What to do about the truth movement?

[Confuseling]

Just curious as to the general spread of opinion about this. I'll let you be the judge of which is the planet x option. ;)

[The Silver Shadow]

Let it be a celebrity deathmatch of no planers vs. planers vs. "teh joos did it" camp...

ETA: I didn't see the poll before, but my comment still stands!

[EvilBiker]

I voted option 1, even though it's a thankless, mind-numbing, soul-destroying, masochistic option.

You have to turn over the turds to expose the maggots beneath.

[ronpaulisright]

Doesn't the truth movement want another investigation on 9/11? What's wrong with that?

[Brainache]

Doesn't the truth movement want another investigation on 9/11? What's wrong with that?

Because there has already been an investigation?

Because if there was a new investigation the TM would say it was a cover-up unless it agreed with their infantile inside job fantasy?

[Cobalt]

Because there has already been an investigation?

Because if there was a new investigation the TM would say it was a cover-up unless it agreed with their infantile inside job fantasy?

Y'know, I wonder, operating under the premise that it WAS an inside job, if the government admitted it, what would the truth movement do? Hop up and down saying "we told you so;" or would they say "That's what you want us to believe, the Bush administration isn't collectively smart enough to tie a shoe, let alone pull this off."

[Minadin]

Doesn't the truth movement want another investigation on 9/11? What's wrong with that?

It's a massive waste of time and money. I thought you Ronulans were against excessive government spending, at least in principal. If not the government, who would fund it? Would the Truth Movement even be happy with a second government explaination if it came at no taxpayer expense? Who would carry it out?

[zorro99]

In this part of the world (the middle East), conspiracy theories are taken very seriously. Look at all the hoopla over Princess Diana's death from the Egyptian father of Dodi. Also you've got the Iranian President speculating wildly about how the towers fell and blaming it all on Israel. In Saudi they still believe in the Protocols.

That's when it all stops being a source of humour and the butt of jokes. When people act on their beliefs, it's no longer funny.

So yes, it should be confronted.

[ronpaulisright]

The bush admin. knew there was talk of an attack. Where was the good, no conspiracy CFR? The bush administration could have stopped it but didn't. That's scary enough! Then you have operation Northwoods. Again These things are scary enough. Just the THOUGHT of them spitballing this is terrible. Killing innocent civilians for corporate/special interests.

[BenBurch]

Put him in the longboat till he’s sober,
Put him in the longboat till he’s sober,
Put him in the longboat till he’s sober,
Earl-y in the morning?

[Tweeter]

Cant we all just get along?
I voted it doesnt really matter either way.

[MarkCorrigan]

Put him in the longboat till he’s sober,
Put him in the longboat till he’s sober,
Put him in the longboat till he’s sober,
Earl-y in the morning?
Heave-ho and up she rises,
Heave-ho and up she rises,
Heave-ho and up she rises,
Earl-y in the morning

Stick him in a bag and beat him senseless,
Stick him in a bag and beat him senseless,
Stick him in a bag and beat him senseless,
Earl-y in the morning

Heave-ho and up she rises,
Heave-ho and up she rises,
Heave-ho and up she rises,
Earl-y in the morning

Put him in the brig and make him drink it,
Put him in the brig and make him drink it,
Put him in the brig and make him drink it,
Earl-y in the morning

Heave-ho and up she rises,
Heave-ho and up she rises,
Heave-ho and up she rises,
Earl-y in the morning

Put him in bed with the captain's daughter,
Put him in bed with the captain's daughter,
Put him in bed with the captain's daughter,
Earl-y in the morning

Heave-ho and up she rises,
Heave-ho and up she rises,
Heave-ho and up she rises,
Earl-y in the morning

Keelhaul the man until he's sober,
Keelhaul the man until he's sober,
Keelhaul the man until he's sober,
Earl-y in the morning

That's all I can be bothered with.

ETA: I put Ignore, as arguing is useless.

[deep]

Just curious as to the general spread of opinion about this. I'll let you be the judge of which is the planet x option. ;)


You've been a member here for a while, and you were "just curious" as to the general opinion about this? Do you actually read the messages in this sub-forum?

Or is this just another one of those "let's justify what we do" messages?

[DGM]

You've been a member here for a while, and you were "just curious" as to the general opinion about this? Do you actually read the messages in this sub-forum?

Or is this just another one of those "let's justify what we do" messages?
Opinions change over time. A year ago I would have picked option one (The truth movement should be confronted to prevent the spread of misinformation) now I think option 5 (The truth movement ought to be ignored, arguing perpetuates it ) is more appropriate. The "truth" movement now is just seeking any recognition because it's being ignored and mocked by the general population.

[DC]

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -
Mahatma Gandhi

[Horatius]

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. But you actually have to get off you ass and do something for that to work." -
What Mahatma Gandhi would have said if he'd ever met the Twoofers.

[DGM]

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. But you actually have to get off you ass and do something for that to work." -
What Mahatma Gandhi would have said if he'd ever met the Twoofers.
The issue here is the "truthers" were fought first then ridiculed and ignored. The only outcome from that is they lose!

