Truthers express their deep Homophobia

[Thunder]

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/213904/1/#new

I dont know that the porn spam looked like, and Im sure it was pretty disgusting, but the truthers responses with tons of anti-gay language is equally disgusting.

whats up with truthers and such hostility towards gays? something deeper going on here?

[1337m4n]

I'm not sure if I'm in any position to criticize since I post so many links to Encyclopedia Dramatica.

'Course ED uses "the other F-word" as a general term of address (much like the word "dude"), not as a homosexual slur. And it's still not something I'd use in everyday communication, especially not with those unfamiliar with the subculture. Which the Loose Change boys are. Only one of them as far as I know has ever heard of 4chan.

Still, I'm not going to criticize, except to criticize JFK the idiot who thinks I'm the one doing this and that I go to "Dalhousie University" (I go to University of Central Florida, as is clear to anyone who searches through this forum). JFK, you are an idiot, your security measures are weak, your accusations are weaker, and your forum sucks. That is all.

[Bobert]

Please make sure and report JFK or anyone at LCF everytime they post private info about people.
Details here
http://s1.zetaboards.com/zb/report/?p=1&typ=9

[Shrinker]

It's a forum full of kids, and it got spammed with gay porn. How'd you expect them to react parky? btw whoever spammed their forum like that is an idiot.

[1337m4n]

Oh, and I'm also going to criticize Killtown the hypocrite for complaining so much in this thread (http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/123763/1/#new) yet remaining completely silent on the behavior of his comrades. Killtown, you are an idiot AND a hypocrite. You're also a liar, but that's for a completely different thread.



Ah, what the heck, I'll criticize them all. Loose Changers, you are ALL idiots. Thank you for your time.

[TexasJack]

Of course Gideon524 suspects JREF members...

[Thunder]

in my humble opinion, most militant homophobes are themselves in-the-closet, self-hating homosexuals.

what am i suggesting? i will let you figure that out for yourselves.

but i really really doubt any long standing member on this forum would engage in such an act.

[BenBurch]

It's a forum full of kids, and it got spammed with gay porn. How'd you expect them to react parky? btw whoever spammed their forum like that is an idiot.

I'm quite sure they were spammed by a 'bot.

Bots these days can find forums, sign up for them, evade the "captcha," and post spam all by themselves. The owners don't even know, unless they look, which systems the bots have spammed!

-Ben

[Arus808]

oh please. forum spammers are all too common, and its not like they are using their own server; they are using the FREE version of the forum, on an SHARED server.

Next time, have better screening processes; better passwords, AND PUT the damn forum on your own PRIVATE server.

[Arus808]

I'm quite sure they were spammed by a 'bot.

Bots these days can find forums, sign up for them, evade the "captcha," and post spam all by themselves. The owners don't even know, unless they look, which systems the bots have spammed!

-Ben

also, this possibility. The forum I administer, we have to manually approve all new members. And I use this great site:
http://www.stopforumspam.com/

to block all ip addresses from known spam havens.

[1337m4n]

You know, you'd think with all the DVD, T-shirt, and coffee mug sales they'd be able to afford a server that is actually good.

The problem with free webhosting is that generally, you get what you pay for.

[Bobert]

Exactly.
Dylan and Co. are too cheap to put LCF on a private server.
Actually considering that Dylan seems to have abandoned LCF they will eventually dry up anyways,.

[Arus808]

seriously, free sites, are for high school kids with nothing better to do. Once you're past 18, you should be able to afford your own server.


domain name = $5 a year
hosting = $6 a month, and this will include a database to host any forums

Seriously, less than $90 a year they can't afford? That's less than what they would spend on fast food everyday.

[BenBurch]

Amen. I can get you your very own server with 2 Terabytes of monthly bandwidth, a 10 Mbps connection, and running Debian Linux for $99/mo.

[theprestige]

in my humble opinion, most militant homophobes are themselves in-the-closet, self-hating homosexuals.

what am i suggesting? i will let you figure that out for yourselves.

but i really really doubt any long standing member on this forum would engage in such an act.
If someone were to spam this board with a bunch of graphic, raunchy, straight porn, and I objected with strong expressions of disgust, would that make me a closet gynophobe? Some sort of self-hating heterosexual? Or could I just be a someone who is disgusted by inappropriate displays of graphic sex acts in a family setting?

