The Big Why?

[jallenecs]

OK, maybe this is naive of me. But I need to know -- for the sake of some writing I'm doing -- WHY people believe in ghosts, particularly. Why believe in something that generally scares the crap out of you?

I can't believe that they believe in ghosts because it's a sign of life after death. There are easier places to get comfort.

Any suggestions?

[Jeff Corey]

Coincidentally, I attended a lecture by Joe Nickell, CSICOP Senior Research Fellow, on LI tonight. He pointed out that people sometimes experience "waking dreams"(hypnogogic and hypnopompic experiences) that are very convincing. Upon falling asleep or upon waking, people see and sometimes hear another being in their bedroom. Aliens, spirits of dead relatives, whatever. And we discussed someone we both know who had such an experience when she was 17 or so after her grandmother died. And she was always puzzled by her experience until Prof. Robert Baker (also of CSICOP) explained it at a NYASk lecture about 12 years ago.
And she was not scared by seeing her dead grandmother or hearing her say in her Sicilian accent, "It'sa OK, Elena." She felt it to be comforting, but still puzzling.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by jallenecs
OK, maybe this is naive of me. But I need to know -- for the sake of some writing I'm doing -- WHY people believe in ghosts, particularly. Why believe in something that generally scares the crap out of you?

I can't believe that they believe in ghosts because it's a sign of life after death. There are easier places to get comfort.

Any suggestions?

The origin of the belief is that some people actually do see ghosts. Not that there are real ghosts, just that some people see them.

Of course, once it becomes part of the culture, it perpetuates itself. Sometimes as part of a religion, sometimes in spite of religious beliefs to the contrary.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred


The origin of the belief is that some people actually do see ghosts. Not that there are real ghosts, just that some people see them.

Of course, once it becomes part of the culture, it perpetuates itself. Sometimes as part of a religion, sometimes in spite of religious beliefs to the contrary.
OK, but I think the question was why. Saying that it's part of the culture doesn't explain how it got there in the first place.
Why ghosts? Why not giant soul-sucking slugs? Why not psychic teacups? Why ghosts?
Some (Some, 1999) has argued that this silly notion arises from our fear of death and that belief in the afterlife comforts us.
Not me, I don't get one.

[SquishyDave]

Yea, I went on a trip around Scotland, I couldn't walk two steps without falling over a ghost story, that was in fact before I was a confirmed skeptic, but I went on the trip to try to find a ghost, not really thinking I would.

I went to a fair few haunted places, and never saw a ghost, but the point is, there were so many ghost stories, all told convincingly, with little details that added credibility. Hell someone told me they heard a ghost breathing in their ear at their own house, they sure believed it, and if I was on the fence this person was so sincere what do you think I would do?

There is just too many ghost stories, and it's so bloody easy to see a ghost, there is a thread around here somewhere in which people were saying how they saw ghosts, and then saying what they turned to actually be.

Ahhh here tis, makes a good read.
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26716

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

OK, but I think the question was why. Saying that it's part of the culture doesn't explain how it got there in the first place.
Why ghosts? Why not giant soul-sucking slugs? Why not psychic teacups? Why ghosts?
Some (Some, 1999) has argued that this silly notion arises from our fear of death and that belief in the afterlife comforts us.
Not me, I don't get one.

Because some people actually do see ghosts. That is to say apparitions of hostile dead people.

The cultural thing only explains the belief of people who don't see them.

Comforting afterlife beliefs were probably a much later development.

[jallenecs]

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred


Because some people actually do see ghosts. That is to say apparitions of hostile dead people.

The cultural thing only explains the belief of people who don't see them.

Comforting afterlife beliefs were probably a much later development.

I'm sorry, I don't agree. yes, I have heard things and seen things that might be interpreted as ghost-like. And to this day, I won't spend the night in my grandmother's house. But that doesn't mean that I believe in ghosts; instead, I believe in the power of my own mind to make patterns appear where none were before.

I already know that part of my problem is that I have a massively overactive imagination. I psych myself out EVERY time. That, combined with the creaks of an old house settling, or the wind moving a tree branch in just the right way, or whatever, is enough to scare the crap out of me.

