CIT/Air America Debate Challenge

[pomeroo]

Rob Balsamo phoned me with an offer for rationalists critical of CIT's speculations regarding the crash of Flight 77. He, Craig Ranke, and Aldo Marquis will be guests on an Air America call-in show hosted by Richard Green on Thursday, May 15, at 9 P.M. EST. They want opponents.

Obviously, Reheat, Anti-Sophist, Apathoid, Gravy, and Beachnut would be ideal. He can be contacted at:

pilotsfortruth@yahoo.com

[DGM]

I think I would like to see them fix their math errors and complete the flight path challenge before giving these clowns any attention.

[pomeroo]

I think I would like to see them fix their math errors and complete the flight path challenge before giving these clowns any attention.


Air America is already giving them attention. We need qualified people to make that point and other even more crushing ones on the air.

[DGM]

Air America is already giving them attention. We need qualified people to make that point and other even more crushing ones on the air.
Point taken, But I don't think anyone is taken them seriously and they are very good at digging their own holes. All we really need is a couple of call in tough questions and they'll self destruct.

[beachnut]

Air America is already giving them attention. We need qualified people to make that point and other even more crushing ones on the air.
Failures on a failed broadcasting system. A perfect match. Are they on the web?

[nicepants]

Point taken, But I don't think anyone is taken them seriously and they are very good at digging their own holes. All we really need is a couple of call in tough questions and they'll self destruct.

Agreed. There is a long list of questions that CIT can't answer. It will certainly be interesting to hear their theories fall apart on the air in real-time, where they don't have the help of the LCF moderators to silence those asking questions.

The Audio Stundies should be aplenty :)

[Reheat]

Technical subjects like this don't lend themselves well to live debate. Essentially, there really is no debate. It's blind faith in manipulated witness testimony versus proven aerodynamics.

I am certainly not afraid of the twits, but I don't want to give them any attention they don't deserve.

Any details on how this would work would be appreciated.

[pomeroo]

I just received this press release from Rob Balsamo. It appears as though I was mistaken in assuming that Marquis would be among the twoofers.

Press Release - For Immediate Release

Air America Radio: What Happened At The Pentagon?

05/13/08 - We hope you'll join us regarding the issues surrounding the Pentagon Attack this Thursday, May 15, 2008 at 9pm Eastern on Air America Radio with your host Richard Greene, Co-Produced by Rob Balsamo, Co-Founder, Pilots For 9/11 Truth. The show will be streaming on the internet at http://airamerica.com/clout (http://airamerica.com/clout)

Guest will be:
Craig Ranke from Citizen Investigation Team http://thepentacon.com (http://thepentacon.com/)
Rob Balsamo, Co-Founder, Pilots For 9/11 Truth http://pilotsfor911truth.org (http://pilotsfor911truth.org/)
Kevin Barret http://www.mujca.com/ (http://www.mujca.com/)
Individuals supporting the govt story - TBA

We have contacted others to represent the government story including James Meigs and David Coburn of Popular Mechnics. Their Secretary has advised us that Meigs and Coburn are no longer accepting any offers to discuss topics on 9/11 Others are in the process of gathering possible representatives. Please email us at pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org if you would be interested in representing the goverment position regarding the events at the Pentagon.

Topics of Dicussion will include (but not limited to) -

Hani Hanjour
Flight Data Recorder
Witnesses - published and non-published
Other issues surrounding the Pentagon

We hope to see you there!

Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org

[pomeroo]

Technical subjects like this don't lend themselves well to live debate. Essentially, there really is no debate. It's blind faith in manipulated witness testimony versus proven aerodynamics.

I am certainly not afraid of the twits, but I don't want to give them any attention they don't deserve.

Any details on how this would work would be appreciated.


Reheat, Balsamo asked that I refrain from posting his telephone number. You should contact him at the e-mail address I provided or send me a PM.

[DGM]

Why is it a press release if no press agency would give them the time of day? Delusions of grandeur?

[pomeroo]

I must stress my feeling that it is important that the falsehoods and errors the CIT will peddle on this show must be countered with facts and evidence.

[dudalb]

It's sad that Air America has to stoop to promoting crackpot theories to get an audience.
They have moved beyond just having the truthers on..which quite a few talk show hosts across the political spectrum have done...to borderline out and out promotion of the Truth movement.

[Bobert]

WOW 2 day notice according to the "press release".
10 bucks says that if no one is able to attend this due to short notice that the CIT will use this and say "ha ha ha SEE the skeptics are afraid!".

[theauthor]

On the last air america debate on 911, Kevin Barrett gleefully made the point that they couldnt find any architects or engineers etc to represent the official story. Looks like JREF are going to prove him right again.

[Mr. Skinny]

On the last air america debate on 911, Kevin Barrett gleefully made the point that they couldnt find any architects or engineers etc to represent the official story. Looks like JREF are going to prove him right again.
I find it interesting that you think the JREF conspiracy theory sub-forum somehow represents the entire community of architects and engineers interested in debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Did James Randi hang out a shingle while I was away?

I'm, of course, glad to be a small part of a forum that commands your respect, but I didn't know we'd become the sole debunking source on the entire internet!

[BenBurch]

I find it interesting that you think the JREF conspiracy theory sub-forum somehow represents the entire community of architects and engineers interested in debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Did James Randi hang out a shingle while I was away?

I'm, of course, glad to be a small part of a forum that commands your respect, but I didn't know we'd become the sole debunking source on the entire internet!

Personally, I debunk this stuff because I firmly believe that real stupidity needs to be humiliated in public.

But I do it because I want to not because I think I have some mission.

[Bobert]

LOL yup they are complaining and whining already
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/273663/1/#new

[bje]

I just received this press release from Rob Balsamo. It appears as though I was mistaken in assuming that Marquis would be among the twoofers.Press Release - For Immediate Release

Air America Radio: What Happened At The Pentagon?

05/13/08 - We hope you'll join us regarding the issues surrounding the Pentagon Attack this Thursday, May 15, 2008 at 9pm Eastern on Air America Radio with your host Richard Greene, Co-Produced by Rob Balsamo, Co-Founder, Pilots For 9/11 Truth. The show will be streaming on the internet at http://airamerica.com/clout (http://airamerica.com/clout)

Guest will be:
Craig Ranke from Citizen Investigation Team http://thepentacon.com (http://thepentacon.com/)
Rob Balsamo, Co-Founder, Pilots For 9/11 Truth http://pilotsfor911truth.org (http://pilotsfor911truth.org/)
Kevin Barret http://www.mujca.com/ (http://www.mujca.com/)
Individuals supporting the govt story - TBA

We have contacted others to represent the government story including James Meigs and David Coburn of Popular Mechnics. Their Secretary has advised us that Meigs and Coburn are no longer accepting any offers to discuss topics on 9/11 Others are in the process of gathering possible representatives. Please email us at pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org if you would be interested in representing the goverment position regarding the events at the Pentagon.

Topics of Dicussion will include (but not limited to) -

Hani Hanjour
Flight Data Recorder
Witnesses - published and non-published
Other issues surrounding the Pentagon

We hope to see you there!

Rob Balsamo
Co-Founder
pilotsfor911truth.org


For anyone calling in to challenge these idiots just remember to point out that no one is defending a so-called "government position." Point out that such a claim is a red herring and why it is the foundation of the 9/11 Truth Movement's house of cards. Make it clear that the source of the evidence comes from hundreds of independent sources, and thousands of pieces of evidence, and only summarized by the various reports like the 9/11 Commission Report, specifically backed up by the FEMA, NIST and ASCE reports and never refuted, but neither originating with, nor ever controlled by, the "government."

Balsamo, by defining the terms as "defending the government story" is just playing to the necessity of having to avoid that the evidence does not, and never did, come from the government. The 9/11 Truth Movement, as you all know, has always had to paint the issue as "them versus the government." They and we know it ain't so. Make them wallow in their deceit and expose them as the dishonest bastards they are.

Anyone of you able to articulate that point on air will nail them to the wall on the phoniness of the 9/11 Truth Movement.

[Mr. Skinny]

Personally, I debunk this stuff because I firmly believe that real stupidity needs to be humiliated in public.

But I do it because I want to not because I think I have some mission.
I just think it's amusing that on one hand the truth movement folks ridicule us, but on the other hand seem to think we are somehow the "point of the spear", so to speak.

I don't recall anyone here claiming they (we) knew everything, or that we were somehow the "official debunker site" to look to when it came to representing debunkers on a radio program (one that, frankly, I've never listened to).

I just don't get it. The other day I quoted a guy from the Loose Change forum that seemed to think being refered to as a JREFer was the worst insult one could imagine.

Which is it? Respected or ridiculed? Seems it can't be both.

Then again, I don't read other conspiracy theory sites very often. Maybe I'm totally out of line.

[theauthor]

I just think it's amusing that on one hand the truth movement folks ridicule us, but on the other hand seem to think we are somehow the "point of the spear", so to speak.

I don't recall anyone here claiming they (we) knew everything, or that we were somehow the "official debunker site" to look to when it came to representing debunkers on a radio program (one that, frankly, I've never listened to).

I just don't get it. The other day I quoted a guy from the Loose Change forum that seemed to think being refered to as a JREFer was the worst insult one could imagine.

Which is it? Respected or ridiculed? Seems it can't be both.

Then again, I don't read other conspiracy theory sites very often. Maybe I'm totally out of line.


I saw a thread in which people here wanted to know where they could send requests from the media for debunkers. Brainster has appeared on many radio shows and Gravy appeared on many shows with Ron.

JREF conspiracy subforum is the self styled centre of debunking.
But when the going gets tough, you run away.

[Mr. Skinny]

I saw a thread in which people here wanted to know where they could send requests from the media for debunkers. Brainster has appeared on many radio shows and Gravy appeared on many shows with Ron.
I'm not sure how to read the first sentence. I know it's a PITA, but do you have a link to the thread, or could you restate the first sentence?

Brainster and Gravy are not employed by, nor do they officially represent the JREF, theauthor.

JREF conspiracy subforum is the self styled centre of debunking.
But when the going gets tough, you run away.
Well, I agree, that the JREF conspiracy subforum is a (not the) "self styled centre of debunking", how is that any different than any other debunker site or sites?

What makes the JREF so special? That's my question.


Edited to add: If the answer to my question is " The JREF conspiracy subform is simply the most popular/well read/ most authorative site in the minds of the truth movement", I'm willing to accept that explanation.

[beachnut]

On the last air america debate on 911, Kevin Barrett gleefully made the point that they couldnt find any architects or engineers etc to represent the official story. Looks like JREF are going to prove him right again.
That is due to the fact Barrett's insane ideas on 9/11 are like arguing with a Lock Ness Monster believer, or a Bigfoot believer. They are insane, how do you argue with idiots who jump from one fact challenged idea to the next never presenting evidence! It is impossible to keep up with their ideas, they are dolts who believe it is so because they say it is.

CIT and p4t have no evidence, they also have the motto, "we have no theory"! They are pure hearsay speculation experts who are too fact challenged to form rational conclusions. Why? What is wrong with them?

Please, if you have heard a rational idea backed with evidence from these fact challenged beings, present them.

List their rational ideas on 9/11, and the evidence. You will find not one thing!

They calculated 11.2 Gs with the most pathetically perverted version of math and physics I have seen. Bad, you can not correct it, you have to do your own version. It turned out the 11.2 G fantasy math mess up could be done with less than 1.7 Gs.

How do you debate pure garbage from fact challenged beings? You can not teach them physics in an hour. The conclusions they draw on witnesses is pathetic. Have you seen how bad their analysis is?

No one needs to show up to tell what really happen on 9/11, the cit, p4t and Barrett, will debunk themselves. Their ideas are so far out it is self critiquing. I have exposed ordinary people to their statements, they call them nut cases, pure stupid and other names for intelligence levels lower than dirt. When I tell them a few of them make money off of their idea, they understand it is standard old snake oil salesmen, updated to the internet.

I wonder if CIT actually believe their ideas. I mean non-paths. Do they have any new non-paths. What is it, p4t had to coach them not to commit to any paths NOC. You have to remember, p4t have zero theories on 9/11. They also have zero evidence. A clean slate.

Who believes cit and p4t? Their membership has never taken off. Their most famous member believe aliens live among us, and he has as much evidence for his ideas as p4t and cit have for their implications of pathetic conclusions which they can not make because they have no official theory.

The most fact challenged idea they push, the silliest notion, is their calling everyone who understands 9/11 events, government loyalists, or government apologist; what is the term they use. It makes them looks so fact challenged.

I can see air america now; will you debate some people who think 77 did not hit the Pentagon? What? Are you nuts? Who would debate nut case ideas?

p4t co founder use to come here to post, but he can not play by the rules. He has an issue with facts and evidence, if you use them he bans you at p4t, and here he blew up and got mad; self destructed. He comes back and has copies of all my erased secret posts. He is paranoid; an over the hill pilot like me, but he must of be grounded for being paranoid fact challenged and not able to handle criticism; is he still grounded?

The leader of the p4t does not know the number of feet in a nautical mile, he does not know the frequency band a radio altimeter works at. These are things kids can look up on the internet. He is going to use what you say against you instead of sticking to the facts; oops cit and p4t have no facts! Well, what can they do but make up stories of how they have something about 9/11, but wait; p4t have no theories! They are too challenged to figure out what the passengers on flight 93 figured out in minutes. The p4t are not able to do math after 6 years! Yep, a fifth grader can look up a few terms and know more than the entire aviation knowledge of the leader of the pack at p4t. You have to log in to see the forum at p4t, they have to bump their numbers some how. Their phone up expert on a FDR is a salesman. They have attracted about 0.00001 percent of all pilots to join their non-theory bad math/physics club. Or is it less?