You know what I think is interesting? That from the evidence of objection to offensive porn spamming, you would leap to the assumption of homophobia.

Not to mention, of course, the obvious fact that there's not actually anything wrong with being a homophobe. After all, homosexuals are disgusted by heterosexual sex acts and pornography, but we don't think there's anything wrong with their heterophobia, do we?

[Alt+F4]

After all, homosexuals are disgusted by heterosexual sex acts and pornography

Wrong.

[Finnegan]

You know what I think is interesting? That from the evidence of objection to offensive porn spamming, you would leap to the assumption of homophobia.

Hey there, faggot-asses.
That doesn't sound prejudiced?

Not to mention, of course, the obvious fact that there's not actually anything wrong with being a homophobe.

Homophobia: unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality.

[Thunder]

pornographic spam is gross. but there is no reason to use homophobic language towards the sender.

only people who are afraid of or intimidated by gays..use anti-gay language like "faggot".

if a black person spammed the board with pics of him having straight sex with his girlfriend..would it be ok to call him a "n$#%^r"?

[Par]

I'm quite sure they were spammed by a 'bot. Bots these days can find forums, sign up for them, evade the "captcha," and post spam all by themselves. The owners don't even know, unless they look, which systems the bots have spammed! -Benoh please. forum spammers are all too common, and its not like they are using their own server; they are using the FREE version of the forum, on an SHARED server. Next time, have better screening processes; better passwords, AND PUT the damn forum on your own PRIVATE server.


Indeed.

I only skimmed the thread in question, but it appeared that one of the moderators had listed the source IP addresses of the spam posts, tacitly encouraging other users to exact revenge. Oftentimes, however – and I dare say you are both well aware of the phenomenon – spam will originate from compromised machines, and so those addresses might well belong to people who are themselves victims. Thus, this “naming and shaming” policy – not to mention any potential retaliatory action – seems be both foolhardy and doubly unmerited.

[Slayhamlet]

Parky, the only homophobic sentiment in that thread is from one guy. Granted, that one guy happens to be an admin, but still, one guy.

[Finnegan]

Of course, this entire episode is irrelevant regarding 9/11 ;)

[theprestige]

Wrong.
Shouldn't you be asking me for evidence to support this claim?

But fair enough; I withdraw it.

[SpitfireIX]

Guys, take the "What constitues homophobia?" discussion to Social Issues, please, and stick to the facts.

Fact: some of the posters in the LCF thread referred to the spammers using slang/derogatory terms for homosexuals.

Fact: this indicates a childish level of immaturity.

Whether it indicates homophobia is debatable, IMO, and such a debate should go in social issues.

[Par]

You know what I think is interesting? That from the evidence of objection to offensive porn spamming, you would leap to the assumption of homophobia.


That’s something of a strawman argument. I don’t know if anyone has claimed that the objection to the material is indicative of homophobia. Rather, it’s vehemently homophobic language – the specific way in which the material as objected to.

[HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP]

Exactly.
Dylan and Co. are too cheap to put LCF on a private server.
Actually considering that Dylan seems to have abandoned LCF they will eventually dry up anyways,.
that's because twoofer bucks are not circulating yet.

[Alt+F4]

Shouldn't you be asking me for evidence to support this claim?

But fair enough; I withdraw it.

I thought you would ask me for evidence to refute it. Touché!

;)

[Slayhamlet]

Apparently JFK thinks the number of 'guests' in that thread is indicative of something sinister. I guess he hasn't realized yet that getting linked at JREF (90% of the time by parky) is one of the largest contributers to his pathetic forum's web traffic.

[Par]

Parky, the only homophobic sentiment in that thread is from one guy. Granted, that one guy happens to be an admin, but still, one guy.That’s something of a strawman argument. I don’t know if anyone has claimed that the objection to the material is indicative of homophobia. Rather, it’s vehemently homophobic language – the specific way in which the material as objected to.


