Everything Happens for a Reason?

[rjwould]

What does that phrase mean to you?

To me it means that everything that people or animals do, they do for a reason, or that there is a cause and effect in all occurrences.

I do not however believe in any cosmic or predetermined reasons due to any God or anything similar.

[Rufo]

To me, it could also mean that many of the 'reasons' why things happen are actually invented by us after they happen, and we can be very inventive in coming up with reasons.

[Moochie]

What is the universe the "effect" of?

Just wonderin'.


M.

[I Ratant]

Attributing "everything" to divine interference trivializes the divinity.
OTOH, the "reason" behind accidents etc, is just reality. Running the stop sign, hitting your thumb with the hammer, sparrows falling, that's just life.
Life in essence has no "reason" to be, it just is.
The world and universe would get along quite well without life, especially the way we humans interfere with natural processes.

[rjwould]

What is the universe the "effect" of?

Just wonderin'.


M.I don't understand the question. Perhaps you could clarify it for me?

[rjwould]

Attributing "everything" to divine interference trivializes the divinity.
OTOH, the "reason" behind accidents etc, is just reality. Running the stop sign, hitting your thumb with the hammer, sparrows falling, that's just life.
Life in essence has no "reason" to be, it just is.
The world and universe would get along quite well without life, especially the way we humans interfere with natural processes.I wonder if it is plausible to say that everything we humans do is part of the 'natural' process?

[Quinn]

I once had the following conversation with a colleague who was a major-league new age hippie fruitcake:

HIM: [Blah blah blah, woo woo woo] because everything happens for a reason. Do you believe everything happens for a reason, Quinn?

ME: I believe that that's a true statement, but I strongly suspect that what you mean by it, and what I mean by it, are two very different things.

I think he got my meaning, because he dialed that stuff way down after that.

[shadron]

It is simply wishful thinking, a "feel-good" phrase to utter to anyone who is going through bad times. It is a soft plea/demand that the afflicted person look for a bright side. While not necessarily religious, it usually has that connotation: "you can't know all the reasons for this, likely god has something in the works". If said person should take umbrage and punch you out, you earned it.

[I Ratant]

I wonder if it is plausible to say that everything we humans do is part of the 'natural' process?
.
Sure.
Some of it has poor results, but it's all still "natural", even when considering the aberrant minds that do some of the bad things we all see and experience.
Couldn't be anything else.

[six7s]

What does that phrase mean to you?

It confuses me

Please explain the reason behind (hungry) herbivores 'ignoring' meat

[Rufo]

It confuses me

Please explain the reason behind (hungry) herbivores 'ignoring' meat
They think it tastes yucky?

[Showmeproof]

We live in a random and chaotic universe, so I do not believe that events happen for a reason. It is just a way for people to console themselves during bad times.

[fromdownunder]

"Everything happens for a reason" is probably true, but if so, it is trivially true. If a tree drops a branch in the middle of a forest, a reason for this event could be established by using the scientific method. But who really cares?

This could be said of pretty much any event I suspect. Of course the more complex the event, the more difficult it would be to establish "the reason(s)" for it - all the way up to impossible.

Norm

[Kochanski]

It is what people say when they don't know what to say about something or when they want to sound profound. It is meaningless really.

[UnrepentantSinner]

We live in a random and chaotic universe, so I do not believe that events happen for a reason. It is just a way for people to console themselves during bad times.

This might be semantics, but I disagree with your first statement being universally applicable. For example, the bolt of lightning that strikes me is random and the result of chaotic forces. The reason I was struck by it was because I was outside at the time instead of taking shelter.

Of course I'm using reason in the cause/effect sense, not in the purpose sense.

[Mobyseven]

Sure, many things happen for reasons. But not the comforting, 'god type' reasons people think.

"Billy got squashed by a falling boulder! Oh, the huge manatee! Surely this must be part of a divine plan?"

"Actually ma'am, I think that was gravity."

[Showmeproof]

This might be semantics, but I disagree with your first statement being universally applicable. For example, the bolt of lightning that strikes me is random and the result of chaotic forces. The reason I was struck by it was because I was outside at the time instead of taking shelter.

