The Truther Vilification of the FDNY...

[Blender Head]

A quick examination of Truthers implicating the FDNY with the murder of 2,700 people in New York City. It includes Alex Jones, Jason Bermas, and Graeme MacQueen.

iOkEhaytW9A

[twinstead]

There is NO way the truthers can ignore the FDNY. In some strange, twisted way I applaud the truthers who actually come out and say, rather than cleverly imply, they think the FDNY was complicit. But woe to those who say--and you KNOW who you are--they were incompetent.

[Bobert]

Excellent video!
"jedi mind trick" I am sure!

[Blender Head]

There is NO way the truthers can ignore the FDNY. In some strange, twisted way I applaud the truthers who actually come out and say, rather than cleverly imply, they think the FDNY was complicit. But woe to those who say--and you KNOW who you are--they were incompetent.

I agree. It's the same concept with anti-Semites who overtly attack Jews, instead of "Zionists", "bankers" and other euphemisms.

[Garb]

Did Gravy ever get that six pack of beer?

[Tweeter]

I dont believe they were in on it. They just did as they were told, like a good public servant would.

[Pushkin]

Tweeter,

told by who? if the lower ranks were told by their superiors then thats one level of FDNY involvement, with the top ranks being 'in on it'

but if the men who are traditionally in charge at the scene are being told by outside agencies how to run their operation - and then dozens of their own men die in the event; then their ensuing silence is complicity post 9/11.

which ever way you slice and dice if 'they were told' then it means either during or since members of the FDNY are covering up the deaths of their comrades plus 2500+ members of the public who they normally protect.

[Confuseling]

I presume everyone's aware of this thread with a little background to the 118 witnesses:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=113334

[Thunder]

Great video. 9-11 Deniars have to lie.....its their only hope.

[Blender Head]

Did Gravy ever get that six pack of beer?

No, the guy he made the bet with reneged I believe.

[twinstead]

I dont believe they were in on it. They just did as they were told, like a good public servant would.

Ah, So these firemen are mindless automatons who believe what they are told contrary to evidence they may have seen with their own eyes. Interesting. Make up your mind; are they drones or incompetents?

Full circle we go. They either were mindless drones, 'in on it', or so incompetent that they couldn't tell the difference between a CD and a collapse due to damage and fire. To prevent a false dilemma, can you give me a 4th or 5th option that I don't see here?

Tweeter you are between a rock and a hard place on this one.

[Thunder]

did as they were told? you really have a low opinion of firemen and nyc employees. if i was told to accept a bribe or cover up criminal activity I'd say "hell no".

[Blender Head]

I dont believe they were in on it. They just did as they were told, like a good public servant would.

How come the FDNY couldn't prevent outrage over the deaths of the firefighters in the Deutsche Bank accident?

[Brainster]

Great job, Blenderhead. I've got a post going up on SLC later this afternoon with this included.

[DavidJames]

I dont believe they were in on it. They just did as they were told, like a good public servant would.So what you are saying is they are cowards who refused to do the right thing in favor of pleasing their bosses.

What would you have done Tweeter?

[Blender Head]

So what you are saying is they are cowards who refused to do the right thing in favor of pleasing their bosses.

What would you have done Tweeter?

He'd have taken the compensation money, but consider it a "donation" for the "cause".

[DaN K. StAnLeY]

The thing that gets me is, that it doesn't even seem like these "twoofer" jerks even realize what they are implying. Do they really think that men who stare death in the face every day are scared of the GOVERNMENT?? Or that they would take money in return for silence about who went through with this conspiracy.....sigh.

Trying to explain something like this to them and your a "strawman". I think Webster must have defined "strawman" as " One who uses facts and proof to argue their case."

[johnny karate]

I dont believe they were in on it. They just did as they were told, like a good public servant would.

So... the evil geniuses behind this vast conspiracy just crossed their fingers and hoped that no one in the FDNY would notice the controlled demolitions, and if they did, unanimously decide to keep quiet about it?

Man, those NWO guys are really lucky SOBs aren't they?

[BenBurch]

I dont believe they were in on it. They just did as they were told, like a good public servant would.

And what do you allege they were told to do?

Be specific, now.

[Pushkin]

seems Tweeter is so stuck between the rock and the hard place that he can't extricate himself to post his reply.....

[LashL]

A quick examination of Truthers implicating the FDNY with the murder of 2,700 people in New York City. It includes Alex Jones, Jason Bermas, and Graeme MacQueen.

iOkEhaytW9A


Nice work, Blender Head.

