Gotta tell you I believe more in UFO's than ghosts

[tiger]

I am not really sure I believe in little green men from space but it is totally plausible! We only have to think about the fact that we ourselves are exploring space and other planets with probes so it's not all that far fetched. Ghosts on the other hand is a hard pill to swallow! To blieve that someones intelligence and experences stay intact after death to allow them to contact the living, well I'm not ready to jump off that cliff yet with a plausible.

[slipknot0129]

i dont know how there would not be ghosts, the dead people have to be somewhere.

[The_Fire]

i dont know how there would not be ghosts, the dead people have to be somewhere.

Or nowhere at all......

[Showmeproof]

Out of all the supernatural/paranormal events, life somewhere else has always seemed the most plausible to me.

[wahrheit]

i dont know how there would not be ghosts, the dead people have to be somewhere.

There's even a word for that, it's called 'graveyard'.

[Jumile]

I'm not sure about UFOs, but I'm prepared to accept the likelihood that there is extra-terrestrial life - at least by using the infinity and probability argument. As I remember hearing it from my calculus lecturer at university many moons ago, it goes along the lines of if there's life on this world and the universe is infinite, then mathematically there has to be life on other worlds - or we ourselves don't exist. :)

UFOs? I don't know - it sounds too fanciful, and seems to be a modern displacement of the desire to believe in something higher (or more advanced) than ourselves. The old UFO poster on Mulder's office wall in The X-Files said it all for me: I WANT TO BELIEVE. (If you don't know it, type the phrase into Google Images).

Ghosts? If you believe my mother or uncle, then I've supposed seen and spoken to ghosts when I was little. Don't remember any of it, funnily enough, and they were both heavily into the Spiritualist Church at the time. I'm inclined to think it's too difficult to determine objectively first-hand, as it's usually a very emotive subject: dead relatives and such. Personally, I doubt it.

Just my 2p. Figured I'd make my first non-intro post something vaguely worthwhile. :)

[Bob Klase]

Out of all the supernatural/paranormal events, life somewhere else has always seemed the most plausible to me.

Why would extra-terrestrial life (not necessarily UFOs) be supernatural or paranormal?

[Pope130]

In that there is no question that people see things in the air that they can't identify, I think that UFOs can certainly be taken to exist.

Now, as to the question of flying saucers with little green men in them, where's the evidence?

As to ghosts, same question.

[Sunstealer]

I believe that UFOs exist. If UFO is an acronym for Unidentified Flying Object then I believe UFOs exist. Green men/space aliens/rectal probing/human-hybrid alien mutants/Mulder's sister/ well now ya got me. I dislike how people have assumed that UFO=little green men.

I've seen a UFO, it was the strangest thing I've ever witnessed and I wasn't alone, but we'll never know what it was. We checked satellite and shuttle launch data, called a number of civilian and military sources, but nothing came of it and quite honestly I'm not surprised. Even though I wrote down the observations of the event 5 mins after it happened I wish I'd gotten the other two witnesses to sign the written observation bearing in mind that we all saw the same thing and I immediately asked each person what they had seen 10 seconds after the event. One of these witnesses will now swear blind that he saw a rocket although when I ask him to describe what he saw (including shape and colour which were not observable), he swears blindly that it was a rocket even though it cannot be attributed to a rocket as the normal definition and physical restraints would apply (he thinks it was an atmospheric aberration which it may well have been but I'd like him to at least show the plausibility). People deceive themselves in order to make sense of what does not fit their perspective/reality/world view despite how /intelligent/bright/wonderful/practical/clever/<insert whatever you want here>

As for ghosts, well I've never seen a "ghost" myself. I've read plenty about people who have claimed to experience ghosts whether they be apparitions/poltergeists or whatever. I've also been told of some experiences by people I'd trust quite naturally. I've seen a "ghost" on the mobile phone on which it was captured, which I found to be astounding in it's clarity. It looked very much like the mother of a friend of mine, dressed in a white dress like a nightgown, but with the shadows, waist and other details very clear, looking directly at the camera, in the pub it was taken in.

Funnily enough my mate came around a couple of days later and I showed him the front page of the local paper and on first seeing the reproduced picture he said, "that's my mum!". Of course I'm sceptical about it's origins. My brother had also seen the image on the phone before me and before it was published. He knew the group of girls and the circumstances in which the photo was taken. The photo had been taken of one of their friends in the pub, but it wasn't until the next day that the "photographer" viewed the photo, which makes me suspicious. What to make of it? Who knows. To me it's the most astounding photograph of all time with regard to "ghosts". It's that clear. It should have made sceptic's (and believer's) sites the world over.

Unfortunately the image has been transferred from the phone to print and then the newspaper's internet site has scanned their front page so poorly that the image is laughable. :( This was the clearest photograph of a "ghost" I have ever known. I'm surprised it hasn't made the limelight. The funny thing is that the figure who is supposedly and famously "known" to haunt the pub was taunted as the ghostly apparition, however, a local historian recognised the style of dress of the figure and said that this was nowhere near the period of the local famous woman, but much more likely to be from a previous period (and subsequently another lady). Were the twenty something girls my brother and I knew rather savvy and pull a stunt with a woman from an earlier period than the one most likely to be attributed? Who knows.

I don't think that there has ever been camera footage (still or motion) that has captured a ghost or their actions. I'm sure that we would have categorically seen such such evidence. Ought to watch a bit more "Most Haunted" to find the truth eh? ;)

[tiger]

Out of all the supernatural/paranormal events, life somewhere else has always seemed the most plausible to me.

I don't really consider the UFO thing has being under the paranormal! It's more like something that has great merit but noone has proved it or is willing to prove it has happened ( If roswell really happened ). Were here and we are exploring space it's pretty hard to swallow that we are the only ones in this vast galaxy. But then you gotta wonder just how far away are they if they are out there and can they reach us. Where the hell is Kirk when you need him.

[tiger]

Why would extra-terrestrial life (not necessarily UFOs) be supernatural or paranormal?

It wouldn't be paranormal it would fall under the critiria of a scientific discovery.

[tiger]

In that there is no question that people see things in the air that they can't identify, I think that UFOs can certainly be taken to exist.

Now, as to the question of flying saucers with little green men in them, where's the evidence?

As to ghosts, same question.

Has for the ghost thing there never will be any evidence that ghosts exist but I may be wrong but I don't think so! But my point about UFO's is that we are living on this planet and exploring space by sending probes to study other planets. Pretty big galaxy out there who says where the only intellegent life in this big universe. But if your looking for proof I have none to give other than if we can live and explore the argument is solid.

[Showmeproof]

Why would extra-terrestrial life (not necessarily UFOs) be supernatural or paranormal?


Well, one definition I came across stated that "the paranormal is beyond the range of normal experience or scientific explanation." I would presume UFO's are currently beyond the range of scientific explanation. Correct me if I am wrong.

Either way, out of all the things so far that are unexplained, I would have to say that UFO's are the most plausible to exist.

[slipknot0129]

after people die they can create their own realities depending on what belief system they use, thats really the main point freedom of religion.

[Bob Klase]

I would presume UFO's are currently beyond the range of scientific explanation. Correct me if I am wrong.

The vast majority of UFOs are explained by scientific explanation, or sometimes simple observation. I may see a UFO and after a minute or two it gets closer and I can see it's an airplane.

However, I was referring to your statement

Out of all the supernatural/paranormal events, life somewhere else

Life somewhere else would be extra-terrestrial life, not UFOs.

Hence my question- why would extra-terrestrial life (not necessarily UFOs) be supernatural or paranormal?

[blutoski]

Hence my question- why would extra-terrestrial life (not necessarily UFOs) be supernatural or paranormal?

I think it's hard to extract UFOs from ETs, since they're traditionally found together in a narrative. I classify things by claim, since 'ufo' is too vague. Here are some different ways to examine ufo claims...

Claim: aliens from other worlds visit us, the government covers it up
Classifications:
* pseudoscience:: pseudophysics (requires belief in faster-than-light travel)
* pseudoscience::cryptozoology (claim that there is an unclassified life form, in this case, an extraterrestrial)
* pseudohumanities::conspiracy (the government knows, but hides the facts)


OR:

Claim: Xenu is a local warlord who stuffed rebels into a volcano and nuked them, their souls inhabit earthlings and need to be cleared, which is the source of psychiatric problems
Classifications:
* pseudoscience:: pseudophysics (ftl travel)
* pseudohumanities::conspiracy (science/gov is conspiring to hide truth about age of earth)
* pseudohumanities::conspiracy (science/gov is conspiring to hide truth about psychiatry)
* pseudoscience::healthfraud (psychiatry denial, e-meters)
* supernatural::immortality (soul is not destroyed with body)
* supernatural::reincarnation (soul can be reinserted into another body later)

Raelians are similar: mix of pseudoscience claims, supernatural claims, claims about people/politics. Erich von Daniken stuff would be the same, too, although he toned down the religion angle in later editions.