Of course I'm using reason in the cause/effect sense, not in the purpose sense.


Then my mistake for being vague. I did mean more in the "purpose" sense. :)

[Moochie]

I don't understand the question. Perhaps you could clarify it for me?

Sorry, I do note that you said "people or animals." But why so exclusive? What is meant by "for a reason," if not in the sense of cause/effect, in which case we're usually stating what is quite obvious about all kinds of events, whether performed by humans or animals or by that to which we characteristically refer to as "nature"?


M.

[pgwenthold]

One of the things I hold true in my life is that sometimes, s*** happens for no reason at all.

Like when you trip over a crack in the sidewalk, or are walking up steps and "miss."

[RandFan]

You don't really think the urge to fart is random do you? Farting has the mark of purpose written all over it.

[Gazpacho]

It is a verbal faux pas spoken by people who have heard someone else say it, don't know why, but assume that it must be appropriate for some reason.

[Nogbad]

Every choice taken precludes other choices, every door closed means another has to be tried as sitting outside the closed one is a tad forlorn. Retrospectively one can put meaning onto the choices and forced diversions if one so chooses. Some people choose to do so with a vengeance.

However as Keynes said "in the long term we are all dead". Consequently, I try to enjoy the journey as much as possible because the terminus is terminal.

[billydkid]

Please believe this because it brings them comfort. I pretty much believe this is an American phenomena - people in the rest of the world have seen enough senseless horror in living memory to have discarded such infantile fantasies.

[rjwould]

Sorry, I do note that you said "people or animals." But why so exclusive? What is meant by "for a reason," if not in the sense of cause/effect, in which case we're usually stating what is quite obvious about all kinds of events, whether performed by humans or animals or by that to which we characteristically refer to as "nature"?


M.Because humans and animals make choices and are self determinant.

[RandFan]

Because humans and animals make choices and are self determinant.Debatable.

[billydkid]

Please believe this because it brings them comfort. I pretty much believe this is an American phenomena - people in the rest of the world have seen enough senseless horror in living memory to have discarded such infantile fantasies.Of course, I meant to say "People believe this....." what the hell is wrong with me that I can't type a sentence? "Please believe this....." is ridiculous. I don't care if somebody "please believes..." anything.

[six7s]

Please believe this because it brings them comfort. I pretty much believe this is an American phenomena - people in the rest of the world have seen enough senseless horror in living memory to have discarded such infantile fantasies.

Ummm... when you say "the rest of the world", where are you thinking of?

:confused: Not Asia?

:confused: Not Africa?

:confused: Not Europe?

:confused: Not South America?

[UnrepentantSinner]

Then my mistake for being vague. I did mean more in the "purpose" sense. :)

:) That's what I figured, so my comment wasn't to you directly but to the premise of the OP. I've got a thread on coincidence in Community where I mention that in a period of my life where I was wanting to investigate church/state issues I serendipitously happened upon a book that validated my views. If there's a reason - in the purpose sense - for everything, I would love for religious/woo folks to tell me why I happened to find that book at that particular time when it confimed my atheist/anti-supernaturalist views.
------------

Tangent. There's a reason **** happens. It's because we eat stuff...

[RandFan]

I would love for religious/woo folks to tell me why I happened to find that book at that particular time when it confimed my atheist/anti-supernaturalist views.God is preparing you for a test. The day will come when you will be given the opportunity to embrace god's word and become the greatest ex-atheist since C.S. Lewis. That can't happen without first becoming deeply entrenched as an atheist. Just think when you become a believer what a wonderful and faith promoting anecdote that will be. :) It's true.

[UnrepentantSinner]

God is preparing you for a test. The day will come when you will be given the opportunity to embrace god's word and become the greatest ex-atheist since C.S. Lewis. That can't happen without first becoming deeply entrenched as an atheist. Just think when you become a believer what a wonderful and faith promoting anecdote that will be. :) It's true.

