Armageddon: What would you invest in?

[DarthFishy]

I don't know if this is entirely in the right sub-forum but the thread that sparked the idea is also here. (Mods please move it if it is not in the right sub-forum)

Basically, there have been a number of threads about the looming collapse of the American (and other) economies and what to invest in. Now I'm not an economist by any measure but I do enjoy a good sci-fi story, espcially if it deals with a post-apocaltypic scenario, and this is, strangely enough, the kind of scenario I have given some thought to.

So, what would you invest in to "hedge" against a possible future apocalypse? (I generally prefer the zombie apocalypse, but any generic apocalypse will do)

Here are some of my suggestions:

- A weapon. I would generally prefer something like a bow and arrow to a standard firearm, becuase in the long run it should be easier to make new arrows than new bullets.
- A toolkit. A collection of tools of various types (even powertools if they could be somehow rechargeable) that could be used to make or repair most things like a shelter, transportation, a weapon etc.
- A renewable power source. Being able to have renewable power would probably be one of the most important investments one could make.
- Whiskey. Obviously only for medicinal reasons :p
- Paper and pen. Just got a feeling that could come in very useful in some post-apocalyptic world.

[Chaos]

If we´re talking about Armageddon in the biblical sense, I think investing in indulgences would be a good idea.

[DarthFishy]

If we´re talking about Armageddon in the biblical sense, I think investing in indulgences would be a good idea.

So gold then? :p

I was thinking more in an apocalytpic sense e.g. Nuclear Winter, Global Warming, Global Recession etc.

[seayakin]

For me, you might have to define the nature of the results of the event.

-Are 90% of the people of the world dead and you need assistance gathering food? (that requires one sort of tool set)

-Is the government in anarchy (ala Mad Max) and you need to protect yourself more?

-Is it a worldwide depression where things are worse economically than the great depression?

Each scenario probably requires quite a different toolset to protect yourself.

[DarthFishy]

For me, you might have to define the nature of the results of the event.

Ah, yes. Well the idea for this thread is based on another thread in the Business Subforum dealing with a possible global recession, leading to war and general anarchy, based on $200 oil.

So I suppose a general breakdown of the economy based on the very high demand and very low supply of a vitally important commodity (e.g.) oil, ala, Mad Max, could fit.

[seayakin]

Short term, I think you have a couple of choices:

Choice 1: Hoard supplies, firearms, etc. along with some things as you suggest would be easier to recreate (arrows for bows).

Choice 2: Go somewhere very remote that has a lot of good natural resources for hunting, fishing, and gathering, while taking with you the necessary survival gear which I think would include bow & arrow, a couple of quality knives (especially for field dressing a kill), flint & steel, maybe a few tools to effect repairs on this equipment. This is a gambit that may or may not succeed because if you run into a survivalist type who doesn't want competition, it could be dangerous (not to mention surviving with no survivalist training).

[IsaacKoi]

Books on how to survive after the collapse.

You mention you enjoy a good sci-fi story. Have you read any books co-authored by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle? In the context of your remarks, I'd strongly recommend their book "Lucifer's Hammer". Apart from being a very enjoyable novel, it includes a fairly long discussion of books that would be useful. (That discussion reflects their rather pro-rationality and pro-technology views - views which I'd presume many JREFers share).

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer%27s_Hammer

All the best,

Isaac

[Pope130]

As the earlier posters pointed out, it depends on what sort of SHTF (the HTF portion is "Hits The Fan", the "S" isn't allowed here) situation occurs.

To answer: it breaks down to two questions, dealing with the event, then dealing with the aftermath.

How to prepare for the event depends on the event. You'll want to live and work in a location that is earth quake safe, above flood level, outside the wildfire area, etc.

After the event you will need to provide for yourself the things that society will no longer provide. The Red Cross recommends being able to provide your own water, food, light, heat, rain protection and first aid for three days. That doesn't sound like much, but it is a good start, and more than most people currently have. You can extend this list to include other things like transportation and self defense, and for any period you think services won't be available.

Given a specific scenario and location a more definite answer is possible.

Robert Klaus

[Solus]

An underground vault, and plenty of waterchips to insure no water shortages. Plenty of gauss rifle ammunition and don't forget energy cells for the plasma guns. A working car would be a nice touch. As always several suits of powered armor and some Rad-away are a must. :p

Seriously who cares, if there was a WW3 it's safe bet there wouldn't be much left in this world worth living for.

[Madalch]

http://angryflower.com/whatco.gif

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Shouldn't it be "Armageddon: In what would you invest?"

[Hokulele]

I mentioned this in a different "Doomsday" thread, but the best things to hoard would be things that are addictive, but not obviously valuable. Having guns and ammunition would make you a primary target. Having coffee, tea, sugar, chocolate, and cigarettes would make you everyone's best friend. After a few months of desolation, I have no doubt I could trade a cup of fresh-brewed coffee for all the food and fresh water I would need for the week.

[rjh01]

1. Get physically fit.
2. Invest in a few good friends who live nearby.
3. Learn self defense.
4. Compact long life food. Mostly tinned food that can be eaten straight out of the can.
5. Painkillers.
6. First aid books.