Funny, what will they do present their evidence; oops, that took zero time!

11.2 G error man must be a slow typist. He thinks JREF is wasting time thinking about him. The 11.2 G physics expert, mr nautical mile must understand he is the one pushing the false information, or at least implication of false conclusion, (since he does not have a theory or conclusion) and skeptics are happy to expose his false ideas. It is ironic he calls others names without cause, yet misses why he is labeled a snake oil salesman. Irony.

I can see most the time will be spent on the only fact they will have, one came to debate their fantasy ideas. Wowzer;

Ron is too calm when he is with total fact challenged expert like p4t and cit. Or will they ever show up in NYC?

No need to personally attack cit or p4t, they have no facts and no evidence. The proof is they have zero theories, no conclusions, they just sell DVDs to others and plug their web sites. Pilots for truth, are not for truth, they are for selling DVDs; CIT, the Citizen investigation team is the same, selling false information to willing buyers. Their own witnesses debunk them, and if a witness does not support their ideas, they are a government agent. Paranoid stuff, if you do lots of drugs, you may fall for the ideas of cit and p4t.

[Myriad]

It might also be pointed out that people with actual expertise often require more than two days' notice for an engagement.

Anyone who wants to prove me wrong is welcome to attempt to get a tree surgeon, consulting structural engineer, or dishwasher repairman onto their property by first thing Friday morning, without involving a relative or spending all day Wednesday on the phone.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[MarkyX]

I think you guys are missing the picture.

Tell me, does the public even remotely care about CIT or Pilots of 9/11 Denial? No, they don't. These people have nothing to contribute and are ignored by the masses. Let them claim victory; they can only brag to five other people who care about their existence.

[pomeroo]

I think you guys are missing the picture.

Tell me, does the public even remotely care about CIT or Pilots of 9/11 Denial? No, they don't. These people have nothing to contribute and are ignored by the masses. Let them claim victory; they can only brag to five other people who care about their existence.


Marky, Air America is a loony-left network, but Bush Derangement Syndrome is no excuse for promoting the CIT's lunacy. The "pilots" will be peddling their snake oil to the largest audience they could ever hope to reach.

[Thunder]

in all honesty and sincerity.....why would anyone want to participate in such a "debate"??

all the evidence will be disregarded as govt. disinfo and all witnesses as agents/shills/Zionists.

the debate is over. the truth won...and the "Truth" lost.

[Jonnyclueless]

I think you guys are missing the picture.

Tell me, does the public even remotely care about CIT or Pilots of 9/11 Denial? No, they don't. These people have nothing to contribute and are ignored by the masses. Let them claim victory; they can only brag to five other people who care about their existence.

Sometimes people's understandable distaste for the current administration can make them want to believe in the stuff CIT sells just because it makes it that much easier to hate the administration. Many of them simply have never been exposed to the nonsense. Not to mention that the kids at CIT are going to make a misleading argument so as to con these people by leaving out important stuff such as there not being any witnesses for their flyover, or the fact that eyewitness testimony is often incorrect. Most people don't know these things and thus without knowing it, their BS couold sound convincing.

[pomeroo]

Sometimes people's understandable distaste for the current administration can make them want to believe in the stuff CIT sells just because it makes it that much easier to hate the administration. Many of them simply have never been exposed to the nonsense. Not to mention that the kids at CIT are going to make a misleading argument so as to con these people by leaving out important stuff such as there not being any witnesses for their flyover, or the fact that eyewitness testimony is often incorrect. Most people don't know these things and thus without knowing it, their BS couold sound convincing.


Precisely.

[Myriad]

The scheduling makes it out of the question for me to participate, even if it were just a matter of phoning in.

Otherwise, I'd consider offering to participate, though I'd understand if the show turned me down. I'm not an architect, engineer, or aviator. But I've learned enough here to be able to refute these guys' claims, I can speak plainly, and I have a face for radio. I'm just about the quality of opposition they've earned.

I do hope someone is available to fill the role.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[pomeroo]

Amazingly, I omitted Ryan Mackey from my list of people who should accept the invitation to expose the bogus "pilots." What was I thinking?

[theauthor]

You could include the whole of JREf in your list and I will still bet you 1000 dollars that none of of them agree to this show.

You must have noticed by now that it is the official story supporters who are afraid to debate. Even popular mechanics won't debate the subject any more after Davin Coburn was soundly humiliated by Charles Goyette. The national 911 debate didn't occur because the OCTs wouldn't show.

Then just a week ago on the very same radio show that will be hosting CIT, Richard gage, Steven Jones and Kevin Barrett all appeared to debate. Guess what? The only person who would appear for the debate was an ex-marine with no relevant expertise.

[beachnut]

Then just a week ago on the very same radio show that will be hosting CIT, Richard gage, Steven Jones and Kevin Barrett all appeared to debate. Guess what? The only person who would appear for the debate was an ex-marine with no relevant expertise.
You should debate them. You could compare evidence, the show could be over in a minute.

They have failed to do simple math, they have no theory, what will they debate?

No evidence, no rational story, how can you debate people who make up new stuff on the fly? What do you do when they say they discovered bigfoot scat in back of the Pentagon proving 77 flew by? They use pure hearsay, you can not even question what they say, they didn't say it.

They need no one to show up as proof the events of 9/11 were strange. They have to say it is a government story to even get people interested. What a bunch of junk. But since p4t have zero theories, what is there to debate, they have no theories.
We do not offer theory
They have some made up implications of ideas on 9/11. Is that it? Go read their no theory web page. See the 11.2 G physics error. See how anti-intellectual people can be.

Selling the truth for 15 bucks - p4t and cit! they take master card visa paypal amex discover $$$$$$ buy false information or read it on the internet and use your own mind! What a novel idea.

[realitybites]

While I can see Pomeroo's point in not wanting to let idiocy like this get a pass on such a (relative to the movement) large forum, part of me says let them go.

They whine and complain of all these "gatekeepers" who are preventing them from bringing about justice. This internet radio show has the potential of reaching more of an audience than LCFC.

It will be interesting to see how they chalk up their lack of progress after this airs.

[pomeroo]

You could include the whole of JREf in your list and I will still bet you 1000 dollars that none of of them agree to this show.

You must have noticed by now that it is the official story supporters who are afraid to debate. Even popular mechanics won't debate the subject any more after Davin Coburn was soundly humiliated by Charles Goyette. The national 911 debate didn't occur because the OCTs wouldn't show.


Goyette pretended to be an "agnostic," a popular word with conspiracy frauds. Those of us who are familiar with the interview forget how Coburn was "humiliated," possibly because it didn't happen. The national debate didn't occur because the liars wrongly imagine that they can persuade representatives of NIST and the military to sit through a blizzard of their deranged falsehoods.



Then just a week ago on the very same radio show that will be hosting CIT, Richard gage, Steven Jones and Kevin Barrett all appeared to debate. Guess what? The only person who would appear for the debate was an ex-marine with no relevant expertise.


Guess what? Your fellow liars made sure that nobody knew about the show. Why do you suppose these charlatans run from all real debates?

[16.5]

"If no one does step up to the plate, we can read through the thread on air to show the world how our "opposition" behaves, and we can address the few arguments that are pointed out in the thread."

Hmmm, OK:

Balsamo : Why can't you provide us the math to support your proposed flight path at the Pentagon?

CIT: Why do you claim that all of your witnesses were mistaken or brainwashed when they all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: Why did it take you so long to fix your egregious errors about the acceleration of gravity?

CIT: Why do you claim that all of your witnesses were mistaken or brainwashed when they all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Balsamo : Why are you hanging around Kevin Barrett? Do you think it is a good idea to hang people who point out your errors about the acceleration of gravity?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Balsamo : How about those CIT guys, laughingstock or just pathetic?

Barrett: What are you doing with that noose?

CIT: Say, Dom asked a great question: Why are you licking Gatekeepers boots?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Balsamo : Ya got that math for your flight path yet? Take your time. I know you got to bring a couple of knuckleheads to a radio show. Tell you what, you send your math over any old time.

CIT: Nevermind, we know why.

[pomeroo]

"If no one does step up to the plate, we can read through the thread on air to show the world how our "opposition" behaves, and we can address the few arguments that are pointed out in the thread."

Hmmm, OK:

Gage: Why can't you provide us the math to support your proposed flight path at the Pentagon?

CIT: Why do you claim that all of your witnesses were mistaken or brainwashed when they all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: Why did it take you so long to fix your egregious errors about the acceleration of gravity?

CIT: Why do you claim that all of your witnesses were mistaken or brainwashed when they all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: Why are you hanging around Kevin Barrett? Do you think it is a good idea to hang people who point out your errors about the acceleration of gravity?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: How about those CIT guys, laughingstock or just pathetic?

Barrett: What are you doing with that noose?

CIT: Say, Dom asked a great question: Why are you licking Gatekeepers boots?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

CIT: Why do you ignore the fact that all of your witnesses all said the plane hit the Pentagon?

Gage: Ya got that math for your flight path yet? Take your time. I know you got to bring a couple of knuckleheads to a radio show. Tell you what, you send your math over any old time.

CIT: Nevermind, we know why.


But, we know all of this stuff. The audience of Air America doesn't. And being far-left loons, they are prepared to buy any sort of crap as long as it slanders Bush.

[Bobert]

Guess what? Your fellow liars made sure that nobody knew about the show. Why do you suppose these charlatans run from all real debates?

Seems that they are repeating this and then crying about how no debunkers are showing up.
Funny how Rob is the co-producer so you would figure if he really wanted and was open to having a debunker guest on the show then he would have made it happen
This guy is a joke.
Funny to how Craig should be excited that he has a radio show from which to present his "evidence" and begin the trials like he said would begin but instead he is whining and crying about no debunkers being on the show.
Craig is a pathetic joke.

[Bobert]

But, we know all of this stuff. The audience of Air America doesn't. And being far-left loons, they are prepared to buy any sort of crap as long as it slanders Bush.

Does Air America normally have members of the truth movement on?
Rob co produces this so does he normally co-produce shows for AM?

For the sake of argument if the truthers are not normally on AM then I am holding out hope that the audience of AM will not buy into the fantasy that Craig is pushing.

[qarnos]

According to Richard Dawkins, when one of his (anonymous) Australian Colleagues is challenged to debate a creationist he responds "That would look great on your CV - not so great on mine". I think that might apply here.

[beachnut]

They will say Hani can't fly. He hits the Pentagon in real life, and the only pilots on the planet who can not hit the side of building in the safety of a flight simulator are pilots, and the members of the prestigious, we ain't got no stinkin' theories p4t.

If anyone calls in, remind the challenged pilots of p4t, that a small prop plane pilot entered a 757 simulator on film, and preformed an impact into the Pentagon, first time, zero time in heavies. Oops, only p4t pilots are not as good as rookie pilots, and murdering terrorists! That is a expert status worthy of 9/11 truth groups. Wowzer.

Remind Rob Balsamo the frequency band the radar altimeter works at; it is easy to look up. Then remind Rob Balsamo the number of feet in a nautical mile. Be sure to help these guys out, the are not good at math, or physics, and they have a hard time figuring out in six years what the passengers on flight 93 figured out in minutes. They also use 9/11 events and stir up ideas to sell DVDs for 15 bucks. The truth only cost 15 bucks.
The Pentacon, Citizen Investigation Team, look it up save 15 bucks, think for yourself

[celestrin]

The best people for this show are John Farmer (http://911files.info/blog/index.php) and Adam Larson (Caustic Logic) (http://frustratingfraud.blogspot.com/). If they do it infront of running cameras, they can sell the show as the real world Celebrity Deathmatch. I bet there would be pieces of anatomy flying, even shadowing each other, through the air.

I'm actually not kidding about the proposal. Why would Air America need "official story" supporters as counteracts, when their CT friends can debunk them almost just as clearly.

[ConspiRaider]

Amazingly, I omitted Ryan Mackey from my list of people who should accept the invitation to expose the bogus "pilots." What was I thinking?
That's not all you forgot. What about a professional wiseass? Shows like that always need one, and I am the undisputed champeen professionaliest wiseass on JREForum. I offer my services.

Wait. Thursday the 15th? I'll be schmoozing with Hillary out here in Los Angeles at that time. Next time though.

[MIKILLINI]

You could include the whole of JREf in your list and I will still bet you 1000 dollars that none of of them agree to this show.

You must have noticed by now that it is the official story supporters who are afraid to debate. Even popular mechanics won't debate the subject any more after Davin Coburn was soundly humiliated by Charles Goyette. The national 911 debate didn't occur because the OCTs wouldn't show.

Then just a week ago on the very same radio show that will be hosting CIT, Richard gage, Steven Jones and Kevin Barrett all appeared to debate. Guess what? The only person who would appear for the debate was an ex-marine with no relevant expertise.

And still the CIT movement continues to lose the momentum it has never achieved. Why is that?

[ConspiRaider]

On the last air america debate on 911, Kevin Barrett gleefully made the point that they couldnt find any architects or engineers etc to represent the official story. Looks like JREF are going to prove him right again.
Totally and absolutely and completely and entirely wrong-ola.

Okay sure the propeller-heads are cowardly no-shows but they sent me the tape and Barrett was NOT gleeful! Sheez! I detected overbearance, mellifluous tonality, ponderous undercurrents and ostentatious hyperbole, all blended together with a slurriness as filler. No glee - zippo on that.

[quicknthedead]

That is due to the fact Barrett's insane ideas on 9/11 are like arguing with a Lock Ness Monster believer, or a Bigfoot believer. They are insane, how do you argue with idiots who jump from one fact challenged idea to the next never presenting evidence! It is impossible to keep up with their ideas, they are dolts who believe it is so because they say it is.