Hah! I was in a car wreck back in '97 or so where I was struck by a speeding vehicle that knocked me across three oncoming lanes and two tires in my Suzuki Samurai blew out. It didn't explode, flip... I wasn't hit by southbound traffic and I wound up in the parking lot of a psychic. Some people I know claimed an angel was in my passenger seat, but no, it was just a combination of factors that resulted in me being more angry about the situation than injured.

[RandFan]

Hah! I was in a car wreck back in '97 or so where I was struck by a speeding vehicle that knocked me across three oncoming lanes and two tires in my Suzuki Samurai blew out. It didn't explode, flip... I wasn't hit by southbound traffic and I wound up in the parking lot of a psychic. Some people I know claimed an angel was in my passenger seat, but no, it was just a combination of factors that resulted in me being more angry about the situation than injured. God has a plan for you my friend. ;)

[Fiona]

People believe this because it brings them comfort. I pretty much believe this is an American phenomena - people in the rest of the world have seen enough senseless horror in living memory to have discarded such infantile fantasies.

I come across this a lot, so I do not think this is an American phenomenon. In this country (Scotland) it is never used in a "cause and effect" way: it is not that kind of statement at all. Often there is a sort of religious or "spiritual" underpinning but this is not always the case either. I think you are right that it is designed to give comfort, because I have never heard it used except when someone has experienced something pretty awful; but it does so in a rather peculiar way. It is a kind of shorthand for the proposition that we are small and we cannot see much beyond our own immediate concerns. It suggests that the way we are looking at things in this moment will not always be how we see them. It is in the same stream as "this, too, shall pass". I think it is an attempt to give someone a lifeline when they might despair. It might seem like woo but I do think it is kind and well-meant when said to another: and the fact that some people say it for themselves suggests that, for them, it is helpful in face of life's big horrors. Whatever gets you through, I suppose. I am not very hard-headed in the face of grief

[Gazpacho]

The occasion on which someone once said something like this to me (it was actually "Everything is connected" instead of "Everything happens for a reason.") was my 10-year high school reunion. I spoke to someone at the reunion, we were really connecting, and a few hours later she died of a medication overdose.

In the weeks that followed, I decided that there wasn't much to look forward to just staying in my home town, so I headed across the country to pursue bigger goals and had some success in that.

If someone had told me at the time, or even now, "It's a good thing that this person died because now you'll make something of yourself," I'd tell them to shove it.

[billydkid]

Ummm... when you say "the rest of the world", where are you thinking of?

:confused: Not Asia?

:confused: Not Africa?

:confused: Not Europe?

:confused: Not South America?You don't think the rest of the world, generally, has a better bead on reality with respect to things "happening for a reason"? or a general optimism about life? Virtually every other place in the world has been exposed in living memory to senseless horrors which can not help but color their views about the meaning of life. I think there is a unique American optimism and rosey view of life and reality which come from largely being sheltered from the horrors of life on a wide spread basis. I certainly think if WWII had been fought on American soil our perspective would be vastly different.

[I Ratant]

God has a plan for you my friend. ;)
.
Is it anything like the 4,000 children who wake today, their last, as they starve to death in the 3rd world?

[Ron_Tomkins]

It's a good question. The "everything happens for a reason" question. Indeed, the question seems to suggest something when it reality it doesn't. Most woo people say "Yes, because I believe everything happens for a reason". Well, of course it does. It's just not the "reason" that you're imagining. Evolution is just a series of casuations. One could say a series of "reasons". But not like there is a "purpose" behind it.

It would be nice to ask one of them believers "What's the reason then for thousands of millions of innocent people dying everyday?". In other words "what's the purpose"?.

[Moochie]

Because humans and animals make choices and are self determinant.

I don't know about that. When I was a child I wanted to fly like Superman, but I soon found I could only "fly" down.

These days I take a plane like everyone else.

Our "choices" are limited by reality.


M.

[Moochie]

The occasion on which someone once said something like this to me (it was actually "Everything is connected" instead of "Everything happens for a reason.") was my 10-year high school reunion. I spoke to someone at the reunion, we were really connecting, and a few hours later she died of a medication overdose.