[aggle-rithm]

Tweeter,

told by who?

These guys:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/5146482612bab472f.jpg

For some reason, whenever someone in an official-looking dark suit asks public servants to do something, they follow the order without question.

[Tweeter]

They follow orders, plain and simple. I doubt they were thinking bombs were in the buildings before they came down. The second tower was abandoned before it fell. The explosions started at the top,sound doesnt travel to fast so atleast a few floors were already down, so it would be hard to tell the difference between bombs and collapsing noises.
I really dont understand you guys, do you want me to say they were in on it? Alot of firemen said it was boom boom boom like someone would demo a building. Firemen did say it was like bombs going off.
I guess they couldnt prove it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXD3bAbZCow&feature=related

[Tweeter]

Gravy loses the bet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azdkPT4eDaE
Larry says theres been a great loss of life so "pull it".
Then they made the decision to pull and we watched the building fall.

[aggle-rithm]

They follow orders, plain and simple. I doubt they were thinking bombs were in the buildings before they came down.

So what orders do you think they were following, that allowed them to assist in a secret controlled demolition without arousing their suspicion?

The second tower was abandoned before it fell. The explosions started at the top,sound doesnt travel to fast so atleast a few floors were already down, so it would be hard to tell the difference between bombs and collapsing noises.


The sound would take about one second to reach the ground. There is usually more than one second between the start of demolition blasts and the collapse of a building.


I really dont understand you guys, do you want me to say they were in on it? Alot of firemen said it was boom boom boom like someone would demo a building.

Except that in a building demo, the booms occur BEFORE the building collapses.

Firemen did say it was like bombs going off.
I guess they couldnt prove it.


Do you know what a "simile" is?

[aggle-rithm]

Gravy loses the bet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azdkPT4eDaE
Larry says theres been a great loss of life so "pull it".
Then they made the decision to pull and we watched the building fall.

Can you explain how "pull it" could possibly be interpreted as "destroy building 7" in the context of that sentence?

Not to mention the absurdity of the idea that Silverstein would tell a fire chief to do this.

[BenBurch]

They follow orders, plain and simple. I doubt they were thinking bombs were in the buildings before they came down. The second tower was abandoned before it fell. The explosions started at the top,sound doesnt travel to fast so atleast a few floors were already down, so it would be hard to tell the difference between bombs and collapsing noises.
I really dont understand you guys, do you want me to say they were in on it? Alot of firemen said it was boom boom boom like someone would demo a building. Firemen did say it was like bombs going off.
I guess they couldnt prove it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXD3bAbZCow&feature=related

Unresponsive to the line of questioning.

Tell me specifically what they were told.

I want it verbatim.

I want it documented.

Your move.

[Tweeter]

Aggle-rithm, we were talking about the firemen, not me.
I didnt say they were told anything, i said they do as their told.
How the hell do i know what they were told to do.

[BenBurch]

Aggle-rithm, we were talking about the firemen, not me.
I didnt say they were told anything, i said they do as their told.
How the hell do i know what they were told to do.

Then you were just pulling that out of your backside to smear them?

[Blender Head]

Aggle-rithm, we were talking about the firemen, not me.
I didnt say they were told anything, i said they do as their told.
How the hell do i know what they were told to do.

This post could rip a hole in the Stundie space-time continuum.

[twinstead]

Yes. I think 'pulling it out of your backside' describes tweeter's contribution exactly.

[Foolmewunz]

Aggle-rithm, we were talking about the firemen, not me.
I didnt say they were told anything, i said they do as their told.
How the hell do i know what they were told to do.

Blender Head beat me to it, but this is just an awesome (not to mention awful) statement.

Can you actually follow your own logic (and I use that term in its loosest sense, here) in this exchange?

You do obviously know what they DID; you're offering arguments as to their complicity, e.g. that their actions or inactions aided in this great monolithic unexplained conspiracy to bring down the three buildings.

Ergo, if you know "what they did(or didn't) do", and state that they were just following orders, then by basic extrapolation, YOU KNOW WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO DO.

Well, that, or you're full of crap.

[Tweeter]

Ive proved gravy lost the bet, firemen thought it was like a demo and how the firemen were not in on it. What did you guys accomplish?

[Tweeter]

Blender Head beat me to it, but this is just an awesome (not to mention awful) statement.