CIT and p4t have no evidence, they also have the motto, "we have no theory"! They are pure hearsay speculation experts who are too fact challenged to form rational conclusions. Why? What is wrong with them?

Please, if you have heard a rational idea backed with evidence from these fact challenged beings, present them.

List their rational ideas on 9/11, and the evidence. You will find not one thing!

They calculated 11.2 Gs with the most pathetically perverted version of math and physics I have seen. Bad, you can not correct it, you have to do your own version. It turned out the 11.2 G fantasy math mess up could be done with less than 1.7 Gs.

How do you debate pure garbage from fact challenged beings? You can not teach them physics in an hour. The conclusions they draw on witnesses is pathetic. Have you seen how bad their analysis is?

No one needs to show up to tell what really happen on 9/11, the cit, p4t and Barrett, will debunk themselves. Their ideas are so far out it is self critiquing. I have exposed ordinary people to their statements, they call them nut cases, pure stupid and other names for intelligence levels lower than dirt. When I tell them a few of them make money off of their idea, they understand it is standard old snake oil salesmen, updated to the internet.

I wonder if CIT actually believe their ideas. I mean non-paths. Do they have any new non-paths. What is it, p4t had to coach them not to commit to any paths NOC. You have to remember, p4t have zero theories on 9/11. They also have zero evidence. A clean slate.

Who believes cit and p4t? Their membership has never taken off. Their most famous member believe aliens live among us, and he has as much evidence for his ideas as p4t and cit have for their implications of pathetic conclusions which they can not make because they have no official theory.

The most fact challenged idea they push, the silliest notion, is their calling everyone who understands 9/11 events, government loyalists, or government apologist; what is the term they use. It makes them looks so fact challenged.

I can see air america now; will you debate some people who think 77 did not hit the Pentagon? What? Are you nuts? Who would debate nut case ideas?

p4t co founder use to come here to post, but he can not play by the rules. He has an issue with facts and evidence, if you use them he bans you at p4t, and here he blew up and got mad; self destructed. He comes back and has copies of all my erased secret posts. He is paranoid; an over the hill pilot like me, but he must of be grounded for being paranoid fact challenged and not able to handle criticism; is he still grounded?

The leader of the p4t does not know the number of feet in a nautical mile, he does not know the frequency band a radio altimeter works at. These are things kids can look up on the internet. He is going to use what you say against you instead of sticking to the facts; oops cit and p4t have no facts! Well, what can they do but make up stories of how they have something about 9/11, but wait; p4t have no theories! They are too challenged to figure out what the passengers on flight 93 figured out in minutes. The p4t are not able to do math after 6 years! Yep, a fifth grader can look up a few terms and know more than the entire aviation knowledge of the leader of the pack at p4t. You have to log in to see the forum at p4t, they have to bump their numbers some how. Their phone up expert on a FDR is a salesman. They have attracted about 0.00001 percent of all pilots to join their non-theory bad math/physics club. Or is it less?

Funny, what will they do present their evidence; oops, that took zero time!

11.2 G error man must be a slow typist. He thinks JREF is wasting time thinking about him. The 11.2 G physics expert, mr nautical mile must understand he is the one pushing the false information, or at least implication of false conclusion, (since he does not have a theory or conclusion) and skeptics are happy to expose his false ideas. It is ironic he calls others names without cause, yet misses why he is labeled a snake oil salesman. Irony.

I can see most the time will be spent on the only fact they will have, one came to debate their fantasy ideas. Wowzer;

Ron is too calm when he is with total fact challenged expert like p4t and cit. Or will they ever show up in NYC?

No need to personally attack cit or p4t, they have no facts and no evidence. The proof is they have zero theories, no conclusions, they just sell DVDs to others and plug their web sites. Pilots for truth, are not for truth, they are for selling DVDs; CIT, the Citizen investigation team is the same, selling false information to willing buyers. Their own witnesses debunk them, and if a witness does not support their ideas, they are a government agent. Paranoid stuff, if you do lots of drugs, you may fall for the ideas of cit and p4t.

You have it right, Beachnut. In all likelihood this will end up being just another exercise in futility.

Of course, it doesn't have to be.

Here's an idea. Should JREF go as a team with a simple, sound strategy, such as deciding on a couple of ideas to attack (but no more than two) of the main theories that are outright wrong and easily proven so, you could nail them.

E.g., their gross error on the magnetic heading regarding the FDR might be a good target.

To whoever goes, if you keep it simple with your eyes on the target topic, and keep calm and collected {which is important since confidence and graciousness are a winning combination}, the facts should carry the day and win the debate.

If you decide on two topics (but no more than that) to target, they should easily expend the allotted time for the entire program (you do not want any spinning off onto side topics that only fritter away time).

Be a team in your minds, work together, and remember:
It ain't whatcha got--it's whatcha do with whatcha got! :thumbsup: :)

With what this forum has produced lately, whoever goes should do well.

Good luck!

[Brainache]

But, we know all of this stuff. The audience of Air America doesn't. And being far-left loons, they are prepared to buy any sort of crap as long as it slanders Bush.

Hey! Speaking as a far left loon, I resent that remark. Nobody needs to invent crap to discredit Bush, that's why the Truthers annoy me so much.

[uk_dave]

On the last air america debate on 911, Kevin Barrett gleefully made the point that they couldnt find any architects or engineers etc to represent the official story. Looks like JREF are going to prove him right again.

Were they willing to pay a fee? I do believe that most reputable news media will pay a fee to a professional consultant who appears on their programming, and, since real architects and engineers have nothing to sell (whereas the 'truthers' have a whole load of snake oil and their grandiose egos to sell) I think it is unreasonable to expect someone to come on to a commercial program and use their own valuable time in order to defend something which needs no defending against people who, quite frankly, don't have a clue.

[Brainster]

Guest will be:
Craig Ranke from Citizen Investigation Team http://thepentacon.com (http://thepentacon.com/)
Rob Balsamo, Co-Founder, Pilots For 9/11 Truth http://pilotsfor911truth.org (http://pilotsfor911truth.org/)
Kevin Barret http://www.mujca.com/ (http://www.mujca.com/)
Individuals supporting the govt story - TBA

Any idea why Barrett is participating? What does he bring to the discussion?

Suggested topics:

1. What happened to the light poles?
2. Why is the only person they accuse of being involved in the crime an old black taxicab driver?

Include me out (not that anybody was including me in, mind you).

[uk_dave]

05/13/08 - We hope you'll join us regarding the issues surrounding the Pentagon Attack this Thursday, May 15, 2008 at 9pm Eastern on Air America Radio with your host Richard Greene, Co-Produced by Rob Balsamo, Co-Founder, Pilots For 9/11 Truth. The show will be streaming on the internet at http://airamerica.com/clout (http://airamerica.com/clout)


How does one get a co-producer credit on air america?

[Stellafane]

On the last air america debate on 911, Kevin Barrett gleefully made the point that they couldnt find any architects or engineers etc to represent the official story. Looks like JREF are going to prove him right again.

Kevin Barrett just as gleefully said journalists who disagree with him should die. I think anyone who looks up to such a stupid and potentially dangerous neo-fascist is a complete tool. Looks like truthers are proving me right yet again.

[Stellafane]

That's not all you forgot. What about a professional wiseass? Shows like that always need one, and I am the undisputed champeen professionaliest wiseass on JREForum. I offer my services.

Wait. Thursday the 15th? I'll be schmoozing with Hillary out here in Los Angeles at that time. Next time though.

I like this idea! Show the CTers (and any remaining "agnostics" out there) that at this point they're only good for laughs. Then watch their short fuses go off in a sputtering rage. It won't serve the cause of the march of human knowledge, but it'll make for good radio. Considering the room-temperature IQs of the CTer audience, that's probably the only way you can reach them anyway, since talk of science and technology is clearly well over their heads.

[A W Smith]

They have not presented their flight path nor have they corrected their math. So why bother? They are illegitimate. They say themselves the time for debate is over. So why are they debating and not presenting their witness testimony to federal prosecutors? Theirs is a publicity attempt and nothing more. Don't give them the time of day, let them figure out what time it is. let them try to explain the following

Why go through the effort and substantial risk to stage light poles when the plane could just as easily steepened its dive to avoid those light poles?
Why are pentagon employees strapped to their "office chairs"?
Why involve an 80 year old feeble minded taxi driver who is not even sure what he saw rather than a sharp college educated 30 something year old actor/shill to be a professional witness and the driver of a car punctured by your "staged light pole"?
Why does cit and PFT label those who disagree with them "loyalist apologists" or "disinfo"?
By the same token. Why are witnesses that support your NOC flight path called "mistaken" when they claim the plane flew into the building. But those who do not see a NOC path yet claim the plane flew into the building are called shills, special interest, gov employees or contractors or disinfo?
Why have other conspiracy theorists who even accompanied you to Virginia abandoned you and questioned your motives?

[Disbelief]

Ask Craig to use his seesaw analogy.

[A W Smith]

Ask Craig to use his seesaw analogy.


Is that graphic still around anywhere?

[Disbelief]

Is that graphic still around anywhere?

I am sure someone saved it. Maybe AA can have a webcam and give Craig a whiteboard. That way, he could prove to everyone that the need for calculations is moot.

[metamars]

According to Richard Dawkins, when one of his (anonymous) Australian Colleagues is challenged to debate a creationist he responds "That would look great on your CV - not so great on mine". I think that might apply here.

OTOH, Dawkins will run from a debate that could have easily occurred during a meeting that was procured, on his behalf, after he's already shown up, complete with a film crew.


Kind of curious behavior for a man who says “The paranormal is bunk. Those who try to sell it to us are fakes and charlatans", don't you think? I mean, he's already there with a fake or charlatan, complete with film crew, but won't even get what Sheldrake has to say on film for later reference.

Images of Lloyd in Dumb and Dumber, sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "LA LA LA LA LA LA!" come to mind.....


From http://www.sheldrake.org/D&C/controversies/Dawkins.html


The previous week I had sent Richard copies of some of my papers, published in peer-reviewed journals, so that he could look at the data.

Richard seemed uneasy and said, “I’m don’t want to discuss evidence”. “Why not?” I asked. “There isn’t time. It’s too complicated. And that’s not what this programme is about.” The camera stopped.

The Director, Russell Barnes, confirmed that he too was not interested in evidence. The film he was making was another Dawkins polemic.

I said to Russell, “If you’re treating telepathy as an irrational belief, surely evidence about whether it exists or not is essential for the discussion. If telepathy occurs, it’s not irrational to believe in it. I thought that’s what we were going to talk about. I made it clear from the outset that I wasn’t interested in taking part in another low grade debunking exercise.”

Richard said, “It’s not a low grade debunking exercise; it’s a high grade debunking exercise.”

In that case, I replied, there had been a serious misunderstanding, because I had been led to believe that this was to be a balanced scientific discussion about evidence. Russell Barnes asked to see the emails I had received from his assistant. He read them with obvious dismay, and said the assurances she had given me were wrong. The team packed up and left.


For those who say that Dawkins was simply unprepared, and that's all there is to his cut and run, notice his complete lack of interest in setting up a subsequent meeting.

I think it's fair to say that it's better for Dawkins' cv if he sticks with debunking the creationists.

[Thunder]

The time for perpetual, futile, and unproductive debates is over. It is time for the Truth Club to prevent their evidence to a court of law.

The fact that the Truth Club prefers to debate, make Youtube videos, and "confront" politicians, rather then bring their evidence to a court...is very telling.

[chillzero]

For those who say that Dawkins was simply unprepared, and that's all there is to his cut and run, notice his complete lack of interest in setting up a subsequent meeting.

I think it's fair to say that it's better for Dawkins' cv if he sticks with debunking the creationists.

New thread please - preferably under Religion and Philosophy

[Drudgewire]

The time for perpetual, futile, and unproductive debates is over. It is time for the Truth Club to prevent their evidence to a court of law.

The fact that the Truth Club prefers to debate, make Youtube videos, and "confront" politicians, rather then bring their evidence to a court...is very telling.

Yup. Debating loons who base their movement around soundbytes and fraud, especially to what looks like will be a clueless and receptive host, is at this point retarded. Been there, done that, and coddled and entertained these yutzes far longer than we ever should have.

And if Air America wants to go down this road, shame on them. Of course with the dire straits that trainwreck is in, reaching out to the lunatic fringe might mean 10 new listeners... which at this point will affect their overall demographics. :p

[16.5]

Tell you what, why don't they hook up some Truthers to debate them?

Arabesque and Russell Pickering (who outright asserts that CIT misled its star witnesses) think that they are fools and disinfo, and Pickering was with them!

Tell CIT and Pilots to come up with a coherent flight plane, and to face up to the fact that each and every one of their witnesses destroys their fantasy, and then maybe there will be room for discussion.

And what the Sam Hell is Hang 'Em High Kevin Barrett doing there? Why is Air America giving the Robespierre of the Truth Movement one second of air time?

[nicepants]

If they do decide to read through this thread on-air, they'll probably skip over these questions:

- Craig: How were you able to determine that all of your eyewitnesses were correct?
- Can you plot a flight path that includes the locations of the plane reported by all of your witnesses?
- How many witnesses reported a flyover?
- What authorities/members of the mainstream media/government officials/attorneys have you presented your evidence to? (& what was their response?)
- If you really believe what you claim? Why are you spending all of your time arguing on message boards instead of bringing the evil-doers to justice?

[PB&J]

The time for perpetual, futile, and unproductive debates is over. It is time for the Truth Club to prevent their evidence to a court of law.