In the weeks that followed, I decided that there wasn't much to look forward to just staying in my home town, so I headed across the country to pursue bigger goals and had some success in that.

If someone had told me at the time, or even now, "It's a good thing that this person died because now you'll make something of yourself," I'd tell them to shove it.

Yeah, I much prefer Fiona's "This, too, shall pass." Because it's true. And I've had plenty of opportunities to verify it in the past few months.


M.

[Beerina]

"It happened for a reason" means "It's part of God's plan", which actually casts doubt on God's competence and ethics, for planning for that to happen.

[rjwould]

I don't know about that. When I was a child I wanted to fly like Superman, but I soon found I could only "fly" down.

These days I take a plane like everyone else.

Our "choices" are limited by reality.


M.Don't know about what?
a) that humans and animals make choices (actually 'selections' may be a better word)
or
b)that humans and animals are self determinant?

[aggle-rithm]

My wife and I were in a church workshop about fifteen years ago. Attendees were divided into teams and discussed various theological issues and how they fit into our lives.

At one point, we were asked to come up with a slogan for our groups. Because of some of the things we had been talking about, I suggested our slogan should be, "There's a reason for everything".

One of our group, a woman who had survived a marriage to an abusive husband, objected vehemently. She told about how she had to watch, helplessly, while her husband abused her children. She said, "You can't tell me there was a reason for THAT."

That encounter shook me out of my philosophical complacency for good. I wasn't sure at the time how this new idea fit into my faith, which was then quite strong, but it has stuck with me ever since.

[aggle-rithm]

Hah! I was in a car wreck back in '97 or so where I was struck by a speeding vehicle that knocked me across three oncoming lanes and two tires in my Suzuki Samurai blew out. It didn't explode, flip... I wasn't hit by southbound traffic and I wound up in the parking lot of a psychic. Some people I know claimed an angel was in my passenger seat, but no, it was just a combination of factors that resulted in me being more angry about the situation than injured.

God was tenderizing you for more palatable consumption later. ;)

ETA: FYI, I was not struck by lightning at the moment I hit the "Submit" button.

[aggle-rithm]

What does that phrase mean to you?

To me it means that everything that people or animals do, they do for a reason, or that there is a cause and effect in all occurrences.

I do not however believe in any cosmic or predetermined reasons due to any God or anything similar.

There's one question that I find helps separate the teleological from the mechanistic:

"Why do the Sun and the Moon appear to be the same size?"

The mechanistic reason is that the ratio of two objects' distances from the Earth is the same as the ratio of their sizes. The teleological reason is...

Well, there isn't one.

I find it easy to believe that there could be similar situations in either the genetic behavioral coding of humans and other animals, or in their individual actions.

[Lanzy]

It makes sense when I state it as: "There is a reason for everything that happens."

[volatile]

It confuses me

Please explain the reason behind (hungry) herbivores 'ignoring' meat

I'll ask you the reverse: why would someone in a developed Western economy choose to eat meat when they can survive just as healthily (and maybe even more healthily), with just as interested and varied a diet based purely on plants?


http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3442333&postcount=34

People always ask me why I'm vegan. I always turn it round and ask them why they eat meat, because when I asked myself that question I never had the answer. It's just about thinking about the way you live your life, and why you hold the beliefs you do. In my humble opinion, non-dogmatic veganism is the logical and rational dietary choice; though if anyone can make the case as to why I should eat meat, please do.

[volatile]

One of our group, a woman who had survived a marriage to an abusive husband, objected vehemently. She told about how she had to watch, helplessly, while her husband abused her children. She said, "You can't tell me there was a reason for THAT."



Well, there was a reason for that. Probably several reasons - he was abused as a child; he was alcoholic; he was schizophrenic or otherwise mentally ill; whatever.

Acknowledging a reason is not the same thing as assigning blame, though I understand why she was distressed at the way the slogan was phrased. In fact, when you strain the metaphysics from the statement "everything happens for a reason", it becomes a much more palatable statement of philosophy.