Sorry, I hadn’t realised that the expressions of homophobia were peculiar to one user. In light of that, it seems like less of an issue.

[theprestige]

only people who are afraid of or intimidated by gays..use anti-gay language like "faggot".
Since we're on an avowedly skeptical forum, I'd like to see you support this claim with papers published in peer-reviewed journals, making the case for crypto-homophobia, and ruling out any other possible motivations for using the word "faggot" as a pejorative.

[Regnad Kcin]

...but i really really doubt any long standing member on this forum would engage in such an act."Long standing member." Snort.

[theprestige]

I thought you would ask me for evidence to refute it. Touché!

;)
Not me; I know where the burden of proof lies!

[Par]

Since we're on an avowedly skeptical forum, I'd like to see you support this claim with papers published in peer-reviewed journals, making the case for crypto-homophobia, and ruling out any other possible motivations for using the word "faggot" as a pejorative.


I (partially) agree with the former half of your request (although the mater isn’t for this particular subforum, obviously). But what do you mean by the latter half?

[beachnut]

Apparently JFK thinks the number of 'guests' in that thread is indicative of something sinister. I guess he hasn't realized yet that getting linked at JREF (90% of the time by parky) is one of the largest contributers to his pathetic forum's web traffic.
He is paranoid. He is trying to scare people? What a dolt.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/single/?p=80735&t=213904

Great example of the paranoia those who believe the false information of 9/11 truth have.

[Arus808]

Indeed.

I only skimmed the thread in question, but it appeared that one of the moderators had listed the source IP addresses of the spam posts, tacitly encouraging other users to exact revenge. Oftentimes, however – and I dare say you are both well aware of the phenomenon – spam will originate from compromised machines, and so those addresses might well belong to people who are themselves victims. Thus, this “naming and shaming” policy – not to mention any potential retaliatory action – seems be both foolhardy and doubly unmerited.


Yup sent from Zombied machines from those who run old windows without the security updates and such.

These guys are advocating illegal activities as well, because they are doing what amounts to be a DOS attack against someone that may not knowingly have helped in those postings.

Just like spam where the spammer spoofs the email address so that the innocent by stander whose email address the spammer uses, gets flooded with Mail Delivery error messages.

[Arus808]

and that thread demonstrates how clueless these guys are about the internet in general; by the ip list:

spammers are using (probably) hijacked/zombied machines from ISPs in
chicago, IL
Halifax Canada
Texas
PA
NV

[Arus808]

haha. now jfk thanks parky for helping to keep THEIR FREE FORUM afloat.

[theprestige]

I (partially) agree with the former half of your request (although the mater isn’t for this particular subforum, obviously). But what do you mean by the latter half?
I mean that since I'm asking for evidence to support a claim that only homophobes use the word as a pejorative, then logically that evidence must rule out other possibilities, so that only the possibility of homophobia remains.

[theprestige]

Guys, take the "What constitues homophobia?" discussion to Social Issues, please, and stick to the facts.

Whether it indicates homophobia is debatable, IMO, and such a debate should go in social issues.

(although the mater isn’t for this particular subforum, obviously)
See, I don't get this at all. Parky can run around accusing people of homophobia, and that's suitable for this subforum, but debating the propriety of parky's accusation, in the same thread that he created on that very topic, is off-limits?

[Par]

I mean that since I'm asking for evidence to support a claim that only homophobes use the word as a pejorative, then logically that evidence must rule out other possibilities, so that only the possibility of homophobia remains.


Oh, I see. I had thought you were making two separate points (but really the second was merely a description of a corollary of the first). Thanks.

[Par]

See, I don't get this at all. Parky can run around accusing people of homophobia, and that's suitable for this subforum, but debating the propriety of parky's accusation, in the same thread that he created on that very topic, is off-limits?


I don’t think your objection is unsuitable, by any means. My point was rather that an in-depth discussion of that particular issue (even if it were likely to occur, which it isn’t) isn’t suitable for this subforum. It would be Parky’s responsibility to substantiate his case, but in another subform. Until he does so, your objection stands, as far as I’m concerned.

[Mr.Herbert]

This is what you get for sticking up for a Skeptic in the Skeptic section of the LC Forum:

Error: Your access to this board has been blocked by the administration.

