Stop the passage of the Boy Scouts Commemorative Coin

[MattusMaximus]

From our friends at the Secular Coalition for America:

Action Alert: Stop the passage of the Boy Scouts Commemorative Coin

May 21, 2008 - Last week the House of Representatives passed legislation (H.R. 5872) creating a commemorative coin for the Boy Scouts of America, an organization that explicitly discriminates against nontheists (as well as gays) in admission, employment, and even volunteer opportunities. By directing the U.S. Mint to produce commemorative coins as a fundraiser for the Boy Scouts of America (BSA), the House is sending an estimated $3.5 million dollars directly to their organization. As this legislation moves to the Senate for confirmation, the Secular Coalition for America asks that you write your Senators and voice your opposition to this bill.

The Secular Coalition for America urges Congress to bar the use of federal funds to assist any organization that discriminates based on religion. Allowing a commemorative coin to be created in honor of the Boy Scouts not only demonstrates that Congress agrees with the religious discrimination practices of the BSA, but moreover, wants to financially assist the organization.

The "Declaration of Religious Principle," found in BSA's organization's bylaws must be agreed to by every participant, volunteer, or employee. This declaration states that "no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God...The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members."

The BSA is the direct beneficiary of any money made by this commemorative coin and will use this money to further its values and continue discriminating against those without a god-belief. It will continue to teach young boys that only god-believers can be good citizens.

Although we were unable to stop this legislation in the House, we are asking you to help us keep this legislation off the floor of the Senate by reaching out to your state Senators now. Please contact your Senators and tell them to stop allowing private organizations that discriminate on the basis of religion from benefiting from federal endorsement and government fundraising schemes.

Take a stand!

At the link below is a sample letter to send to your Senators about the Boy Scouts of America commemorative coin legislation. Please feel free to adapt it to your voice and provide additional information of importance to you. Our system will direct your e-mail to the appropriate Senators based on your address.

http://action.secular.org/t/5367/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=24662

[MattusMaximus]

From our friends at the Secular Coalition for America:

Action Alert: Stop the passage of the Boy Scouts Commemorative Coin

May 21, 2008 - Last week the House of Representatives passed legislation (H.R. 5872) creating a commemorative coin for the Boy Scouts of America, an organization that explicitly discriminates against nontheists (as well as gays) in admission, employment, and even volunteer opportunities. By directing the U.S. Mint to produce commemorative coins as a fundraiser for the Boy Scouts of America (BSA), the House is sending an estimated $3.5 million dollars directly to their organization. As this legislation moves to the Senate for confirmation, the Secular Coalition for America asks that you write your Senators and voice your opposition to this bill.

The Secular Coalition for America urges Congress to bar the use of federal funds to assist any organization that discriminates based on religion. Allowing a commemorative coin to be created in honor of the Boy Scouts not only demonstrates that Congress agrees with the religious discrimination practices of the BSA, but moreover, wants to financially assist the organization.

The "Declaration of Religious Principle," found in BSA's organization's bylaws must be agreed to by every participant, volunteer, or employee. This declaration states that "no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God...The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members."

The BSA is the direct beneficiary of any money made by this commemorative coin and will use this money to further its values and continue discriminating against those without a god-belief. It will continue to teach young boys that only god-believers can be good citizens.

Although we were unable to stop this legislation in the House, we are asking you to help us keep this legislation off the floor of the Senate by reaching out to your state Senators now. Please contact your Senators and tell them to stop allowing private organizations that discriminate on the basis of religion from benefiting from federal endorsement and government fundraising schemes.

Take a stand!

At the link below is a sample letter to send to your Senators about the Boy Scouts of America commemorative coin legislation. Please feel free to adapt it to your voice and provide additional information of importance to you. Our system will direct your e-mail to the appropriate Senators based on your address.

http://action.secular.org/t/5367/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=24662

[Texas]

Geeze.

[lionking]

While not contesting your main point about intolerance of atheists, shouldn't this be somewhat balanced by the good the movement has done in the past century? And I am not a former boy scout.

[MattusMaximus]

While not contesting your main point about intolerance of atheists, shouldn't this be somewhat balanced by the good the movement has done in the past century? And I am not a former boy scout.


In answer to your question: No.

I am a former Boy Scout, and back in those days the BSA hadn't yet been hijacked by those with a religious agenda, so as an atheist I felt pretty welcome. Sadly, today it's a different, much less tolerant organization.

