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View Full Version : Dylan Avery admits to making errors in Loose Change: Final Cut 08/05/08


Undesired Walrus
13th May 2008, 07:09 AM
I've been talking for a few days with a man who came across my video about Ramzi Bin Al-Shibh on google video a while after being directed to 'Loose Change' for the first time. I've got a feeling he is a international relations student or something similar, as he was reading books like 'Perfect soldiers' and 'Masterminds of Terror' he said, 'for [his] course'. He wanted to know if I had access to the documentary I took the clip from, and I provided him with additional information about the CTers and their 'arguments'.

Here is his correspondence with Dylan, with some of my information rearing its head at times.

Dear Dylan, I was directed to your film by my nephew the other day.

I do not agree with the premise put forward in Loose Change: Final Cut. It seems quite self-evident, from all we know that 19 Islamists carried out such destruction.

That said, I thought I would point you to a rather glaring error you impose upon your film with regards to Saeed Al-Ghamdi and your unquestioned presumption that he was a 'fighter pilot'. The man was very young, only 21.

You have confused him with a with a Saudi pilot who was incorrectly shown to be the hijacker, despite not being in America for the time Al-Ghamdi was leaving a paper trail.

I recommend the book 'Perfect Soldiers' for an exhaustive investigation into the hijackers.

You are clearly very talented Dylan, and I wish you luck in producing an insightful career for yourself. However, I'd suggest you tone back on the more ridiculous and unproven claims you made in this film.

Yours,
XXX

XXX,
Besides our error with Al-Ghamdi, what is ridiculous? Speaking of wire transfers, what are your thoughts on the $100,000 one between Atta and the ISI?

Dylan,

I was taken back by that particular claim in your film, so I was somewhat disappointed you failed to provide any evidence for this wire transfer ever occuring. This transfer has never been seen, whilst Ramzi Bin Al-Shibh's frequent wire transfers to Atta are very visible indeed. Given that there is no evidence for such an enormous amount of money ever being spent (Whilst we have evidence of Jarrah buying cockpit posters, GPS systems etc), it seems somewhat ridiculous.

If you are asking for what is ridiculous besides that error, I'd declare that your failure to include the vast amounts of confessions from Al Qeada is quite foolish in a film about such a topic.


XXX

No evidence? The FBI and the Wall Street Journal confirmed it, and so did the Times of India. So did Joseph Biden. That's not enough for you? Or are you choosing simply to ignore it?
I'd like to point out that your "vast amounts of confessions from Al Qaeda" have almost always been drawn from the United States Government's translations. Numerous Arabic translators have the called bin Laden's 2001 "confession" tape severely mis-translated by the Justice Department.

Dear Dylan,

Are you actually saying Joe Biden confirmed that 100,000 dollars had been sent over from the ISI? Fascinating stuff if true, but can he reproduce this document? Can the FBI? The Wall Street Journal did not confirm the story, and we both know that. It reproduced the article, which is not confirming it.The FBI reported it themselves? Again, fascinating stuff if true, but I suspect you may perhaps be stretching the truth somewhat.

Dylan, Yosri Fouda heard Ramzi Bin-Al Shibh confessing to the attacks at the same time as KSM confessed the attacks. Al-Jazeera is not a pro-American channel by any stretch of the imagination and would report any inaccuracies if it saw them. At the same time, Ayman Al-Zawahiri claims responsibility infront of his bookcase every other month, and every year we get a new documentary from Al-Qeada showing Bin Laden and members of the Hamburg cell. We also get a new suicide videos from the hijackers once every september.

The translations of most of Al-Qeada's videos (And there are streams of the propaganda) are mostly done in a small shop in Birmingham, UK. It is run by a man who gets untranslated copies of the videos dropped off by various supporters, and then goes through and puts subtitles on them all. I'm sure this man would waste no time in exposing the actual words of the videos participants. That the chain of custody has been traced back to the producer of the videos in Western Pakistan is a positive sign that they have been traced back to Al Qeada.


XXX

No replies from Dylan after that last email.(Last paragraph mostly my information).

But most of all, I think the bolded section above is most revealing and worrying.

Not content with just leaving the errors in Loose Change:2E, he must leave errors in a film that he is trying to spread globally, calls watertight, makes money from, and promises the family members that this will reveal the truth about what actually happened to their loved ones.

Can I declare that this is a foul attitude?

DC
13th May 2008, 07:17 AM
oh no :(

now there will be a Loose Change : Final Cut 2nd Edition.

great

JamesB
13th May 2008, 07:24 AM
No evidence? The FBI and the Wall Street Journal confirmed it, and so did the Times of India.

This still cracks me up. The Wall Street Journal didn't "confirm" it, they merely linked to the original story in their blog. The FBI only confirmed it in the sense that it was mentioned in the story. You have to love their circular logic. Avery is in no danger of getting into the Columbia School of Journalism any time soon.

chillzero
17th May 2008, 07:11 AM
Apologies for the delay in getting this disucssion started, but it was under moderator review. We are now happy to return it to the forum.

Alt+F4
17th May 2008, 07:33 AM
The FBI and the Wall Street Journal confirmed it, and so did the Times of India. So did Joseph Biden. That's not enough for you? Or are you choosing simply to ignore it? I'd like to point out that your "vast amounts of confessions from Al Qaeda" have almost always been drawn from the United States Government's translations. Numerous Arabic translators have the called bin Laden's 2001 "confession" tape severely mis-translated by the Justice Department.

Now that's funny. In the same paragraph he uses the government to back up this story then accuses the government of incompetence.

