Baptism

[jimmygun]

Has anyone here renounced their baptism? I was baptised as an infant in the United Church and have always meant to renounce that officially. It was not a big deal (still isn't) but lately I have become more assertive about my atheism and do not wish to be counted among any religious group even if only as a number.

I have emailed the United Church of Canada and asked them how to go about renouncing but have not heard back from them as of yet.

[matty.the.damned]

Yes. When I was 17 I renounced the roman catholic faith I was raised in. The church apparently still considers me a catholic, but also a apostate and a heretic.

MtD

[I Ratant]

Who would care?
Making a scene about dropping a fantasy is hardly worth any effort.

[Showmeproof]

I was baptised and made my communion. I never thought about renouncing either. Hell, I never even knew there was certain steps you could take to renounce them. I do not have the time nor energy to do that. To each their own though :)

[lionking]

I agree with the last two posters. What point is there if you no longer believe? I am still on a baptismal register. Dont care.

[Kochanski]

I raised RC and was baptized, made my first communion and was confirmed, then walked away because I fulfilled my duty to my parent's wishes. Not sure if the RC church would let me get out of what I already did despite the fact that I was a child and would not be held responsible (indeed had no choice of with baptism) for by any rational group. I really don't care though, RC church has no meaning to me.

However, if you like the symbolic gesture of renouncing your baptism, go for it.

[dglas]

Yes. When I was 17 I renounced the roman catholic faith I was raised in. The church apparently still considers me a catholic, but also a apostate and a heretic.

MtD

Interesting. It says RC on my birth certificate.

How did you go about doing this? Is there some kind of official procedure, a ceremony, or some sort of other something-or-other that's involved?

[devnull]

If you renounce it your IQ rises by 30 points.

Fact.

[Verde]

Has anyone here renounced their baptism? I was baptised as an infant in the United Church and have always meant to renounce that officially. It was not a big deal (still isn't) but lately I have become more assertive about my atheism and do not wish to be counted among any religious group even if only as a number.

I have emailed the United Church of Canada and asked them how to go about renouncing but have not heard back from them as of yet.

Go outside, in the daytime, look around and find the highest natural spot. Hike up there. Remove all clothing. Shout very loudly "I reject all forms of religous indoctrination".

Hike back down. You will feel much better for having done that.

You may wonder why people are looking at you. At that point you will wish you had remembered to retrieve your clothes.

V.

{Lapsed catholic; no regrets}

[six7s]

I wasn't baptised any more than I was Santa Claused

For me, the need to renounce a ceremony that my parents took me to at the age of a few weeks is on apar with the need to renounce the innocent greed that I awoke with every 25 Dec and/or any day after losing one of my milk teeth... they were all simply lies told to children (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A685055)

YMMV

[jimmygun]

I agree with the last two posters. What point is there if you no longer believe? I am still on a baptismal register. Dont care.

My point is that as a statistic I would rather be counted as an atheist than a member of any religious organization. If I were to get my name off the United Church list that would drop their count by one and by putting my official status as atheist it would raise that count by one.

[Darat]

I wasn't baptised any more than I was Santa Claused

For me, the need to renounce a ceremony that my parents took me to at the age of a few weeks is on apar with the need to renounce the innocent greed that I awoke with every 25 Dec and/or any day after losing one of my milk teeth... they were all simply lies told to children (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A685055)

YMMV

I don't feel any need to renounce my baptism but it does mildly rankle me that I'll always be on their rolls no matter what (my lot believe once they've baptised you that's it).

[Lilith]

I'm in the camp of "don't sweat it" - but I can tell it really bothers you. You could perhaps enter the church and talk directly to them, instead of waiting for them to get back to you.

I had myself baptised, my decision not the folks, in my teens. It was only a few years later that I figured out I didn't believe in any god. But I still think it's part of my past, and therefore part of me, that I was baptised at all. Sort of a step on the journey to where I am now. I guess I don't worry about any statistics I'm adding to.

I vote for the idea of climbing a mountain and, clothed or not, proclaiming your renouncement to the world!

[Ryokan]

I renounced it when I was 15 and old enough to do so.

[Bikewer]

Our local Rationalist Society used to hold "De-Baptism" ceremonies in one of the local parks.

Like most of the above posters, I never had any great need of ritual.

[Beerina]

Who would care?
Making a scene about dropping a fantasy is hardly worth any effort.

