Building a not too expensive computer

[AgeGap]

I harbour ambitions to build a compter.
Here is a recommended list of parts. What do you think regarding bang per buck. None of the parts are very expensive but feel free to correct me.

AMD Athlon X2 4800+ 2.5GHz
ASRock ALiveNF7G-HD720p Motherboard
and perhaps a GeForce 9600GT (Perhaps now, perhaps later, perhaps never)
Operating System ????????
I will not use it to play games

Any thoughts?

[BigAl]

Spend time picking a power supply brand and size. There is lots of no-name crap out there. I've liked Antec but it's been a while since I've shopped. PC Power & Cooling is always first-rate but it costs a couple bucks more. They will give you good size advice over the phone.

IMO, buy a copy of Retail XP while you have the chance. The versions of XP that Microsoft is going to market in the future will be locked down as to size of memory, disk and number of processors. OEM XP will probably not work if you switch mobos in the future.

I'm a fan of Asus mobos.

If you are interested in Microsoft Windows and Linux, run both at once with one of the Virtual Machine products; Microsoft Virtual PC, (free) or VMWare Virtual Machine, (free to $150). They have pluses and minuses but if you are learning Unix, I say run XP with MS Virtual PC and then run Linux in as a VM.

[Mongrel]

I harbour ambitions to build a compter.
Here is a recommended list of parts. What do you think regarding bang per buck. None of the parts are very expensive but feel free to correct me.

AMD Athlon X2 4800+ 2.5GHz
ASRock ALiveNF7G-HD720p Motherboard
and perhaps a GeForce 9600GT (Perhaps now, perhaps later, perhaps never)
Operating System ????????
I will not use it to play games

Any thoughts?

What's your budget (roughly) and what are you planning to use it for?
If you're not gaming at all then a 9600GT is way overboard.
Don't forget RAM, for this sort of build Corsair Value select is your best option (and it still has a lifetime warranty)
Check your favoured vendor for bundle deals and barebones systems and I'd still recommend Windows XP, you should still be able to get an OEM copy :)

[KoihimeNakamura]

a friend of mine recommended some kind of clips to get the wires to stay on the case side - they'll stay away from fans and motherboards that way. Also looks nicer.

[gbed]

I would heartily recommend a solid power supply. Antec is always a top recommend. Also, while memory is cheap, consider loading up with 4 (2x2gb) gb of ram. That will allow you to run in dual channel mode, so you'll get the most out of your memory and it's bandwidth. I would also run Windows Vista premium in 64 bit mode. This will give you maximum security.

I looked at the asrock page for your motherboard, it does have onboard video, so remember that will pull from your system memory.

Also, the 64 bit drivers for the motherboard are listed on the site.

It seems to me that motherboard is intended for home theatre applications, and Vista Premium has Media center functionality built in. I'm actually toggling right now between TV and the jref forums :)

Since you are not playing games on it, the onboard video should be quite sufficient. The nice part is, if you decide you want to upgrade video later, you can just pop in a nice card.

There are usually plenty of places to buy these parts online, I tend to use newegg, zip zoom fly, and tiger (when I have too)

most of all, don't forget to post back and let us know how it goes!

Also, you didn't mention a case. Be careful with cases that come with power supplies, those are the power supplies to be scared of.

Also, if you haven't shopped for power supplies recently, you'll need one that is ATX 2.x with a 24 pin power connector.

[ddt]

I harbour ambitions to build a compter.
Here is a recommended list of parts. What do you think regarding bang per buck. None of the parts are very expensive but feel free to correct me.

AMD Athlon X2 4800+ 2.5GHz
ASRock ALiveNF7G-HD720p Motherboard
and perhaps a GeForce 9600GT (Perhaps now, perhaps later, perhaps never)
Operating System ????????
I will not use it to play games

Any thoughts?

My (Dutch) computer magazine had a comparison of processors, and the AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ came out as the one with the best price/performance ratio; the didn't have the 4800+ in the comparison. US prices may be a bit different, of course, but you have hit the sweet spot, I guess.

As to motherboards, I don't know the reputation of ASRock, but I've always shelled out the 10 or 20 extra bucks for an A-brand (mostly Asus, once MSI). I wouldn't, in general, economize by buying B-brands; the money you save is not worth the potential trouble.

