Hagee: Hitler was god's instrument for creation of Isreal

[headscratcher4]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.html

And McCain wanted this guy's endorsement?

[Daylight]

If anyone deserved to be thrown under the bus this Hagee sure does.

With all the weird mistakes McCain has made lately I wonder if he mentally is all there, let alone mentally sufficent to be POTUS.

[kallsop]

The dude's as nuts as Wright, only without the 20+ years attendance factor which makes it somewhat tangential to McCain.

[carlvs]

If anyone deserved to be thrown under the bus this Hagee sure does.

More like thrown under the bus, then sterilized with one of these babies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzar_bomb) ...:D

[headscratcher4]

If anyone deserved to be thrown under the bus this Hagee sure does.



Let's just hope the bus driver is smart enough to back-up and have another go at him.

[corplinx]

Aside from the sensational headline, Hagee is merely using the frequently used doctrine that all happens as God intends according to his plan.

There's nothing really to see here except cheap exploitation and an easy Godwin.

The Catholicism and Islam comments are the stuff that truly show a bigoted personality but they didn't get enough press attention so now we get this rubbish.

[Brainster]

I think that fatalism is wrong as doctrine; not that anybody around here (including me) is very interested in discussing doctrine. I was always taught that evil exists because God allows free will, but that does not mean that God wants evil, or that it's all part of his plan.

But you never know, this might scare some Jews away from McCain, even though the article notes that AIPAC apparently likes Hagee.

[Darth Rotor]

even though the article notes that AIPAC apparently likes Hagee.
Well, Israel and the original Zionists owe the creation of Israel in part to the support of Protestant Evangelism, so one would hope that AIPAC would give credit where credit is due, even if at a few generations' remove.

Then again, the conflation of Israel Security and US Security, outside of AIPAC, seems to come most often from Pentacostals.

DR

[Tsukasa Buddha]

This situation is obviously different from Wright. Of course, that doesn't entirely free McCain because he sought Hagee's endorsement, and has still stuck with him. McCain's was a political choice, Obama's a religious one.

[boloboffin]

Hagee has just as much biblical precedent for making his pronouncement as Jeremiah Wright did for damning America. It's all right there in the B-I-B-L-E.

Hagee was probably preaching from the book of Jeremiah. I know Reverend Wright was. The lamenting prophet has caused more trouble in this world. His message was a particular galling one to Israel, as it's written. Surrender to Babylon. The alliance with Egypt is going to destroy this nation. God has raised Babylon up to punish us for our sins.

Saying Hitler is the tool God used to create the nation of Israel is a direct corollary of this message. So is damning America for her laundry list of sins.

However, the last we hear of Jeremiah, he's been taken against his will to Egypt along with some other refugees from the Babylonian invasion of Israel. One fine day he walks out to a broad Egyptian courtyard and digs a hole right in its center. He buries a brick there. Someone asks him what the :rule10 he thinks he's doing, and he replies, "One year from now, the Babylonian king will erect his throne right over this brick."

We don't hear anything more about the man after that. I'm sure Hagee and Wright both are well aware of Jeremiah's fate.

[Cleon]

But you never know, this might scare some Jews away from McCain, even though the article notes that AIPAC apparently likes Hagee.

AIPAC has no problem working with anti-Semites as long as they support Israel. Hagee is merely one of many.

[timhau]

This Hagee guy could be on to something. I mean, look at street preachers, for example; Yahweh's choice of instruments has always left something to be desired.

[Oliver]

AIPAC has no problem working with anti-Semites as long as they support Israel. Hagee is merely one of many.


After sawing several parts of Hagee's speech in front of AIPAC in 2007, he surely rather sounds like a completely crazy mf'in fundamentalist than an anti-semite... :

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/11107483891cb3deda.gif Endgame: A Future Scenario for Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHtgYCS12ZE)

[MaGZ]

Well, Israel and the original Zionists owe the creation of Israel in part to the support of Protestant Evangelism, so one would hope that AIPAC would give credit where credit is due, even if at a few generations' remove.

Then again, the conflation of Israel Security and US Security, outside of AIPAC, seems to come most often from Pentacostals.

DR

I think the Christian Zionist support for Israel grew gradually and was not a major factor at the time of Israel’s founding. The only preacher I know who was pushing "end times" being related to the birth of Israel in the 1950's was Garner Ted Armstrong.

[Abdul Alhazred]

The Zionist movement started in the 19th century wasn't religious. The idea was a return to the ancestral homeland within the territory of what was the Ottoman Empire. Because Europe wasn't a good place for Jews.

If anything, the state of Israel would have been founded a few years earlier if it were not for the Germans.

That said, there are some Orthodox Jews (not all, and this is a point of contention) who say something similar to what Hagee said.

It's the old "battered wife syndrome with an imaginary husband in the sky".

[Oliver]

If anything, the state of Israel would have been founded a few years earlier if it were not for the Germans.


Are you sure about that? :confused: - The main argument about that is that the 'Judenverfolgung' was a major factor to fuel and to speed up the zinonist
movement and the creation of Israel. Not the other way around...

[Abdul Alhazred]

Sure Second World War provided impetus toward the State of Israel afterward.

But the Balfour Declaration was right after the First World War and related to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and the British "Palestine Mandate". However the British had other things to worry about, including Arab nationalism.

Once the Second World War started, what were the Zionists supposed to do then? Fight the British?

[Beerina]

This Hagee guy could be on to something. I mean, look at street preachers, for example; Yahweh's choice of instruments has always left something to be desired.

You'd think Yahweh would be a little more efficient about getting the word out than using insane bums and greedy charlatans as proxies to spread nebulous, unprovable threats of eternal torture to His beloved children.

[Darth Rotor]

I think the Christian Zionist support for Israel grew gradually and was not a major factor at the time of Israel’s founding. The only preacher I know who was pushing "end times" being related to the birth of Israel in the 1950's was Garner Ted Armstrong.
Sorry, we are not speaking in the same framework. Look at the 18th and 19th century in Britain, and the Protestant Evangelical revival that took place, for the influence I was referring to. Your "End Times" reference is after the fact. Also, I said "in part." The geopolitical consideration of looting the Ottoman lands, and the Mosul oil fields, were certainly pragmatic issues of empire.

Think of cultural and social forces, conventional wisdom, memes, etc, that informed Victorian era policy making, and the eventual Balfour framework.

FWIW, I agree with Tuchmann's analysis on the symbolism of Jerusalem among (some) Protestants as an underlying influence on the policy makers who were for allying with the Zionists. There were also ministers in the UK who were anti, also for varying reasons.

Here in the US, the close identification with Jerusalem and end times, and Israel, by some strains of Protestantism is chilling, for me at least.

DR

[varwoche]

Lieberman To Speak At Hagee Summit (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/05/28/politics/horserace/entry4132687.shtml)

If I had any respect for Lieberman it would be greatly diminished.