[seayakin]

I mentioned this in a different "Doomsday" thread, but the best things to hoard would be things that are addictive, but not obviously valuable. Having guns and ammunition would make you a primary target. Having coffee, tea, sugar, chocolate, and cigarettes would make you everyone's best friend. After a few months of desolation, I have no doubt I could trade a cup of fresh-brewed coffee for all the food and fresh water I would need for the week.

Yes, but if I have a gun and you don't, your cream and sugar is mine (buhahahah).

[Gurdur]

Armageddon: What would you invest in?
.....

- A weapon. I would generally prefer something like a bow and arrow to a standard firearm, becuase in the long run it should be easier to make new arrows than new bullets.


I would invest in a weasel that can run up trouser legs.

You know, if there's a guy over there with a tin of food and a honking big automatic rifle with all-spazebo accessories, and I'm over here with a weasel trained to run up trouser legs, you know, dude, at the end of it all, I'm going to have the whole palooka, the rifle, the all-spazebos, the tin of food, and the weasel too.

- A toolkit. A collection of tools of various types (even powertools if they could be somehow rechargeable) that could be used to make or repair most things like a shelter, transportation, a weapon etc.


I would get myself a ferret trained to collect tools for me. Plus the ferret would be a good understudy for the weasel.

- A renewable power source. Being able to have renewable power would probably be one of the most important investments one could make.


I would get a honking big hamster wheel, attach a dynamo to it, and get my weasel and ferret to run endless circles in the wheel. Massive power in a weasel, you know.

- Whiskey. Obviously only for medicinal reasons :p


I would occasionally give my weasel and ferret whiskey, as a reward for running up other peoples' trouser legs.

- Paper and pen. Just got a feeling that could come in very useful in some post-apocalyptic world.


Pen and paper are just so 1980's, dude. Or 1880's.

[Loss Leader]

Hookers.

[Hokulele]

Yes, but if I have a gun and you don't, your cream and sugar is mine (buhahahah).


Pfft, you would be too worried about the person with the bigger gun more ammo to waste ammo on a harmless coffee vendor (it's not a necessity after all). It would be much cheaper to trade than steal at that point. The point is that if you wish to operate at a profit after Armeggedon, it would make sense to do a cost/benefit analysis ahead of time and try to determine the most profitable thing to sell that is not quite profitable enough to have stolen.

[Gurdur]

A good ferret fetches a high price. By force of trouser-leg, if necessary.

[this charming man]

I just want to say one word to you - just one word.

'Plastics.'

[quarky]

Mystical looking clothing and woo devices.

[dudalb]

I will take the advice offered by Brains Gremlin in "Gremlins 2":

"I am advising my clients to invest in canned goods and shotguns".

[Pope130]

Since this thread has gone toward the humour side:

If everybody's storing canned goods, I'll invest in can openers.

[Roboramma]

The best things to invest in are skills and knowledge - they can't be stolen, and they don't run out.

So look at the sorts of skills that will be in demand - both for yourself and the other survivors:

- Medical knowledge. Even a simple first aid course could make you a valuable member of the new community that develops.
- Survival knowledge - hunting, fishing, preserving food, knowledge of edible local plants, making simple shelters, etc.
- Farming/Raising livestock - everyone wants a steady food supply, and if farms are still viable, they are a very efficient method. But not everyone knows how to go about raising food. Finding people who can protect an area of land and teaching them is a valuable way to ensure your future food supply.
- Building stuff - as people move away from simple survival and into a settled lifestyle they'll want permanent, comfortable shelters, and all the fixing that go with them. If you know how to build such, or at least the basics better than the others around, that skill is worth a lot.
- Manufacturing stuff - clothing/bedding, pottery, weapons, whatever.
- Technology - as these new industries develop there will be a demand for anything that makes them easier- if you are familiar with the technologies well enough to know how to produce them, again that's useful.
- knowledge of how to make alchohol.

It's probably better to specialize in one or a few of those areas, to become very skilled and competent so that your skills really are valuable. On the other hand it's not so important to be good as it is to be better than the next guy.

As for stuff?
I think others are right- guns and ammunition would be useful. Maps. Compass. Books about local ecology. Books about any of the subjects listed above. Camping and hiking supplies - good boots, backpack, sleeping bag, tent, etc. - this just for the initial days before things start to settle down again.
A horse (or a fertile pair?) would be useful, if you knew how to keep it.
Canned foods? Yeah, to a point. Delicacies like hokulele suggested - coffee, tea, chocolate, bags of sugar, salt (a good one, because you can use it for preservation, and it can be hard to come by), etc will be much more valuable. But the canned foods will help with the initial survival stage.
Pornography might also be something that could be traded at high value.

[Gurdur]

Train your ferrets, let them do the thinking and the knowledge for you. Much easier.

[Magyar]

there was a show on recently on discovery channel I think. It ws called something like
"what would happen if humans dissapeared" now granted this show went to the extreme of literally every human. But one of the major things that they brought up was what would happen to the nuclear reactor plants if people were not there to manage them.

I don't know how far apart the 104 are in the US but I am guessing that there are not a lot of people who know how to safely deactivate/turn off these things.