As to the graphics card: if you don't play games, the simplest graphic card would still do.

You didn't mention the case. I built my last two computers with a Cooler Master Centurion case, they're robust, simple, and have a nice slide-system for the disks.

As to the OS, I'd (of course) recommend Linux. It's free and it has stable 64-bit versions (why run a 32-bits OS on a 64-bits CPU?). Installation is quicker too; within an hour, you have not only an OS, but office suite, program development tools, etc. loaded from one disk.

You could then, if you want, run Windows in a virtual machine; VMWare, or if you're not faint of heart, Xen. The drawback of 64-bits Linux, though, is that you'll be annoyed no-end when surfing: there's still no 64-bits Flash plugin...

[Nick Bogaerts]

As to the OS, I'd (of course) recommend Linux. It's free and it has stable 64-bit versions (why run a 32-bits OS on a 64-bits CPU?). Installation is quicker too; within an hour, you have not only an OS, but office suite, program development tools, etc. loaded from one disk.

I entirely agree. I don't see why you'd have to choose between the (deliberately) obsoleted XP and the resource hog that is Vista, when you can have a modern, secure, stable and efficient operating system. If you want to maximise performance, Linux is the way to go. If you want to minimize cost, Linux is the way to go. For me it's a no-brainer.

The drawback of 64-bits Linux, though, is that you'll be annoyed no-end when surfing: there's still no 64-bits Flash plugin...

nspluginwrapper is your friend.

[AgeGap]

As I don't play games I am trying to keep costs fairly low. I will use it like I do my current computer. Mainly internet, photo-editing and listening to a little music.

[Mongrel]

IS it going to be completely from scratch or are you salvaging bits from your old PC? (Case, Hard drives etc)

If you're running XP do you have the original install discs?

[AgeGap]

I live in the UK so will be buying from Scan. This is a well respected UK online shop. The Motherboard has four slots for Ram. I will stick to 1gig times two. This will keep me on budget and give scope for future improvement.
Scan.co.uk has Corsair memory.
I am planing on getting some of those mini cable ties. My current compter has wires plaited in a sort of freindship bracelet way.
I have had a power supply and case recommended to me. I will post these when I can find my scrap of paper.
This will be a build from scratch.
My old computer came with instructions on how to burn rescue CDs. So no install disc.
Thanks everyone.
Any caveats, recommended guides etc?

[ddt]

I entirely agree. I don't see why you'd have to choose between the (deliberately) obsoleted XP and the resource hog that is Vista, when you can have a modern, secure, stable and efficient operating system. If you want to maximise performance, Linux is the way to go. If you want to minimize cost, Linux is the way to go. For me it's a no-brainer.

Except if you choose Ubuntu, of course (see xkcd (http://xkcd.com/424/) of today) :D.


nspluginwrapper is your friend.
Thanks!

[AgeGap]

"40% of OpenBSD installs lead to shark attacks. It's their only standing security issue."
xkcd (http://xkcd.com/349/)
I was thinking more along these lines.

Sharkoon Rebel9 Economy Black case.
530W Hiper HPU-4M530 V2 Power supply.
The processor comes packaged with a fan.


ETA: OMG, have you seen how much a copy of Vista is? 160 odd Quid.

[ddt]

"40% of OpenBSD installs lead to shark attacks. It's their only standing security issue."
xkcd (http://xkcd.com/349/)
I was thinking more along these lines.
LOL.

Now you mention it: since I employ OpenBSD on my firewall, I keep finding these small white chips in my study. Must be bits of shark teeth.

I think OpenBSD too enables to run Linux applications, for those things not natively available.