Can you actually follow your own logic (and I use that term in its loosest sense, here) in this exchange?

You do obviously know what they DID; you're offering arguments as to their complicity, e.g. that their actions or inactions aided in this great monolithic unexplained conspiracy to bring down the three buildings.

Ergo, if you know "what they did(or didn't) do", and state that they were just following orders, then by basic extrapolation, YOU KNOW WHAT THEY WERE TOLD TO DO.

Well, that, or you're full of crap.

show me where i said any of that crap

[eromitlab]

Ive proved gravy lost the bet, firemen thought it was like a demo and how the firemen were not in on it. What did you guys accomplish?

Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

OK... At what point can we start using Tweeter-Dee and Tweeter-Dumb?

[Foolmewunz]

show me where i said any of that crap

Start from the beginning, son. Take a deep breath.....

Pencils up.... You may begin.

Section 1 - Yes or No answers ONLY.

Did you say that you believe the FDNY were just following orders?

You are allowed to scroll up. This is an open book exam.
You must complete Section 1 to proceed to the next set of questions.

ETA: Okay, maybe that was too difficult.
Here's a hint....
"Did as they were told" is the same as "just following orders" for anyone in a uniformed hierarchical organization. Does that help?

[Tweeter]

No

[Foolmewunz]

No


Buzz! Wrong! You should've waited for the hint. I knew "paraphrasing" was gonna throw you.

Try again.

[BenBurch]

Once again, you claim they were only following orders.

What orders?

[WildCat]

They just did as they were told, like a good public servant would.
:rolleyes:

[abenja1]

I dont believe they were in on it. They just did as they were told, like a good public servant would.

Tweeter you know how much firemen are paid in NYC? I'll tell you: not enough for 2500 of them to keep quiet about two buildings being supposedly filled with explosives to kill over 3000 people and allegedlly be the reason for us to go to war with Iraq. If you met a NYC firefighter I dare you to tell them they were in on 9/11.

[Tweeter]

OK... At what point can we start using Tweeter-Dee and Tweeter-Dumb?
Can a mod please remove this.

[Foolmewunz]

Can a mod please remove this.

Your only hope is that the whole thread gets removed to AAH, my friend. When you can see through the tears of your righteous indignation, please respond to the question.

[Tweeter]

Yall can keep twisting my words, but i still dont think the firemen were in on it.

[BenBurch]

Yall can keep twisting my words, but i still dont think the firemen were in on it.

Then explain why you said they were only following orders?

What orders?

Why did they choose to follow them if they were covering up the murder of their brothers?

Why have none come forward to tell us all about it?

No, Truther, you are making a SMARMY implication that they were complicit from one side of your cheetos-stained mouth, and denying it with the other.

You act JUST like George Bush.

[Foolmewunz]

Yall can keep twisting my words, but i still dont think the firemen were in on it.
We don't need to twist your words - you're doing an excellent (if transparent) job all by yourself.

What orders do you think they were following? I saw an FDNY guy having a cup of coffee in one news shot. Was that what you were referring to? That they were instructed to take a break now and then?

You're posting in a thread about troofers claiming the FDNY was complicit in the plot. So you don't think they were INTENTIONALLY complicit, but they were just doing as they were told?

Told what?

By whom?

Here's an idea. Retract your statement and admit that you were just trying to carry the troof torch into the discussion and parroted something that had seemed to work in the past. You might get out with a shred of dignity in tact.

[LashL]

Gravy loses the bet.


Then they made the decision to pull and we watched the building fall.


No. The twoofer claimed that the quote was "we" made the decision, and Gravy bet him that the quote was "they" made the decision. Gravy was right. And you remain, as always, wrong.

[I Ratant]

Considering the awesome number of FDNY and PDNY who died that day, any smearing of their efforts and sacrifices by these twoofer slime is nearly unconscionable!
Lower than the pond scum in the lowest sewers.

[Texas]

I dont believe they were in on it. They just did as they were told, like a good public servant would.

Those men ran into those buildings as others ran for their lives from it. Men like that do not just do as they are told. I don't expect a person like you to believe that since honor is not a concept you can understand.

[Blender Head]

No. The twoofer claimed that the quote was "we" made the decision, and Gravy bet him that the quote was "they" made the decision. Gravy was right. And you remain, as always, wrong.

It's wonderful watching a Truther unintentionally prove a debunker correct.

Tweeter should pay-up for that guy's six pack.