So you may be screwed no matter how much coffee, sugar, salt and hookers you keep/get.

[Madalch]

So you may be screwed no matter how much coffee, sugar, salt and hookers you keep/get.
I thought that was the point of keeping them.

[rjh01]

One other thing that may be useful. Dogs. Uses
1. Hunting aid. They can smell and hear prey better than we can. May also help in stopping wounded prey from escaping. Will retrieve shot birds.
2. Guard duty. Will warn of strangers approaching. May warn them off.
3. Vacuum cleaner. Will eat human fecal matter.

[Gurdur]

Armageddon: What would you invest in?


A better server for JREF. Much needed, as the last 4 days have shown.
.
More ferrets.

[Freethinker]

- A weapon. I would generally prefer something like a bow and arrow to a standard firearm, becuase in the long run it should be easier to make new arrows than new bullets.

I'll take all of your stuff with my 12 gauge the first year. 20 years after it happens a bow might be useful, but they can be made.

IMO, people would be far nastier than most of us give them credit for. If my children are starving, morality will be quite a bit different. I might feel bad about killing you and taking your food, but that doesn't mean I won't do it.

IMO, information and skils are the first priorities. You need to know how to make and do the things for which you normally rely on others. For instance, whiskey can be manufactured at home, but do you know how?

[Blackwell]

I'll take all of your stuff with my 12 gauge the first year. 20 years after it happens a bow might be useful, but they can be made.

IMO, people would be far nastier than most of us give them credit for. If my children are starving, morality will be quite a bit different. I might feel bad about killing you and taking your food, but that doesn't mean I won't do it.

IMO, information and skils are the first priorities. You need to know how to make and do the things for which you normally rely on others. For instance, whiskey can be manufactured at home, but do you know how?

I was thinking the same thing. If I were to have certain rare and desirable tools in a situation like this, I'd be putting myself and my family at greater risk.
Whitley Strieber (the "alien contactee" who wrote Communion) co-authored a post-nuclear-apocalypse story in which the main character owned an old Jeep that still ran after the EMPs destroyed the electronics on all modern cars. I don't know much about cars, or what it is about the old ones that makes them impervious to EMPs (something with the solenoid? The Fritzer valve? The lack of hydraulic diodes?) but I happen to have a very old Jeep in running condition in my garage. It's probably the only car of its age in the neighborhood, which would make me a popular fellow. I'd have to invest in multiple shotguns (and train the wife and kids in their use), I'd need to reinforce the garage door, maybe boobytrap the access areas to the house, and of course I'd need a good supply of fuel, which would probably get the attention of the guy across the street with the gas generator. I should also think about getting my fat-ass dog in fighting shape. Or at least fatten him up before the cold winter....

[Hokulele]

One other thing that may be useful. Dogs. Uses
1. Hunting aid. They can smell and hear prey better than we can. May also help in stopping wounded prey from escaping. Will retrieve shot birds.
2. Guard duty. Will warn of strangers approaching. May warn them off.
3. Vacuum cleaner. Will eat human fecal matter.


4. Food. Dogs are a popular menu item in many Polynesian and Asian cultures.

[Freethinker]

I was thinking the same thing. If I were to have certain rare and desirable tools in a situation like this, I'd be putting myself and my family at greater risk.


But if you possessed an important skill, you and your family would become an asset to others, therefore making yourself safer. Who are you going to shoot in a post-apocalyptic world; A doctor or a lawyer? Blacksmith or programmer? Man with a basement full of food or a starving neighbor?

Not to mods: I'm not advocating shooting anybody here. Just speculating.

[Blackwell]

But if you possessed an important skill, you and your family would become an asset to others, therefore making yourself safer. Who are you going to shoot in a post-apocalyptic world; A doctor or a lawyer? Blacksmith or programmer? Man with a basement full of food or a starving neighbor?

Not to mods: I'm not advocating shooting anybody here. Just speculating.

Exactly! That's actually the direction I intended to head in my ramble, but never actually got there.

I'll let the jock douchebag with the generator fight off the intruders, while I offer my gigolo skills to the neighborhood ladies.

[DarthFishy]

Hookers.

And blackjack.

[littlehulkster]

The world's largest gun.

[TheJim]

I cant believe everyone missed the obvious answer which is old rusty bicycles. This will be the currency of the post apocylpicatial future as seen by the yards of just about every Y2K nut.

[MattusMaximus]

Books on how to survive after the collapse.

You mention you enjoy a good sci-fi story. Have you read any books co-authored by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle? In the context of your remarks, I'd strongly recommend their book "Lucifer's Hammer". Apart from being a very enjoyable novel, it includes a fairly long discussion of books that would be useful. (That discussion reflects their rather pro-rationality and pro-technology views - views which I'd presume many JREFers share).

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer%27s_Hammer

All the best,

Isaac


I second this book as a end-of-the-world resource. One of the best sci-fi stories EVER!

[MattusMaximus]

Seriously, I would find a really good place to hide with all my stuff. That way when all the zombies have finally rotted away (don't they have to eventually?), I can come out of my hidey-hole to reclaim the world.