For using Xen, NetBSD would be better suited - they have it natively. FreeBSD has a patch for it, but not yet officially supported. OpenBSD won't support it until Theo de Raadt has personally scrutinized every byte of it, I guess :)



ETA: OMG, have you seen how much a copy of Vista is? 160 odd Quid.
:jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp :jaw-dropp

[RecoveringYuppy]

I just finished typing in some notes to myself about the components I used to build a computer this weekend for use as a media center:

Components used, from SWS Computers unless otherwise specified.
Antec P182 Case. Love the size.
AZUS P5K-E Motherboard.
Intel E-6550 CPU.
(2) 1GB DDR 800 strips, from Super*Talent T8UB1GC5
Video card GTS 8800, from Tigerdirect.
Video capture card, scavenged from Gateway
Wireless card, scavenged from Gateway.
250 GB SATA drive w/OS and software.
750 GB SATA drive, new and empty.
500 Watt (slight above I think) power supply. Not sure of source. Scavenged, Computer Renaissance, maybe TigerDirect. Used all it’s SATA power leads, but there are several molex left.
Two optical drives, scavenged from Gateway.
Rebuilt OS from recovery disk supplied with original Gateway. It rebuilt XP Home Edition, not MCE. So I’m planning on using 3rd party PVR software. In the recovery process I installed XP on the 750 GB drive also, so it’s bootable in the event of a crash.

[AgeGap]

To ddt. I now have a comparison of the two chips, Athlon 4800+ and 5000+. The only difference I can see between them is their clock speed, 2.5GHz and 2.6GHz. There is a 25% price difference. Although this is only a small amount of cash (£11) I could end up doing this with every component and end up pushing the price of the finished PC well above what I want to pay. It is food for thought though.

[ddt]

To ddt. I now have a comparison of the two chips, Athlon 4800+ and 5000+. The only difference I can see between them is their clock speed, 2.5GHz and 2.6GHz. There is a 25% price difference. Although this is only a small amount of cash (£11) I could end up doing this with every component and end up pushing the price of the finished PC well above what I want to pay. It is food for thought though.

My source is the Dutch computer magazine c't, which adopts many of its articles from the German c't - AFAIK, the most authoritative European computer magazine. The article with the large processor test comes from the German magazine too.

They haven't tested the performance of all processors - that's nearly undoable with all different variants out there now.

Two relevant processors they have tested are the Athlon 64 X2 5000+ and the Athlon X2 4850e. The 5000+ outperforms the 4850e slightly (2-4%) in all benchmarks. The 4850e on the other hand, outperforms the 5000+ in its power consumption - 10% in rest, 20% when in use. Both are listed at a streetprice of EUR 75,00. The price/performance ratio is measured with that price and the performance in the Cinebench10 benchmark. It gives 53 for the 4850e, and 55 for the 5000+. The next smaller processor tested is the Athlon X2 4050e (so that's a big step down), which performs 10-15% worse, streetprice EUR 69, and price/performance ratio of 48,9.

Interpolating those results, I'd say that a 4800+ at a considerable lower price is definitely worth it, as its performance won't be more than, say, 5% lower than the 5000+. I found a streetprice in NL of EUR 65,00, so 15% less than the 5000+ - I'd take that lower price too.

My post wasn't meant to say that the 5000+ is in any way better - more that this is about the clockspeed where you get the most bang for the buck. I more wanted to say tot not compromise on quality - like having a no-name power supply. The one or the other AMD processor has the same quality (I hope).

There is still one caveat. Different generations of processors are sold under the same name. The same article gives a (complete?) overview of all available processors. I'll list the relevant ones.

Windsor core, stepping F2:
4800+ at 2.4 GHz, 2x1024 MB L2 cache, 89W power consumption
5000+ at 2.6 GHz, 2x512 MB L2 cache, 89W power consumption

Brisbane core, stepping G1:
4800+ at 2.5 GHz, 2x512 MB L2 cache, 65W power consumption
5000+ at 2.6 GHz, 2x512 MB L2 cache, 65W power consumption

Brisbane core, stepping G2:
4800+ at 2.5 GHz, 2x512 MB L2 cache, 65W power consumption
5000+ at 2.6 GHz, 2x512 MB L2 cache, 65W power consumption
4850e at 2.5 GHz, 2x512 MB L2 cache, 45W power consumption

So whichever you buy, look you get a Brisbane core, as it consumes less power. Depending on the price your retailer asks for the 4850e and what your power company asks, you may consider the 4850e as its performance is comparable but the investment pays back via less power consumption.