I didn't spam the idiots. I only told Waldo to grow some hair on his ba**s.

[Lonewulf]

My IP is also blocked. Which is weird, 'cause I'm pretty sure I never posted there.

[1337m4n]

My IP is also blocked. Which is weird, 'cause I'm pretty sure I never posted there.

Your profile says you're from Germany, right?

That's...uh...probably my fault...:o:o:o:o

Sorry about that...

[Lonewulf]

What, they're blocking all IPs based in Deutschland?

[Thunder]

See, I don't get this at all. Parky can run around accusing people of homophobia, and that's suitable for this subforum, but debating the propriety of parky's accusation, in the same thread that he created on that very topic, is off-limits?

who in the world argues whether or not using the word "faggot" might suggest one is indeed homophobic?

if someone calls me a "kike" should i give him the benefit of the doubt that he is not an anti-semite??

but, i'll be fair. only Gideon used the derogatory slang in question. so only Gideon appears to be the gay basher in the crowd.

someone should inform him that it is ok to be a homosexual.

[theprestige]

who in the world argues whether or not using the word "faggot" might suggest one is indeed homophobic?
Who in the world lurks on troofer sites looking for excuses to ridicule them, and then comes running back to the choir to preach about how ridiculous they are?

But that's beside the point. To answer your question: Someone who is personally familiar with a variety of subcultures and individuals who are not homophobic but who do use the word "faggot" as a pejorative.

But that's beside the point, too. Can you substantiate your claim of crypto-homophobia, or not?

if someone calls me a "kike" should i give him the benefit of the doubt that he is not an anti-semite??
There are individuals who use the word "n****r" without being racist.

[BenBurch]

...
There are individuals who use the word "n****r" without being racist.

Only BLACK people.

YOU have no business doing it. And its a good way to find yourself dead in some places I've been.

[Thunder]

prestige- are you suggesting Gideon used the word, not as an insult, but as a friendly term????

=)

i "lurk" in truther sites to find their weaknesses..and exploit them. i want the people of america to know who these people truly are..and what they truly believe.

[BenBurch]

prestige- are you suggesting Gideon used the word, not as an insult, but as a friendly term????
...

I've heard faggot used as a term of endearment; In a gay bar. So if that is what he means, he means all of them are gay?

[Thunder]

following that logic, and the use of other derogatory words by certain ethnic groups, that means only a member of such group can use such word.

I guess that means Gideon is gay? Not there is anything wrong with that.

[~enigma~]

-3319967978568410735

Sorry....couldn't resist :)

[BenBurch]

-3319967978568410735

Sorry....couldn't resist :)

:dl:

[Thunder]

the english..are sooooo weird. god help me..im going to england and wales in july.

[1337m4n]

What, they're blocking all IPs based in Deutschland?

Well, I sorta used a proxy that pulled IPs from Germany in order to bypass their ban, so, pretty much, yeah.

They are very zealous about keeping an April Fools joker out of a forum full of flame warriors and death threat makers.

[Cobalt]

-3319967978568410735

Sorry....couldn't resist :)

Epic. Hilarity ensued.

[Confuseling]

the english..are sooooo weird. god help me..im going to england and wales in july.

We all sing that each morning as well.

It's kinda like the pledge of allegiance here.

[BenBurch]

Well, I sorta used a proxy that pulled IPs from Germany in order to bypass their ban, so, pretty much, yeah.

They are very zealous about keeping an April Fools joker out of a forum full of flame warriors and death threat makers.

Every proxy in the world, almost; samair.ru

(I block them all)

[Par]

Someone who is personally familiar with a variety of subcultures and individuals who are not homophobic but who do use the word "faggot" as a pejorative... There are individuals who use the word "n****r" without being racist.


You’re right; “n****r” – like “faggot” – can be used in a non-racist sense. But had someone responded to pictures of black people with “Damned n****rs”, would you find such a defence reasonable?

[chillzero]

Firstly, the 'n-word' is one of the core words that is meant to be fully masked in the public sections of the forum. I have a difficulty in masking it here because it will make the flow of conversation difficult to follow. Please bear this in mind for all future posts, however, and do not continue to bypass the autocensor.