[Showmeproof]

The vast majority of UFOs are explained by scientific explanation, or sometimes simple observation. I may see a UFO and after a minute or two it gets closer and I can see it's an airplane.

However, I was referring to your statement



Life somewhere else would be extra-terrestrial life, not UFOs.

Hence my question- why would extra-terrestrial life (not necessarily UFOs) be supernatural or paranormal?

Hm, good question lol. I guess I just lump everything together as supernatural/paranormal that I would consider woo. Obviously I should not generalize. I should be stoned in the street for my inaccuracies :(

[I Ratant]

UFOs as such, non-terrestial manufactured.. (or should that be BEMufactured) objects -could- exist, based on the number of opportunities for life to form elsewhere.
Ghosts, OTOH, not much of a chance at all.

[Corsair 115]

All I can say about UFOs is of all the many purported UFO videos I've seen over the years, I can count on one hand the number that I found were genuinely mysterious. The rest were clearly either natural phenomena (e.g. aircraft, meteor, lens flare, etc.) or outright fakes.

[gdnp]

There is nothing paranormal about extraterrestrial intelligence. The SETI project, which last I heard is staffed by scientists, has spent decades and millions searching for it.

What is implausible is that such and intelligence would go to all the trouble of traveling lightyears to earth when a simple radio message would suffice.

All in all, I think the debate is akin to asking who more likely to be sworn in as the next US president, Osama Bin Laden or Adolph Hitler. Bin Laden, being (probably) alive could theoretically win, if the constitution was rapidly amended, whereas Hitler by all reliable accounts is dead. So one is impossible, whereas the other is just really really REALLY unlikely.

[slipknot0129]

the things in those ufo's probably have alot of paranormal abilities.

[Civilized Worm]

What gives you that idea?

[tiger]

All I can say about UFOs is of all the many purported UFO videos I've seen over the years, I can count on one hand the number that I found were genuinely mysterious. The rest were clearly either natural phenomena (e.g. aircraft, meteor, lens flare, etc.) or outright fakes.


Oh sure I seen a photo that was allegedly taken at the area 51 localility and it appeared to be military but the blurry picture did it no justice. But about a year or so later they had the stealth fighter hence the object in that blurry photo.

[Bob Klase]

I think it's hard to extract UFOs from ETs, since they're traditionally found together in a narrative.


That is part of the problem. UFO originally meant an object that hadn't been identified. Over the years the meaning to many people has become "something we can't identify therefore it must be little green men in spaceships". That's why I specified 'ETs- not necessarily UFO's' in the question.

[Madalch]

after people die they can create their own realities depending on what belief system they use, thats really the main point freedom of religion.

After you die, you don't get to choose anything. You're dead. You're as gone as the song that is no longer sung, or the computer program after the floppy disc is wiped with a magnet.

Nobody ever gets to choose their own reality. You can choose your beliefs, but reality is the stuff that refuses to change when you change your beliefs.

The main point of "freedom of religion" is to avoid the oppression of minorities and the religious violence that invariably follows.

[tiger]

After you die, you don't get to choose anything. You're dead. You're as gone as the song that is no longer sung, or the computer program after the floppy disc is wiped with a magnet.

Nobody ever gets to choose their own reality. You can choose your beliefs, but reality is the stuff that refuses to change when you change your beliefs.

The main point of "freedom of religion" is to avoid the oppression of minorities and the religious violence that invariably follows.


Amen!

[Soapy Sam]

UFOs are real. There are two outside my window right now. They're probably wasps, but I can't be bothered checking.
Ghosts are neural artifacts.
Of course, so are thoughts of any sort. But are thoughts imaginary?

[Cuddles]

I guess I just lump everything together as supernatural/paranormal that I would consider woo.

People often complain about the word "woo" being insulting, but this is exactly why it is useful. There are many things that can't be considered supernatural or paranormal, but still have most of the same problems like lack of evidence, nonsensical theories and so on. "Woo" is perfect for describing these. Aliens, crop circles, bigfoot and herbal medicine, to name a few, are in no way paranormal, but they are certainly woo.

[slipknot0129]

After you die, you don't get to choose anything. You're dead. You're as gone as the song that is no longer sung, or the computer program after the floppy disc is wiped with a magnet.

Nobody ever gets to choose their own reality. You can choose your beliefs, but reality is the stuff that refuses to change when you change your beliefs.

The main point of "freedom of religion" is to avoid the oppression of minorities and the religious violence that invariably follows.ok after you die if you want it like that, thats the reality you create. for me im going to do whatever i want in the universe. i agree with every religion because thats the reality they want to create.

[mayday]

Tiger, you are exactly correct. UFO's and other forms of life on far-a-way planets are real, ghosts are not.

It is true that when we die we cease to exist, even the Bible tells us this. Just as a person has no knowledge of anything prior to his birth, he will have no knowledge or consciousness of events after he is dead. He simply ceases to exist.
You can find this all through the Bible. For example, Psalms 146:3,4, Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10 and on and on.

That said, demons are real and can come to us in our deceased loved one's form to trick us and demons can invade our lives and try to influence us.

My father-in-law died recently, and his easy chair is still in his apartment, which is in the back end of our house, the chair is sitting just as it was when the EMT's carried him away after he fell asleep in the chair for the last time, never to wake again. Anyway, on the back of the chair I notice two distinct faces: not at the same time, the faces actually change from one face to another and vice versa. The first face is evil-looking with a furrowed brow. Other times, that face is gone and is replaced by what looks like a frightened face with a wide open mouth. The (what I call) frightened face is more crude and simple than the evil face, but they are still there and you can tell a difference. I have been careful not to touch or alter the chair because I am trying to make certain that I'm not just seeing things because of the lighting in the room. If I can I will take pictures of what I am talking about and post them on here.

But yes, you are correct, ghosts (disembodied entities) are not real.

[slipknot0129]

ghosts are real in my opinion. dont state state opinion as fact.

[Yeah_Right]

My father-in-law died recently, and his easy chair is still in his apartment, which is in the back end of our house, the chair is sitting just as it was when the EMT's carried him away after he fell asleep in the chair for the last time, never to wake again. Anyway, on the back of the chair I notice two distinct faces: not at the same time, the faces actually change from one face to another and vice versa. The first face is evil-looking with a furrowed brow. Other times, that face is gone and is replaced by what looks like a frightened face with a wide open mouth. The (what I call) frightened face is more crude and simple than the evil face, but they are still there and you can tell a difference. I have been careful not to touch or alter the chair because I am trying to make certain that I'm not just seeing things because of the lighting in the room. If I can I will take pictures of what I am talking about and post them on here.Sounds like a bad case of an over active imagination.

[ExMinister]

There are invisible orange elephants.

No, all the invisible elephants are purple. There are no invisible orange elephants, they are all purple, so you are wrong. And if they are not purple, they're evil demons!

Well, I can create my own reality so it's going to be an orange elephant if I believe it is!

No, it's not.

Yes, it is!

Life on other planets is plausible, at least. And unidentified flying objects are by definition real. Ghosts, aliens visiting earth and all the rest, just speculation.

[RSLancastr]

Why, how much do ghosts believe in UFOs?

[Ladewig]

after people die they can create their own realities depending on what belief system they use,

Great! I'm going to create a reality where I come back to life and am immortal. I would have thought that this created reality would have been more popular with the billions of people who have already died and created their reality, but surprisingly, Jesus was the only one to have thought of it. My afterlife is going to be Awesome.

thats really the main point freedom of religion.

My, oh my, what a shaggy non-sequitur you have there.

[gdnp]

It is true that when we die we cease to exist, even the Bible tells us this. Just as a person has no knowledge of anything prior to his birth, he will have no knowledge or consciousness of events after he is dead. He simply ceases to exist.
You can find this all through the Bible. For example, Psalms 146:3,4, Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10 and on and on.


Well, if it's in the Bible, it must be true. 'Nuff said. End of discussion. Case closed.

[tiger]

Tiger, you are exactly correct. UFO's and other forms of life on far-a-way planets are real, ghosts are not.

It is true that when we die we cease to exist, even the Bible tells us this. Just as a person has no knowledge of anything prior to his birth, he will have no knowledge or consciousness of events after he is dead. He simply ceases to exist.
You can find this all through the Bible. For example, Psalms 146:3,4, Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10 and on and on.

That said, demons are real and can come to us in our deceased loved one's form to trick us and demons can invade our lives and try to influence us.