The fact that the Truth Club prefers to debate, make Youtube videos, and "confront" politicians, rather then bring their evidence to a court...is very telling.

exactly. there is more than enough information readily available for anyone who cares to completely discredit these guys.

so if they start getting less and less internet attention (which seems to be the trend lately), they have no where else to go but the courts and put their money where their mouth is.

"no publicity is bad publicity" for them. if you want to really get under their skin, completely dismiss and ignore them.

[Brainster]

Tell you what, why don't they hook up some Truthers to debate them?

Arabesque and Russell Pickering (who outright asserts that CIT misled its star witnesses) think that they are fools and disinfo, and Pickering was with them!

This may be why there has been no mention of this event over at 9-11 Flogger, and why my old buddy Balsamo hasn't contacted me about at least promoting his event.

[dudalb]

And if Air America wants to go down this road, shame on them. Of course with the dire straits that trainwreck is in, reaching out to the lunatic fringe might mean 10 new listeners... which at this point will affect their overall demographics.

I agree 100%.
The problem with Air America is not that it is liberal, but that it is lousy radio. The founders had no experience in radio,and it showed. They were so anxious to push their political viewpoint they forgot you have to entertain while you are doing it. They hired people like Janine Garefelo who had no experience in radio whatsover,and,surprise, she was a lousy talk show hosts. A couple of the hosts were OK, but they were outweighted by the bad talk show hosts.
It came off like amateur hour radio all to often,and the recent Randi Rhodes fiasco is a nail in the coffin. It is being kept afloat by contributions,and sooner or later the contributers will decide that there are better ways to support their politcal views.

[A W Smith]

Tell you what, why don't they hook up some Truthers to debate them?

Arabesque and Russell Pickering (who outright asserts that CIT misled its star witnesses) think that they are fools and disinfo, and Pickering was with them!

Tell CIT and Pilots to come up with a coherent flight plane, and to face up to the fact that each and every one of their witnesses destroys their fantasy, and then maybe there will be room for discussion.

And what the Sam Hell is Hang 'Em High Kevin Barrett doing there? Why is Air America giving the Robespierre of the Truth Movement one second of air time?


Like I said. their own conspiracy theorists have abandoned them

http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2007/05/critical-review-of-pentacon-smoking-gun.html

http://911files.info/blog/index.php

http://frustratingfraud.blogspot.com/

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

How does one get a co-producer credit on air america?

Considering Air America's lack of ad revenue and listeners... I would suspect having a pulse qualifies.

[Drudgewire]

I agree 100%.
The problem with Air America is not that it is liberal, but that it is lousy radio. The founders had no experience in radio,and it showed. They were so anxious to push their political viewpoint they forgot you have to entertain while you are doing it. They hired people like Janine Garefelo who had no experience in radio whatsover,and,surprise, she was a lousy talk show hosts. A couple of the hosts were OK, but they were outweighted by the bad talk show hosts.
It came off like amateur hour radio all to often,and the recent Randi Rhodes fiasco is a nail in the coffin. It is being kept afloat by contributions,and sooner or later the contributers will decide that there are better ways to support their politcal views.

Exactly. I've been on all sides of the political spectrum and even in my most liberal days I loved Rush. Not because of his viewpoints at all, but because the guy... rhetoric aside... is funnier than hell. Good song parodies, good flow, and a sense he belongs behind a microphone.

Air America really went into this thinking anyone can do what he does, because listeners are nothing but zombies who only care about someone who supports their viewpoint. Well, there are hundreds of right wing talk show hosts who are on one station and will never get a bigger gig.

AA's biggest mistake was trying to turn comedians into serious commentators. It made as much sense as hiring a sports analyst to host a show on interior design, and pretty much exposed the hosts as being really good at soundbytes, but terrible at discussing policy at length.

ETA: And maybe they did so I could be off-base here. But why did they never try to bring in Neil Rogers? He was one of the few reasons I hated leaving Florida.

[nicepants]

Aldo @ LCF posted an e-mail from Rob to Richard

Hi Richard,

As you know by now, we are unable to find much opposition in terms of professional, civil discussion. We have tried Popular Mechanics and the NTSB. So we have decided to scrape the bottom of the barrel and invite internet "debunkers" who spend their days and nights obsessed with our work (although now they are using the excuse they dont want to give us any "attention" when a debate challenge arises). I phoned "pomoroo" on the linked thread below and he started a thread looking for "opposition", but as you can see, not many are stepping up to the plate and after reading through the thread, you can see why it is "scraping the bottom of the barrel" as its mostly ad homs and personal attacks.

If no one does step up to the plate, we can read through the thread on air to show the world how our "opposition" behaves, and we can address the few arguments that are pointed out in the thread. You can find it here...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=113627

Regards,
Rob

...and yet even at the bottom of the barrel, we're able solve simple math problems in a matter of hours, while Rob spends 2 months on them and still doesn't have the solution. I guess that puts pft not even in the barrel, but beneath it.

[A W Smith]

Originally Posted by Rob
Hi Richard,

As you know by now, we are unable to find much opposition in terms of professional, civil discussion. We have tried Popular Mechanics and the NTSB. So we have decided to scrape the bottom of the barrel and invite internet "debunkers" who spend their days and nights obsessed with our work(although now they are using the excuse they dont want to give us any "attention" when a debate challenge arises). I phoned "pomoroo" on the linked thread below and he started a thread looking for "opposition", but as you can see, not many are stepping up to the plate and after reading through the thread, you can see why it is "scraping the bottom of the barrel" as its mostly ad homs and personal attacks.

If no one does step up to the plate, we can read through the thread on air to show the world how our "opposition" behaves, and we can address the few arguments that are pointed out in the thread. You can find it here...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=113627 (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=113627)

Regards,
Rob


OK Rob

Reconcile the NOC witnesses and all the other witnesses to a physically possible flight path. do it now. You have had almost seven years. don't forget to include witness Morin in your calculations. Remember that none of your witnesses describe a steep bank. Not a one.


Explain why Edward Paik standing in his parking lot. Out IN FRONT OF his shop. Waves his hand behind his back, directly down a path parallel to Columbia Pike. From his feet to his fingertips Rob. be honest. Where is he pointing? He is pointing directly to Morin's position at the security booth Bob.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/AWSmith1955/edwardpointseastlines.gif

Your Arlington cemetery witnesses Bob, Here is their locations. Explain why wheelhouse cant see through the trees. But your band member who even says her view is blocked by trees. Can see a plane on the "far side' of the Pentagon.


http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/AWSmith1955/arlington-1.jpg

Explain why Edward Paik would even assume that the DOT tower was being repaired the next day because of starboard wing tip contact. When you claim by his testimony that the flight path was nowhere near the tower.


Explain the fast speed described by the witnesses.

Explain the complete absence of flyover witnesses on the east side of the Pentagon while hundreds testify they saw a plane on the impact or west side. At 9 am there are many people on the bridge over the Potomac that time of morning. Not a one saw a plane over the river? Not even from the Pentagon parking lot? or the marina on the river?

Craig is this Jamal, The "new 18th witness"? can you show us where this photo was taken?

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/chainsawmoth/FrustratingFraud/dudepointsnorth.jpg

was it taken here?
http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/AWSmith1955/18thstreetsouthvirginia.jpg

Then why is the CIT flight path behind the cameraman in the opposite direction Jamal, the 18th witness is pointing?
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/chainsawmoth/FrustratingFraud/dudelocation_Jamal_official.jpg
I expect these questions to be answered Rob and Craig. You have only a few days to come up with the answers. Good luck.

Rob. I have highlighted in red some irony in your post. Pot meet Kettle.



I have many more questions I may post later.

[Finnegan]

Mark Roberts (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/lettertorichardgreeneofairamerica) has given a fairly comprehensive essay on his reasons for not participating (to be honest - whatever one thinks about 9/11 - it ain't nice to talk with someone that wants you dead).

[A W Smith]

Mark Roberts (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/lettertorichardgreeneofairamerica) has given a fairly comprehensive essay on his reasons for not participating (to be honest - whatever one thinks about 9/11 - it ain't nice to talk with someone that wants you dead).

I agree. Mark Roberts in his letter to Richard Greene you linked to above makes excellent points. And there is nothing to really debate. They cannot even answer the points I have made and the question I have asked above. It is publicity for CD sales and nothing else. Air America is scraping the bottom of the barrel by exploiting the mentally ill.

[1337m4n]

I think I remember asking CIT for a one-on-one online debate.

They declined, saying basically "there is no debate".

I take it they have now changed their minds about there being no debate?

The thing that blows my mind is: why are WE the enemy? Why do Truthers gloat and slap each other on the butt every time they believe they have "pwned" one of us? I mean, isn't the whole point of this fantasy movement to discover the truth? Or to bring the Bush Administration to justice? Why focus their efforts on us?

Seems these "Truthers" have their priorities waaay out of whack.

[Cobalt]

...
The thing that blows my mind is: why are WE the enemy? Why do Truthers gloat and slap each other on the butt every time they believe they have "pwned" one of us? I mean, isn't the whole point of this fantasy movement to discover the truth? Or to bring the Bush Administration to justice? Why focus their efforts on us?

Seems these "Truthers" have their priorities waaay out of whack.

Cause it's easier to type stuff like "lolpwntggnormwtfbbqkthxbai."

[Thunder]

because we are the "governmant loyalists". we are the ones who defend "their" agenda. we are the ones who protect the "criminals". as far as the truth club is concerned, we are worse then the ones they believe committed 9-11.

[GlennB]

They will say Hani can't fly. He hits the Pentagon in real life, and the only pilots on the planet who can not hit the side of building in the safety of a flight simulator are pilots, and the members of the prestigious, we ain't got no stinkin' theories p4t.

If anyone calls in, remind the challenged pilots of p4t, that a small prop plane pilot entered a 757 simulator on film, and preformed an impact into the Pentagon, first time, zero time in heavies. Oops, only p4t pilots are not as good as rookie pilots, and murdering terrorists! That is a expert status worthy of 9/11 truth groups. Wowzer.

Remind Rob Balsamo the frequency band the radar altimeter works at; it is easy to look up. Then remind Rob Balsamo the number of feet in a nautical mile. Be sure to help these guys out, the are not good at math, or physics, and they have a hard time figuring out in six years what the passengers on flight 93 figured out in minutes. They also use 9/11 events and stir up ideas to sell DVDs for 15 bucks. The truth only cost 15 bucks.
The Pentacon, Citizen Investigation Team, look it up save 15 bucks, think for yourself

Easy dude, chill. Love your posts, mind. So much sense they glow sensorily (if that's a real word) :)

[TC329]

Lmmfao!!!!!!!!

That Big [edited] Roberts Won't Debate Cit But He'll Send An Email Pleading Richard Greene Not To Have Cit & Pft On.

Jref = Cowards

Name calling is not within the limits of civility and attacking the argument. Please cease and desist.

[1337m4n]

Lmmfao!!!!!!!!

That Big [edited] Roberts Won't Debate Cit But He'll Send An Email Pleading Richard Greene Not To Have Cit & Pft On.

Jref = Cowards

As I once said, Aldo is a really, really scary guy. Don't even try to deny it cuz I know you work with him and you know it's true. :D

[DGM]

Lmmfao!!!!!!!!

That Big [edited] Roberts Won't Debate Cit But He'll Send An Email Pleading Richard Greene Not To Have Cit & Pft On.

Jref = Cowards
Last time I looked you were a member here. Calling yourself names? Must be lonely in your world (CIT) that even "truthers" ignore.

[Drudgewire]

Lmmfao!!!!!!!!

That Big [edited] Roberts Won't Debate Cit But He'll Send An Email Pleading Richard Greene Not To Have Cit & Pft On.

Jref = Cowards


http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/rollbarf.gif

Please do not hotlink.

[Bobert]

Lmmfao!!!!!!!!

That Big [edited] Roberts Won't Debate Cit But He'll Send An Email Pleading Richard Greene Not To Have Cit & Pft On.

Jref = Cowards
REPORTED

[16.5]

Lmmfao!!!!!!!!

That Big Pussy[cat] Roberts Won't Debate Cit But He'll Send An Email Pleading Richard Greene Not To Have Cit & Pft On.

Jref = Cowards

Welcome back from your little time out! Say, rather than committing suicide by mod, why don't you address the numerous questions in this very thread.

Anyway, I sure as hell am not going to waste my time with a bunch of boot lickers! Hey, Dom, you know what I'm talking about Dom? lol

[Bobert]

Didnt CIT kick Dom out of the treefort?

[16.5]

Didnt CIT kick Dom out of the treefort?

Nah, he had to do a little boot licking, and they let him back in.

[A W Smith]

Didnt CIT kick Dom out of the treefort?

Guess Dom couldn't score that weed

[Bobert]

Poor guy he dropped CIT from his name.
What a shame.
The trio is now a duo.
I guess that weed was just not good enough.

[A W Smith]

Nah, he had to do a little boot licking, and they let him back in.

Yeah he licked that text right off that last post he had over there real quick, Too bad Bobert caught it. Hows it feel to be the errand boy Dom? Do they laugh at you behind your back when they send you out to go through the drive through?

[Bobert]

Ya Dom you might want to think before you post!
yeah Craig its not like Aldo called him disinfo or anything.........

sorry i'll quit defending CIT.

go kiss some gatekeeping ass.
Dom were you telling Craig to go kiss some gatekeeper "ass"?

[Caustic Logic]

The best people for this show are John Farmer (http://911files.info/blog/index.php) and Adam Larson (Caustic Logic) (http://frustratingfraud.blogspot.com/).
Darn tootin'. I'm not as good in person/real-time as in type however

I'm actually not kidding about the proposal. Why would Air America need "official story" supporters as counteracts, when their CT friends can debunk them almost just as clearly.
I'd be down w/a collaborative effort, but just don't want to see it as "9/11 Truth" vs. "debunkers" where we all know who really wins. They're mis-representin.