[fuelair]

You left out "slap them until the silliness all drains out!!".

[MarkyX]

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -
Mahatma Gandhi

Did this involve assaulting people in wheelchairs?

[Horatius]

The issue here is the "truthers" were fought first then ridiculed and ignored. The only outcome from that is they lose!



I thought about going that way, but then I thought, "Yeah, but, Gandhi actually had millions of followers who were willing to actually put themselves at risk to accomplish their goals. What have these guys got, the "Don't taze me bro!" guy?


Hmph.

[DC]

Did this involve assaulting people in wheelchairs?

did i ever atack someone in a wheelchair?
and do you have details about the incident? or did you jump on a conclusion?

[chillzero]

Can we please try very hard not to allow ourselves to get dragged off on yet another derail?

[deep]

The "truth" movement now is just seeking any recognition because it's being ignored and mocked by the general population.


Perhaps you could cite some poll results to backup your claim? Because most, if not all, of the polls I've seen directly contradict that statement.

Not to mention the steady stream of architects, engineers, scientists, politicians, and even various celebrities who are coming forward and voicing their support.

The number of supporters is growing, with no sign of slowing down.

[Confuseling]

You've been a member here for a while, and you were "just curious" as to the general opinion about this? Do you actually read the messages in this sub-forum?

Or is this just another one of those "let's justify what we do" messages?

Did you see me claim this would be a representative sample? Principally I was curious what people would pick between the first two options, because many simply don't believe there are any fence-sitters left - but I know there are some people who swing through who believe that arguing only perpetuates it, and wondered what the strength of that would be too.

[aggle-rithm]

The bush admin. knew there was talk of an attack.

Yes, but there's also talk of lots of things that don't happen. How do you tell the difference ahead of time?

Where was the good, no conspiracy CFR? The bush administration could have stopped it but didn't.

...according to you.


That's scary enough! Then you have operation Northwoods.


...which never happened.


Again These things are scary enough. Just the THOUGHT of them spitballing this is terrible. Killing innocent civilians for corporate/special interests.

Good thing it never happened.

Perhaps you shouldn't worry so much about things that MIGHT have happened in the past, but didn't?

[aggle-rithm]

Not to mention the steady stream of architects, engineers, scientists, politicians, and even various celebrities who are coming forward and voicing their support.


The voices of these people might hold some sway among truthers, but among their peers they are considered crackpots.

[Almo]

It's a massive waste of time and money. I thought you Ronulans were against excessive government spending, at least in principal. If not the government, who would fund it? Would the Truth Movement even be happy with a second government explaination if it came at no taxpayer expense? Who would carry it out?

Bold mine. Was that an intentional misspelling to generate a joke? :)

[Almo]

Perhaps you could cite some poll results to backup your claim? Because most, if not all, of the polls I've seen directly contradict that statement.

Not to mention the steady stream of architects, engineers, scientists, politicians, and even various celebrities who are coming forward and voicing their support.

The number of supporters is growing, with no sign of slowing down.

Perhaps you could cite some poll results to backup your claim?

[DGM]

Perhaps you could cite some poll results to backup your claim? Because most, if not all, of the polls I've seen directly contradict that statement.

Not to mention the steady stream of architects, engineers, scientists, politicians, and even various celebrities who are coming forward and voicing their support.

The number of supporters is growing, with no sign of slowing down.
I don't really believe in polls. What I do know is "truther" web traffic is down and I never see any signs of a "truth" movement in my area. I don't live in the "sticks" I live 10 minutes outside of Boston. I've never met a "truther", once I went to where they were going to have a "rally" and I couldn't find them. The only numbers they show at "rallies is when the latch on to some other cause.

Case in point; The Ron Paul rally in Boston that the "truthers" claimed to be part of, I was there and did not see a single "truther" (no signs or anything) among hundreds of Ron Paul supporters. Then I read the Boston "truth" site telling me about the big success for 9/11 truth.

Bottom line is as activist you guys really suck. Your campaign is totally ineffective. If your "movement" was around during the civil rights movement days I have no doubt that slavery would have come back.

[Drudgewire]

Perhaps you could cite some poll results to backup your claim?

And let's try to avoid internet polls, since your completely honest movement has a tendency to suggest flooding any poll that shows up online in order to inflate your numbers. :rolleyes:

[Confuseling]

And let's try to avoid internet polls, since your completely honest movement has a tendency to suggest flooding any poll that shows up online in order to inflate your numbers. :rolleyes:

I'm waiting for the deluge myself. It's a calculated trick to lure them into the very heart of the JREF beast. :p

ETA: I went for 'for the sake of its adherents.' I'm surprised so few people have; maybe sympathy for lost souls declines with increased exposure? :)

[Stellafane]

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -
Mahatma Gandhi


"First you get mad at them, then you laugh at them, then you ignore them, then you forget they ever even existed."

-- Stellafane, describing truthers

[Pato2747]

The bush admin. knew there was talk of an attack. Where was the good, no conspiracy CFR? The bush administration could have stopped it but didn't. That's scary enough! Then you have operation Northwoods. Again These things are scary enough. Just the THOUGHT of them spitballing this is terrible. Killing innocent civilians for corporate/special interests.