My father-in-law died recently, and his easy chair is still in his apartment, which is in the back end of our house, the chair is sitting just as it was when the EMT's carried him away after he fell asleep in the chair for the last time, never to wake again. Anyway, on the back of the chair I notice two distinct faces: not at the same time, the faces actually change from one face to another and vice versa. The first face is evil-looking with a furrowed brow. Other times, that face is gone and is replaced by what looks like a frightened face with a wide open mouth. The (what I call) frightened face is more crude and simple than the evil face, but they are still there and you can tell a difference. I have been careful not to touch or alter the chair because I am trying to make certain that I'm not just seeing things because of the lighting in the room. If I can I will take pictures of what I am talking about and post them on here.

But yes, you are correct, ghosts (disembodied entities) are not real.

Well I didn't really say they were real but very very much possible when you consider us and the things were doing in space. I think the problem becomes just how far away are they if they exist and can they even reach us from so far away.

[Madalch]

for me im going to do whatever i want in the universe.

Go right ahead.

Can you create a reality where I believe a word you say? That would be impressive.

[SeanDamnit]

I don't know about either. UFOs as in people visiting us from another world seems highly unlikely given our current understandings about the way the universe works. Even traveling near the speed of light (extremely unlikely and extremely dangerous) wouldn't give a life form many options for exploration seeing how vast the nothingness is between stars.

[Corsair 115]

Why, how much do ghosts believe in UFOs?More importantly, can there be ghosts on a UFO?

[Cuddles]

That said, demons are real and can come to us in our deceased loved one's form to trick us and demons can invade our lives and try to influence us.

Let me guess, you've got exactly as much evidence for this nonsense as you have for your psychic nonsense?

[Ixion]

Actually, considering the possibility of life on other planets, I wonder if someone there is having this exact debate.

Mork 1: I'm telling you, UFOs are real!

Mork 2: By UFO, do you mean Unidentified Flying Objects, or ETs?

Mork 1: ETs. They come all the time. Just look at the Gillafy fields. No other Morks could make such intricate triangles. Gillafy Triangles are made by UFOs. People that claim that GTs are made with bailing wire and plows overnight are mistaken. We aren't capable of drawing such straight lines.

Mork 2: ... Hmmm... well, I don't believe in ETs visiting Alpha-Beta-Nine, but my great-uncle visits me every night. I tried to get a picture of him, but it didn't work. I can tell he is a real ghost though, because he died a few years ago, and I know it is him because I can sometimes smell cigarette smoke.

Mork 1: Doesn't your girlfriend smoke?

Mork 2: Only outside. My great-uncle was the one that smoked inside.

Mork 3: How can either of you believe in that stuff? We have probes visiting the outer reaches of our second star systems. We have the means to scientifically evaluate those claims, and none of it holds up.

Mork 1 and 2: Shut Up! Our beliefs are real, and you can't prove otherwise!

[slipknot0129]

More importantly, can there be ghosts on a UFO? they can do anything they want.

[Empress]

But yes, you are correct, ghosts (disembodied entities) are not real.


Of course, you once had a thread on ghost pictures that you'd taken. Although, to be fair, IIRC, you told me that you now believe that ghosts are visitiors from another universe. :rolleyes:

BTW, sorry about your FIL.

[wahrheit]

Of course, you once had a thread on ghost pictures that you'd taken.

Once?

[mayday]

Of course, you once had a thread on ghost pictures that you'd taken. Although, to be fair, IIRC, you told me that you now believe that ghosts are visitiors from another universe. :rolleyes:

BTW, sorry about your FIL.

I don't believe the pictures I had are of ghosts, but rather overlapping dimensions. There is a big difference there. I guess I should have chosen better words than "ghosts."

Thanks for the condolences, but it wasn't a sad time, it was a relief, actually. Had him cremated and interned at the VA cemetery. Personally, if I get to the point where people have to wipe my butt and feed me and I sit around yelling and act so hateful and needy people start to resent me...if I have enough wits about me to realize when that is going to happen, I'll do like the old Indians and walk off into the sunset. My worst fear in life is becoming a burden. Now, it would be different if I was caring for my child or a close relative, or a sweet, good-natured person who was actually likeable...but, well I'll just say Gramps is better off (and so are we). I thought my husband was going to have a very hard time but the biggest question he seemed to have was would Gramps still be entitled to get his stimulus package....I guess there comes a time for everyone when it's just time to go.

[Gene L]

I'm convinced that UFOs exist and they come from the Procto system. Upon graduating from college, they go to earth to probe guys in the butt. It's sold to them as a scientific mission, but actually it's an alien practical joke on the graduates. I mean they have millions of bytes of humans getting probed.

The alien manager of the Human Probe Council and all the members crack up when the spacecraft reports back, full of earnest young Proctolians with their detailed reports.

"Congratulations on completing your ass-ignment...now tell us, you stuck the probe WHERE?" the council president asks as other members rib each other among loud hoots of laughter, or what serves for laughter among the Protolians. The new grads come to realize they've been the butt of a practical joke, and boy are their gray faces red!

But it's all in a sense of alien humor, and no Human is really hurt, and some are reported to kinda get a thrill out of it.

[Locknar]

I don't believe the pictures I had are of ghosts, but rather overlapping dimensions. There is a big difference there. I guess I should have chosen better words than "ghosts."
Have you ever posted these pictures, and if so where? If not...how about posting them here...I'd love to see what "overlapping dimensions" look like.

[wahrheit]

Have you ever posted these pictures, and if so where? If not...how about posting them here...I'd love to see what "overlapping dimensions" look like.

This isn't one of mayday's ghosts, but pretty cool nevertheless: http://www.wackyarchives.com/offbeat/easy-do-it-yourself-ghost.html

[Cuddles]

I don't believe the pictures I had are of ghosts, but rather overlapping dimensions. There is a big difference there. I guess I should have chosen better words than "ghosts."

In what way is there a difference? They're both just you talking bollocks.

[mayday]

Have you ever posted these pictures, and if so where? If not...how about posting them here...I'd love to see what "overlapping dimensions" look like.

Yes, I posted them more than once, but this was several years ago and as I no longer have the same computer or a scanner I can't get them on at this time. They are located on one of the Tennessee Ghost Hunter websites. I will see if I can find it for you.

Ok, I found one of the pics, but it isn't even one of the best ones, but go to this link and it is the picture on the bottom right. They were up in the cemetery and in the old white house which usually smelled so musty and stinky the whole house was engulfed in this wonderful flowery smell, I was there and saw this first hand. Also, the recorded voices, doors slamming, what sounded like sticks tapping against the wall...all this was only heard when the tape was played back, not while the recording was taking place.
Oh, before I get any lame theories about the voices, the voices were directly responding to our questions. A female voice said what everyone thought sounded like Louise or Elouise in response to "what's your name?" and then the same voice responded "8" to the question "how old are you?"

http://www.tnghosthunters.com/IMAGEgallery1.htm

[Locknar]

Yes, I posted them more than once, but this was several years ago and as I no longer have the same computer or a scanner I can't get them on at this time. They are located on one of the Tennessee Ghost Hunter websites. I will see if I can find it for you.

Ok, I found one of the pics, but it isn't even one of the best ones, but go to this link and it is the picture on the bottom right. They were up in the cemetery and in the old white house which usually smelled so musty and stinky the whole house was engulfed in this wonderful flowery smell, I was there and saw this first hand. Also, the recorded voices, doors slamming, what sounded like sticks tapping against the wall...all this was only heard when the tape was played back, not while the recording was taking place.
Oh, before I get any lame theories about the voices, the voices were directly responding to our questions. A female voice said what everyone thought sounded like Louise or Elouise in response to "what's your name?" and then the same voice responded "8" to the question "how old are you?"

http://www.tnghosthunters.com/IMAGEgallery1.htmThere are several pictures there; which are yours?

As to the "voices"; unless you still have the audio and can/will post it there is no point in discussing it.

[godless dave]

ok after you die if you want it like that, thats the reality you create. for me im going to do whatever i want in the universe.

Wanting has nothing to do with it. Humans don't have the power to create reality.

I'd love to explore the entire universe rather than die, but my wanting it will not make it happen.

I am not really sure I believe in little green men from space but it is totally plausible! We only have to think about the fact that we ourselves are exploring space and other planets with probes so it's not all that far fetched.

I don't think you understand the distances involved here. We have sent probes to planets within our solar system. Alien space ships coming from other solar systems would have to travel a much, much greater distance.

[CurtC]

ok after you die if you want it like that, thats the reality you create. for me im going to do whatever i want in the universe. i agree with every religion because thats the reality they want to create.
Hey slipknot, have you ever seen The Secret? I think you'd really like it.