Calling in probably won't work for me, but I did try to drop a line with some tips to Green. I want them on-air. But I checked the orignal link by Pomeroo and that show desc. is not on that page now. Has it been cancelled? I haven't checked CIT's forum to-day and I still won't register for PFFFT's.

[jaydeehess]

Originally Posted by Rob
Hi Richard,

As you know by now, we are unable to find much opposition in terms of professional, civil discussion. We have tried Popular Mechanics and the NTSB. So we have decided to scrape the bottom of the barrel and invite internet "debunkers" who spend their days and nights obsessed with our work(although now they are using the excuse they dont want to give us any "attention" when a debate challenge arises). I phoned "pomoroo" on the linked thread below and he started a thread looking for "opposition", but as you can see, not many are stepping up to the plate and after reading through the thread, you can see why it is "scraping the bottom of the barrel" as its mostly ad homs and personal attacks.

If no one does step up to the plate, we can read through the thread on air to show the world how our "opposition" behaves, and we can address the few arguments that are pointed out in the thread. You can find it here...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=113627

Regards,
Rob

Over a year ago, before Robby banned me for daring to do so, I suggested that he create an unemotional, technical paper outlining all the problems with the DFDR data as opposed to the accepted flightpath of Flight 77 and submit it for publication ina mainstream aviation or science magazine such as Aviation and Space Technology or Scientific American.

I suggest that the CIT do the same.

Banter and blather on the internet and radio is simply not going to get the word out for them. Neither is a talk show the place to debate technical issuses. How does one argue the math and physics ignorance they display in a talk format? Does the guest get a chalkboard to use?:boggled:

To my mind, that is why no one wants to do this with him. All he wants is an arguement not a serious, technical debate.

[realitybites]

Well if Rob is forced to read through this thread during the show, I'd like to make a couple of shout outs.

1. To Mom: Hi!

2. To all the authorities and major media outlets that CIT has presented its evidence to: Thanks for your continued suppression of the irrefutable evidence of this world-altering crime. Your monies should be directly deposited shortly after you receive your "economic stimulus check".

And last but not least, to the very members of CIT and PFT: We all look forward to the day in the very near future when the countless hours you've spent over the past 5+ years "researching", "interviewing", and "compiling" the evidence for this monumental cover-up is actually noticed and taken seriously by, well... anyone.

::: crosses fingers :::

.... Any day now.

[Caustic Logic]

Good questions! Corrections tho: the witness pictured was on 18th street, has not been ID'd and will supp. be in the Researcher's Edition. His path is said to confirm Jamal's. Both were south of the plane they saw 'over some trees.' Niether one clarifies tey mean directly over the trees rather than across FoV above the trees. There are no supporting witnesses who saw this path to their south 'over some trees.' The official path is also north, but 1600 feet. Craig says neither could see the plane that far away. 1600 feet. Or so, given the ambiguities of FDR INS and such...

sry, was meant to respond to A Smith on prev page

[Drudgewire]

But I checked the orignal link by Pomeroo and that show desc. is not on that page now. Has it been cancelled?

There's no mention of a Thursday show at all. That's right, the NWO works fast suckaz!! :cool:

[pomeroo]

That's not all you forgot. What about a professional wiseass? Shows like that always need one, and I am the undisputed champeen professionaliest wiseass on JREForum. I offer my services.


I think you would add a great deal to the show. I prefer your wiseassery to their idiocy any day.



Wait. Thursday the 15th? I'll be schmoozing with Hillary out here in Los Angeles at that time. Next time though.


Keep your hand on your wallet.

[ElMondoHummus]

Ron? Will there be a podcast or other sort of recording available for later listening? I'm not going to be around either a computer or a radio that night at that time, not unless the movie theater will let me bring one in. :)

[1337m4n]

Yeah he licked that text right off that last post he had over there real quick, Too bad Bobert caught it. Hows it feel to be the errand boy Dom? Do they laugh at you behind your back when they send you out to go through the drive through?

Join us Dominick.

Craig and Aldo, they just don't understand. They don't see things the way you do. They don't understand your true inner genius.

Join us.

[pomeroo]

Hey! Speaking as a far left loon, I resent that remark. Nobody needs to invent crap to discredit Bush, that's why the Truthers annoy me so much.


I would never want to offend you, Brainache. My talent for giving offense is so great, however, that I don't even have to make an effort.

Seriously, that's one of the problems with Bush Derangement Syndrome. People afflicted with it slander him reflexively without stopping to consider if they're making themselves look ridiculous. If Bush speaks out against cancer, it really isn't necessary to put in a few good words for the disease.

[pomeroo]

Lmmfao!!!!!!!!

That Big Pussy[cat] Roberts Won't Debate Cit But He'll Send An Email Pleading Richard Greene Not To Have Cit & Pft On.

Jref = Cowards


The cowards are the bogus pilots who have refused all debate offers. We learned from recent threads on this forum the reason why they are reluctant to submit their mad fantasies to critical scrutiny. 'Hardfire' offers the opportunity to present videos, to show plausible flight paths--oops! I forgot: you can't produce a flight path.

[pomeroo]

Ron? Will there be a podcast or other sort of recording available for later listening? I'm not going to be around either a computer or a radio that night at that time, not unless the movie theater will let me bring one in. :)


I don't know. Nobody connected with the show has contacted me.

[A W Smith]

I don't know. Nobody connected with the show has contacted me.

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/AWSmith1955/suesimmonsWTF.jpg


I dont even see a schedule for upcoming shows!

[ElMondoHummus]

I don't know. Nobody connected with the show has contacted me.

Oh, crap... Ron! Did that Mexican wrestler intercept that call? Because dammit, Ron, I swear, if it turns out that some guy in a Luche Libre mask appears as "Ron Wick" (sic) representing the rationalists on the show tomorrow, I'm gonna hold you responsible!! Imagine! Clowns vs. clowns! We'd never live it down!

Christ!... all you had to do was run the guy one damn block, and the fat :rule10 woulda dropped from a heart attack, but nooooooooo! It's too fashionable to have operatives stalking you, stealing your checks and ruining your life, 'cept in your case, it wasn't a bunch of trenchcoated men, but some huge weirdo wearing a Luchador mask with chalupa stains around the mouth, but hey! Pomeroo's got to have his own damn "secret agent" stalker and to hell with everyone else...



(For those of you who don't know where this diversion came from: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3610887#post3610887. Just 'cause I felt like it. So there! :p)

[pomeroo]

Oh, crap... Ron! Did that Mexican wrestler intercept that call? Because dammit, Ron, I swear, if it turns out that some guy in a Luche Libre mask appears as "Ron Wick" (sic) representing the rationalists on the show tomorrow, I'm gonna hold you responsible!! Imagine! Clowns vs. clowns! We'd never live it down!

Christ!... all you had to do was run the guy one damn block, and the fat :rule10 woulda dropped from a heart attack,



Hey, the sumbitch is quicker than he looks!




but nooooooooo! It's too fashionable to have operatives stalking you, stealing your checks and ruining your life, 'cept in your case, it wasn't a bunch of trenchcoated men, but some huge weirdo wearing a Luchador mask with chalupa stains around the mouth, but hey! Pomeroo's got to have his own damn "secret agent" stalker and to hell with everyone else...



What? You're accusing me of being selfish??

Trust me, pal, I am willing to share. I am so willing to share. :mad:



(For those of you who don't know where this diversion came from: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3610887#post3610887. Just 'cause I felt like it. So there! :p)

[Drudgewire]

http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/rollbarf.gif

Please do not hotlink.

I own the site. :(


ETA: Yes, I run a pro wrestling site. :o

At least we've been threatened with lawsuits a lot.

[theauthor]

Guess Dom couldn't score that weed

REPORTED

[A W Smith]

REPORTED
Good luck with that :) I suppose you reported Drudgewires own personal smiley too? what are you on a campaign?

[pomeroo]

I just received another call from Rob Balsamo. He was quite civil and impressed me with his sincerity in wanting a substantive debate on the FDR and related matters. I agreed to apologize for lumping him in with Ranke and Marquis and promised I would continue my effort to find opponents for tomorrow's CLOUT.

What can I say? The people here who are qualified to discuss the subject should step up to the plate. There is no satisfactory reason for missing this opportunity to address a fairly large audience.

[WildCat]

I just received another call from Rob Balsamo. He was quite civil and impressed me with his sincerity in wanting a substantive debate on the FDR and related matters. I agreed to apologize for lumping him in with Ranke and Marquis and promised I would continue my effort to find opponents for tomorrow's CLOUT.

What can I say? The people here who are qualified to discuss the subject should step up to the plate. There is no satisfactory reason for missing this opportunity to address a fairly large audience.
With all due respect, he blew his opportunity to debate here and his minions are apparently unable to debate either. He doesn't want to debate, he wants an unchallenged diatribe.

Of course, he could alwayd open up his own forum for debate but as we all know he's too much of a coward to do that.

[A W Smith]

I just received another call from Rob Balsamo. He was quite civil and impressed me with his sincerity in wanting a substantive debate on the FDR and related matters. I agreed to apologize for lumping him in with Ranke and Marquis and promised I would continue my effort to find opponents for tomorrow's CLOUT.

What can I say? The people here who are qualified to discuss the subject should step up to the plate. There is no satisfactory reason for missing this opportunity to address a fairly large audience.

Ron;
if he wanted to debate he would have opened up his pft forums to the pilots and crash scene investigators, technicians etc that are on this forum. But as soon as you disagree with his conspiracy, you are gone. You cannot debate numbers and equations or aerial photos and paths over a phone. And he Knows that! Theres nothing to debate, the math does not work for him. Its a publicity stunt. If they themselves were convinced, They should be contacting authorities not talk show hosts.

[Bobert]

REPORTED
REPORTED!!!

[gc051360]

Ron;
if he wanted to debate he would have opened up his pft forums to the pilots and crash scene investigators, technicians etc that are on this forum. But as soon as you disagree with his conspiracy, you are gone. You cannot debate numbers and equations or aerial photos and paths over a phone. And he Knows that! Theres nothing to debate, the math does not work for him. Its a publicity stunt. If they themselves were convinced, They should be contacting authorities not talk show hosts.

Why not bring that up to him, though?

You can't just let his foolishness go unchallenged.

[Reheat]

Well, for those of you who were listening to

http://www.wethepeopleradionetwork.com/

which is a prelude to tomorrow night's program, but as expected I got cut short. My questions were interrupted by commercials and a political figure on a rant replaced me on the call in schedule.

Of course, I got accused of being a gubmint shill with the usual witness preemption of all other issue and then the commercial break.

So much for the other side of the coin. It's a joke.

ETA: Is it any wonder that I don't want to travel somewhere or even call in again to one of these sites that's willing to host these jerks?

[bje]

I just received another call from Rob Balsamo. He was quite civil and impressed me with his sincerity in wanting a substantive debate on the FDR and related matters. I agreed to apologize for lumping him in with Ranke and Marquis and promised I would continue my effort to find opponents for tomorrow's CLOUT.

Don't be fooled, Ron. His "sincerity" is phony. Balsamo evades inconvenient questions and will do so on the air. Just like Ranke and Aldo. I have to agree fully with Mark Roberts on this matter and not give them the time of day.

[16.5]

I just received another call from Rob Balsamo. He was quite civil and impressed me with his sincerity in wanting a substantive debate on the FDR and related matters.

O'RLY? Did that mutt apologize for this:

"So we have decided to scrape the bottom of the barrel and invite internet "debunkers" who spend their days and nights obsessed with our work (although now they are using the excuse they dont want to give us any "attention" when a debate challenge arises)."

Tell Rob to post his math. We will accept nothing less. He will be ignored until he can explain his calculations.

Civil my ass. Sincere? Tell that incompetent SOB to support his flight path.

[nicepants]

It's lose-lose with these conspiracy nuts. Over at LCF (http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/273663/2/)


If we are nuts and irrational and illogical we are, why do you continue to do bother with us?

Why can't you find one of your "expert" debunkers to come on and debate us on the issue?

Gravy who is too much of a coward to debate us?

So, if we aren't worried about them, we shouldn't debate them, but if we don't debate them then we're cowards. (Heads we win, tails you lose)

Another fine example of distored logic, brought to you by the letters C, I, and T.

[Drudgewire]

So, if we aren't worried about them, we shouldn't debate them, but if we don't debate them then we're cowards. (Heads we win, tails you lose)

Another fine example of distored logic, brought to you by the letters C, I, and T.

It's a lot easier to lie to yourself in such a fashion than admit you're such a joke even those who used to smack you around as a hobby have gotten bored with it.

Air America and the truth movement deserve each other, since they've both been non-issues for well over a year now. :p

[Bobert]

Poor Aldo didnt get an invite to the show.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[DavidJames]

The time for perpetual, futile, and unproductive debates is over. It is time for the Truth Club to prevent their evidence to a court of law.

The fact that the Truth Club prefers to debate, make Youtube videos, and "confront" politicians, rather then bring their evidence to a court...is very telling.Well said and summarizes my feelings. These guys are attention whores. They have taken up the CT career path and will do whatever it takes to drum up funds/attention to further their new careers. Of course "whatever it takes" doesn't include any actual attempts at achieving justice or vetting their "data" in a way to validate it.

There is a reason you don't find to many real experts debating quacks in the media. Science and engineering can't be "debated" on a TV, radio or Internet broadcast. The "winner" becomes whoever can talk the longest and loudest or who comes off with the best personality, makes the funniest jokes or has the cleverest sound bites.

