a truther, nor do I subscribe to any related conspiracy theories.

Thank you, chill. You made my day a little bit brighter reading this. :)

[dudalb]

dont you get it? Mulder is still at the FBI, trying to blow the lid on the conspiracy. but skully, the governmant loyalist, keeps stopping him from doing his job.

cia= skully
fbi= mulder

=)

If that is the plot of the upcoming new X Files movie, I am staying home.

[aggle-rithm]

No.

You watched it yet? Or are you just going to carry on pretending that there is nothing new and you are bored?

Have you watched 'Gone with the Wind' yet?

It's only five hours. Hop to it!