If the BSA wants to discriminate on the basis of religion and sexual orientation, they are within their rights - but they shouldn't receive public funds or special recognition from our government.

And until the BSA cleans up their act, I will never again donate one penny to them.

[UserGoogol]

I'm somewhat ambivalent about it. I can appreciate the criticism being made in that the Boy Scouts are too religious and discriminatory an institution and therefore the government should not get involved with them, and if I personally was a Congressman I might vote against it. But at the same time, creating a coin to commemorate the Boy Scouts seems to serve a legitimate secular purpose (in that they are a significant American institution) and Congress is not directly giving money to the Boy Scouts, merely having the Treasury mint a coin such that profits will go to the Boy Scouts, which is ethically and probably legally different since the only people giving money to the Boy Scouts would be people who choose to give money to the Boy Scouts.

At any rate, the house passed it by the impressive majority of 403 to 8 (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll327.xml), so it's probably somewhat futile.

[shemp]

If Congress swallows this coin, the only way to stop its passage will be a butt plug.

[Hokulele]

Does anyone know if local/state chapters have any autonomy? Hawai'i is probably the least theistic state in the US, but the Scouts (Boy and Girl) thrive out here. I have never heard of any issues with Boy Scouts denying people with backgrounds in Buddhism, the indigenous Hawai'ian practices, or even no religion at all. I have sponsored an Eagle Scout at his dinner ceremony (whatever the heck it was called officially), but don't recall any issues with the people who attended (several were parents of the Scouts) being non-religious. It is a small community, most people know waaay too much about each other, and atheists are relatively common.

[lionking]

For what it's worth, two of my children were scouts and they never reported anything about religion nor did I ever see anything in their literature. But this is not to say that there might have been more subtle influences.

Besides, doesn't AA ask for participants to acknowledge some sort of god? I'll bet they get government support (but don't know for sure).

[Janus]

For what it's worth, two of my children were scouts and they never reported anything about religion nor did I ever see anything in their literature. But this is not to say that there might have been more subtle influences.

Scouts Australia use to be a Christian based organization but diversified during the 80's and 90's; So much so that the religious requirements are so vague as to be practically unenforceable.

The Boy Scouts of America on the other hand, are reputedly much more conservative.

[Gazpacho]

Does anyone know if local/state chapters have any autonomy?
Each unit operates under bylaws that are laid out by its sponsor institution.

(Also, no the LDS church does not control the BSA. It does, however, sponsor more units than any other single institution. 18% of the units in the US, last time I checked. Or maybe it was units accounting for 18% of scouts. Something like that.)

[Soapy Sam]

I think passage blocking is best left to the boy scout leaders, who I understand are reputed to have experience in that field.

[lionking]

Cheap shot soapy and not really funny.

[Wolfman]

Well, I've gotta' admit, I was skeptical when I first read this...thought that a few passages were being exaggerated, or taken out of context. So I did some Googling, to see what I could find. I found bsalegal.org (http://www.bsalegal.org/duty-to-god-cases-224.asp), which apparently is the branch of the BSA that deals with legal issues. From their site:
A boy is required to either �[e]arn the religious emblem of your faith� or do two of the following:

�Attend the church, synagogue, mosque, or other religious organization of your choice, talk with your religious leader about your beliefs, and tell your family and Webelos den leader about what you learned.�;

�Tell how your religious beliefs fit in with the Scout Oath and Scout Law, Discuss this with your family and Webelos den leader: What character-building traits do your beliefs and the Scout Oath and Scout Law have in common?�;

�With your religious leader, discuss and write down two things you think will help you draw nearer to God. Do these things.�;

�Pray to God or meditate reverently each day as taught by your family, and by your church, synagogue, or religious group. Do this for at least one month.�;

�Under the direction of your religious leader, do an act of service for someone else. Talk about your service with your family and Webelos den leader. Tell them how it made you feel.�; or

�List at least two ways you believe you have lived according to your religious beliefs.�So...it doesn't appear that this promotes Christianity in particular...as long as you believe in some kind of god or religion, you are okay.