Indeed, the main problem (from an ethical standpoint, at least) with that 'film' The Secret was its metaphysical position that everything really does happen for a reason in the way your acquaintance understood.

[Fnord]

"Everything Happens for a Reason" What does that phrase mean to you?


This phrase is a big, steaming pile of palliative nonsense uttered solely to give comfort to those who have suffered a loss or traumatic event, and who can not accept the fact that the Universe doesn't care.

The reason itself may be a "good" or "bad" one, but the implication is usually that "Everything happens for good".

The Bible tacks onto that last phrase "... for those who love the Lord", thus lending subtlety to a fundie's 'natural' inclination to proselytise, rather than lend assistance, in times of need.

[ExMinister]

People seem to use this to mean different things. I've heard Christians say it to imply that there is some divine plan at work that is all going to turn out for good, or perhaps a test of faith. As a New Age type, I used to say it to mean that everything happens to teach us something (presumably to become better people, or to learn to think more positively in the future to "attract" better events), or because there are angelic forces guiding us into certain opportunities or out of danger.

Even when well-intentioned, it seems insensitive, like one is downplaying what the other person is experiencing, and needless to say, I would no longer say it, nor would I want to hear it.

I'd much rather hear something that has at least some solid basis to it, like "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." At least it's arguably true.

[Moochie]

Don't know about what?
a) that humans and animals make choices (actually 'selections' may be a better word)
or
b)that humans and animals are self determinant?

Either. I don't know about that.


M.

[Fnord]

I'd much rather hear something that has at least some solid basis to it, like "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." At least it's arguably true.

I have posted three maxims above my desk at work. They are:

1) "Illegitimi Non Carborundum"
2) "Ontogeny Recapitulates Phylogeny"
3) "That Which Does Not Kill Me Has Made A Tactical Error"

;)

[Fiona]

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

Malaria?

[ExMinister]

Malaria?


"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except malaria."

That could still work. :D

Or there's always "No good deed ever goes unpunished" "It's always darkest before the dawn?"

I feel better already.

[Soapy Sam]

"Reason" is a poor word here, as it implies "intentional purpose".

Everything has a series of causes, most unknowable.

[aggle-rithm]

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except malaria."



Falling off a horse and breaking your neck?

[aggle-rithm]

Well, there was a reason for that. Probably several reasons - he was abused as a child; he was alcoholic; he was schizophrenic or otherwise mentally ill; whatever.

Acknowledging a reason is not the same thing as assigning blame, though I understand why she was distressed at the way the slogan was phrased. In fact, when you strain the metaphysics from the statement "everything happens for a reason", it becomes a much more palatable statement of philosophy.

Indeed, the main problem (from an ethical standpoint, at least) with that 'film' The Secret was its metaphysical position that everything really does happen for a reason in the way your acquaintance understood.

There are plenty of dysfunctional behaviors that have a mechanistic reason but which have people scrambling in vain to find a teleological reason.

An example would be Jeffery Dahmer's unfortunate predilection for killing people and storing their body parts in his refrigerator. His "reason" for doing it was simply that he was obeying an irrational compulsion, which can be explained by psychology but not so easily by theologians.

[ExMinister]

Falling off a horse and breaking your neck?


OK, OK. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger," unless you are talking to a critical thinking skeptic, in which case you must add, "This doesn't count if you are referring to malaria or falling off a horse and breaking your neck or any other calamity which might cripple, maim or otherwise weaken or incapacitate you permanently, the possibilities of which are many and varied, thereby rendering this quaint saying pretty much as useless as my telling you that 'everything happens for a reason.'"