Of course, it's complete total BS.

[CurtC]

Here's a ghost photo for you all. The only alteration of this photo is the obscuring of the dad's and baby's faces. Everything else is genuine.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u27/kikapurider/GHOST.jpg

[arthwollipot]

Ok, I found one of the pics, but it isn't even one of the best ones, but go to this link and it is the picture on the bottom right. They were up in the cemetery and in the old white house which usually smelled so musty and stinky the whole house was engulfed in this wonderful flowery smell, I was there and saw this first hand. Also, the recorded voices, doors slamming, what sounded like sticks tapping against the wall...all this was only heard when the tape was played back, not while the recording was taking place.
Oh, before I get any lame theories about the voices, the voices were directly responding to our questions. A female voice said what everyone thought sounded like Louise or Elouise in response to "what's your name?" and then the same voice responded "8" to the question "how old are you?"

http://www.tnghosthunters.com/IMAGEgallery1.htmI can't see any ghosts (or overlapping dimensions) in the bottom right image on that page. It's the one with the trees, right? And the bright flash flare running from top to bottom? Where's the ghost?

[arthwollipot]

Actually, going further into it, picture 1A is a photo of the reflection of clouds in the water. It's an overcast day, and the sun is shining through the clouds and being reflected in the water.

Picture 1B I can't make out - it could be anything. Picture 1C looks like smoke, despite the caption. 1D is a bit of a Christmas decoration that got in-frame.

I can't see anything remotely mysterious about 1E, and 1D is a reflection of the flash off a tree in the foreground.

These are supposed to be convincing?

[Tristan Chi]

after people die they can create their own realities depending on what belief system they use, thats really the main point freedom of religion.
You're dead, right?

[Diagoras]

ok after you die if you want it like that, thats the reality you create. for me im going to do whatever i want in the universe. i agree with every religion because thats the reality they want to create.
Are you for real?

Do you think the fundamentalist Muslims who crashed planes into the Twin Towers really went to heaven and got 72 virgins for doing what they think Allah wanted them to do, just because that's what they expected?

Do you also think that dead Christians who believed they would get to heaven and watch those terrorists roasting in hell are actually in heaven watching those terrorists roast in hell?

You can't agree with everybody's religion. Sorry, but there is such a thing as actual reality. You know, some things are true and some things are false. Either Muslim prayers are effective or they aren't. Faith healers either miraculously cure diseases or they don't. Getting your thetans cleared by the Church of Scientology will either give you superhuman powers or it won't. All faithful Christians are going to one day disappear in the Rapture or they won't. You don't get to just make up reality as you go along.

The bad part about atheism being true is we won't get to say "I told you so" in the end. :¬þ

[Ladewig]

Actually, going further into it, picture 1A is a photo of the reflection of clouds in the water. It's an overcast day, and the sun is shining through the clouds and being reflected in the water.

The "ghostly" image is not seen only in the water: part of it covers the hunter's shirt. The more likely explanation is that someone used the Photoshop lighten tool in order to "create" the specter.

I agree with you that the other photos are just things too close to the lens (mostly camera straps).

[mayday]

The "ghostly" image is not seen only in the water: part of it covers the hunter's shirt. The more likely explanation is that someone used the Photoshop lighten tool in order to "create" the specter.

I agree with you that the other photos are just things too close to the lens (mostly camera straps).

You're just flat out wrong.

WRONG.

What else can you come up with? I know for a fact that wasn't a camera strap. As for the fishing picture, I wasn't there but it being a genuine picture sounds more plausible than the explanation you give. You just did an awful lot of thinking that doesn't amount to a plug nickle.

I thought you were supposed to take the more simple explanation as the right one?

Guess not.

[Locknar]

You're just flat out wrong.

WRONG.

What else can you come up with? I know for a fact that wasn't a camera strap. As for the fishing picture, I wasn't there but it being a genuine picture sounds more plausible than the explanation you give. You just did an awful lot of thinking that doesn't amount to a plug nickle.

I thought you were supposed to take the more simple explanation as the right one?

Guess not.You didn't answer my question as to which picture is yours...but I'll assume "bottom right" means picture 1F.

Camera strap, tree branch, etc; it is simply something close to the lens that was washed out by the flash. Easily repeatable with any camera (with a flash).

But of course, you knew this already.

Speaking of nickles, if you save enough of them you'll have enough to visit "Mary".

[tiger]

You're just flat out wrong.

WRONG.

What else can you come up with? I know for a fact that wasn't a camera strap. As for the fishing picture, I wasn't there but it being a genuine picture sounds more plausible than the explanation you give. You just did an awful lot of thinking that doesn't amount to a plug nickle.

I thought you were supposed to take the more simple explanation as the right one?

Guess not.

You need to change your medication! There is all kinds of fakery in the fantasy world of the paranormal!

Here watch a video i made, granted it's not the best but hey it proves the point!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIg2IJAjeNU

[mayday]

You need to change your medication! There is all kinds of fakery in the fantasy world of the paranormal!

Here watch a video i made, granted it's not the best but hey it proves the point!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIg2IJAjeNU

You don't even have a clue, Tiger.

I'm quite aware of what can be done to alter pictures. I know these people, they wouldn't fake a picture and put it up.

[Locknar]

You don't even have a clue, Tiger.

I'm quite aware of what can be done to alter pictures. I know these people, they wouldn't fake a picture and put it up.That is, however, not the same as saying they would not put a picture on their site that had been faked or otherwise altered.

[wahrheit]

I'm quite aware of what can be done to alter pictures. I know these people, they wouldn't fake a picture and put it up.


Are you talking about the link you previously posted,
http://www.tnghosthunters.com/IMAGEgallery1.htm ?

Seriously, maday, even amongst the believers in weird stuff like ghosts, those pictures are quite the lamest I have seen in a long time.

In fact, that page reads like a parody.

There's a picture of cigarette smoke lit by the camera's flash, but the caption says "No no, nobody was smoking there. I swears!!!11"

There's a picture which clearly shows a strap or similar object close to the lens, lit by the camera's flash, but the caption says "Nope! There was no strap."

I feel ashamed of my own species when grown people would even consider to consider considering that those photographic mishaps are "otherworldly."

[deep44]

I believe that life exists elsewhere in the Universe, but I don't believe we've ever witnessed any real evidence of that life (i.e., we haven't been visited). That would almost certainly involve traveling at faster than the speed of light, which is impossible according to special relativity.

That doesn't mean it's absolutely, definitely, 100% impossible - it's just impossible within the framework of our current understanding of space and time.

Given the almost-unfathomable number of stars in the Universe (10^10 in the Milky Way, 10^20 total?), I have a hard time believing that Earth's ability to support life is universally-unique. Given the astronomical (hah!) number of possibilities, I wouldn't be surprised if there were hundreds, millions, or even billions of other planets with some form of life (past or present).

EDIT: Oh yeah, and as for ghosts, I believe they exist -- but only in the minds of those who they haunt. In other words, they're entirely imaginary, but the people who "see" or otherwise experience them believe they are real. The always-grainy videos and photographs speak for themselves - people are seeing what they want to see.

[tiger]

You don't even have a clue, Tiger.

I'm quite aware of what can be done to alter pictures. I know these people, they wouldn't fake a picture and put it up.


You would be wrong about that I did take some very strange pictures in a park that is claimed to be haunted. However the very first thing I did was have them checked out by professional photographers from across the country which is something you obviously didn't do. But all the pictures came back has unexplained. They were tested for anything on the lense etc etc, not sure how they test for that but all 15 professional photographers and photo labs did that testing. I consider my photos strange but strange doesn't mean proof that ghosts exist and even if I believed they are of a ghost how could I go about proving it, well I couldn't and thats a fact. Unexplained doesn't mean it can't be explained and the photos I saw on that website your defending should have had fakery stamped on them or dellussional behaviour at work.

So tell me Mayday, why is it with all this evidence you people believe that you have caught never verified by independent labs or professionals. It just kills me that you all stand defending this crap has evidence of the paranormal and the only creditbility your evidence has is what you alone have given it! Once again you stand defending something without proof but you do have conjuncture and bad photos that in your mind just has to be a ghost because you say so! Sorry but it doesn't work that way at all.

[mayday]

Are you talking about the link you previously posted,
http://www.tnghosthunters.com/IMAGEgallery1.htm ?

Seriously, maday, even amongst the believers in weird stuff like ghosts, those pictures are quite the lamest I have seen in a long time.

In fact, that page reads like a parody.

There's a picture of cigarette smoke lit by the camera's flash, but the caption says "No no, nobody was smoking there. I swears!!!11"

There's a picture which clearly shows a strap or similar object close to the lens, lit by the camera's flash, but the caption says "Nope! There was no strap."