But what about atheists? Just a little further down, we have this:
Boy Scouts of America believes that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. Accordingly, youth members and adult volunteer leaders of Boy Scouts of America obligate themselves to do their duty to God and be reverent as embodied in the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. Leaders also must subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle. Because of its views concerning the duty to God, Boy Scouts of America believes that an atheist or agnostic is not an appropriate role model of the Scout Oath and Law for adolescent boys. Because of Scouting�s methods and beliefs, Scouting does not accept atheists and agnostics as members or adult volunteer leaders.Children can be excluded from BSA based on the fact that they are atheists; adults can be denied the chance to be BSA leaders based on the fact that they are atheists. This is, shockingly, an official policy (albeit I suspect that it is not aggressively enforced).

I've gotta' say, this dismays me...and yeah, I have questions as to whether an organization that actively discriminates against people based on religious beliefs (or lack thereof) should be given a commemorative coin. If the Boy Scouts were an atheist organization that excluded Christians, you can be damn sure that they wouldn't get such a coin then.

[Soapy Sam]

"Cheap shot soapy and not really funny."

Well, it was sort of funny, given how it all ended; but it's 40 some years ago, so best forgotten. At least I don't recall any particular emphasis on religion...

[fuelair]

I think passage blocking is best left to the boy scout leaders, who I understand are reputed to have experience in that field.
:D wonder if priests can lead scout packs?

[LawnOven]

Geeze.

I agree; its wrong that such an organization gets government funding. Its downright un-American.

[LawnOven]

If the Boy Scouts were an atheist organization that excluded Christians, you can be damn sure that they wouldn't get such a coin then.


Err, yeah and then there's the whole anti-homo thing that they have been blatant about for years, certainly it doesn't take a lot of research to find out whether or not that's true.


...Then there's also the little thing of them being taken over by the LDS.

http://www.ldsbsa.org/

[DaChew]

This is an election year. The vast, vast majority of people in this country believe in god. The Boy Scouts are a beloved American institution. This is going to pass so fast your head is going to need high speed bearings.

May 15 vote count H.R. 5872
403 ayes
8 nays
22 abs

[Darth Rotor]

Glad to see forests and trees are still difficult to discern.

I learned to drink, spit, smoke and swear effectively in the Boy Scouts. Also became handy with knots, hand axes, fire, and knives.

Life lessons well used.

DR

[LawnOven]

Glad to see forests and trees are still difficult to discern.

I learned to drink, spit, smoke and swear effectively in the Boy Scouts. Also became handy with knots, hand axes, fire, and knives.

Life lessons well used.

DR

No doubt, but... you're not a homosexual or atheist; are you?

[Foolmewunz]

I don't care if it's a bakery that makes bread for orphans, the association of traffic crossing guards, or the BSA... Any organization that places restrictions on employment or enrollment based on a Deist requirement deserves no government funding. Where's RPiR... "It's in the Constitution!"

[Upchurch]

No doubt, but... you're not a homosexual or atheist; are you?
I'm an Eagle Scout and I'm an atheist. (I also associate with homosexuals, but that is neither here nor there.)

To be honest, in my day and area, Scouting had a much more Native American religious feel than Christian religious feel. I never got the impression that anyone expected me to believe in an actual spirit of nature or whatever. I'm not sure where this came from and it hasn't bee that long since I was actively in it. 15 years, maybe?


eta:
Some Eagle Scouts have returned their badges to protest what they see as the BSA's discriminatory policies. The anti-discrimination group Scouting for All claimed to have received as many as one thousand letters from Eagle Scouts who have done so; the BSA later stated that less than one hundred Eagle Scout badges have been returned.
(source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Scout_(Boy_Scouts_of_America)#Controversies) )

As much as I disagree with this one policy, I'm still find value in the organization as a whole. I don't think I could bring my self to return the award.

[BPSCG]

(I also associate with homosexuals, but that is neither here nor there.)If they're neither here nor there, where are they? Need to know where to look so we can hunt them down and throw rocks at them... :duck:

[Gazpacho]

...Then there's also the little thing of them being taken over by the LDS.

http://www.ldsbsa.org/

*sigh*

Also, no the LDS church does not control the BSA. It does, however, sponsor more units than any other single institution. 18% of the units in the US, last time I checked. Or maybe it was units accounting for 18% of scouts. Something like that.
Sometimes Penn and Teller dish out a little ************ themselves, unfortunately.

[Ladewig]

Besides, doesn't AA ask for participants to acknowledge some sort of god? I'll bet they get government support (but don't know for sure).

No. Alcoholics Anonymous is very proud of its tradition of funding itself.