Ding! :)


I no more made a spectacle of renouncing RC than I did of renouncing Santa and the Tooth Fairy.


There was some athiest group that wanted you to specifically renounce your faith to the Catholic Church, since they keep you in their totals, but I highly doubt anybody anywhere subtracts 1 from the totals the Church reports.

[godless dave]

I was never baptised, so I had nothing to renounce.

[matty.the.damned]

Interesting. It says RC on my birth certificate.

How did you go about doing this? Is there some kind of official procedure, a ceremony, or some sort of other something-or-other that's involved?

Gave a cantankerous speech at a youth conference. Renounced the faith (apostasy) declared myself to be an atheist (heresy) and was reported to the local bishop. It all went from there. I didn't find out that I'd been booted until years later.

I'm not really fussed about it.

MtD

[shadron]

Ummmmm, gee, now that I think back on it, I'm also a teamster (union member) in good, though non-active, standing, from a job I had one summer as a Keebler elf. I really doubt that the local union would be able to prove it, though.

As far as renouncing goes, this one about takes the cake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8PCecgWKeI

[matty.the.damned]

Ummmmm, gee, now that I think back on it, I'm also a teamster (union member) in good, though non-active, standing, from a job I had one summer as a Keebler elf. I really doubt that the local union would be able to prove it, though.

As far as renouncing goes, this one about takes the cake:

Heh. I've latterly dissed The Bird myself. Apparently it's an express train to Hell.

MtD
(Who always rides in style)

[Skeptic Ginger]

Has anyone here renounced their baptism? I was baptised as an infant in the United Church and have always meant to renounce that officially. It was not a big deal (still isn't) but lately I have become more assertive about my atheism and do not wish to be counted among any religious group even if only as a number.

I have emailed the United Church of Canada and asked them how to go about renouncing but have not heard back from them as of yet.When I was a child one of the few things a Sunday school teacher told me that I still recall was that Lutherans baptized infants and Brethrens (we) didn't and that is what made us right and them wrong. It is odd that this struck me so significantly that I have recalled it ever since.

Anyway...carry on.

[Gregory]

My grandmother had me baptized, apparently in some sort of obscure act of spite against Christianity. I haven't renounced it, but then, I don't even know what denomination I was baptized into, so it might be a little difficult.

[arthwollipot]

It honestly never occurred to me to renounce my baptism.

ETA: Either of them.

[matty.the.damned]

It honestly never occurred to me to renounce my baptism.

ETA: Either of them.

Yeesh. They got ya twice?

MtD

[Darat]

Reminds me of a Les Dawson joke - "The baby was ugly, so ugly they baptised both ends just to be sure."

[-Fran-]

I'm baptised and went through confirmation. It was just the tradition around here, it was certainly not religiously important to me. At confirmation I was 14 and all my friends did it and grandma said I would get gifts, that was all :) I never had a belief in any sort of god. I was kind of shocked about all the **** the priest blabbered about though.

Later in my teens and early 20s I became more and more anti-religion as I realized more and more what influence these fantasies have in the world, and that, for many people, it isn't just empty old traditions still hanging around. Then it started to really bug me immensely that I was baptised and confirmated, and I did want some sort of ceremony that would somehow undo it.

Today I am still anti-religion for the same reasons, I don't think such fantasies should have that sort of influence in the world. But for me personally today, I just see my baptism and confirmation as the empty rituals that it was, and that it can't either influence me or "taint" me in any way. I no longer give a damn. I've been meaning to leave the Swedish Church though as you do pay a sum to it through your taxes, but I haven't got around to it.

[jimmygun]

Another reason for renouncing is what a friend said some years ago...why do you still hang on to your official baptism? Are you hedging your bet? That sort of thing to me is very offensive, that I would believe one thing and at the same time feel so unsure of myself that I would keep the status as an insurance. In his mind Pascal's wager is totally legitimate.

[-Fran-]

Another reason for renouncing is what a friend said some years ago...why do you still hang on to your official baptism? Are you hedging your bet? That sort of thing to me is very offensive, that I would believe one thing and at the same time feel so unsure of myself that I would keep the status as an insurance. In his mind Pascal's wager is totally legitimate.

Well, he isn't right, is he? Sounded like he just wanted to provoke you a little bit. Tell him that you are sure enough about yourself that a splash of water on your head when you were a baby means aboslutely nothing.