I feel ashamed of my own species when grown people would even consider to consider considering that those photographic mishaps are "otherworldly."

Pine away, because that wasn't a camera strap. I can't say that fishing picture wasn't smoke but I know it can happen because we took misty pictures when there wasn't fog or mist and no one was smoking.

So, I guess I've got one up on you with that.

[mayday]

EDIT: Oh yeah, and as for ghosts, I believe they exist -- but only in the minds of those who they haunt. In other words, they're entirely imaginary, but the people who "see" or otherwise experience them believe they are real. The always-grainy videos and photographs speak for themselves - people are seeing what they want to see.

I don't know about that, but I do know that since I had to start working at the nursing home again I've witnessed odd things that can't always be written off.

Like the night this old lady died. She used to ring her call light a lot and the night she died after the funeral home came and carried her off the night shift said her call light kept going off nonstop most of the night.

And just last week the aides were short handed so I helped them put some people to bed and I was in a room with a door shut and while I was tending to the patient a geri-recliner whizzed across the room, and from a stopped position.

I have talked about the time I sat on this deceased woman's bed to do my charting and how it, without fail, stirred up my aching tooth until I got off the bed. No, that wasn't a ghost but it was energy she left behind. It had to be, because my tooth did not hurt unless I was sitting on her bed, and this was tested.

Toilets have flushed before in rooms that were not occupied. These are those kinds of toilets where it takes a lot of effort to get them to flush.

I think it is naieve and ignorant not to accept that things happen we don't have an explanation for. I don't believe in ghosts but I think it could be something other than what we can explain.

[mayday]

You would be wrong about that I did take some very strange pictures in a park that is claimed to be haunted. However the very first thing I did was have them checked out by professional photographers from across the country which is something you obviously didn't do. But all the pictures came back has unexplained. They were tested for anything on the lense etc etc, not sure how they test for that but all 15 professional photographers and photo labs did that testing. I consider my photos strange but strange doesn't mean proof that ghosts exist and even if I believed they are of a ghost how could I go about proving it, well I couldn't and thats a fact. Unexplained doesn't mean it can't be explained and the photos I saw on that website your defending should have had fakery stamped on them or dellussional behaviour at work.

So tell me Mayday, why is it with all this evidence you people believe that you have caught never verified by independent labs or professionals. It just kills me that you all stand defending this crap has evidence of the paranormal and the only creditbility your evidence has is what you alone have given it! Once again you stand defending something without proof but you do have conjuncture and bad photos that in your mind just has to be a ghost because you say so! Sorry but it doesn't work that way at all.

You still don't have a clue.

The only thing hokier than this are the terrible ghost pictures used to debunk the paranormal.

[wahrheit]

There's a picture which clearly shows a strap or similar object close to the lens, lit by the camera's flash, but the caption says "Nope! There was no strap."

Pine away, because that wasn't a camera strap.

I was referring to this one: http://www.tnghosthunters.com/gallery/Fgallery1-4.jpg

What is it, if not "a strap or similar object close to the lens, lit by the camera's flash"?

[deep44]

Pine away, because that wasn't a camera strap. I can't say that fishing picture wasn't smoke but I know it can happen because we took misty pictures when there wasn't fog or mist and no one was smoking.

So, I guess I've got one up on you with that.


Film is sensitive to light. If the light spots/areas in those photographs were not present during the initial exposure (i.e., visible to the naked eye), then I believe the only plausible explanation would be light contamination during the development of each picture.

Remember, the film remains sensitive to light until about halfway through the development process. Depending on the sophistication of the lab doing the work, development can be done entirely by a machine, or manually -- starting in a (theoretically) lightproof bag w/ armholes. There are certainly opportunities for human error in the latter case, and possibly even the former.

If you believe the lights in those photos are ghosts or spirits, then what kind of light are they emitting that is bright enough to cause a very distinct overexposure on film, yet invisible to the human eye?

[tiger]

You still don't have a clue.

The only thing hokier than this are the terrible ghost pictures used to debunk the paranormal.

Hokier, you believe in ghosts and psychics and you call me hokey...really!
Okay Mayday lets make your thoughts a reality prove ghosts really exist once and for all. If you have all this evidence and you can prove ghosts exist and meduims can talk to the dead then lets have some proof! Once and for all prove it beyond any doubt!

[Ladewig]

You're just flat out wrong.

WRONG.


You're too silly to argue with, so I will try to find a modified photo to show how similar this "ghost" is to the lighten tool available in all photo editing software.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7593622@N02/2539075616/

I thought you were supposed to take the more simple explanation as the right one?


I did, why don't you try it?

[mayday]

You're too silly to argue with, so I will try to find a modified photo to show how similar this "ghost" is to the lighten tool available in all photo editing software.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7593622@N02/2539075616/



I did, why do you try it?

No, you didn't.

I think you're the one who is silly, and you don't like it because the link to the picture you posted is YET ANOTHER example of the bad photography you use to try to prove a point, and you only choose the worst ones because they are so easily proved.

[Diagoras]

There are good ones? LOL!

[wahrheit]

There are good ones? LOL!

Good question. :)

Mayday, you forgot to answer my question above. What is it, if not "a strap or similar object close to the lens, lit by the camera's flash"?

[Locknar]

No, you didn't.

I think you're the one who is silly, and you don't like it because the link to the picture you posted is YET ANOTHER example of the bad photography you use to try to prove a point, and you only choose the worst ones because they are so easily proved.Speaking of proving things.... You've claimed your picture on that site is 1F; what kind of camera did you use, time of day, location, camera settings, film?

Now...I'm sure you'll either not reply, or reply with something along the lines "it was to long ago, I can't remember"; science is exact, and a cruel mistress.

If you can't/won't provide specifics then your claim on this issue can only be viewed as baseless....

[Yeah_Right]

I don't know about that, but I do know that since I had to start working at the nursing home again I've witnessed odd things that can't always be written off.

Like the night this old lady died. She used to ring her call light a lot and the night she died after the funeral home came and carried her off the night shift said her call light kept going off nonstop most of the night.

And just last week the aides were short handed so I helped them put some people to bed and I was in a room with a door shut and while I was tending to the patient a geri-recliner whizzed across the room, and from a stopped position.

I have talked about the time I sat on this deceased woman's bed to do my charting and how it, without fail, stirred up my aching tooth until I got off the bed. No, that wasn't a ghost but it was energy she left behind. It had to be, because my tooth did not hurt unless I was sitting on her bed, and this was tested.

Toilets have flushed before in rooms that were not occupied. These are those kinds of toilets where it takes a lot of effort to get them to flush.

I think it is naieve and ignorant not to accept that things happen we don't have an explanation for. I don't believe in ghosts but I think it could be something other than what we can explain.


Well if all this stuff were happening to me while working in an nursing home, I think I'd bring a video camera along to try to get some documentation. I have to ask if anyone else is experiencing this as well. It is difficult to tell if this stuff is actually going on when it is just told in a message board. Anecdotal stuff you know.

[mayday]

Well if all this stuff were happening to me while working in an nursing home, I think I'd bring a video camera along to try to get some documentation. I have to ask if anyone else is experiencing this as well. It is difficult to tell if this stuff is actually going on when it is just told in a message board. Anecdotal stuff you know.

I have to go to bed so I will get to Locknar tomorrow, but as for a camcorder in the nursing home, that could be a serious violation of HIPAA, and they are really coming after people for that nowadays.

[Jesus Baby Daddy]

Hmm. The answer is here. http://scoobyfiles.toonzone.net/casefiles/seasonone/ssk.html
UFO's and Ghosts do not exhist. It was the old farmer all along!

[Locknar]

I have to go to bed so I will get to Locknar tomorrow, but as for a camcorder in the nursing home, that could be a serious violation of HIPAA, and they are really coming after people for that nowadays.Excellent, looking forward to your answers.

WRT the video camera suggest; you mention "that could be a serious violation of HIPAA" - how so?

For that matter, what nursing home? Have you documented these "strange" happenings, kept a log, have any witnesses? Have you reported these happenings to any of the "ghost hunting" groups such as the one you provided a picture to? Has this been reported to any local media?

[Ixion]

I am not saying that I agree with Mayday about her belief in ghosts, but she is correct about using a camcorder in a nursing home would be a violation of HIPAA regulations. Anything that could be used to identify patients and the treatment they might be recieving that could become available to the public is strictly off-limits.