[Mongrel]

If you're going to Scan have a peek through their 3XS builds (http://3xs.scan.co.uk/). You pay normal price for the components, they're all guaranteed to work together, the internals are immaculate and the moderate fee you pay for the build gets you a years on-site warranty as well.

Even if you wish to build it yourself make a note of the components, they've already done the testing, although the one thing that I would do is switch the RAM to the Corsair Value (as previously mentioned), grab a decent power supply (Hiper Power are the best option for reliability\cost\branding IMO) are and switch the case out (you're paying extra for a no-name PSU in there). You'll also have be able to grab an OEM copy of XP pro, which is still your best option at the moment.

(If you choose the "build yourself" option make sure to get some decent thermal paste and, depending on the case layout, you may want the right angle SATA cables as well)

[AgeGap]

Sharkoon Rebel 9 ECONOMY Black Edition ATX - (No PSU) is my case of choice, or at least the one that was recommended to me.
530W Hiper HPU-4M530 V2 SLi Ready Black ATX2.2/BTX SATAx2 PCI-Ex2 is the power supply of choice.
Had a look at the 3XS builds and that would seem the sensible way to go. The only thing is though, is that the building of the computer is a project for me.
Up until about 18 months ago I had not used a PC. I did not even know about double-clicking.
Hopefully the trials and the errors of this project will get me some way up to speed.
ETA: Thermal paste. Good call. The CPU comes supplied with it's own fan. (Retail version.) I just assumed it would have thermal paste in there as well.

[Mongrel]

The heatsink will come with a pad of thermal goop which will perform adequately. It won't work as well (long term especially) as properly applied thermal paste.

As for the case I've built a system for a friend in one of these beauties (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=584955), loads of room inside and whisper quiet (it also looks less utilitarian)

[AgeGap]

....As for the case I've built a system for a friend in one of these beauties (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=584955), loads of room inside and whisper quiet (it also looks less utilitarian)

That case certainly looks the part. Very nice and expensive looking.

[ddt]

Had a look at the 3XS builds and that would seem the sensible way to go. The only thing is though, is that the building of the computer is a project for me.
Up until about 18 months ago I had not used a PC. I did not even know about double-clicking.
Hopefully the trials and the errors of this project will get me some way up to speed.


I actually built my last computer from scratch, which had the same processor as you're looking for - but this was 1.5 years ago, when it was still at EUR 300 or so. It was in poor supply at the time, and one shop had it on sale - but they didn't do assembly. It was definitely fun, but normally I'd shell out the bucks because it isn't worth the time.

The part that scared me most was putting the processor on the motherboard. The processor has a plastic handle you have to push very hard to put it into place in its socket. Don't worry, it won't break.

The rest is very simple. Do take a look into an existing PC to see how it's supposed to look and you can't go wrong.

BTW, don't forget to include a case-fan, or maybe two, to attach to the sides or the back of the case. Some cases already have a fan. When buying a fan, look at their noise levels. For the same price, you may end up with one that's screaming your ears off or one you don't hear.

[AgeGap]

Video guide to building a PC (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/185508/)

I have had the side off my PC today. Had to break the warranty seal but it is well out of date now. It gave me a good idea about the layout and connections.
I think I am convinced by the 4850e argument.
Case-fan? Sigh, I thought I had everything covered.:(

[RecoveringYuppy]

AgeGap,

Most cases and motherboards come with step by step instructions these days. You'll be reminded about things like fans and thermal paste.

Some things I find helpful:

Make sure you read the motherboard labels before installing it in the case. Make a map of where the labels are.

There are cables inside the case that need to connect to the motherboard (I'm talking USB ports, front panel audio, that sorts of stuff). The documentation for the motherboard and the case may use slightly different terminology. Always easier to figure that out before the motherboard goes in. Make sure you know which wire is going where before mounting the motherboard. It's just easier to read the thing before mounting it and running wires across it.

Most instructions will tell you to mount the CPU, heatsink and cables after mounting the motherboard in the case. Plan ahead and see if any cables are near an edge or are going to be hard to reach for any reason. Consider attaching them before mounting the motherboard.

In particular I find it easier to place the CPU and especially the heat sink prior to mounting the motherboard. The only thing I've ever broken while assembling a computer is the heat sink. And the main reason is because it's hard to see if the mounting pins are lined up properly. This probably varies based on your heatsink.