[andyandy]

Perhaps the American version of the Boy Scout is a seething mass of intolerance, but it is not representative of the Scout movement worldwide.......

The UK movement is a pretty tolerant organisation - even girls are allowed in :)

[fishbob]

Cheap shot soapy and not really funny.

Cheap shot - no doubt.

But most definitely funny.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I was part of the Scouts, and had many a ga-

I mean, I didn't find it to be imposingly Christian *shifty eyes*.





But seriously, Kucinich voted Nay! Woot! Vote Kucinich!

I await us all bemoaning the fact that all the presidential nominees will vote Yea.

[MattusMaximus]

(Also, no the LDS church does not control the BSA. It does, however, sponsor more units than any other single institution. 18% of the units in the US, last time I checked. Or maybe it was units accounting for 18% of scouts. Something like that.)


You're wrong. You really need to get current on the numbers... try 35%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_scouts_of_america#Units_and_chartered_organiza tions

The LDS Church controls 36,713 units out of 104,928 in the United States as of December 2007. So all by themselves, the Mormons control over one-third of the BSA units. Believe me, it didn't used to be that way back when I was a Scout.

Control over a third of the units gives the LDS Church a helluva lot of clout when dictating BSA policy. If they want to institute an official "no atheist, no agnostic, no gay" policy, how hard do you think it would've been for the Mormons to do so? All they had to do was threaten to pull their sponsorship once they controlled enough units. I believe that, in fact, this is what happened.

And, if you factor in the sponsorship by the United Methodist Church (11,695 units) and the Roman Catholic Church (9400 units) - both of which are pretty conservative groups - then these two and the LDS Church control over 55% of the units in the BSA. That gives them a majority and allows them to pressure the organization to institute pretty much any policy they wish.

The BSA won't get the message until enough people boycott the organization and cease giving it support and money. Until the day that the BSA turns around, I will turn my support to groups like the Girl Scouts and Scouting For All...

http://www.scoutingforall.org/data/home.html

I would encourage others here to do likewise.

[Gazpacho]

First, the total number of units is 121,034, which brings your percentage down to 30%.

Total youth in LDS units: 400729
Total youth in BSA units: 2855170
Percentage of youth in LDS units: 14%.

Now, if were to split hairs and look only at actual Boy Scout units, about 22% of Boy Scouts are in LDS units.

In any case, as I said, you're exaggerating the LDS influence. The Mormons have a lot of relatively small units.

Scapegoating the Mormons, as if they're the source of Christian intolerance in this country, isn't fair to the Mormons nor to the other denominations that have anti-gay doctrines.

[ZenFountain]

I am a former Boy Scout, and back in those days the BSA hadn't yet been hijacked by those with a religious agenda, so as an atheist I felt pretty welcome. Sadly, today it's a different, much less tolerant organization.

I was a scout circa 1990-2002, cub scout all the way to eagle. Although I never took the organization too seriously, I just liked camping and screwing around with friends, I don't remember there being any kind of religious agenda. And this was in the bible belt of all places.

[Gazpacho]

Probably the first week I was in the Boy Scouts (when I was being drilled on the "Scout" or initiation rank) there was a discussion of the scout law. We got to "reverent" and the senior patrol leader asked what that would mean for agnostics (without any particular knowledge of whether anybody was one). I said that they should respect the religious beliefs of other people, and that was accepted.

That was a troop sponsored by a United Methodist Church. I respected the prayers and nobody was ever kicked out for being an unbeliever. Gays were not an obvious problem, as it was generally understood that there were no gays in that town (yes, it seems lame now, but that's how things were).

I think broad changes in attitudes toward gays, away from the Christian-defined ideas of the past are more responsible for the BSA's problems than any supposed "takeover" of the organization.

[Bob Blaylock]

You're wrong. You really need to get current on the numbers... try 35%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_scouts_of_america#Units_and_chartered_organiza tions
The BSA won't get the message until enough people boycott the organization and cease giving it support and money.


Which isn't going to happen — at least not any time soon — because as much as you might wish it to be otherwise, the vast majority of Americans happen to agree with the values for which the Boy Scouts stand.

[LawnOven]

Which isn't going to happen — at least not any time soon — because as much as you might wish it to be otherwise, the vast majority of Americans happen to agree with the values for which the Boy Scouts stand.