Mayday, I know you are very passionate about your stance in the belief in ghosts. You seem to be getting very upset from this thread. Instead of getting upset, could you provide any falsifiable evidence that what is in the photos are ghosts? Some of the people here are genuinely doing what skeptics do, and that is look for all possibilities of an unusual cicumstance. Then they just apply Occam's Razor. What is more likely, someone smoking, or a phantasm? A camera strap, or shadow people from an overlapping dimension?

[Yeah_Right]

I am not saying that I agree with Mayday about her belief in ghosts, but she is correct about using a camcorder in a nursing home would be a violation of HIPAA regulations. Anything that could be used to identify patients and the treatment they might be recieving that could become available to the public is strictly off-limits.

Mayday, I know you are very passionate about your stance in the belief in ghosts. You seem to be getting very upset from this thread. Instead of getting upset, could you provide any falsifiable evidence that what is in the photos are ghosts? Some of the people here are genuinely doing what skeptics do, and that is look for all possibilities of an unusual cicumstance. Then they just apply Occam's Razor. What is more likely, someone smoking, or a phantasm? A camera strap, or shadow people from an overlapping dimension?

Fair enough about the HIPAA regulations, so really no one could do any sort of photography to get verifications.

I could say for the lights turning off and on after the woman died could be related to faulty wiring. But the geri-recliner bolting from a stopped position is harder to explain, unless it never happened, or it was accidentally moved somehow. And the toothache? Hard to say what happened there since I am not an expert in human anatomy. I'll hazard a guess though and say that sitting somehow put stress on some nerve endings that caused it to hurt more. Just a wild guess there of course. Of course it would have to happen in other circumstances. I do wonder why this diseased womans "energy" just focused on the tooth though.

[Locknar]

Fair enough about the HIPAA regulations, so really no one could do any sort of photography to get verifications.
More to the point...unless Mayday can provide information such as witnesses, the name of the nursing home, etc. then it is nothing more then a camp fire story; much like the story involving dry gun lube from another thread.

[Ixion]

I have seen reference to said dry gun lube thread in another thread as well. However, I have not yet had the pleasure of reading it myself.

[Lithrael]

Until everybody finally goes digital, there will still be plenty of chemical processing errors getting called ghosts. Most of those 'there was no smoke when I took this picture/mysterious soft blurry light' photos look like fixer or other chemical bath problems, which can sneak in during development of negative or print, and plenty of 'blob' photos look like the emulsion of the negatives got pressed/stuck to something while developing. Ooh and then there's water marks and and.. I'll shut up now.

[Yeah_Right]

More to the point...unless Mayday can provide information such as witnesses, the name of the nursing home, etc. then it is nothing more then a camp fire story; much like the story involving dry gun lube from another thread.

I'm stating the obvious here, but until we can, say, contain a ghost in a lab for study, all ghost stories are nothing but camp fire fables.

[mayday]

I am not saying that I agree with Mayday about her belief in ghosts, but she is correct about using a camcorder in a nursing home would be a violation of HIPAA regulations. Anything that could be used to identify patients and the treatment they might be recieving that could become available to the public is strictly off-limits.

Mayday, I know you are very passionate about your stance in the belief in ghosts. You seem to be getting very upset from this thread. Instead of getting upset, could you provide any falsifiable evidence that what is in the photos are ghosts? Some of the people here are genuinely doing what skeptics do, and that is look for all possibilities of an unusual cicumstance. Then they just apply Occam's Razor. What is more likely, someone smoking, or a phantasm? A camera strap, or shadow people from an overlapping dimension?

Upset? I'm not getting upset.

To keep from going in circles, camera straps, smoke, fog, breath, bugs, radio interference... have been ruled out, and have been ruled out time and again because everyone and his brother on here keeps concluding that is what it was.

[wahrheit]

To keep from going in circles, camera straps, smoke, fog, breath, bugs, radio interference... have been ruled out

No, they have not been ruled out. Maybe in the fantasy world you would prefer to live in, but not in real life.

[Locknar]

To keep from going in circles, camera straps, smoke, fog, breath, bugs, radio interference... have been ruled out, and have been ruled out time and again because everyone and his brother on here keeps concluding that is what it was.Ruled out by whom...you, because you “said so”? That is hardly convincing.

At any rate…still waiting to get some of the specifics on the picture you claim you took, and any information you can pass along on the “haunted” nursing home you claim to work at.

[mayday]

Fair enough about the HIPAA regulations, so really no one could do any sort of photography to get verifications.

I could say for the lights turning off and on after the woman died could be related to faulty wiring. But the geri-recliner bolting from a stopped position is harder to explain, unless it never happened, or it was accidentally moved somehow. And the toothache? Hard to say what happened there since I am not an expert in human anatomy. I'll hazard a guess though and say that sitting somehow put stress on some nerve endings that caused it to hurt more. Just a wild guess there of course. Of course it would have to happen in other circumstances. I do wonder why this diseased womans "energy" just focused on the tooth though.


1. Why would the faulty wiring only act up the night after the woman died and not act up again, and didn't act up before that, either?

2. I've wondered, too, if the geri-recliner shooting across the floor really happened or if something else happened. I say this because it seems so ludicrous it would do this, yet it did.

3. Sitting didn't put a stress on my nerve endings except when I sat on that bed. To me, I guess since it was directly related to my body, has been the biggest deal because I could verify what was happening. I think it focused on the tooth because it was so sensitive at the time.

[mayday]

Ruled out by whom...you, because you “said so”? That is hardly convincing.

At any rate…still waiting to get some of the specifics on the picture you claim you took, and any information you can pass along on the “haunted” nursing home you claim to work at.

You know, I tried to believe you weren't needling me and trying to rattle my cage for oh, about the first two times I responded to you, but you keep proving that you aren't interested in what has happened, you only like to provoke. I was trying not to be like the woman who does laundry at the nursing home. She has a physical deformity (one leg shorter than the other) and walks with a very visible limp. A month ago I had broken my toe and this caused me to walk with a limp. Working in a nursing home we all move pretty quick, and she was pushing the clothes cart and I was walking behind her. We were both walking briskly and both limping. She suddenly turned around and saw me walking with my limp and I knew by the look on her face she thought I was mocking her. She gives me dirty looks now and won't even speak to me.
This really bothers me because I would never do such a thing, and if I had a way to let her know this I would, but bringing it up would make things worse, I think. So, I'm trying to let this die down. But you are doing the opposite, and rather than be apologetic you are trying to needle and provoke to make things worse than they are.

I'm offering serious accounts of my experiences with the unexplained. You are trying to poke fun at me. Shame on you.

[Locknar]

I'm offering serious accounts of my experiences with the unexplained. You are trying to poke fun at me. Shame on you.Asking for clarification and/or information on your claims is “needling”? I’d argue you are doing just the opposite, that is to say offering wild and otherwise baseless explanations for your claimed (and perfectly explainable) experiences.

Rather then address the issue at hand, and provide specifics on your claimed picture, or the “haunted” nursing home you claim to work at...you’ve played the ever popular with the "woo woo" crowd pitty card.

So...the picture you claim you took; can you provide any information about it? Location, camera used, settings, time of day, film (if not digital), etc?

The "haunted" nursing home you claim to work at...location, name, witnesses, etc? Certianly, if these events occure as frequently as you claim, there are other nurses (for example) that have witnessed and willing to come forward. Why not invite them here...where they can offer their own accounts.

Wild claims with no supporting information are just that – wild claims; camp fire stories and nothing more...kind of like the "dry lube" story.

[Ixion]

Upset? I'm not getting upset.

To keep from going in circles, camera straps, smoke, fog, breath, bugs, radio interference... have been ruled out, and have been ruled out time and again because everyone and his brother on here keeps concluding that is what it was.

My brother does not post here, but I think he would be asking the same questions I am.

How did you rule out camera straps, smoke, fog, breath, bugs, and radio interference? Can you provide the methodology you used to rule these out?
What were the conditions used to take the pictures? Time of day? Camera used? Digital or film? Location? People present?

I don't think Locknar is needling you; he just wants the same information we all do. If in fact he is "needling" you, then I guess I am too. Instead of dodging the question by changing topics and accusing everyone of being against you, then why don't you just provide the information and let everyone reach their own conclusion. If the "evidence" is so good about why it couldn't be anything but a ghost/extradimensional being, then what do you have to lose? I am sure if it is good, than everyone else would be in agreement with you.

[Ladewig]

No, they have not been ruled out. Maybe in the fantasy world you would prefer to live in, but not in real life.

If we are still talking about the photos on that website, the don't forget photo manipulation. That has not been ruled out and could very likely be the simplest and most accurate explanation.

[Locknar]

If we are still talking about the photos on that website, the don't forget photo manipulation. That has not been ruled out and could very likely be the simplest and most accurate explanation.Specifically, picture 1F is the one Mayday claims she took.