I mean, it's a man-made ritual based in nothing. The ritual of baptising doesn't "work", and so no renouncing could take away something that doesn't really existed in the first place. Its only use, I guess, would be in showing a certain type of people, in a more concrete way, that you reject their fantasies, by going through some sort of counter-ceremony to the first one. At least that was what I wanted when I was younger, to show them, but now I couldn't care less about what they think. And to me, now, it would feel weird to give that sort of meaning to any sort of rituals like this.

[arthwollipot]

Another reason for renouncing is what a friend said some years ago...why do you still hang on to your official baptism? Are you hedging your bet? That sort of thing to me is very offensive, that I would believe one thing and at the same time feel so unsure of myself that I would keep the status as an insurance. In his mind Pascal's wager is totally legitimate.It's not any kind of calculated, deliberate thing. It honestly never occured to me. I have never (well, not since leaving the church) given it even a thought until this thread came up. I definitely have not considered it seriously enough to be worth making any kind of statement or perform any kind of ritual to renounce it. What would be the point?

No, seriously. What would be the point?

[Fiona]

I was never baptised, being from an atheist family. What does annoy me is that the church claims to represent so many people, at least some proportion of whom are not members in anything but name. This does tend to give them more clout. They get a platform and a respectful hearing in matters which affect the rest of us, partly on the basis of that claimed support. Maybe if all of the people who give it up found a way to do so formally the church would be seen to be over-represented and might lose some influence? Just a thought

[six7s]

This does tend to give them more clout ... on the basis of that claimed support

You're in the UK, right? If so... I beg to differ - at least regarding Commonwealth countries;
QEII = head of the CofE
Clout comes from the good ole might = right

Maybe if all of the people who give it up found a way to do so formally the church would be seen to be over-represented and might lose some influence? Just a thought

statistics.gov.uk census2001 ethnicity.asp#religion
(http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/commentaries/ethnicity.asp#religion)There are 37.3 million people in England and Wales who state their religion as Christian. The percentage of Christians is similar between the two countries but the proportion of people who follow other religions is 6.0 per cent in England compared with 1.5 per cent in Wales.

In England, 3.1 per cent of the population state their religion as Muslim (0.7 per cent in Wales), making this the most common religion after Christianity.

For other religions, 1.1 per cent in England and 0.2 per cent in Wales are Hindu, 0.7 per cent in England and 0.1 per cent in Wales are Sikh, 0.5 per cent in England and 0.1 per cent in Wales are Jewish and 0.3 per cent in England and 0.2 per cent in Wales are Buddhist.

In England and Wales 7.7 million people state they have no religion (14.6 per cent in England and 18.5 per cent in Wales).

[six7s]

news.bbc.co.uk: Tuesday, 9 October, 2001: Jedi makes the census list (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1589133.stm)It's official: "Jedi Knight" is ON the list of religions for the 2001 UK census.

A campaign to get people to write the entry on their census forms has succeeded in the term being included on the list of religions, alongside Church of England, Roman Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist and Hindu.

Sufficient numbers of people wrote the entry in for it to be allocated its own code for the census processing team to use.

But officials from the Office of National Statistics are keen to point out that just because Jedi Knight has been given its own code, that does not confer on it the status of official recognition.

[Fiona]

You have a point, six7's but I would just make a couple of my own.

While it is true that the queen is also the head of the C of E, it is not just anglican bishops who get seats in the house of lords: the chief rabbi is there, for example.

In addition the census question tends to reinforce my position, rather than detract from it. The question in england and wales only asked what religion you were, as I understand it. Many are nominally christian and would answer this out of habit. The same is true in scotland but there were two questions there: one about religion of origin and one about current religion. While still high the percent who claimed to be christian was significantly lower in Scotland: this may be due to the wording or it may be a real difference: I cannot know.