Still as a matter of principal I'm amused so many skeptics here are being so difficult.

Seems like a lot of people have a soft spot for the boy scouts, an admittedly bigoted institution.

[LawnOven]

I'm an Eagle Scout and I'm an atheist. (I also associate with homosexuals, but that is neither here nor there.)

To be honest, in my day and area, Scouting had a much more Native American religious feel than Christian religious feel. I never got the impression that anyone expected me to believe in an actual spirit of nature or whatever. I'm not sure where this came from and it hasn't bee that long since I was actively in it. 15 years, maybe?


eta:

(source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Scout_%28Boy_Scouts_of_America%29#Controvers ies))

As much as I disagree with this one policy, I'm still find value in the organization as a whole. I don't think I could bring my self to return the award.

I brought up the LDS kind of as a joke.

So you know gay people and your an atheist, And an Eagle Scout thats fine. Still unless you can tell me that people have not been booted out of the boy scouts, no one, merely because of their religious beliefs or sexual orientation then what you say is irrelevant.


The organization gets government money, and its fundamentally bigoted. Thats the problem.

[Dragoonster]

I was a scout circa 1990-2002, cub scout all the way to eagle. Although I never took the organization too seriously, I just liked camping and screwing around with friends, I don't remember there being any kind of religious agenda. And this was in the bible belt of all places.

I was one in VA for a few years in the mid-80s, I don't remember any religious trappings or requirements at all. Not in club meetings, or larger meetings, or the olympics events.

This makes it hard for me to comment on the issue. That link from their legal page is very worrying, but how long has it been in effect? If that's official policy but is ignored in most cases I don't have much of a problem with the coin issue.

If it really is that bad nowadays, I'd be more inclined to object, mainly for the apparent direct payment to them. But overall I'd be more just sad that the organization would've transformed like that. My experience as a scout was really good. :(

[TragicMonkey]

They don't sell cookies, and if they don't sell cookies, they can go to hell.

Bring me some Samoas! And Tagalongs! And Thin Mints!

If the Scout Wars ever break out, I'm siding with the Girls.

[Rob Lister]

I'm an Eagle Scout and I'm an atheist. (I also associate with homosexuals, but that is neither here nor there.)

Is that what they're calling it now?

I was briefly a member but found the sleeping arrangements on outings far too rustic.

My youngest wanted to join but after seeing the cost of enrollment (uniforms and other fees) I decided to teach him the fine art of camping out in the minivan (while it was in the driveway so as to save gas and still have access to the living room couch).

At any rate, I'll gladly support my elected representatives in supporting this initiative. I actually like the scouts...like the idea of the scouts...have no problem whatsoever with their supposed religious bigotry (don't like it, don't join) or refusal to admit those that are openly gay (let'em join the girl scouts/vice versa).

much ado, so little time.

[Hokulele]

If the Scout Wars ever break out, I'm siding with the Girls.


Especially the Grrl Scouts, vicious little things.

[Dragoonster]

Especially the Grrl Scouts, vicious little things.

My sister was a girl scout, I hated paying full price for s'mores, though I always ordered at least two boxes. Darn sisters and their girl scout regulations!

Going back to my boy scouts experience, it gained me friends at an awkward time and confidence as a kid, and the first idea of helping a team at the olympics (I finished third!). It also allowed me to rapport with my old grandfather, who helped me complete my entrant into the soap-box derby with his lapidary/grinding equipment. I lived an hour from him and didn't see him much but he was interested enough to spend some very quality time with me, in his twilight years.

I just can't express enough how sad I am if the boy scouts have been usurped by theist groups :(

[Rob Lister]

Especially the Grrl Scouts, vicious little things.

that's because they only accept 'pocket knife on the beltloop-carrying' lesbians. Lipstick lesbians are culled at the brownie stage. It's a fact. Look it up in the library of congress.

[Beerina]

You go do a Google search forl lesbian girl scouts. I ain't touchin' that one.

[TragicMonkey]

Of course, it's kind of silly to think that children are going to be defined by what adults running their organization want. People fondly imagine that they can shape children and "bring them up" however they wish. It doesn't work that way. Hell, I was an altar boy when I was a kid. Kids don't give a crap about personal politics or philosophy. They just want to have fun.