[Ladewig]

Specifically, picture 1F is the one Mayday claims she took.

Are you sure?

As for the fishing picture, I wasn't there but it being a genuine picture sounds more plausible than the explanation you give.

[Locknar]

Are you sure?Nope, not at all. I've asked Mayday several times exactly what pic on that page she claims is hers...below is the most I've ever gotten:

Yes, I posted them more than once, but this was several years ago and as I no longer have the same computer or a scanner I can't get them on at this time. They are located on one of the Tennessee Ghost Hunter websites. I will see if I can find it for you.

Ok, I found one of the pics, but it isn't even one of the best ones, but go to this link and it is the picture on the bottom right.

BOLD added by Locknar

That would be picture 1F.

[wahrheit]

If we are still talking about the photos on that website, the don't forget photo manipulation. That has not been ruled out and could very likely be the simplest and most accurate explanation.

Yes, I'm talking about those pictures:

http://www.tnghosthunters.com/IMAGEgallery1.htm

However, not one of them looks photoshopped to me. Each and every one of those pictures are probably mishaps like they happened a bazillion times since photography was invented, or some of them might be staged (which I don't even suspect).

If you wanted to recreate those pictures, Photoshop would be the most time consuming and least convincing method.

Assuming the pictures are not staged, they are nothing but bad photography to my eyes, shots that went wrong.

As I've said before, anybody who wants to know more about this, look for someone who has worked for years in a big photo lab. These people have seen these mishaps (a.k.a. "ghosts"), a million times after developing the thousands of films they received every day. (Same is true with digital of course, it's just that no lab worker will ever see them.)

[Ladewig]

Yes, I'm talking about those pictures:

http://www.tnghosthunters.com/IMAGEgallery1.htm

However, not one of them looks photoshopped to me.

Not even the fishing one? I think I was able to capture the same effect in the photo I linked to.

[wahrheit]

Not even the fishing one? I think I was able to capture the same effect in the photo I linked to.

The fishing picture is very obscure. It's blurry in most parts of the picture, the face was blurred so that nobody can identify the guy, the top right of the picture looks strange, too. Even the timestamp of the camera is blurred.

All in all, I'd dismiss this picture completely. It doesn't show or prove anything.

(And if you want me to be nit-picky, the effect you re-created looks kind of similar, yet distinctively different from the "original". This is not meant as a smart-aleck comment, I'm only saying what I see.)

[Ladewig]

(And if you want me to be nit-picky, the effect you re-created looks kind of similar, yet distinctively different from the "original". This is not meant as a smart-aleck comment, I'm only saying what I see.)

Fair enough. I jumped in with the dodge tool and spent only a minute or two. I suspect with enough time, I could get it exactly right.

In any case, I'll agree with you that the original photo is not in any way proof of ghosts, spirits, demons, or other ethereal beings.

[mayday]

YES YES YES! 1 F is the picture. As I said, it wasn't the most impressive picture taken by far.

The husband was just showing me some pictures they had taken in this house where there were orbs everywhere. Not your boring, run of the mill orbs, but three dimensional ones, and a big pink one, my husband insists it has a smiley face in it, though I don't see that.

The most impressive picture I have ever seen was owned by a coworker at the nursing home. She had gone to take a picture of her mother's grave and right between the tombstone of her mother and father, suspended in air, was her mother's face. When they told me about it I thought, yea right, but of course I wanted to see it. I was impressed. It was not a grainy, questionable image, it was a fill color, detailed one.

She is retired now, but if I could say any picture was a ghost picture it would be that one.

[wahrheit]

Can we see this "most impressive" picture, mayday? (I guess not.)

[Locknar]

YES YES YES! 1 F is the picture. As I said, it wasn't the most impressive picture taken by far.
What can you tell us about picture 1F? Camera, settings, location, film (if not digital), etc.?

The nursing home where you work...location, name, witnesses, etc.?

[XBoxWarrior]

Gotta love the 'MayDay'./...../././..././.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayday

Troll? I say, "NOT".

Back to your regular programing.......

[mayday]

Can we see this "most impressive" picture, mayday? (I guess not.)

I don't have the capabilities to scan the picture again, but I indeed posted the picture on here many years ago...if someone could see back to when I first started posting, I think it was the late 1990's, it was before I changed my name to mayday, I was bigfig. The picture should still be in the history somewhere, I would think.

Lockner, why would I start giving out the name of the place where I work?
I'm afraid some pervert might show up there or something.

[Locknar]

I don't have the capabilities to scan the picture again, but I indeed posted the picture on here many years ago...if someone could see back to when I first started posting, I think it was the late 1990's, it was before I changed my name to mayday, I was bigfig. The picture should still be in the history somewhere, I would think.

Lockner, why would I start giving out the name of the place where I work.
I'm afraid some pervert might show up there or something.Interesting...it seems at every turn, you are unable to provide specifics with respect to your claims/stories. Why is that?

Just more camp fire stories from Mayday folks...nothing new here, just move along.

[mayday]

Interesting...it seems at every turn, you are unable to provide specifics with respect to your claims/stories. Why is that?

Just more camp fire stories from Mayday folks...nothing new here, just move along.

Would knowing the name of the nursing home where I work make things any clearer for you?

I think not.

[wahrheit]

I don't have the capabilities to scan the picture again, but I indeed posted the picture on here many years ago...if someone could see back to when I first started posting, I think it was the late 1990's, it was before I changed my name to mayday, I was bigfig. The picture should still be in the history somewhere, I would think.

Do I understand you correctly, you do not have the "most impressive picture you have ever seen" (your words) at hand to share it with us?

I want my million dollars. Scroll up to my previous post and hilight the text with your mouse.

[Locknar]

Would knowing the name of the nursing home where I work make things any clearer for you?

I think not.Of course it would.... It would establish some level of credibility (ie. your ability to provide specifics), as well as a starting point where folks here could look for witnesses that have experienced what you've claimed.

Sure, that might be unappealing....but you could always have your coworkers (ie. witnesses) join up here and provide their accounts "first hand".....but you'll come up with some reason to explain why this won't happen either.

For that matter...you could provide some specifics about the picture you claim to have taken and posted on the Tennessee Ghost Hunters site. I've asked multiple times, you have yet to provide any information (camera, location, time of day, camera settings, witnesses, film if not a digital camera, etc.). Why won't you, or rather why are you unable to, provide such basic information?

No supporting information equals baseless claims, otherwise known as camp fire stories.

[Locknar]

The husband was just showing me some pictures they had taken in this house where there were orbs everywhere. Not your boring, run of the mill orbs, but three dimensional ones, and a big pink one, my husband insists it has a smiley face in it, though I don't see that.

The most impressive picture I have ever seen was owned by a coworker at the nursing home. She had gone to take a picture of her mother's grave and right between the tombstone of her mother and father, suspended in air, was her mother's face. When they told me about it I thought, yea right, but of course I wanted to see it. I was impressed. It was not a grainy, questionable image, it was a fill color, detailed one.

She is retired now, but if I could say any picture was a ghost picture it would be that one.In other words...another camp fire story? That is to say, a claim ("The most impressive picture I have ever seen....") that you can not prove in any way.

Though I'm confused....you said it was a picture "owned by a coworker", then later claimed you have it but are unable to scan it and repost it? Nope...no contradiction there.

[mayday]

In other words...another camp fire story? That is to say, a claim ("The most impressive picture I have ever seen....") that you can not prove in any way.

Though I'm confused....you said it was a picture "owned by a coworker", then later claimed you have it but are unable to scan it and repost it? Nope...no contradiction there.

To clarify...the most impressive picture I've SEEN I do not own.

The most impressive picture I HAVE I am not able to scan.

[Locknar]

To clarify...the most impressive picture I've SEEN I do not own.

The most impressive picture I HAVE I am not able to scan.As you can not post either, discussion of them seems moot.

[Yeah_Right]

1. Why would the faulty wiring only act up the night after the woman died and not act up again, and didn't act up before that, either?

Actually, why wouldn't it act up? It is what I like to call a conincidence


2. I've wondered, too, if the geri-recliner shooting across the floor really happened or if something else happened. I say this because it seems so ludicrous it would do this, yet it did.

I think this is something I'd have to see for myself, to my mind it's too difficult to take such a story at face value. I think the only thing I can say about it, since I don't believe a paranormal explanation is viable for me, is that it is nothing more than a campfire story.

3. Sitting didn't put a stress on my nerve endings except when I sat on that bed. To me, I guess since it was directly related to my body, has been the biggest deal because I could verify what was happening. I think it focused on the tooth because it was so sensitive at the time.Actually another way you could really verify this, is ask anyone else that has a sensitive, hurting, part of their body to sit on the bed, and see if the ache increases. Again it is difficult to say this actually occured since I wasn't present at the event. I hope you do understand it is hard to believe such so called "paranormal" events without better verification.