[Blender Head]

Great job, Blenderhead. I've got a post going up on SLC later this afternoon with this included.

Thanks, I'm honored!

(Though woo is up to his old straw-man arguments again!)

[jberryhill]

Gravy loses the bet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azdkPT4eDaE
Larry says theres been a great loss of life so "pull it".
Then they made the decision to pull and we watched the building fall.

"Then they made the decision to pull"

Yall can keep twisting my words, but i still dont think the firemen were in on it.

Who is twisting here?

You are using Silverstein saying "THEY made the decision to pull" to support your assertion that (a) the building was deliberately destroyed, and (b) the FDNY was not in on it. You tell us, then, who you think "THEY" is?

"Then they made the decision to pull"

Who made the decision to pull, in that sentence of Silverstein's which you quote?

"Then THEY made the decision to pull"

If you believe that "pull" has anything to do with a controlled demolition of WTC7, and you use the Larry Silverstein quote to support your belief, then you must believe the FDNY was in on it, because the very quote you are relying upon says:

THEY made the decision to pull.

Now, go back and watch the video, and see if you can figure out what the point of the bet was. Gravy quotes Silverstein as saying "THEY made the decision to pull" and he is told by a truther that Silverstein said "HE" made the decision.

[Blender Head]

Now, go back and watch the video, and see if you can figure out what the point of the bet was. Gravy quotes Silverstein as saying "THEY made the decision to pull" and he is told by a truther that Silverstein said "HE" made the decision.

The Truther said "We".

Other than that, good work.

[aggle-rithm]

Aggle-rithm, we were talking about the firemen, not me.
I didnt say they were told anything, i said they do as their told.
How the hell do i know what they were told to do.

Here's the rule of thumb if you don't want to look like a moron on the JREF forums:

If you don't know anything, then don't claim anything.

[aggle-rithm]

Yall can keep twisting my words,

Sorry, but it's necessary when translating from Tweeter-Speak into something coherent.

[Slayhamlet]

Gravy loses the bet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azdkPT4eDaE
Larry says theres been a great loss of life so "pull it".
Then they made the decision to pull and we watched the building fall.

Alex Jones: Larry Silverstein says he pulled the building, there were clearly [inaudible] going off.

Mark Roberts: No. Larry Silverstein says - he says they decided to pull - they, the New York Fire Department. Were they on it?

Truther: He said 'we'.

Mark Roberts: And they evacuated the area, and he said they decided to pull.

Truther: He said 'we'.

Mark Roberts: Do you want the quote?

Truther: I know the quote -

Mark Roberts: No you don't.

Truther: - I watched it like seven thousand times.

Mark Roberts: He said 'they' decided to pull the building and 'we' watched it come down.

Truther: [He said,] 'There was such a terrible loss of life that day' - 'There was such a terrible loss of life that day'.

Mark Roberts: And who made the decision? 'They'.

Truther: 'We'.

Mark Roberts: 'They'. He said, 'We watched'. I'll bet ya - I'll bet ya a six-pack of beer, my friend.

[Mark and Truther shake hands on the bet]

Mark Roberts: I'll prove it to you.

I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire. And I said, "You know, we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." Uh - and they made that decision to pull, and [then] we watched the building collapse.

Who won the bet, Tweeter?

[WildCat]

Run away Tweeter! Run fast, run far!

[Stupid]

...I didnt say they were told anything, i said they do as their told.
...


:jaw-dropp

(with corrected *spelling):

In order to "do as *they're told"...I'm pretty sure they have to be told something,....um....to do.

My version:
"I didn't hear anything, I just know what I heard."

But with some imagination, I think I know what Tweeter was trying to say:
That the NYFD wasn't told WHY they were told what to do.
Tweet, be more detailed when you post, and you won't find yourself under attack about 'what you meant to say' .
=========
Also, why would Silverstein admit to demoing the building in a recorded interview ?
Was he a whistle-blower...on himself ??? :boggled:

=S=

[Blender Head]

Is Tweeter even reading this thread anymore?

[Foolmewunz]

Is Tweeter even reading this thread anymore?

I think there's an old southern expression that, "Sometimes running like a skeared jackrabbit is the better part of valor."

Either that, or The Truth called and said, "We're out there." He's gone to meet 'em.

[uk_dave]

Either that, or The Truth called and said, "We're out there." He's gone to meet 'em.

I hope he remembered to take his ball with him.