[Checkmite]

Control over a third of the units gives the LDS Church a helluva lot of clout when dictating BSA policy. If they want to institute an official "no atheist, no agnostic, no gay" policy, how hard do you think it would've been for the Mormons to do so? All they had to do was threaten to pull their sponsorship once they controlled enough units. I believe that, in fact, this is what happened.

My experience, both as a Scout and as a leader for a short time, tells me there's no way this is possible. The sponsoring organization's job is to provide a meeting place for it's troop, and help financially when it's time to renew the specific unit's charter. There is a single member of the troop leadership who officially represents the sponsor, and he only deals with the BSA within his individual troop. Sponsors do not deal with the Scouting organization on any higher level - there's no mechanism that exists whereby this is possible. If a sponsor decides, for whatever reason, to stop sponsoring a troop (and this happens occasionally), the troop usually just finds another sponsor and moves to the new meeting hall. There's no shortage of groups out there willing to sponsor a Scout troop, trust me.

In addition, it's my opinion that the BSA's exclusion of gays is in no wise religiously based, but rather an example of an organization caving to public opinion.

[TragicMonkey]

In addition, it's my opinion that the BSA's exclusion of gays is in no wise religiously based, but rather an example of an organization caving to public opinion.

Except that in many places, public opinion is pressuring them to go the other way, and they're resisting.

[Darth Rotor]

No doubt, but... you're not a homosexual or atheist; are you?
I am 48. I was a boy then (11-13) as a Scout, in a troop run by two Army Sergeants. All this rot about the Boy Scouts being some religious organization is completely foreign to me. I don't know if the Scouts changed, or the variations between sponsoring organizations is what accounts for the odd stories I keep seeing.

When I was a Scout, I was agnostic, and no one gave a flying fart. If I didn't show up on time, or failed to STFU when the Scout Sign went up, I might catch some trouble.

Not a homosexual?

Correct.

DR

[Checkmite]

Except that in many places, public opinion is pressuring them to go the other way, and they're resisting.

Well, there is a difference. The former public opinion was of a sort that was beginning to result in a membership decline - which, member-reliant organizations being what they are, caught the BSA's attention. The latest public opinion does not seem to be having a similar effect (not yet, anyway).

[TX50]

Err, yeah and then there's the whole anti-homo thing that they have been blatant about for years...


Isn't there some strong supposition that Baden-Powell himself
was gay? Oh, the hypocrisy!

[TragicMonkey]

Well, there is a difference. The former public opinion was of a sort that was beginning to result in a membership decline - which, member-reliant organizations being what they are, caught the BSA's attention. The latest public opinion does not seem to be having a similar effect (not yet, anyway).

Maybe it's not hurting the membership, but it's hurting the wallet. They're losing some of the special treatment they've been getting, which is getting expensive because apparently some places they haven't had to pay rent up until recently.

[1337m4n]

I think the BSA's exclusion of homosexuals is merely an extension of the fact that it's an all-male institution--gays are excluded for the same reason females are excluded.

That's the way it is in the military anyhow--not that females are excluded from the military, but I've never heard of a co-ed unit.

I remember a war veteran had explained it to me some years ago. The reason was more complicated than just "we don't want any boom-boom going on during a mission", but that's all I seem to remember.

[TragicMonkey]

I think the BSA's exclusion of homosexuals is merely an extension of the fact that it's an all-male institution--gays are excluded for the same reason females are excluded.

That's the way it is in the military anyhow--not that females are excluded from the military, but I've never heard of a co-ed unit.

I remember a war veteran had explained it to me some years ago. The reason was more complicated than just "we don't want any boom-boom going on during a mission", but that's all I seem to remember.

If the percentage of gays in the Boy Scouts is even half of the percentage of gays in the military, then they might as well give up the pretense of excluding them.

[CaptainManacles]

So...it doesn't appear that this promotes Christianity in particular...as long as you believe in some kind of god or religion, you are okay.

But that's not entirely true either. It's fine as long as you're Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, which from anything other then an american ethno-centric perspective, you might as well be talking about the same religion. This general delusion that every religion on the planet is monothestic and believes in the ten commandments is widespread but still a delusion. Reading those passages, it would be hard for many religious people to be scouts.

[Mobyseven]

While not contesting your main point about intolerance of atheists, shouldn't this be somewhat balanced by the good the movement has done in the past century? And I am not a former boy scout.

I'm not too big on the history of the boy scouts, but remember that the BSA and the Scouts in Australia are two very different organisations.

(Said the former scout...)