Alt+F4
17th May 2008, 07:35 AM
This still cracks me up. The Wall Street Journal didn't "confirm" it, they merely linked to the original story in their blog. The FBI only confirmed it in the sense that it was mentioned in the story. You have to love their circular logic. Avery is in no danger of getting into the Columbia School of Journalism any time soon.

Circular logic? You're being too kind James, call it what is - lying.

defaultdotxbe
17th May 2008, 07:45 AM
Circular logic? You're being too kind James, call it what is - lying.
actually in cases such as this i fully believe the average truther (and yes, even leaders like dylan) has no clue what constitutes independent confirmation, it stems directly form a lack of critical thinking skills, which arguably is responsible for them being truthers in the first place

FM21.105
17th May 2008, 08:22 AM
Dylan Avery admits to making errors in LC:FC

Well, that didn't take long...

MikeW
17th May 2008, 09:05 AM
Joseph Biden confirmed the transfer? Oh, he must mean this:

We asked him the question - what was he doing with the head of the Pakistani ISI General Mahmoud Ahmad," said Rudkowski.

"He told me - he admitted that he met with him - he met with the head of the Pakistani ISI - he said I told them not to do it, I told them not to wire the money - I told them to stop supporting the Taliban, which shows he had foreknowledge of them supporting him."

"I told him - sir, he funded the hijackers, you did business with him, you let him go - he's free," said Rudkowski, to which Biden responded, "Get a life kid," after which Rudkowski was pushed away by Biden's security staff.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/050607bidenadmits.htm

Unfortunately, this is utter garbage. He doesn't say "I told them not to do it", he doesn't say "I told them not to wire the money". Even a We Are Change supporter realised that the actual quote was a bit less interesting:

Biden actually said Quote:
" I met with Him to deliver a message, that if he didn't, didn't stop supporting the Taliban we would take him out. "

Accuracy in this fight is paramount, I was expecting to see Biden say he told him not to wire the money, but that was not what he said...
http://forum.wearechange.org/YaBB.pl?num=1181046794/9

So that's about the usual standards of truther accuracy, then.

BenBurch
17th May 2008, 09:08 AM
Apologies for the delay in getting this disucssion started, but it was under moderator review. We are now happy to return it to the forum.

Because it reproduced correspondence? Just curious.

The Doc
17th May 2008, 09:21 AM
Props to Dylan to owning up for 0.1% of his errors. Quite a way to go yet though.

Undesired Walrus
17th May 2008, 09:30 AM
So how long until the recut?

Brainster
17th May 2008, 09:45 AM
According to Do-Over's blog, it's on the way (http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2008/03/whats-goin-on.html):

The fine folks down at SMT Studios have been spending their free time and energy remixing the movie into Dolby 5.1 Surround. In the meantime, we've made some minor cuts here and there to speed up the film a bit, corrected the embarrassing spelling mistake in the credits, and fixed a few other goofs here and there. We're hoping to have it done and mastered as soon as possible.

boloboffin
17th May 2008, 10:06 AM
I'm sorry, but I read that statement of "error" as Dylan being sarcastic. In the same email, he says "speaking of the wire transfers," but if that's the complete original email, no one had mentioned wire transfers at all.

Perhaps you're being sarcastic as well, though. A more appropriate target couldn't be found.

Bobert
17th May 2008, 02:32 PM
5.1?!?!?!??!?!?!?!
I am buying it now FOR SURE!!!!!!111!!!!111!!!!!

BenBurch
17th May 2008, 02:56 PM
Hilarious thing is its all on bittorrent and gnutella. Hard to sell something that is being given away.

Brainache
17th May 2008, 03:05 PM
Hilarious thing is its all on bittorrent and gnutella. Hard to sell something that is being given away.

Yeah, but the re-cut is gonna be in SURROUND SOUND!!! which means you can sit in your living room and be totally immersed in Dylan's voice-over!!

And if that doesn't make you want to eat your own head, I don't know what will...

defaultdotxbe
17th May 2008, 03:13 PM
Yeah, but the re-cut is gonna be in SURROUND SOUND!!! which means you can sit in your living room and be totally immersed in Dylan's voice-over!!

And if that doesn't make you want to eat your own head, I don't know what will...
so wait, number of audio channels ISNT directly proportional to factual accuracy?

NickUK
17th May 2008, 03:17 PM
I thought he was busy in a town that will have to remain nameless at this point making a film that will have to remain nameless at this point for a major film company who will have to remain nameless at this point?

BenBurch
17th May 2008, 03:34 PM
I thought he was busy in a town that will have to remain nameless at this point making a film that will have to remain nameless at this point for a major film company who will have to remain nameless at this point?

Chatsworth and Extreme Associates* would be my guess...

Poor Dylan, stuck in the editing suite.

Never "getting any."


* And yes XA is defunct after the criminal case (which they "won")... Didn't want to sully any existing company.

NickUK
17th May 2008, 03:41 PM
Loose Change : The We're Absolutely Certain It's Right This Time, OK? I Mean, We Got That Woman Who's Friends With The Movie Guy To Check It This Time And She Said It Was Perfect, Everything Was Spelt Right, Even The Hard Words That I Normally Get Wrong And Stuff, So I Swear To Our Lord Jeebus That This Is Positively The Last Time We Re-Re-Re-Re-Re-Re-Re-Re-Release It, OK? Promise, Cross My Heart Swear To Die In A Pit Full Of Poisonous Snakes Cut.

1337m4n
17th May 2008, 03:47 PM
The Truth: Version 5.0

NickUK
17th May 2008, 03:50 PM
The Truth: Version 5.0

That might fit better on the DVD cover, I'll grant you.

parky76
17th May 2008, 04:33 PM
wait...Dylan left out facts from his final cut? what was his motive? what was he trying to hide? who is he working for? what is his true agenda? is he a dual citizen?

=)