Careful handling the heat sink. It's easy to touch the thermal paste and you don't want to do that.

[Mongrel]

Given the sort of usage you're aiming at it's not something I'd worry about with the beastie case, there'll be enough airflow just from that to cool most things.

If you're looking at putting multiple hard drives in there then perhaps a 120mm at the front to cool them off, if you've only got on then just make sure you leave an air gap around it.

In particular I find it easier to place the CPU and especially the heat sink prior to mounting the motherboard. The only thing I've ever broken while assembling a computer is the heat sink. And the main reason is because it's hard to see if the mounting pins are lined up properly. This probably varies based on your heatsink.

It's gotten a lot easier nowadays, 4 push and twist pins on the heatsink (which is larger than the base as well, very hard to get gooey fingers). I still prefer the solidity of the large spring clips but they could be real buggers at times.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

Hmmm... or maybe just get an EEE PC (http://eeepc.asus.com/global/)! I'm thinking of the 900 (http://eeepc.asus.com/global/900.htm), myself.
Specification
Display|8.9" Display, 1024 x 600 resolution
Color|Pearl white / Galaxy Black
Intel CPU & Chipset|Intel® Mobile CPU & Chipset
Memory|DDR II 1GB
Display Card|Intel UMA
S.S.D. Storage (Solid-State Disk)|12GB (4GB built-in + 8GB flash) SSD (Microsoft Windows OS Version)
|20GB (4GB built-in +16GB flash) SSD (Linux OS Version)
Audio|HD audio / built-in speakers
WLAN|Built-in 802.11b/g
Camera|1.3M Pixel webcam
Storage Cards|SD / MMC (SDHC)
Input / Output|3xUSB / VGA-out (D-Sub, 15pin) / earphone jack / mic / RJ45 10/100 Mbps
Power|Output: 12V, 36W; Input: 100-240V AC, 50/60Hz universal
Operating System|Windows® XP Home / Linux
Dimensions|22.5cm(W) x 17.0cm(D) x 2cm~3.38cm(H)
Weight|0.99 kg

US$550 at Amazon.Com (http://www.amazon.com/s?keywords=eee+pc+900&rs=565108&page=1&rh=n%3A541966%2Ck%3Aeee+pc+900%2Cn%3A565108%2Cp_4% 3AAsus%2Cp_display_size-bin%3A00160%7B5+to+9.9+in.%7B&bbn=565108&sort=-price)!

Get your basic applications/productivity suite for free at OpenOffice.Org (http://www.openoffice.org/), and you're in business!

[TheDaver]

Just get a cheap Tosh laptop. If you go cheap with a desktop, you'll have a big paperweight within a year, because you'll be wanting to upgrade it, and realizing that the cost of upgrading will be comparable to buying a new computer.

At least with a laptop you can still sell it when it outlives its interest to you.

Just my 2¢.

[AgeGap]

It's about the journey more than the destination. There are more sensible and logical things to do but I would like to build a computer. I have had a go of an eee and it was cool.

[TheDaver]

Okay, I see what you mean there. I'm the same with my archery tackle.…

[negativ]

I'm a big fan of the Ars Technica system guides (http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200803.ars).

[AgeGap]

I have just been given a big case from a workmate. It is overkill for my needs. I think it has three fans on it. It was meant to be part of a games machine. It does look the part though. I am also getting a monitor and some other bits from other friends who have just upgraded their PC. I am surprised at all the surplus stuff people have lying around. I thought it was just exercise equiptment.

[AgeGap]

Just received an AMD 3500+ from a friend.
I have just discoverred that the cheapest way to build a computer is to tell everyone about it and they will willingly give you their old stuff. Their are several people who I work with who build computers and I feel like I am being initiated into a secret club.:)

[Mongrel]

Just received an AMD 3500+ from a friend.
I have just discoverred that the cheapest way to build a computer is to tell everyone about it and they will willingly give you their old stuff. Their are several people who I work with who build computers and I feel like I am being initiated into a secret club.:)

Nah, it's mainly that they have bits they're not using clogging up shelf space but still work so would be wasteful to chuck....