But the figures in the census bear no relation to the reality. For example

The Anglican Church claims only 1,650,000 members in the UK and its
Sunday services are attended by only about 1.9% of the adult population.
Only 12% of the adult population are members of any church

http://www.humanism.org.uk/uploadedFiles/cms/store//Campaigns/article_HouseofLordsReform_files/ATTACHMENTS/Against%20Bishops%202007.pdf

Asked in a 2006 Ipsos MORI poll to select whom they thought
Government paid too much attention to, more people chose ‘religious
groups and leaders’ than chose any other domestic group

[six7s]

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics
Benjamin Disraeli

:)

[-Fran-]

I was never baptised, being from an atheist family. What does annoy me is that the church claims to represent so many people, at least some proportion of whom are not members in anything but name. This does tend to give them more clout. They get a platform and a respectful hearing in matters which affect the rest of us, partly on the basis of that claimed support. Maybe if all of the people who give it up found a way to do so formally the church would be seen to be over-represented and might lose some influence? Just a thought

You have a point. I agree, and that annoys me too. Though what would feel weird for me, personally, is that it would sort of be to neutralize a ritual with another ritual that would also feel sort of woo in nature. It would be hard to find a genuine secular way of doing this that would really mean anything to the church, and it's them we would need to effect/impress with this ceremony, since most of us wouldn't really need it for our own peace of mind, I guess. I have the impression that the baptism is important to them, and I can't see what would make them agree that I am now un-baptised :confused:

But you are making me feel I really should get off my ass and formally leave the Church of Sweden which I have planned to do for long, and just keep forgetting :blush:

I'm not sure I am being clear at all :o

[Fiona]

Perfectly clear, Fran. :). But any excuse for a party is what I say :D

[six7s]

...any excuse for a party is what I say :D

I'll drink to that :)

[-Fran-]

Perfectly clear, Fran. :). But any excuse for a party is what I say :D

Hee, yeah, I'd say that's the only reason many religious traditions are still alive around here :D

[HghrSymmetry]

It honestly never occurred to me to renounce my baptism.

ETA: Either of them.

Baptism plus confirmation?

[arthwollipot]

Baptism plus confirmation?Heh. Took you all long enough to notice that...

No. I was baptised as a baby in the Anglican church, but my family was never particularly religious. It was just something that was done. I was also baptised into the church I joined when I was 16.

[six7s]

You double dipped God?

[arthwollipot]

I confess.

Well, it's not like I had any say in the first one, now was it?

[Fiona]

You....you.....you fellow traveller, you!!!

[HghrSymmetry]

Heh. Took you all long enough to notice that...

No. I was baptised as a baby in the Anglican church, but my family was never particularly religious. It was just something that was done. I was also baptised into the church I joined when I was 16.

Noted.

[godless dave]

I've been meaning to leave the Swedish Church though as you do pay a sum to it through your taxes, but I haven't got around to it.


That really puzzles me. There are many Americans of Swedish descent in the part of the US I live in, and I can't imagine any of them parting with money if they didn't have to. Is it really easier for you to pay some extra money each year than to fill out a form to leave the church?

[-Fran-]

That really puzzles me. There are many Americans of Swedish descent in the part of the US I live in, and I can't imagine any of them parting with money if they didn't have to.

That's because most of them emigrated from Småland ;) (In Sweden the stereotype is that people from that part of Sweden are cheap.)


Is it really easier for you to pay some extra money each year than to fill out a form to leave the church?

It's a psychological thing, I guess. You never see that money, it's part of your taxes, so, passive action on your part to pay that money, and to leave the church is more active action where you have to contact... something, and fill in papers and such. I just keep forgetting it :blush:

But, you're right, I really will look into it.

ETA:

I am checking things up :)

How much they take from your taxes depends on in which municipality you live, and what your income is. On average it's 0,98 % of your income (man, they don't get much from me, my income is very low :)) excluding an obligatory "funeral fee" which is 0,25 % of your income. (The Church of Sweden are main responsible for all funeral activities in all of Sweden's municipalities except for two.)

Now, on their website they have information pages on how to join the Church of Sweden, if you haven't been baptised because then you automatically becomes a member. They have forms to download to join, they have a "seven reasons to be a member"-page... I still haven't found any info on how to leave that is quite as easily accessed as that :rolleyes: I finally found something using the site's search engine. It then said to follow a link to a faq, but the link was dead. (They also state btw that the baptism can never be made un-done in their eyes, you can only leave the church.)

[-Fran-]

To stay a bit more on-topic... If anyone is interested, this is what the Church of Sweden has to say about the OP's question, as presented on their website. http://www.svenskakyrkan.se/

(Crappy translation by me, sorry :o)

Hello!

My question is about the baptism. I am baptised myself, which was the choice of my parents. Now, as an adult I am becoming more and more critical about a choice that was made for me in such an early stage of my life (as an infant) that I didn’t have the capacity to consider the meaning of the baptism and the religion in which this was done.