I don't avoid cemeteries at night or my grandmother's house, or "haunted places" because I believe in ghosts. I avoid them because I know that I generally scare myself a hell of a lot better (and faster) than Granny's disembodied spirit ever could.

What I don't understand is the NEED for some people to go out there, and psych themselves out, scare the crap out of themselves. Why would a ghost hunter do it?

[Leroy]

Originally posted by jallenecs
OK, maybe this is naive of me. But I need to know -- for the sake of some writing I'm doing -- WHY people believe in ghosts, particularly. Why believe in something that generally scares the crap out of you?

I can't believe that they believe in ghosts because it's a sign of life after death. There are easier places to get comfort.

Any suggestions?

I know only a handful of people who believe in ghosts, none of them think they are scarry.

[Bentspoon]

Just speculating,

I believe that it has come about this way for a couple of reasons.

1st) I subscribe to the Joe Nickell theory - that there is a waking dream period that is very prone to fantasy/reality confusion. Add to that the most profound emotional experience that one can have throughout the ages - the death of a loved one - and you are going to see dead people - it is simply natural

2nd) this is my own speculative theory. It is well known that man's brain tries to make patterns out of random visual stimuli. E.g., a random pattern of shadows on the wall looks like a fleeting ghost. Or an ink splot or cloud looks like something. I believe this is a natural defense strategy that probably evolved because it is favorable to survival. Predatory animals use visually confusing patterns for camoflauge. The primitive hominid that is predisposed to fill in patterns will see just a hint of a large cat's face in the bush - not enough to make it out but enough for a pattern generating brain to make it into a cat face - and will avoid the confrontation. The primitive hominid that does not generate the pattern does not know to avaid the situation and becomes lunch thereby precluding reproduction. Of course this ability to generate patterns is going to be wrong at times - seeing something where nothing is - but those that have it will survive and that is what nature is all about - survival, just survival (stick that in your hat grand designers). Therefore we are left with this ability/curse and mankind will forever see ghosts and monsters where there is nothing but a hint.

Bentspoon

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by SquishyDave
Yea, I went on a trip around Scotland, I couldn't walk two steps without falling over a ghost story...
Hey, can you spell "Scottish Tourist Board" (now known to its many friends as "visitscotland.com")?

Going back to the bit about the weird dreams. I was scared out of my wits by one of these. I seemed to be having a nightmare. Don't know what about. But then I seemed to wake up, disconcerted and still spooked. I was lying on my back, and I sat up a little. The room was quite dark. Then something grabbed my duvet by both bottom corners and pulled, hard, shaking it up and down (sort of like you'd do if you were trying to fluff the filling back up to the top). I totally freaked.

Then I woke up, and I was lying face DOWN, the room was relatively light, and my duvet was entirely undisturbed. I'd "woken up" into another nightmare, that was all. But what if I'd convinced myself that the two "awakenings" were hours apart, and equally real?

Edited to add: Maybe they were!!!

Rolfe.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by jallenecs


I'm sorry, I don't agree. yes, I have heard things and seen things that might be interpreted as ghost-like. And to this day, I won't spend the night in my grandmother's house. But that doesn't mean that I believe in ghosts; instead, I believe in the power of my own mind to make patterns appear where none were before.

I already know that part of my problem is that I have a massively overactive imagination. I psych myself out EVERY time. That, combined with the creaks of an old house settling, or the wind moving a tree branch in just the right way, or whatever, is enough to scare the crap out of me.

I don't avoid cemeteries at night or my grandmother's house, or "haunted places" because I believe in ghosts. I avoid them because I know that I generally scare myself a hell of a lot better (and faster) than Granny's disembodied spirit ever could.

What I don't understand is the NEED for some people to go out there, and psych themselves out, scare the crap out of themselves. Why would a ghost hunter do it?

OK so that's you with a rational point of view in modern times with all sorts of ideas floating around. What about some poor primitive (a real primitive in prehistory, not a present day "primitive"), with no real religion but not a rationalist. In his dreams or as he's waking up he sees the man he killed or the father he disobeyed.

Fear of ghosts is very definitely anterior to comforting beliefs. A bad conscience or indigestion requires less sophistication than thought-out priestcraft.