Secondly, I think this discussion is more suited to Social Issues, and will probably move it there, depending on if you keep it on topic or not. There's a bit of weaving around a few topics.

[Par]

There are individuals who use the word "*****" without being racist.Only BLACK people. YOU have no business doing it. And its a good way to find yourself dead in some places I've been.


“Forget” that. When you start assigning the propriety of certain terms and methods of expression solely on the basis of skin colour, you enter extremely dubious ethnocentric territory. Further, I do plenty of things that certain people would murder me for, if they could; “forget” them, too.

[theprestige]

After thinking it over, I realized that "homophobia" is probably the wrong term anyway. Perhaps something akin to "sexism" might be more appropriate.

But that's not the point. The point is, Parky is accusing someone of "deep homophobia", based purely on his opinion of the meaning of a certain word. Now, to me, since a person's homophobia has nothing to do with the quality of their reasoning about conspiracy theories, not only is it profoundly irrelevant to the topic of this subforum, but it's also a blatant ad hominem.

And on top of that, I strongly disagree with Parky's opinion about the word-usage. I know from personal experience in a variety of contexts, that Parky's analysis is flatly wrong. So I would like to see good, solid, rational, skeptic-satisfying support for the claim.

I would also be interested to know why it's not enough for Parky to successfully attack the argument, that he must also attack the person as well, and everyone around that person, without bothering to look closely at the people he's accusing of horrible thought-crimes. It's almost as if he's cherry-picking evidence to support some preconceived notion...

Finally, I don't mind at all if this thread is moved to some other subforum. Though I wouldn't mind at all if there were a subforum dedicated to the discussion of rational arguments, their construction, their standards of conduct, and the principles upon which they are founded. Sort of a subforum for meta-debates, if you will.

[BenBurch]

“Forget” that. When you start assigning the propriety of certain terms and methods of expression solely on the basis of skin colour, you enter extremely dubious ethnocentric territory. Further, I do plenty of things that certain people would murder me for, if they could; “forget” them, too.

I'm just relating to you the social norms in the USA.

You can love them or hate them, I am just telling you how it is.

If a lesbian wants to call HERSELF a dyke, that is very different from YOU calling her that. It is about OWNING the pejorative and so robbing it of its meaning.

[theprestige]

I'm just relating to you the social norms in the USA.

You can love them or hate them, I am just telling you how it is.

If a lesbian wants to call HERSELF a dyke, that is very different from YOU calling her that. It is about OWNING the pejorative and so robbing it of its meaning.
In my experience, a pejorative can also be robbed of its meaning when used "ironically".

There's also a whole sort of postmodernist question here. If the term has been robbed of its meaning, then who's to say it can't be used in this or that way? Lesbians reject the homophobic meaning of the word "dyke"; why not straight men? And who really "owns" the meaning of a word anyway? If you choose to be offended by it, that doesn't necessarily mean that I intended to offend you in that way (or even that I intended to offend you at all).

How does "I'm a lesbian, therefore you can't use 'dyke' for any reason at all, except to express your profound, irrational fear of lesbians; any other usage is invalid and you have no authority to claim otherwise" make any sense at all, even on its own terms?

If slang usage is not subject to rational, logical rules, but is rather subject purely to the feelings of the subcultures and individuals that use them, then my feelings about the word "dyke" are just as legitimate as a lesbian's are, for the purposes of determining proper usage.

Of course, there will probably be communication failures between subcultures, but that still doesn't mean one subculture is the authoritative "owner" of the word's true meaning for all subcultures.

[1337m4n]

Now, to me, since a person's homophobia has nothing to do with the quality of their reasoning about conspiracy theories, not only is it profoundly irrelevant to the topic of this subforum, but it's also a blatant ad hominem.


Wrong. Why is it so difficult for Truthers to understand what an "ad hominem" is?

NOT AN AD HOMINEM: You are an idiot.

AD HOMINEM: You are an idiot, therefore everything you say is wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Parky using the alleged homophobia of Truthers to refute any of their arguments.