[moopet]

I've got an Athlon x2 5000+ I don't use lying around if you want it. You have to make sure your board matches the cpu though as they went through three revisions of pin-patterns in the last few years.

My 2p in this chit-chat is that you don't need an SLI-ready PSU, since you're not planning to use it as a gaming machine, and a name brand 400W PSU will be absolutely fine. Cheap PSUs ramp up the number to impress you rather like they do with speaker wattages. A cheap 500W PSU probably won't give you a reliable smooth current at 250W.
Try this: http://www.thermaltake.outervision.com/Power
Filling in your details, and adding a few components for good measure, I come out at less than 300W.

[grmcdorman]

To revive this thread, I'm looking at putting together a system myself. I'll probably reuse an existing case and power supply (I think it's a 350W, although I'm not sure; have to look when I get home), and will reuse the hard drive and optical drive (both PATA). (The cases for barebones systems at Tiger Direct are apparently pretty uniformly bad, according to the comments by customers on their web site. Not worth the extra $30 or so, in other words.)

For the rest of the components, I'd put in 1GB of memory (for now), and I'm looking at these choices for the motherboard, CPU, and graphics (links are to Tiger Direct where I'd be purchasing the parts):
Motherboard & CPU (both $121.99 CAD)
Abit NF-M2PV, Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (2.0GHz) (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3872147&CatId=2621)
MSI K9N6SGM-V, Athlon 64 X4 4400+ (2.3GHz) (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3799144&CatId=2621)
I'll probably go with the latter since it's the same price for a slightly better CPU. Both have only one IDE header, but that should be adequate, I think (1 hard disk, 1 optical disk). (There are cheaper sets, but they're typically single core. I'm not wedded to AMD, but it seems to be better value than Intel based on the prices I've seen at Tiger Direct.) MSI, from what I've heard, also produces reasonable motherboards.

My main question is with respect to graphics cards:Graphics card|Memory|Price (CAD$)
EVGA GeForce 8600 GT (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3433250&CatId=1826)|512MB DDR2|$97.99
EVGA GeForce 8600 GT (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3041060&CatId=1560)|256MB GDDR3|$109.99
XFX GeForce 8600 GT (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3514923&CatId=1560)|256MB DDR3|$109.99
EVGA GeForce 8600 GTS (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3041061&CatId=1560)|256MB GDDR3|$146.99

I don't know EVGA from a hole in the wall; had trouble with an XFX card, though (kept locking up in Linux). Didn't bother to try customer support for that, however. Opinions I've read on XFX online seemed to be mixed.

There are lots of other graphics cards around that price range, too. I want to stick with NVidia since it seems to work better under Linux, and I've had good experience with them on the other systems. There's also a couple of 1GB DDR2 cards, but I don't think that extra memory will add that much performance.

I, and my son, will be using this for gaming - mostly Oblivion. We don't need the best eye candy for that (for comparison, I'm currently playing it on a NVidia 6200!). Based on what I've found, it looks like we can expect around 35-60 FPS for the 8600 GT cards and almost twice that for the 8600 GTS. There's also an XFX 8800 GTS (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3606193&CatId=3668) for the same price as the 8600 GTS, but it'd blow my budget because I'd have to upgrade the power supply for sure (it needs a 450W PSU).

Upgrading the graphics card on the existing motherboard isn't really an option, as it's AGP only (no PCI-E).

So, is the difference between the 8600 GT and the GTS worth the ~40% price increase? Is the 8800 GTS noticeably better than the 8600 GTS? If I go with the GT, is 256MB (G)DDR3 memory better than 512MB DDR2 memory?

[gtc]

Hi,
I'm also looking to buy a new computer; although my experience is very limited.

A friend who builds computers recommended Tom's Hardware and their monthly wrap up of graphics cards (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/graphics-cards,1942.html). They recommend the 8600 GT with GDDR3 memory in your price range; but they don't mention the 8600GTS.

They said this about the 8600 GT:
The DDR2 version of the 8600 GT can be found for a few dollars less than the GDDR3 version, but the DDR2 memory provides crippled performance compared to its GDDR3 counterpart.

Hope this helps.

[moopet]

I, and my son, will be using this for gaming - mostly Oblivion. We don't need the best eye candy for that (for comparison, I'm currently playing it on a NVidia 6200!).