[MaryCBW]

Fiona said:
"I come across this a lot, so I do not think this is an American phenomenon. In this country (Scotland) it is never used in a "cause and effect" way: it is not that kind of statement at all. Often there is a sort of religious or "spiritual" underpinning but this is not always the case either. I think you are right that it is designed to give comfort, because I have never heard it used except when someone has experienced something pretty awful; but it does so in a rather peculiar way. It is a kind of shorthand for the proposition that we are small and we cannot see much beyond our own immediate concerns. It suggests that the way we are looking at things in this moment will not always be how we see them. It is in the same stream as "this, too, shall pass". I think it is an attempt to give someone a lifeline when they might despair. It might seem like woo but I do think it is kind and well-meant when said to another: and the fact that some people say it for themselves suggests that, for them, it is helpful in face of life's big horrors. Whatever gets you through, I suppose. I am not very hard-headed in the face of grief."

Thanks for perfect explanation.
It really is like you said but here in the South people say it WAY too often. Most people who know me would not dare say it to my face. They really don't want to hear my smart butt response.

[six7s]

Please explain the reason behind (hungry) herbivores 'ignoring' meat?I'll ask you the reverse: why would someone in a developed Western economy choose to eat meat when they can survive just as healthily (and maybe even more healthily), with just as interested and varied a diet based purely on plants?

I don't know but my hunch is that, for the vast majority of humans and - perhaps - all other organisms, 'reason (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=define%3Areason&btnG=Search)' is not a deciding factor in a diet

Instead, I suspect that evolution favours species/populations that best adapt their digestive systems to take advantage of the supply of protein or whatever it takes to be 'the fittest' in a niche

[Fnord]

... interested and varied a diet based purely on plants...


Evidence?

[volatile]

I don't know but my hunch is that, for the vast majority of humans and - perhaps - all other organisms, 'reason (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&as_qdr=all&q=define%3Areason&btnG=Search)' is not a deciding factor in a diet

Instead, I suspect that evolution favours species/populations that best adapt their digestive systems to take advantage of the supply of protein or whatever it takes to be 'the fittest' in a niche

Oh, I quite agree. But it certainly is the case that for your average consumer in the USA or the UK, it is perfectly possible to make reasoned choices in regards to ones diet. As Dawkins himself has explained, we humans have been quite good at using reason to transgress the cruelty of nature in plenty of areas. With that in mind, and given that it is possible to make reasoned judgements about my dietary intake, why should I pick a meat-based one? I haven't heard a good answer to that, I'm afraid.

[volatile]

Evidence?

Evidence that vegetarians and vegans have interesting and varied diets? Just pick up any vegan or veggie cookbook... :)

[aggle-rithm]

OK, OK. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger," unless you are talking to a critical thinking skeptic, in which case you must add, "This doesn't count if you are referring to malaria or falling off a horse and breaking your neck or any other calamity which might cripple, maim or otherwise weaken or incapacitate you permanently, the possibilities of which are many and varied, thereby rendering this quaint saying pretty much as useless as my telling you that 'everything happens for a reason.'"

What about stuff that has a completely neutral effect?

Don't forget about that.

;)

[Fnord]

Evidence that vegetarians and vegans have interesting and varied diets? Just pick up any vegan or veggie cookbook... :)


Anecdotal 'evidence' that is based on their personal experiences, and not on experimentally verifiable quantitative values.

;)

[volatile]

Anecdotal 'evidence' that is based on their personal experiences, and not on experimentally verifiable quantitative values.

;)

:D

Can you present a counter-study?

[Fnord]

:D

Can you present a counter-study?


Are you asking me for proof that your assertion is not valid? Why should I accept on mere faith that the experiences of a bunch of like-minded believers have any validity? :rolleyes:

Maybe if you invited me to one of your religious services vegetarian/vegan suppers, I could draw my own opinion. In other words, what time do we eat? :drool:

:D

[JennyJo]

The philosopher Immanuel Kant said that people instinctively know that everything that happens, has a cause. He argued that people know this 'a priori', meaning that they do not need experiences first to know that this is true.

Everything happening for a reason is another matter.
My phone rang because my friend rang me.
The reason for her ringing me was that she wanted to tell me something important.

Often it's very difficult to distinguish cause and reason, sometimes it's not.

Anyway, the answer to the question if everything happens for a reason might very well be that we don't know.