[dudalb]

Of course, this entire episode is irrelevant regarding 9/11 ;)

100% agreed, but it tells you a lot about the 'dedication and comittiment" of the Twoofers.
They can't even cough up the small amount of money necessary to get a decent server and/or webhosting site that would block this kind of spam crap.

[Thunder]

I would also be interested to know why it's not enough for Parky to successfully attack the argument, that he must also attack the person as well, and everyone around that person, without bothering to look closely at the people he's accusing of horrible thought-crimes. It's almost as if he's cherry-picking evidence to support some preconceived notion...

.

talk about trying to find some complicated meaning into something so very very simple.

a guy posted porno-spam on LC. Gideon responded to the spam by calling the guy a "faggot". "faggot" is a homophobic word when coming from a straight person, so I naturally and logically labeled Gideon a homophob.

its that simple.

[BenBurch]

talk about trying to find some complicated meaning into something so very very simple.

a guy posted porno-spam on LC. Gideon responded to the spam by calling the guy a "faggot". "faggot" is a homophobic word when coming from a straight person, so I naturally and logically labeled Gideon a homophob.

its that simple.

And completely accurate.

It wasn't an ironic usage. It was a pejorative in that context.

[theprestige]

Wrong. Why is it so difficult for Truthers to understand what an "ad hominem" is?

NOT AN AD HOMINEM: You are an idiot.

AD HOMINEM: You are an idiot, therefore everything you say is wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Parky using the alleged homophobia of Truthers to refute any of their arguments.
I think it's strongly implied, especially when Parky says that he likes to tell us "what kind of people they are".

Why bother making personal attacks against conspiracy theorists, in a conspiracy theory forum, if you don't intend it to reflect negatively on their arguments?

[theprestige]

talk about trying to find some complicated meaning into something so very very simple.
I promise you I'm not trying to find a complicated meaning; any meaning at all will satisfy my curiosity.

a guy posted porno-spam on LC. Gideon responded to the spam by calling the guy a "faggot". "faggot" is a homophobic word when coming from a straight person,
I have extensive personal experience that contradicts this claim. Either provide good evidence for crypto-homophobia, or withdraw the claim. Put up or shut up.

so I naturally and logically labeled Gideon a homophob[sic].
Actually, you inconsiderately and unthinkingly labeled everybody in that thread a homophobe.

I don't know if it's natural for you to behave this way, but I suspect it is. On the other hand, until you can support your claims about crypto-homophobia with actual evidence, I think the only rational conclusion is that your response wasn't very logical at all.

its that simple.
You may have thought it was that simple when you started this thread, but I disagree. What, was the point of sharing your discovery with the Conspiracy Theories subforum? Were you debunking a theory? Promoting meaningful debate? There are plenty of alleged homophobes on record; why did you choose to draw our attention to these ones in particular? What, exactly, did you think you were contributing?

And completely accurate.

It wasn't an ironic usage. It was a pejorative in that context.
Re-read my posts. I never claimed Gideon was using it ironically.

On the other hand, I have seen that word used both ironically and pejoratively at the same time.

I think you, Parky, and others are seriously underestimating the extent of subcultures that could not care less about a person's sexuality, but use the word as a pejorative. As far as I can tell, these subcultures value the word as a pejorative precisely because it is so taboo. It doesn't just express dislike for another person, it also expresses gross disregard for the larger culture's values. It represents an unacceptable thoughtcrime: Homophobia. It's offensive even to say it. And to use it as a pejorative even when you're not guilty of the thoughtcrime it implies? That's exactly the kind of irony these subcultures value highly.

I'm not saying that Gideon is a member of such a subculture, or that he's using the word in such a way. There are other options.

What I'm curious about, though, is whether or not Parky, a self-styled sceptic, can take it as well as dish it out. Does he actually have good evidence to support his claim, or is he--like so many truthers out there--inclined to unthinkingly cling to his desired conclusions in the face of rational inquiry?

[16.5]

Even though I've never been a member there, I've been IP banned.

And now the toolbox JFK accuses me of being the spammer.

[Darth Rotor]

Of course, this entire episode is irrelevant regarding 9/11 ;)

How so? 9-11 was an inside blowjob.