[...]

So, is the difference between the 8600 GT and the GTS worth the ~40% price increase? Is the 8800 GTS noticeably better than the 8600 GTS? If I go with the GT, is 256MB (G)DDR3 memory better than 512MB DDR2 memory?

I recently upgraded from an 8600GTS to an 8800GTX, and I'm currently playing Oblivion with all the options turned up full in 1680x1050 resolution. I haven't noticed a difference :)

[grmcdorman]

Hi guys. Thanks for the input. I notice I have a typo, though: Is the 8800 GTS noticeably better than the 8600 GTS?should be Is the 8800 GTS noticeably better than the 8600 GT?

So, moopet, your upgrade - GTS to GTX - is a step above the highest card I'm considering. As I said, it looks like GT to GTS is almost twice the performance - but I don't know if that translates into visible results (because, of course, there's a point at which it's so fast that performance improvements, while real, aren't visible). That's the big question right now; plus, are EVGA products reliable, or is XFX a better choice?

ETA: I checked last night, and we do have a 400W power supply.

[Mongrel]

grmcdorman,
I'd go for the Abit board I rate them above MSI and you're getting 4 RAM slots which you should fill with either 3 or 4 GB (in pairs), depending on your OS 3 for XP, 4 for Vista. If you're only looking at one IDE header leave it for the optical drives and grab a SATA hard drive, putting an optical drive and a hard drive on the same channel will cripple the hard drive data rate.

You'll probably want to get a better power supply anyway, 450 or better, especially if you're looking at the bigger graphics cards, talking of which I personally would go for the GTS. They are better chipsets and the cooling is better on them.

[grmcdorman]

Mongrel, first off, happy birthday.

Thank you for your reply. Re the Abit board: I didn't notice that it had more memory slots. I'm not sure it's an issue, though; I'm unlikely to put more than 2GB in anyway.

The drawback to that board, though, is that it has only one PCI slot. This will have a wireless card in it, so I won't be able to add a 2nd card. Mind you, about the only thing I might put in is a Firewire card; I can't think of anything else that might need to be added.

I didn't know that having a hard drive and optical drive on the same channel will slow the former down; unfortunately, though, I do not wish to upgrade the HD right now. (It's a 150 GB drive, so it's not like I need to get a bigger drive). I'll just have to live with the hit, until I do upgrade it.

[Mongrel]

Mongrel, first off, happy birthday.
Thank you :)

Thank you for your reply. Re the Abit board: I didn't notice that it had more memory slots. I'm not sure it's an issue, though; I'm unlikely to put more than 2GB in anyway.
Well I always like to give a bit of room for future expansion ;). Anyway whichever one you pick you'll need a heatsink, this (http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2932375&CatId=2545) is a good one for the money

The drawback to that board, though, is that it has only one PCI slot. This will have a wireless card in it, so I won't be able to add a 2nd card. Mind you, about the only thing I might put in is a Firewire card; I can't think of anything else that might need to be added.
More and more items are coming out in PCIe formats and most already have a USB 2 version\converter

I didn't know that having a hard drive and optical drive on the same channel will slow the former down; unfortunately, though, I do not wish to upgrade the HD right now. (It's a 150 GB drive, so it's not like I need to get a bigger drive). I'll just have to live with the hit, until I do upgrade it.

It is quite a dramatic hit, this article (http://www.askageek.com/2006/12/12/combine-optical-drives-and-ide-hard-drives-on-the-same-ide-channel/) has some for information. A better option would be grabbing a SATA optical drive (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?Recs=10&Nav=|c:1624|&Sort=4), $30 and maybe look to upgrade the HDD - 120Gb is sod all nowadays 500Gb is the best bang for your buck (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?Recs=10&Nav=|c:2459|&Sort=4) $80 and you can never have too much storage :D.

[grmcdorman]

Thanks for the info on the heatsink; I know I need one and had budgeted precisely that amount (i.e. ~$25 CAD) for one!

Adding more components to the system would be a hard sell, though; I have to justify the price tag to my wife. I'm already stuck with trying to justify $30 more for 2GB of RAM (dual channel, you know); I don't think adding more bits will fly, even if it's only $30 (another $30, that is).