[cyclonic]

"Truther: - I watched it like seven thousand times".
and he still couldn't get it right!

I wonder what he was doing while watching it...............

[Alt+F4]

They follow orders, plain and simple.

Please provide evidence that ANY member of the FDNY follow any and all orders without question.

[CHF]

Watching twoofers reconcile controlled demolitions with FDNY reports is simply hilarious.

First Swing Dangler bails after accusing the FDNY of ordering WTC7s CD and now tweeter can't think of which orders he thinks the FDNY were following.

[aggle-rithm]

I think Tweeter can no longer hear us because the hole he's digging is too deep.

Perhaps if he digs faster...?

[aggle-rithm]

Also, why would Silverstein admit to demoing the building in a recorded interview ?
Was he a whistle-blower...on himself ??? :boggled:



The only way this could POSSIBLY make sense (along with the verbal confusion implied by "terrible loss of life; let's blow something up") is if Silverstein were suffering from a major neurological episode, like a cerebral hemmorage or a stroke.

What a brave fellow! He's somehow able to continue running a multi-billion dollar empire with his handicap!

[BenBurch]

The only way this could POSSIBLY make sense (along with the verbal confusion implied by "terrible loss of life; let's blow something up") is if Silverstein were suffering from a major neurological episode, like a cerebral hemmorage or a stroke.

What a brave fellow! He's somehow able to continue running a multi-billion dollar empire with his handicap!

You know, given the vile stuff people say about him, maybe I should send him my resume. He could do worse than to pay me to be his professional debunker...

[Magenta]

While I think most truthers are too inept and pathetic to warrant more than mockery, this business with the firefighters is where I feel disgust and loathing for the morons who say, or just as bad, try to weasel out of saying, that the firefighters were somehow complicit. It's the ugly underbelly of the wilful ignorance, arrogance and paranoia of 9/11 CTists.

I know the liars have hounded Silverstein, but I wonder if that obnoxious buffoon Jones, or for that matter any of the snivelling, mealy-mouthed tossers who post here, have ever had the courage to confront an FDNY officer with their lies and delusions.

[aggle-rithm]

I know the liars have hounded Silverstein, but I wonder if that obnoxious buffoon Jones, or for that matter any of the snivelling, mealy-mouthed tossers who post here, have ever had the courage to confront an FDNY officer with their lies and delusions.

Good point. Silverstein, as a public figure, has to keep his cool when he is being attacked in public. A firefighter might just re-enact the Buzz Aldrin incident, this time in an entirely different weight class with major physical injuries resulting.

[MarkyX]

Good point. Silverstein, as a public figure, has to keep his cool when he is being attacked in public. A firefighter might just re-enact the Buzz Aldrin incident, this time in an entirely different weight class with major physical injuries resulting.

And this is a problem because...?

[aggle-rithm]

And this is a problem because...?

Most truthers don't have health insurance, so the taxpayers will be left picking up the tab.

ETA: But as a taxpayer, I'm willing to make the sacrifice.

[VespaGuy]

And once again the hypocrisy of the Truth Movement rears its head. This thread is a shining example of what the movement is really about. It's not about truth, its about spouting the same rhetoric over and over, and then fleeing the scene when you are proven wrong. The saddest part of all of this is that it is a game for them.

If Tweeter, and others like him, were sincerely seeking the truth about 9/11, they would acknowledge their mistakes. Instead, Tweeter will pop up in another thread and still claim that the firefighters just do what they're told, and that Gravy lost his bet.

Of course, Tweeter has outright lied in this forum before, so his actions no longer surprise me.

[nicepants]

I think there's an old southern expression that, "Sometimes running like a skeared jackrabbit is the better part of valor."

Either that, or The Truth called and said, "We're out there." He's gone to meet 'em.

Couldn't resist...

Bravely Tweeter ran away,
Bravely ran away, away.

When logic reared its ugly head,
he bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Tweeter turned about
And gallantly, he chickened out.

Bravely taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat,
Bravest of the brave, Sir Tweeter.

[Magenta]

Good point. Silverstein, as a public figure, has to keep his cool when he is being attacked in public. A firefighter might just re-enact the Buzz Aldrin incident, this time in an entirely different weight class with major physical injuries resulting.


I'm picturing a bunch of pissed-off firefighters, some fire hoses and a rabble of truthers…

[I Ratant]

And after the ME looks at the scattered remains, declares "suicide" as the cause.