Now, as an adult and with more insight (I have read the bible, other scriptures, and spoken with pastors and priests) I have come to realize that the bases of most religions are unreasonable. This is the reason that I no longer want to be connected with any sort of beliefs, and in consequence I do not want to be baptised. So, my question to the Church of Sweden is then, can I have the baptism un-done?

Thanks for any help with this question
(Name removed)

A representative of the Church of Sweden replies:

Hello **

It’s good that you, as an adult, feel that you have more insight, even if I, as a priest, can not share your opinions. I do believe fully in every human being taking responsibility for their own lives, and also her rights to make decisions about their own lives. As children though, we have to accept the decisions of our custodians, whatever we might think about what they decide.

The baptism can not be made un-done. For you, the negative thing about this might be that you have to accept that you are noted as baptised if you belong to a congregation in the Church of Sweden, and that you are noted in the baptism-book of the congregation where you were baptised. But it’s positive in the sense of that if you one day will change your mind, you don’t have to be baptised again.

The standpoint you can make (and maybe you have already done so) is to request to leave the Church of Sweden. If you need info on what it would mean to leave the Church of Sweden you can find it here:
http://www.svenskakyrkan.se/om_faq_medlemskap.asp

Of course, you can personally disclaim the meaning of the baptism, but it can never be un-done.

Peace and love
(Name removed)

The link didn't work for me. Note though that it doesn't say that the link provided info on how to do it, but only what it would mean if you did it.

So, whatever you would do... you're baptised, no way around it! You may leave the church, but you will never leave the big stalker in the sky :rolleyes:

[Fiona]

But if membership of the church can be tracked through taxation then leaving will be an effective means of helping to keep the numbers honest :)

[-Fran-]

But if membership of the church can be tracked through taxation then leaving will be an effective means of helping to keep the numbers honest :)

True, and I think that one reason to why they make it so damn hard to find info on how to leave on their website, is that rather many have left the last years. They're getting a bit desperate me thinks :) On the other hand many people are just lazy, like me, and keep forgetting to actually leave (I am ashamed now :o) I do think they have a rather large part of members that are not religious at all.

[wdimac]

Don't really care about renouncing my baptism, but if I could get the Pope to excommunicate me -- THAT would cool!

[godless dave]

Don't really care about renouncing my baptism, but if I could get the Pope to excommunicate me -- THAT would cool!

Go to a splinter church that has women priests and receive sacrament from one of them. I think that's an automatic excommunication.

[Leftus]

As with others, it's something that never came up. I don't see the need to renounce or undo a baptism ceremony than I see the need to undo or renounce communion. Of course it does make me wonder what the undo ceremony would be for the de-baptism? Coal Walking (minus the mystical woo) or some other light me on fire but not really thing?

[-Fran-]

Of course it does make me wonder what the undo ceremony would be for the de-baptism?

Walking into the church naked and wet, crawling up into the font and dry yourself off while chanting the prayers backwards?

[six7s]

Walking into the church naked and wet, crawling up into the font and dry yourself off while chanting the prayers backwards?

How about simply rubbing behind your ears with a small towel, which is then 'wrung out' (over the font?), accompanied by the announcement "Look! No more drips! Suck it and see!"

[JoeTheJuggler]

The local Rationalist Society does de-baptism ceremonies. A friend of mine had it done in the late '80s. It became a fairly big event. There was a newspaper story on it.

As for the ceremony itself, he just said something like, "I hereby renounce fear and superstition" etc. It was called a "de-baptism", and he was baptized as a Catholic (as an infant, like most everyone around here at that time). IIRC, the ceremony wasn't so pointed at Catholicism in particular.

I remember this: in the newspaper article they quoted him saying something like, "I think religions give people a distorted image of reality". They had a picture of his face with the caption, "My friend's name: 'A distorted image'".

At any rate, I can see such a thing having some use. If nothing else, it's an opportunity to have something in the news that reminds people that not everyone belongs to a religion. I'm sure it opened discussions that might not otherwise have occurred.

[-Fran-]

How about simply rubbing behind your ears with a small towel, which is then 'wrung out' (over the font?), accompanied by the announcement "Look! No more drips! Suck it and see!"

That would work too... I just had my heart set on the walking in naked bit :( ;)