[mayday]

... it is nothing more than a campfire story.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!? Has Locknar invaded your brain????



I hope you do understand it is hard to believe such so called "paranormal" events without better verification.

I ceartainly do, but the fact of the matter is, it still happened and I know it did, I still don't know the answer as to why these things happened.

[Locknar]

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!? Has Locknar invaded your brain????I'm thinking he, like most folks, recognize a camp fire story when they see/hear it.

[tiger]

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!? Has Locknar invaded your brain????



I ceartainly do, but the fact of the matter is, it still happened and I know it did, I still don't know the answer as to why these things happened.


Thought you didn't believe in ghost's or are you back to believing in them again.

Up Down, Up Down, Up Down, Left Right, Left Right, Left Right!
Please give your answer in the form of a question, What is DRYLUBE?

[Yeah_Right]

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!? Has Locknar invaded your brain????

No, just seemed like a apt description of those stories, again, not seeing these things myself makes it difficult to believe.



I ceartainly do, but the fact of the matter is, it still happened and I know it did, I still don't know the answer as to why these things happened.

You know I'd love to believe you, but evidence just doesn't work by your saying this and that happened to me on a message board and that should be sufficient. Now, were I able to come to that Nursing Home and witness these things myself, and record them with a video cam. I'd be a bit more convinced. But it needs to go further than that. Scientists would need to study the events to see if there might be a paranormal or mundane cause for these occurrences. In fact, I believe, science has looked into the paranormal before and hasn't come up with any proof for ghosts.

I'd like to personally say that if something started floating around my room by way of some paranormal agent, I'd be scared at first of course, but then I'd do more than post the experience, I'd make sure I'd have some good photographic evidence that doesn't look like it could be something else. I'd likely put a video on youtube, and have people on this message board view it, and if it were happening frequently I'd try to have some serious investigation done into what was causing the phenomena. You see you really have to work hard to prove something like this, faith just in a persons word just doesn't cut it in Science.

[geneeee]

If there is other life out there in the universe, then it's just as likely that we found out tommorrow compared to the next fifty years. For all we know they could be milenia in front of us with technology, and could be flying through the space in their UFO's towards us right now. Maybe in a millenia or so (if we are still here by then) when we have good enough technology to fly through space at will we will be the ones to find another race similar to where humans are now.

What if humans have a boom in technology in twenty years that makes it possible for us to safely visit other galaxies? Even in one hundred years - many of us could still be alive with advancements in medical science - we could discover or be discovered. :D


Ghosts - I don't believe that they exist... People just go away when they die. I know that I wouldn't believe it if someone I trusted alot said that they'd seen a ghost. I would only believe that ghosts are real if I saw one with my own eyes. Wait - even then I would question my sanity.

[creativecritter41]

I don't really consider the UFO thing has being under the paranormal! It's more like something that has great merit but noone has proved it or is willing to prove it has happened ( If roswell really happened ). Were here and we are exploring space it's pretty hard to swallow that we are the only ones in this vast galaxy. But then you gotta wonder just how far away are they if they are out there and can they reach us. Where the hell is Kirk when you need him.

:) Do you relate to Scientology?

I know, that after watching years and years of archeologist and scientist, albeit on the telly, speak of their findings, it always seemed steadfast. Always confident in their findings and belief that people from long ago ages were less intelligent. Yet... more these days they have to re-think and re-word, their findings. Those damn Romans and their water system... Who coulda thunk that someone born many years ago could have the know-how to make such a thing..?

I'm just saying. I've always felt that people in the, "past" had to think harder and longer. How bout we give credit to us.. Is it so wrong to be the only one in the galaxy?...

[tiger]

:) Do you relate to Scientology?

I know, that after watching years and years of archeologist and scientist, albeit on the telly, speak of their findings, it always seemed steadfast. Always confident in their findings and belief that people from long ago ages were less intelligent. Yet... more these days they have to re-think and re-word, their findings. Those damn Romans and their water system... Who coulda thunk that someone born many years ago could have the know-how to make such a thing..?

I'm just saying. I've always felt that people in the, "past" had to think harder and longer. How bout we give credit to us.. Is it so wrong to be the only one in the galaxy?...


I believe your thinking way to hard about this! The point is simply, If we are exploring space and we are able to do it it's possible someone else is out there able to do the very same thing. But I also made the point if they are out there, do they have the ability to even get to us. But no if I was living back in the days of the ancient romans I wouldn't have even thought man could go into space. But I am living in the age of this tech where we are going into space so with more ability we get more possibility.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I believe your thinking way to hard about this! The point is simply, If we are exploring space and we are able to do it it's possible someone else is out there able to do the very same thing. But I also made the point if they are out there, do they have the ability to even get to us. But no if I was living back in the days of the ancient romans I wouldn't have even thought man could go into space. But I am living in the age of this tech where we are going into space so with more ability we get more possibility.

Bolding mine.

Your lack of imagination is showing. Lucian of Samosata (AD c.120-180) wrote two stories about going to the Moon. He was Greek though, not Roman. :cool:

[tiger]

Bolding mine.

Your lack of imagination is showing. Lucian of Samosata (AD c.120-180) wrote two stories about going to the Moon. He was Greek though, not Roman. :cool:

Yes but for the average person that would have lived in Rome or Greece decades ago, do you believe they were even thinking this was possible? Leonardo Da Vinci did draw a crude helicopter but it never got in the air. Not until the Wright Bros flew their plane did people even believe motorized flight was even possible. Most people believed they would fail at the time and man would be earth bound with the exception of the hot air balloon.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Yes but for the average person that would have lived in Rome or Greece decades ago, do you believe they were even thinking this was possible?

If they read one of Lucian's books they might have. How do you learn things?

Leonardo Da Vinci did draw a crude helicopter but it never got in the air.

Actually, he built a number of models that did fly.

Not until the Wright Bros flew their plane did people even believe motorized flight was even possible. Most people believed they would fail at the time and man would be earth bound with the exception of the hot air balloon.

No. Many people were attempting to build motorized aircraft for some time before them. Others flew before the Wrights and there were a number of prizes being offered to encourage the development of a flying machine.

Are you sure you are not a troll? ;)

[Pope130]

Yes but for the average person that would have lived in Rome or Greece decades ago, do you believe they were even thinking this was possible? Leonardo Da Vinci did draw a crude helicopter but it never got in the air. Not until the Wright Bros flew their plane did people even believe motorized flight was even possible. Most people believed they would fail at the time and man would be earth bound with the exception of the hot air balloon.

The average person who lived in Rome or Greece decades ago (say, 1950 CE) should certainly have heard of the possibility of flying to the Moon. It was in all the papers.

In the Wright Brothers time it was widely held that powered flight was possible, just a question of who would accomplish it first. The trouble they had in convincing people that they had achieved flight was not in that people thought it impossible, but that they (the Wrights) had done it.

[I Ratant]

One of my models dogfighting with a UFO...
The rare double-lobed saucer
.
.
.
.
or is that a pair of garbage bags wafting out of the local landfill across the street?
Naah, has to be a UFO.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

One of my models dogfighting with a UFO...
The rare double-lobed saucer
.
.
.
.
or is that a pair of garbage bags wafting out of the local landfill across the street?
Naah, has to be a UFO.

No way is that a UFO! It's in Focus!

[tiger]

If they read one of Lucian's books they might have. How do you learn things?



Actually, he built a number of models that did fly.



No. Many people were attempting to build motorized aircraft for some time before them. Others flew before the Wrights and there were a number of prizes being offered to encourage the development of a flying machine.

Are you sure you are not a troll? ;)

Yes if they read one of his books and not thought of him has a lunatic!

Okay how many full scale got off the ground, none.

I was pretty sure I was talking about the sketical attitude toward motorized flight at the time. Yes alot did try and alot died trying!
Yes someone did fly before them, SNOOPY!

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Yes if they read one of his books and not thought of him has a lunatic!

Why would they? They lived in an age where the World was a great unknown and what he had to say was as believable as much else that was believed. Anyway, they were fiction -- sort of like Harry Potter.

Okay how many full scale got off the ground, none.

It was not "steam engine time"? (Look it up yourself -- hint "Charles Fort")

I was pretty sure I was talking about the sketical attitude toward motorized flight at the time. Yes alot did try and alot died trying!

There was no great skepticalattitude. Those who thought about it just thought it was a question of time.I doubt a dozen died.

Yes someone did fly before them, SNOOPY!

No. a) Snoopy's a catoon dog.
b)He was "born" on October 4, 1950

:D