Evidence pl0x kthxbai.

[Minadin]

I'm waiting for the deluge myself. It's a calculated trick to lure them into the very heart of the JREF beast. :p

ETA: I went for 'for the sake of its adherents.' I'm surprised so few people have; maybe sympathy for lost souls declines with increased exposure? :)

If you would like a great example of why so many of us feel that the self-proclaimed "truthers" are beyond our assistance, please check out the "AE911Truth Watch" thread, and specifically how several of us spend several pages (over the course of many days) getting a single conspiracy theorist to admit, finally, that he is wrong, only to have him renew his claims a couple of days (about half a page) later.

I still feel that it's necessary to offer verifiable, rational explanations for the 'truther' crap so that when people see some of their absurd fantasies posted on another site, they can think, 'that's not right' and google it, and maybe end up here.

[alex04]

where's the 'Buzz Aldrin' option? :boggled: :D

[ronpaulisright]

So since I've never been involved on either side, I'd like to know from you all knowing anti-truther folk, How did the building that was never hit by a plane crumble to the ground?

Also, let it be known that pissed off middle easterners flew buildings into those towers. There you got me on the record saying that:)

[Dave Rogers]

So since I've never been involved on either side, I'd like to know from you all knowing anti-truther folk, How did the building that was never hit by a plane crumble to the ground?

Is it my turn to answer this one, guys? I don't want to mess up the rota.

Which building that was never hit by a plane do you mean? Do you mean WTC3, which was flattened by debris from the Twin Towers, and is currently being discussed in another thread? WTC4 or 6, huge holes battered into them by falling debris from WTC2 and subsequently demolished? WTC5, on fire for hours resulting in a huge area internally collapsing, because for some unknown reason a large office fire is in fact able to cause steel columns to fail? Or if all these examples of buildings being destroyed by either fire or impact damage are not in any way suspicious, then how about WTC7, which was hit by debris from WTC1, had the entire southern face of the building cut in half, then burned for seven hours without the FDNY being able to do anything about it because the water main had been severed by the WTC1 collapse? For some reason, if buildings can be destroyed by fire or impact damage, there's nothing odd about it, but when one's destroyed by both, that's suspicious.

Or maybe you mean St. Nicholas's Church (Greek Orthodox). Clearly, the Turks were behind that one.

Also, let it be known that pissed off middle easterners flew buildings into those towers. There you got me on the record saying that:)

And you nearly got it right. They flew planes into the towers. Arguably, and indirectly, they did fly buildings into the rest; it was flying pieces of buildings that did the damage.

Dave

[timhau]

Why isn't 'Point at it and laugh' an option?

[uk_dave]

Why isn't 'Point at it and laugh' an option?
It goes without saying.

[parky76]

cant we ship them all to Zanzibar?

[EvilBiker]

cant we ship them all to Zanzibar?

No!

I want to go on holiday there in the near future, and it's a real mission getting mindless drivel out of clothes.

[DGM]

cant we ship them all to Zanzibar?
We could sponsor a rally for them (get them all to go) in western Pakistan. That should take care of them.

[timhau]

cant we ship them all to Zanzibar?

Why do you hate Zanzibarians so?

[Confuseling]

cant we ship them all to Zanzibar?

How about Crete?

That would presumably make them Cretins. Or Cretians, in which case whenever they leave they become ex-Cretians.



[my apologies to any Cretans out there; I mean you no harm, but I could not resist. :)]

[GreNME]

I voted that it doesn't matter either way.

Even if, tomorrow morning, somehow incontrovertible evidence popped up displaying every truther group to be a fraud, there are a certain subset of individuals for whom the necessity to gravitate toward paranoid outlooks takes precedence. With the increase in communication over the internet and the unrest in the US and other nations since 9/11, these paranoid messages have become more convincing for more people. You're not going to change that.

On the other hand, I fully support pointing out the errors in wild and unrealistic claims made, not only by truthers or UFOlogists or the like, but by politicians or businesspeople or by those who are more personally known to you. It doesn't always have to be an argument, either, though sometimes it may come to that. I feel that we all need to be challenged more often on our preconcieved notions, even if we don't believe we have preconcieved notions. It keeps us intellectually fit.

[Clippy]

cant we ship them all to Zanzibar?

Shipping all members of a certain group to an island? What a novel idea. Oh wait, someone else thought of that a while back...

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I normally have a reasonable to middling tolerance level for idiots and their stupid BS, and I think of myself as a generally easy-going person, but I think not an inch should ever be given to truthers.

Most conspiracy theories are stupid and silly but not offensive. They are offensive, their methods are offensive and the potential consequences of their actions are much more harmful than, say, the potential consequences of the moon landing conspiracy theorists.

They need to be confronted at every turn they take.

[Mangoose]

What to do about the movement?

Flush the danged toilet. It's starting to smell.

[aggle-rithm]

Q: What's the difference between the truth movement and a bowel movement?

A: One is odiferous and often frustrating, the other is usually confined to the restroom.