Can you help?

[UKDan]

This message is for non-religous people. If you are, please do not read on, or reply (any replies will be ignored).

I've just met a group of very pleasant 19 year old christians in a restaurant and against my better judgement was drawn in to a discussion on (1). the historical evidence of Jesus and (2) living according to the bible.

I know such dialogue is futile but I said I could send them a few links to at least make them think and it would be nice if this were possible - I do find it a bit distressing that ones so young display such clear signs of brainwashing.

Could anyone help me with links/ straightforward arguments. As regards (1) I seem to remember that a passage by Josephus is the only reference to Jesus that has any real historical weight - any links appreciated.

2. I'd like to give a few examples of parts of the bible that obviously shouldn't be followed - any suggestions? I know of the Freedom from religion website but if I just posted the link I think they would just see it as propaganda.



Thanks for any help.

[UnrepentantSinner]

The web is full of stuff. Here's a good essay from a non-believer perspective on the historicity of Jesus.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_still/jesus_search.html

The Josephus reference is widely considered to be an insertion by later copyist. Most damning of it being a legitimate opinion of Josephus (we was writing about 70 years after Jesus' crucifixion) was that he was a Pharasaic Jew and it would be heretical for him to proclaim a dead man Messiah.

You can find more about him and other ancient writers in this critique of a historical apologetic.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/chap5.html

As far as living by the Bible goes, there are plenty of passages that violate the Golden Rule and other rules for decent behavior and overall social harmony, but others have those closer at hand than I do. For myself, every religion has bits and pieces of social and individual wisdom that could be inculcated into how you live your life.

[csense]

So let me get this straight...you think they're wrong, and you're right, but you don't know why you're right, or for that matter, why they're wrong.

...and you think they're brainwashed

[!Xx+-Rational-+xX!]

Use travellers favorite bible quotes!

"He spilled his semen on the ground. What he did was wicked in the Lord's sight; so he put him to death also." (Gen. 38:9-10)

"This is what the Lord says: "Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight." (2 Sam. 12:11)