[Drudgewire]

Well said and summarizes my feelings. These guys are attention whores. They have taken up the CT career path and will do whatever it takes to drum up funds/attention to further their new careers. Of course "whatever it takes" doesn't include any actual attempts at achieving justice or vetting their "data" in a way to validate it.

There is a reason you don't find to many real experts debating quacks in the media. Science and engineering can't be "debated" on a TV, radio or Internet broadcast. The "winner" becomes whoever can talk the longest and loudest or who comes off with the best personality, makes the funniest jokes or has the cleverest sound bites.

That's why Shermer will never do it again.

[nicepants]

Poor Aldo didnt get an invite to the show.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Given Aldo & Dom's propensity for angered outbursts of foul language, I think that was probably a wise decision. (Although it would make for some very humorous sound bytes!)

[16.5]

Well, just popped over to Loose Change Forums. From the Wobbly Third Leg of the CIT:

"Seems the Sewer rats think Farmer & Larson are their best bet......

Wait aren't Farmer & Larson 9/11 Truthers???

Why would the Sewer Rats pick them as their best opposition to CIT & PFT?"

I swear, sometimes these twoofers are dumber than a sack of hammers.

Let me make this simple: even other Truthers despise you knuckleheads because your theory (well it's not even a theory now, is it boys?) is so ridiculous. Your witnesses all say that the plane hit the Pentagon. That coupled with the fact that you guys are INCAPABLE of responding to the requests for your flight path make you a laughingstock.

[Bobert]

aaaaaah the widdle children are all starved for a widdle attention
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/277689/1/#new
CIT is up to their old tricks again
We will be making a major announcement
They figured out how to do math?
See-saw Analogy in high tech CGI?
Ground breaking NEW evidence to be revealed folks.
LOL YET AGAIN with the term "evidence" yet I don't think Craig knows what this really means.
Time to bring that "evidence" to the proper authorities.
Its been over a year since you promised this time to deliver!
FRAUDS.
We ain't playin'!
Ok word cuz!
Time to round up the homies and blast some fools!
Its funny when Craig tries to act hard core like his ghetto buddy Aldo.
Its cute to see Aldo talking like he is big and bad and equating investigators with criminal street gangs
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/single/?p=71807&t=263367
22205 is a true investigangsta.
Aldo seriously brother time to up those meds.

[ElMondoHummus]

Hey, the sumbitch is quicker than he looks!






What? You're accusing me of being selfish??

Trust me, pal, I am willing to share. I am so willing to share. :mad:


Well, my sports car isn't Italian, so you're screwed there. :p

Plus, I know how to make a burrito as big as my head, so I gots the powerz of distraction abilities. :D Sumuvbitch can't run fast while gobbling down a huge, sloppy burrito (sour cream, xtra cheese, lotsa beef...). And God knows he'll stop for one! You seen him lately? He's got littler fat luchadors in orbit around him.

[TC329]

i hope you girls all tune in tonight.

its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement and definitely a low point for you bush administration supporters. most definitely.

[DGM]

i hope you girls all tune in tonight.

its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement and definitely a low point for you bush administration supporters. most definitely.
Why?

NO ONE LISTENS TO YOU

[DavidJames]

i hope you girls all tune in tonight.

its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement and definitely a low point for you bush administration supporters. most definitely.
Instead of seeking justice you guys are flapping your gums on the radio. That is, by definition, a tactic of frauds and charlatans.

[DGM]

Instead of seeking justice you guys are flapping your gums on the radio. That is, by definition, a tactic of frauds and charlatans.
Flapping their gums on a radio station that only they listen to. This is pathetic beyond belief.

[dudalb]

Why?

NO ONE LISTENS TO YOU

ANd they are on a radio network with as minimal an audience as you get on "real" radio.
And I have a feeling that a lot of the few listeners AA has will tune out as soon as the conspriacy crap starts.
TC329's bragging about what a great victory the Twoof movement will have tonight reminds me of the Black Knight in "Monty Python and The Holy Grail" screaming "Come Back And I will bite you to death" after Arthur has sliced off his arms and legs....

[HyJinX]

<snip> its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement <snip>

why is that? Is tonight the night you gals are finally deciding on what recipes to use in the 9/11 Truth Cookbook? Exciting indeed!

If you think that pontificating your ridiculous canards to a group of like minded individuals is success...well...good luck with that.

[TC329]

Why?

NO ONE LISTENS TO YOU


Yeah no one listens to CIT or PFT.

That's why this board dedicates so much of its time to attacking them because no one else is paying any attention........

lol

wonder how long til the administration moves this post?

oh yeah I love being suspended for PROVING the FBI bombed the WTC in 93 that was a good one.

[16.5]

i hope you girls all tune in tonight.

its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement and definitely a low point for you bush administration supporters. most definitely.

Dom, Dom, Dom....

I notice that Aldo again contradicts you. You say that Farmer and FF are Truthers, Aldo says you are wrong. Man, he still pissed at you for saying that he is a bootlicker?

It is going to be funny tonight when your fellow Truthers get on the line and tear you all a new one.

But perhaps I've said too much?

[DGM]

Yeah no one listens to CIT or PFT.

That's why this board dedicates so much of its time to attacking them because no one else is paying any attention........

lol

wonder how long til the administration moves this post?

oh yeah I love being suspended for PROVING the FBI bombed the WTC in 93 that was a good one.
I got banned from your forum for ........ Actually I never did find out why. (I do know I did not break any rules)

[beachnut]

Yeah no one listens to CIT or PFT.

That's why this board dedicates so much of its time to attacking them because no one else is paying any attention........

lol

wonder how long til the administration moves this post?

oh yeah I love being suspended for PROVING the FBI bombed the WTC in 93 that was a good one.
You have no evidence of anything. Are you the one with the plane below the wire stuff? Funny stuff.

Oops, that took 10 seconds.
You are right, you are a waste of time since you have zero evidence. But you are a good example of poor research, faulty logic, and other bad habit leading to false conclusions. Wait, you have no conclusion, Rob will not let you make any. cool

[TC329]

Dom, Dom, Dom....

I notice that Aldo again contradicts you. You say that Farmer and FF are Truthers, Aldo says you are wrong. Man, he still pissed at you for saying that he is a bootlicker?

It is going to be funny tonight when your fellow Truthers get on the line and tear you all a new one.

But perhaps I've said too much?


Farmer and Larson aren't truthers.

Who is FF?

I never called Aldo a bootlicker please stop making things up.

oh please i hope they do call in tonight. please please please call in adam and john (if i could only be the shill pickering was) farmer.

said too much?

lol

[TC329]

You have no evidence of anything. Are you the one with the plane below the wire stuff? Funny stuff.


yeah surveillance drones witnessed by multiple people can't fly at low altitudes. and you're supposed to be some sort of aviation expert?

LMMFAO!!!!!

[celestrin]

Well, just popped over to Loose Change Forums. From the Wobbly Third Leg of the CIT:

"Seems the Sewer rats think Farmer & Larson are their best bet......

Wait aren't Farmer & Larson 9/11 Truthers???

Why would the Sewer Rats pick them as their best opposition to CIT & PFT?"

I swear, sometimes these twoofers are dumber than a sack of hammers.

Let me make this simple: even other Truthers despise you knuckleheads because your theory (well it's not even a theory now, is it boys?) is so ridiculous. Your witnesses all say that the plane hit the Pentagon. That coupled with the fact that you guys are INCAPABLE of responding to the requests for your flight path make you a laughingstock.
Another case of troofer reading comprehension capabilities. For one thing, there's a difference between suggesting the best candidates for some particular show and best representatives of some group of people, TC.

Unlike Robbie and his gang of guides, Farmer knows his addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, and when you tell Larson to turn to his 3 o'clock position, he's actually going to turn to his right. If you tried the same on Ranke, he'd just collapse into a perpetual spin (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread352389/pg1). Why would anyone need rocket scientists, engineers with degrees or real pilots to take on someone who's not able to multiply or doesn't comprehend orientation basics? I had taught 10 year old kids, who had better math and orientation skills than Robbie and Lyte. I had taught 14-15 year olds, who had better grasp of physics than those two.

And while I have your attention, TC, perhaps you'll finally choose to address these questions before you SBM. I have a hunch, Lyte won't address them on air.
how do you separate those [witnesses] who actually manage to tell it like it really happened, and those who are adamant their memory is correct, but don't really remember it right? How do you separate a real memory from a false memory? Do you have anything more substantial than gut feelings?

Where do you turn to, to separate real memories from false ones?

So far, you've only managed to turn to other (cherrypicked) witnesses, therefore other real or false memories. Where does the cycle end?

[Drudgewire]

i hope you girls all tune in tonight.

its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement and definitely a low point for you bush administration supporters. most definitely.

I like potato salad.

[Jonnyclueless]

Ah yes the magical silent drones which prove somehow that there wasn't a commercial airliner that crashed there despite all the evidence that proves it so. Here we go again...

And you wonder why no one takes you kids seriously...

[johnny karate]

i hope you girls all tune in tonight.

its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement and definitely a low point for you bush administration supporters. most definitely.

Unfortunately, I will be unable to tune in this evening. However, I will be reading The New York Times and watching CNN tomorrow morning. I'm sure your "big night" will be the top story.

[DGM]

Unfortunately, I will be unable to tune in this evening. However, I will be reading The New York Times and watching CNN tomorrow morning. I'm sure your "big night" will be the top story.
I would have to listen on line because BOSTON is not a big enough market to warrant a station.:rolleyes:

[TC329]

Ah yes the magical silent drones which prove somehow that there wasn't a commercial airliner that crashed there despite all the evidence that proves it so. Here we go again...

And you wonder why no one takes you kids seriously...


this is why i never acknowledge you mr. clueless:

1) you have the most accurate name in all of these forums

2) all you do is make **** up

[realitybites]

i hope you girls all tune in tonight.

its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement and definitely a low point for you bush administration supporters. most definitely.

Are we talking Loose Change: 2nd Edition Big...?

Loose Change: 2nd Edition - Recut Big...?

Loose Change: Final Cut Big...?

Loose Change: Final Cut In Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Big...?

Define "big".

Oh, and you've revealed your tell again. I would venture that over half of the posters in this sub-forum are Democrats. Unlike you, however, they do not let their disdain for Bush cloud their ability to use logic and rational thought.

I would suggest taking your next big announcement to the same people you took your previous evidence to. Start with the line, "I know you laughed and ignored us before, but look what we have NOW!!!"

That new investigation will be under way before ya' know it.

[Bobert]

i hope you girls all tune in tonight.[quote]
I used to use that line when I was 12.
[QUOTE]its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement and definitely a low point for you bush administration supporters. most definitely.[/
A year later when I was 13 I used that tactic.
BTW you do realize Dom that NOT EVERYONE is a Bush supporter, right?

[Bobert]

Flapping their gums on a radio station that only they listen to. This is pathetic beyond belief.

This will be carried in a lot of majo markets granted it is AM radio BUT alot of markets.

My hope is that either the host or the callers are going to call them on their BS.

I really dont think it is going to go as well for them as they think.
I will put my monthly NWO bonus where my mouth is!

[gc051360]

It's going to be a big night for the truth movement?

Alright. Call me when the revolution starts.

[Bobert]

Geez I just realized why are we even addressing TC?
He is no longer part of the CIT Treefort AND he and aldo werent even invited to be on the show!
Dom is the CIT errandboy

[DGM]

This will be carried in a lot of majo markets granted it is AM radio BUT alot of markets.

My hope is that either the host or the callers are going to call them on their BS.

I really dont think it is going to go as well for them as they think.
I will put my monthly NWO bonus where my mouth is!
Major markets? Boston is a major market and if I'm lucky I can pull it in on the closest station (In Springfield MA). Air America is by no means a major force to be reckoned with. I personally don't know a single person that listens. Have you checked the listings for tonight? The last time I checked this sham is not even listed as being on. This is a joke of epic (not really) proportions.

[beachnut]

Yeah no one listens to CIT or PFT.
I doubt that. There must be a few really dumb folk who are unable to see your stuff is false. Some of those will mature, and learn physics and math.

How is that 11.2 G error going? Even truthers have corrected your p4t stuff; any more non-paths you want to look at?

[Bobert]

Ok so Aldo photo shops a pic depicting a plane flying over the Pentagon.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/single/?p=72332&t=277689
This yet another example of how he will play games with a horrific event to attract attention to himself.
Did he not get enough attention as a kid?
I am pleased to see a truther step in to call him on it though
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/single/?p=72414&t=277689
Aldo, I wish you guys well on today's radio show revelation.

I have to wonder though about the benefit of using 'faked' images?

MM
Then Aldo responds acknowledging that this is nothing but a game to him.
Well it is clear that it is a photoshopped image. It is simply for sh*ts and giggles.

Just sending a little hint everybody's way. That image is in no way supposed to represent anything scientific.
First though Aldo you actually have to KNOW SOMETHING about science.
GED doesn't count.
I am sure the families of the victims of flight 77 would love to know what you think happened to their loved ones and they may not be to pleased to see you are mocking them for
***** and giggles.
LOL I just realized that the LCF mod lookup is more concerned about half naked pics of men then he is Aldo mocking the dead
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/single/?p=72434&t=277689 (http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/single/?p=72434&t=277689)
all the congratulations aside, the pictures of "nicepants" are making this look like a jref thread... do we want that?

not a warning, just a suggestion.

[dudalb]

I would have to listen on line because BOSTON is not a big enough market to warrant a station.:rolleyes:


.
That Air America has problems getting on in Boston, one of the most politically liberal cities in the US, is a good sign of how badly they have failed.