ETA: I see that, overall, the Abit board has more room for expansion: 4 SATA headers instead of two, 4 RAM slots instead of 2, and the single PCI slot is balanced out by having 2 PCI-E slots instead of one (which I overlooked). So it supports more storage devices, memory, and - ignoring formats - the same number of expansion cards.

[Mongrel]

Thanks for the info on the heatsink; I know I need one and had budgeted precisely that amount (i.e. ~$25 CAD) for one!

Adding more components to the system would be a hard sell, though; I have to justify the price tag to my wife. I'm already stuck with trying to justify $30 more for 2GB of RAM (dual channel, you know); I don't think adding more bits will fly, even if it's only $30 (another $30, that is).

You able to skim off the $30 from next months budget and have it on your "to buy" list?

[grmcdorman]

OK, this is what I'm going to go with (no SATA optical drive or HD for now), provided I can sell my wife on it:

The Abit NF-M2PV motherboard and Athlon 64 X2 3800+ ($121.99 from Tiger Direct Canada)
1 GB of RAM in two Kingmax PC6400 (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=011768&cid=RAM.346.307) sticks ($20.39 at Canada Computers)
The EVGA 8600 GTS video card ($146.99 at Tiger Direct, $40 rebate)
The Thermaltake TMG A3 (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=012478&cid=FN.349) heatsink ($17.99 at Canada Computers) (that's $7 less than Tiger Direct)

Bottom line: with taxes, $347.32 before the rebate.

I'll be keeping an eye on disk and optical drive sales, and may replace one or the other if there's a good sale.

ETA: I may see if I can make a case for 2 GB of memory (also Kingmax (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=013070&cid=RAM.346.307).)

[AgeGap]

Grmcdorman is having some of the difficulties I faced. Namely persuasion of the wife. When I first had the idea to build a computer I thought my problems would be technical. If you have kids why don't you get some components for Fathers Day. That's how I am getting a motherboard.

[grmcdorman]

Sigh. Went to Tiger Direct store on the weekend; there they told me that the motherboard/CPU combo is web only. No mention of this on the web site (not to mention they have no way of checking store stock). Video card was also out of stock at the location I went to.

I checked out the other Abit motherboards, and found a AN52V. Called the store; they said it'd be in on the 16th (today). Called today: it's web-only, I'm told, and the person that advised me otherwise mis-spoke.

I am not very happy with Tiger Direct.

Conversely, I got the memory (2 GB) and heat sink with no problem at Canada Computers (they do show their stock, per store, online).

So now, after a bit more research, it looks like there's a motherboard from Canada Computers that is adequate: Asus M2A-VM (http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=013075&cid=MB.526) ($69.99), plus the Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (2.0 GHz) from Tiger Direct for $54.99 (Canada Computers doesn't have that CPU).

Tiger Direct has the same motherboard, by the way, but it's $16 more.

The rest of the configuration will be the same - EVGA GeForce 8600 GTS, Thermaltake TMG A3 heatsink.

ETA: The customer reviews of the motherboard at Tiger Direct are positive, though; and I found a couple of detailed online reviews that were also pretty good. The board doesn't support much in the way of overclocking, but I don't do that anyway.

[AgeGap]

Hi everyone, HAL is up and running and using Ubuntu. Bearing no relation to original specs. First message from self build on board.

[Mongrel]

Hi everyone, HAL is up and running and using Ubuntu. Bearing no relation to original specs. First message from self build on board.
How did the build go and what got changed?

Oh, and well done :D

[AgeGap]

How did the build go and what got changed?

Oh, and well done :D
Donated new case with wonky fan on front. The fan looks like a jet engine but it is a little off centre so it has the effect of looking like one of the wheels on a clowns car. Donated PSU and optical drive that will read DVDs but not write them. 1.5 Gigabytes RAM, 0.5 of which was salvaged. Donated 80 Gig hard drive. Gigabyte motherboard. I think it was an AMD 3100+ processor. Wikipedia helped to find info and generally googling. Also used an out of date 'Building a PC for dummies'. On board graphics.
It was a lot easier to do than I thought. Did read up a lot though. On board graphics.