[thaiboxerken]

Everything does happen because of a reason. This is a verifiable fact. However, what most people MEAN when they say "everything happens for a reason" is "everything happens for a purpose" which is complete and utter woo.

[JennyJo]

Everything does happen because of a reason. This is a verifiable fact. However, what most people MEAN when they say "everything happens for a reason" is "everything happens for a purpose" which is complete and utter woo.

Hmm...

How would you verify that everything happens for a reason? This seems very difficult to me!

Everything happens for a purpose is woo: I agree.

[six7s]

If a mime falls over in the forest, and there's no-one else there, does anyone give a toss?

[Fnord]

If a mime falls over in the forest, and there's no-one else there, does anyone give a toss?


If a tree falls in forest, and it hits a mime, does anyone care?

If a tree falls in a forest, and we've already sold the tree, does it still have quality?

If a tree falls and there is no one to see it fall, what color is the tree?

If a man speaks in the forest and there is no woman there to hear it, is he still wrong? -- George Carlin.

(All ripped from Wikipedia)

[thaiboxerken]

How would you verify that everything happens for a reason? This seems very difficult to me!

Certainly, but for everything humans have observed or experienced, this seems to be the case. So maybe it's not a "verifiable" fact, but it is a fact when looking at everything humans have experience thus far.

[JennyJo]

I can go along with that.

[dglas]

"Daddy gave you a spanking because he loves you and needed to teach you something. You may not understand it now, but you will. Dry your tears. It will all work out for best - you'll see."

[James Fox]

It seems to me that reasons are not causes and there is no planning or intent with reasons, as others have mentioned reasons can explain some elements of why. Where there appears to be random events there may be (or is likely to be) underlying explainable dynamics that can or could be demonstrated through the scientific method.

Reasons often denote forethought. As there is no apparent evidence for this notion I will reject it unless some evidence is produced that convinces me otherwise. However if by reason the OP intends to postulate a deterministic materialism which precludes notions of free will then there may be some semblance of rationality in the notion of everything or every event having a reason.

[six7s]

"Daddy gave you a spanking because he loves you and needed to teach you something he lacks adequate parenting skills and is simply perpetuating a culture of violence. You may not understand it now, but you will one day he will be dead and you will be able to dance on his grave. Dry your tears. It will all work out for best - you'll see."

Fixed that for you :D

[dglas]

Fixed that for you :D

Now, now. It serves one well to actually try to capture an idea properly before critiquing it, yes? There's a reason I put it in quotes and italics. ;)



BTW: Cause & Effect are mere conceptual conveniences. What we have are correlations. (Just to annoy the determinists.) :D

[JennyJo]

BTW: Cause & Effect are mere conceptual conveniences. What we have are correlations. (Just to annoy the determinists.) :D

Why 'mere'?

[rats]

It really is like you said but here in the South people say it WAY too often. Most people who know me would not dare say it to my face. They really don't want to hear my smart butt response.
Perhaps, but I'd like to hear your response :)

[Silentknight]

"That which fails to kill you makes you-- almost dead!"

"If a tree falls in a vacuum, does it not make a sound?"

"If we lock a priest and an altar boy in a sealed room, no one knows when or if the priest will molest the boy, so the altar boy must be regarded as simultaneously molested and unmolested until the room is opened."

[dglas]

"If we lock a priest and an altar boy in a sealed room, no one knows when or if the priest will molest the boy, so the altar boy must be regarded as simultaneously molested and unmolested until the room is opened."

Divine QM Corollary: "The act of observing a priest's ethics alters them."

[I Ratant]

Divine QM Corollary: "The act of observing a priest's ethics alters them."
.
And the parishes in the diocese have to pony up the settlements!

[slingblade]

It's a control issue, ultimately.

The idea that there might be no reason behind an event, especially behind a tragic or horrific one, means there's ulitmately no control. Many people can accept they personally have no control over a situation, but to realize no one has any control over it is frightening. "Everything happens for a reason" is a way to comfort ourselves with the notion that even if the god we can't see has reasons we can't fathom, at least he has reasons, and someone is in control.