[beachnut]

Farmer ... aren't truthers.
lol
He is as bad as you are. He is a truther with a special ability to screw things up bigger than you. At least you just misinterpreted everything, Farmer goes out of his way to try to calculate his way into stupid ideas.

But wait your drone fantasy is like Framer, over thinking and pure dumb ideas stuff.
yeah surveillance drones witnessed by multiple people can't fly at low altitudes. and you're supposed to be some sort of aviation expert?

LMMFAO!!!!!That is pure dumb. The idea the drone was under the wires a few feet above her car; on the same day as 93 impacts and a Falcon 20 is asked to look! You lack facts, you lack evidence. Good job, expert witnesses investigator.
Under wires. Good for you. You have taken 9/11 events and found pure stupid ideas, and you use other people to hide behind.

You do not need an aviation expert to know your ideas are pure fantasy. Non-paths, 11.2 Gs, math and physics errors! What next?

The people saw a Falcon 20 on 9/11. You have turned it into a drone flying under wires. Your paranoid ideas are not even good fiction.

[jhunter1163]

I got banned at LCF for suggesting that Dom should ask his doctor whether Paxil was right for him.

I still think he should ask that question.

[16.5]

I never called Aldo a bootlicker please stop making things up.

(if i could only be the shill pickering was) farmer.

I am going to show you Truthers something. How to admit you were wrong.

I made a mistake.

I suggested that Dom called Aldo a bootlicker.

I was wrong.

Dom called Lyte an ass kisser.

Sorry.

ps: Russell is now a shill? Just for calling the CIT out for misrepresenting the facts and misleading your star witnesses? Wow.

[nicepants]

i hope you girls all tune in tonight.

its going to be quite a big night for the 9/11 truth movement and definitely a low point for you bush administration supporters. most definitely.

Tell us, TC...what SPECIFIC, MEASURABLE achievements will result from this "big night"?

ETA: Like others, I'm not a Bush Administration supporter....there are plenty of things that Bush & his administration are doing/have done wrong, I don't need to make up more to try to make him look worse.

[WildCat]

.
That Air America has problems getting on in Boston, one of the most politically liberal cities in the US, is a good sign of how badly they have failed.
Their station here in Chicago is WCPT 820AM, a 5,000 watt station that goes off the air at 8:15pm tonight, just before CIT's big event!

:dl:

[Dog Town]

Big Night?
You mean Earrrrrrly morning. It's on 1-3am in LA. Woooooo Eeeeeee.
http://2005.progressivetalk1150.com/pages/Progressive_Talk_AM_1150_Broadcast_Schedule.html?f eed=119597&article=379167

[pomeroo]

From Richard Greene of CLOUT:

I will take anyone with credibility on between 9 and 11 pm Eastern. The call in number is 866 303 2270. Pls provide the name or names and bios. I have not seen any of your attempts to contact the show. Richard

[pomeroo]

http://airamerica.com/clout/ (http://airamerica.com/clout/)

Albuquerque-Santa Fe NM KABQ-AM 1350
Albuquerque-Santa Fe NM KTRC-AM 1260
Albuquerque-Santa Fe NM KVOT-AM 1340
Anchorage AK KUDO-AM 1080
Boston (Manchester) VT WKVT-AM 1490
Buffalo NY WWKB-AM 1520
Burlington-Plattsburgh VT WDEV-AM 550
Charleston-Huntington KY WCMI-AM 1340
Charlottesville VA WVAX-AM 1450
Chicago IL WCPT-AM 820
Columbia, SC SC WOIC-AM 1230
Columbus, OH OH WVKO-AM 1580
Denver CO KKZN-AM 760
Detroit MI WDTW-AM 1310
Detroit MI WLBY-AM 1290
Eugene OR KBBR-AM 1340
Eureka CA KGOE-AM 1480
Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-Battle Crk MI WTKG-AM 1230
Greenville-Sprtnbrg-Ashvl-Andrsn NC WPEK-AM 880
Johnstown-Altoona-State College PA WBLF-AM 970
Los Angeles CA KSZL-AM 1230
Los Angeles CA KTLK-AM 1150
Madison WI WXXM-FM 92.1
Miami-Ft. Lauderdale FL WINZ-AM 940
Minneapolis-St. Paul MN KTNF-AM 950
Minneapolis-St. Paul MN WWWI-AM 1270
Missoula MT KLCY-AM 930
Monterey-Salinas CA KRXA-AM 540
New York NY WWRL-AM 1600
Paducah-Cp Gird-Harrisbg-Mt Vrn IL WINI-AM 1420
Palm Springs CA KPTR-AM 1340
Philadelphia NJ WTAA-AM 1490
Phoenix (Prescott) AZ KPHX-AM 1480
Pittsburgh PA WPTT-AM 1360
Portland OR KKEE-AM 1230
Portland OR KPOJ-AM 620
Raleigh-Durham (Fayetteville) NC WCHL-AM 1360
Rapid City WY KYTI-FM 93.7
Reno NV KJFK-AM 1230
Rochester NY WROC-AM 950
Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto CA KSAC-AM 1240
San Diego MX XEPE-AM 1700
San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose CA KKGN-AM 960
Santa Barbara-Snta Mria-Sn Lu Ob CA KIST-AM 1340
Santa Barbara-Snta Mria-Sn Lu Ob CA KYNS-AM 1340
Seattle-Tacoma WA KPTK-AM 1090
Seattle-Tacoma WA KBAI-AM 930
Spokane WA KPTQ-AM 1280
Springfield-Holyoke MA WHMP-AM 1400
Springfield-Holyoke MA WHMQ-AM 1240
Springfield-Holyoke MA WHNP-AM 1600
Syracuse NY WNYY-AM 1470
Tampa-St. Petersburg (Sarasota) FL WDCF-AM 1350
Tampa-St. Petersburg (Sarasota) FL WTAN-AM 1340
Tucson (Sierra Vista) AZ KJLL-AM 1330
Washington, DC (Hagerstown) DC WWRC-AM 1260
Washington, DC (Hagerstown) MD WWWB-AM 820
Washington, DC (Hagerstown) DC WWWT-AM 1500
Washington, DC (Hagerstown) VA WWWT-FM 107.7
West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce FL WJNO-AM 1290

[JamesB]

I will take anyone with credibility on between 9 and 11 pm Eastern

Then what is Barrett doing on?

[Brainster]

From Richard Greene of CLOUT:

I will take anyone with credibility on between 9 and 11 pm Eastern.

So he's not going to have on Rob and Kev and Craig?

ETA: Curse you, CIA Shill!

[jhunter1163]

New York NY WWRL-AM 1600

Isn't that up there by the highway advisories and stuff?

"Traffic is backed up 20 minutes on the Lincoln Tunnel *it's an inside job* and 25 minutes inbound on the GWB *I hate Bush!!!!!*....."

[bje]

From Richard Greene of CLOUT:

I will take anyone with credibility on between 9 and 11 pm Eastern....

Richard

Oh boy. Now they get to decide just WHO has credibility. They're getting very nervous, IMO.

On another matter, I have asked Balsamo in an e-mail to apologize to the victims' families live, on air, while he has the opportunity with a national audience. I know Ranke and Barrett won't, but Balsamo may screw up the courage knowing how badly their unsupported claims and nonsense about the Pentagon attack affect those directly affected by that horrific event.

Stay tuned.

[pomeroo]

The rationalists here have a lot to say. Let's call in and say it!

[Brainster]

http://airamerica.com/clout/ (http://airamerica.com/clout/)

Phoenix (Prescott) AZ KPHX-AM 1480

Let me point out that you might want to check your local AA affiliate to see if the show is on; the Phoenix station (http://www.1480kphx.com/DynamoPages.php?PID=16) does not have Clout, for example.

[Bobert]

Big Night?
You mean Earrrrrrly morning. It's on 1-3am in LA. Woooooo Eeeeeee.
http://2005.progressivetalk1150.com/pages/Progressive_Talk_AM_1150_Broadcast_Schedule.html?f eed=119597&article=379167

Oh my and I thought that the CIT was going to actually be on a mainstream show.

[boloboffin]

Another reason to not join these people on the air: Rob Balsamo is listed as a co-producer. If any of us join the debate, he will be a successful co-producer.

ETA: I'm sorry, pom. On this, I simply disagree. You of all people should understand the ins and outs of producing something for the air. If you were going to get credit, that's one thing. But I don't know that you'd want Air America on your resume anyway. :)

[boloboffin]

aaaaaah the widdle children are all starved for a widdle attention
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/277689/1/#new
CIT is up to their old tricks again

They figured out how to do math?
See-saw Analogy in high tech CGI?

LOL YET AGAIN with the term "evidence" yet I don't think Craig knows what this really means.
Time to bring that "evidence" to the proper authorities.
Its been over a year since you promised this time to deliver!
FRAUDS.

Ok word cuz!
Time to round up the homies and blast some fools!
Its funny when Craig tries to act hard core like his ghetto buddy Aldo.
Its cute to see Aldo talking like he is big and bad and equating investigators with criminal street gangs
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/single/?p=71807&t=263367

Aldo seriously brother time to up those meds.

At DU, Craig-I-guess-it-was was intimating that he's got flyover witnesses. Yawn.

[theauthor]

I am surprised by the attitude here. I would be classed as a truther since I have concerns about elements of 9/11, but I too think that CIT and PFT are peddling garbage. I am tempted to ring in myself but I don't have the knowledge some people here have.

All respect to pomeroo for taking a stand, and shame on Mark Roberts for sending a begging letter rather than appearing on the show and debunking them.

[beachnut]

I am surprised by the attitude here. I would be classed as a truther since I have concerns about elements of 9/11, but I too think that CIT and PFT are peddling garbage. I am tempted to ring in myself but I don't have the knowledge some people here have.

All respect to pomeroo for taking a stand, and shame on Mark Roberts for sending a begging letter rather than appearing on the show and debunking them.
You talk trash like a truther. Why does Mark have to do anything. These people have zero evidence. You can call in, as you say, and debate them.

You are talking trash! No one has to call in and oppose stupid ideas which anyone can debunk.

These 9/11 truth believers and these frauds have no evidence; do you? It has been 6 years.

[Calcas]

So, what's the link again to listen?

[Bobert]

and shame on Mark Roberts for sending a begging letter rather than appearing on the show and debunking them.

Did you read the letter?

[Mr.Herbert]

I have XM radio... is it on there? I am in Boston and we don't have Air America.

[Bobert]

So, what's the link again to listen?
http://airamerica.com/clout

[Brainster]

I am surprised by the attitude here. I would be classed as a truther since I have concerns about elements of 9/11, but I too think that CIT and PFT are peddling garbage. I am tempted to ring in myself but I don't have the knowledge some people here have.

All respect to pomeroo for taking a stand, and shame on Mark Roberts for sending a begging letter rather than appearing on the show and debunking them.

There are arguments to be made both ways on this issue. I generally don't agree with letting nonsense stand unrefuted, but:

1. Barrett's involvement is a deal-killer for me. I do not believe in debating anything with a Holocaust denier, even if the topic is not the Holocaust.

2. The PentaCon theory is easily the second most marginal of 9-11 Denial theories, surpassed only by the "no-planer" theories.

3. The audience for Air America's Clout is miniscule; as I pointed out above it is not even carried on many AA affiliates. If this was a BBC show or someplace that actually had an audience it would be different.

4. Speaking for myself only, SLC imposes an oddball responsibility. We are the second highest traffic site on 9-11 topics (behind only 9-11 Blogger). Because so many "Truthers" read our site daily, if we pan something, we ironically give it credibility. Hence we (mostly) don't cover the no-planers and other weird theories.

I have no problems with Ron doing the show, or with other debunkers or even "Truthers" who disagree with the PentaCon theory phoning in. It just doesn't work for me.

[Brainster]

Oh, crap. This is going to suck.

ROTFLMAO! Barbara Honegger! I take it back, this is going to be great!

[bje]

I am surprised by the attitude here. I would be classed as a truther since I have concerns about elements of 9/11, but I too think that CIT and PFT are peddling garbage. I am tempted to ring in myself but I don't have the knowledge some people here have.

All respect to pomeroo for taking a stand, and shame on Mark Roberts for sending a begging letter rather than appearing on the show and debunking them.

Do you want to paint it as right vs. wrong? If so, what would be your decision on whether or not to debate a Holocaust denier?

[JamesB]

LOL Barbara Honegger is their idea of credible?

[Bobert]

Oh, crap. This is going to suck.

ROTFLMAO! Barbara Honegger! I take it back, this is going to be great!

I love the
"well Geroge Bush was sitting there like a deer in the headlights" SO THAT PROVES INSIDE JOB!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!1111

[bje]

LOL Barbara Honegger is their idea of credible?

It's all downhill from here.

[theauthor]

LOL Barbara Honegger is their idea of credible?


Why isn't she credible?

[JamesB]

Oh now Rusmfeld testified before congress September 10th!

Jesus H. Christ people, it was mentioned in passing at a Defense Logistics Agency convention.

[Calcas]

The stupid, it hurts.

April Gallop apparently "pushed" her computer button and triggered an explosion.

I don't think I can listen to much more...

[Brainster]

Why isn't she credible?

Start here (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/search?q=Honegger). My favorite Munchkin!

[Bobert]

Ron Is On!
"FULL BLOWN NUTTER"
Oh man this is going to be sweet!

[TC329]

But wait your drone fantasy is like Framer, over thinking and pure dumb ideas stuff.
That is pure dumb. The idea the drone was under the wires a few feet above her car; on the same day as 93 impacts and a Falcon 20 is asked to look! You lack facts, you lack evidence. Good job, expert witnesses investigator.
Under wires. Good for you. You have taken 9/11 events and found pure stupid ideas, and you use other people to hide behind.

You do not need an aviation expert to know your ideas are pure fantasy. Non-paths, 11.2 Gs, math and physics errors! What next?

The people saw a Falcon 20 on 9/11. You have turned it into a drone flying under wires. Your paranoid ideas are not even good fiction.

I have evidence. Eyewitness testimony is evidence.

How many eyewitnesses to this plane do you require before you acknowledge the people of Shanksville are good honest Americans?

no one saw a Falcon 20. Please name me what witnesses corroborate your unsubstantiated claims of a Falcon 20.

I'll be awaiting a list of their names so i can independently verify them on film.

[Calcas]

Perfect opening salvo Ron.

Perfect. I hope they allow to you continue later...

[Jonnyclueless]

You do realize that eyewitness testimony is the weakest form of evidence due to its unreliability right? It's only ever used as a last resort.

[Bobert]

Dom,
We are in the middle of what will be A SLAUGHTER of your boy Craig.
Can you please take your OT business and start another thread?
Thank you!

[theauthor]

Never heard of Barbera Honegger but she is talking complete crap. Computer screens blew up????

[Dog Town]

I'll be awaiting a list of their names so i can independently verify them on film.

What stock are you shooting?

[theauthor]

Damn, I missed Ron because i'm not allowed to smoke in the house and had to skulk outside, what did he say?

[JamesB]

WTF? 152 witnesses is not enough to determine whether a plane crashed into a building.

This guy is on crack.

[beachnut]

Never heard of Barbera Honegger but she is talking complete crap. Computer screens blew up????
http://www.nps.edu/cebrowski/denning.html

Does she work for the DoD? She said the SecDef murdered people at the Pentagon.

Who wants a person who is spreading lies to work for you? Write the Naval Postgraduate School.

She basically said the government blew up people in the Pentagon minutes before 77 impacts. In addition, she said this was done to hide some accounting problems and covering for the SecDef. Does she work for you? Pushing lies about 9/11 is terrible. I wrote to the school. I can not beleive she told people who she worked for.

[beachnut]

DRG is such a fraud, just pushing his book! He is pure hearsay! All hearsay.


WRONG, not all NTSB reports have serial numbers for FDR~! BIG error.

[Dog Town]

Kinda like the tone of this Richard G fella! We'll see...

[Dog Town]

What if 3 turned out to be 5?

[Jonnyclueless]

Is DRG stuck in 2005 or something? It's like a travel back through time in the old outdated conspiracy claims...

[bje]

WTF? 152 witnesses is not enough to determine whether a plane crashed into a building.

This guy is on crack.

Hopefully, Ron will ask them about the statements of the many hundreds of people who were inside the Pentagon and recovered the wreckage and bodies.

Not to speak of the very open sorting of the wreckage on the Pentagon lawn.

[Drudgewire]

Everyone agrees it takes an expert to crash a plane? :eye-poppi

[beachnut]

Hani was better than p4t pilots - what an idiot

and his instructor said he could hit the Pentagon

DRG is hearsay, impossible, what a crock of crap

brain cancer? stand down? lol ; buy my book, i need money, i am too dumb to do anything but take money from suckers

[JamesB]

Everyone agrees it takes an expert to crash a plane? :eye-poppi

I tried crashing on Microsoft Flight Simulator once, but I wasn't good enough.

[beachnut]

untrue, it is all untrue

do not say lie (even the host can not handle the truth)

say untrue

p4t next, the evidence is going into special physics and math

[Drudgewire]

...aaaaand I'm out. This host is a douche.

[Bobert]

What is with these crack heads!
DRG is asked what happened to the passengers on flight 77 and he or course dodges the question by saying we need a new investigation to determine that yet he has not problem implying that the DNA was planted.
He then says "well I gotta go" when asked about the passengers BUT then changes the subject and pushes his book YET AGAIN.

[JamesB]

Geez, let Ron talk. They call us liar, Nazis, fascists, whatever all day, and he doesn't complain. This is one of the reasons I am not on as a guest. Well, that and Kevin Barrett refused to answer Gravy's 11 questions for me. Wuss.

[theauthor]

Ron nearly got canned for calling DRG a liar lol. Someone needs to tell ron that air america isn't JREF.

[Jonnyclueless]

Ron nearly got canned for calling DRG a liar lol. Someone needs to tell ron that air america isn't JREF.

Yes, unfortunately David is allowed to make such attacks, but not anyone who disagrees with him. What a really fair show.

And no one can deny that David knows and has been shown that the claims he made are in fact untrue. So it's not simply a case of him being wrong, but he is knowingly lying.

[JamesB]

Ron nearly got canned for calling DRG a liar lol. Someone needs to tell ron that air america isn't JREF.

Well he is a liar. David Ray Griffin just called the military, firefighters, FBI police etc all liars who planted ground up body parts in the Pentagon wreckage. Which is more offensive?

[bje]

Kudos to Ron for getting the most salient point about DRG in.

[TC329]

Weick's first argument is an adhom. How jrefian of him.

Weick is an embarassment.

lol

[A W Smith]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie


A lie is a type of deception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception) in the form of an untruthful statement with the intention to deceive, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, or to avoid punishment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punishment). To lie is to state something one believes is false (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False) with the intention that it be taken for the truth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth) by someone else. A liar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar) is a person who is lying, who has previously lied, or who tends by nature to lie repeatedly.
Lying is typically used to refer to deceptions in oral or written communication. Other forms of deception, such as disguises or forgeries, are generally not considered lies, though the underlying intent may be the same; however, even a true statement can be considered a lie if the person making that statement is doing so to deceive. In this situation, it is the intent of being untruthful rather than the truthfulness of the statement itself that is considered.

[theauthor]

Richard Greene: "This isn't a show to discuss your challenges booking guests for hardfire"

ROFL


Is it me, or is this programme having commercials every 2 minutes?

[Jonnyclueless]

Weick's first argument is an adhom. How jrefian of him.

Weick is an embarassment.

lol

Yet you have no problem when David does it. Isn't that funny!

[Bobert]

How come you got kicked out of the CIT treefort?
Do you have to post pictures of men in speedos to remain in the CIT?

Please keep in mind the Membership Agreement and do not use personal attacks to argue your point.

[Drudgewire]

Ron needs to point out that trying to explain why the truth movement is wrong without pointing out they're filled with liars is like trying to explain blueberry pie without mentioning blueberries.

DRG's whole segment can be summed up in the defense's opening statement from My Cousin Vinnie: "Everything that guy just said is bull:rule10."

[A W Smith]

'Ring of fire' show just had an ad hom commercial. called someone liar, Can I borrow an irony meter?

[TC329]

Yet you have no problem when David does it. Isn't that funny!

More proof you're not listening Edited to remove inappropriate remark.

Do not use insults or change another person's username in order to insult.

[Jonnyclueless]

Do they actually have discussions sometimes in between commercials or is it all commercials?

[Brainache]

Sounds like I'm missing out on some truly frustrating arrogant ignorance and lies by unfortunately living half a world away from those nutjobs. Oh well.

[beachnut]

Wrong, NTSB does not have to do anything for 9/11, it was on purpose! FBI owns it! Nelson is full of junk, only an idiot would think 77 is not in the Pentagon. Oops Nelson is...

[Jonnyclueless]

More proof you're not listening Johnnydumbass......

So David didn't call those people liars? You sure you don't want me to rewind and play you back the audio clip of that? You sure there kiddo? Not too late for you to apologize.

[bje]

Sounds like I'm missing out on some truly frustrating arrogant ignorance and lies by unfortunately living half a world away from those nutjobs. Oh well.

Don't worry. It's just a rehash of everything that was debunked in 2002.

[beachnut]

Weick's first argument is an adhom. How jrefian of him.

Weick is an embarassment.

lolWrong, he was telling the truth, DRG is a hearsay false information liar.

Oops, seems like Nelson is physics challenged! Have you helped jdx fix that physics error?

[Walter Ego]

Did anyone record Ron's segment. I missed it. :(

[A W Smith]

Weick's first argument is an adhom. How jrefian of him.

Weick is an embarassment.

lol

More proof you're not listening Edited to remove inappropriate remark.

Do not use insults or change another person's username in order to insult.

:dl::dl::dl::dl:

[beachnut]

Nelson is using his old air force stuff to make up lies about 9/11. Cool, an outdated Lt Col from the USAF telling us how the air force does maintenance 20 years ago. Good job Lt Col Nelson.

[theauthor]

The entrance hole is 90 feet???? Since when?

[beachnut]

Did anyone record Ron's segment. I missed it. :(
He is still on, and now they are talking about the 77 impact.

[Jonnyclueless]

I would have thought that Ron had read the thread that addresses the 85 videos. It pretty much shoots down the claim. It shows that there were NOT 85 surveilence videos.

[beachnut]

The entrance hole is 90 feet???? Since when?
It was clear the impact of the wings on the building, and if you try you can find the 124 foot impact line from the wings.

Since 77 hit the Pentagon, so far we have 4 false information people on the show who have not said one true thing.

[A W Smith]

Nelson is using his old air force stuff to make up lies about 9/11. Cool, an outdated Lt Col from the USAF telling us how the air force does maintenance 20 years ago. Good job Lt Col Nelson.

col Nelson. yeah I remember him
http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/large/10101000/10101852.jpg

[Boone 870]

Did the host just say that Craig Ranke was going to break some wind on the show tonight? That would equal what he has accomplished so far in the 911 truth movement.

[beachnut]

Engine weighs 9400 pounds. What did craig say?

[Bobert]

OOOOOOH MAN they come back for 30 seconds then more commercials!
I can lend these guys a buck or 2 if they are that hard off.
But then again listening to the commercials makes me realize that I have leaky capillaries!

[beachnut]

col Nelson. yeah I remember him
http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/large/10101000/10101852.jpg
I put together an AF uniform for my brother so he and his wife could do that at Halloween. I tried to copy the ribbons and needed some Astronaut wings. The AF has changed the uniform, so the old one will only be at yard sales and thrift stores.

Nelson was funny, he knows the NTSB is not the lead but wants all the information as if it was, but it is the FBI's work. His inability to find real evidence is bad.

[beachnut]

The flying on 9/11 was too easy, kids did it with me in a sim. So did a small aircraft only pilot step into a 757 sim and hit the Pentagon first time.

Hani's instructor said he could hit the pentagon. Believe me, all you need is a window and the stick.

Is this why Rob is grounded, the test are in English or was it his math?

Easy for a kid off the street - only p4t can't do it!!!! LOL

It is possible and Lt Col Keith Beachy says so. ATP, over 4,000 hours in 300,000 pound aircraft. Any kid could do it. Except Rob.

Oh noes! Craig has evidence of a fly over!

NOC is back but impossible.

[JamesB]

Geez, ever heard of the Texas Sharpshooter's Fallacy?

[beachnut]

He was in the Pentagon, south parking lot. Saw the plane continue.

He saw it fly by and hit the Pentagon.

Craig's witness sound like he is drunk. Now the plane is on the south parking lot; does Craig ever check this stuff?

All the stuff is false.

[WildCat]

If Craig proved the plane did not hit the building how could it possibly fool someone that it hit the building?

[WildCat]

How could this bimbo have interviewed someone "under oath"? Is she a court officer?

[beachnut]

Barbara Honegger
she and the pilot she cites are so dumb!

All the DNA was found in the Pentagon.

She works here, she is working for you! http://www.nps.edu/Home.aspx

Now she says the terrorists are alive. http://www.nps.edu/Home.aspx

Am I paying her to think about this?

[beachnut]

She is so bad at this. Living terrorists.

Ron is doing fine. He is use to it. I would be so bad! I would have been banned!

[Bobert]

Can someone pleaes let me know when CIT is going to release its Ground breaking NEW evidence?

I aint playin!!!

[Bobert]

LOL pooor widdle Aldo
http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/single/?p=72578&t=277689
This is unbelieveable.

We are being drowned out. Two many chiefs and not enough Indians.

This is why we will fail. We have incredibly important evidence and Ron Weik and Barbara Honegger get more air time than Craig and Rob did. Sucks. All old info all bunk.

Whatever, you guys heard it. We've got a flyover witness(es).

[pomeroo]

The entrance hole is 90 feet???? Since when?


You might try taking a look at the Pentagon Building Report.

[theauthor]

You might try taking a look at the Pentagon Building Report.


You might like to explain why the report differs from the 16ft hole we see in all the photos, videos and witness testimonies.

[Bobert]

After having to listen to Craig and his disgusting comments about faked DNA and the victims of 9-11 I appreciated your closing comment Ron.

[A W Smith]

He was in the Pentagon, south parking lot. Saw the plane continue.

He saw it fly by and hit the Pentagon.

Craig's witness sound like he is drunk. Now the plane is on the south parking lot; does Craig ever check this stuff?

All the stuff is false.

:dl::dl::dl::dl:

Ladies and gentlemen, I bring you.. The SOUTH PARKING LOT!

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm89/AWSmith1955/parking-map-lg.gif

[pomeroo]

You might like to explain why the report differs from the 16ft hole we see in all the photos, videos and witness testimonies.


Stop lying. This canard was exposed long ago.

[JamesB]

He was in the Pentagon, south parking lot. Saw the plane continue.

He saw it fly by and hit the Pentagon.

Craig's witness sound like he is drunk. Now the plane is on the south parking lot; does Craig ever check this stuff?

All the stuff is false.

LOL I was thinking that their witness seriously needed a tox screen.

[1337m4n]

Did I miss it?

I wanna see a transcript! Or a recording! Or something!

[CHF]

Frankly, I would love nothing more than for the CIT crew to become the face of the 9/11 twoof movement. Let them on air and allow America to hear how Flight 77 pulled up at the last second.

Do not oppose these idiots.