Ed And Lorraine Warren

[heavensblade23]

Anyone have anything insightful to say about Ed And Lorraine Warren, the 'demonologists'?

Obviously some of their stories strain credulity. A demon-possessed Raggedy Ann doll seems unlikely to say the least, but it makes a great (fictional) story nonetheless.

Are there any stories about them being involved in hoaxes or fraud? I know they were involved in the Amityville case, and there seems be a lot of well-poisoning on the web concerning the involvement of Kaplan, who was one of the major players in exposing the Amityville phenomenon as a hoax. Related wikipedia articles largely seems to agree with Kaplan.

I find their devout Christian faith pretty perplexing. I'm reading a book on Ouija Boards right now and they pretty much said you should run away from one like it's on fire...but at the same time Lorraine Warren is supposedly a psychic and a medium herself. I'm not really sure what the great distinction is between using a ouija board to communicate with spirits and making use of psychic powers and mediumistic abilities to do the same. In fact, if you were inclined to believe in such things, it seems to me that using a board would be less dangerous because it's indirect contact. They also seem to hold some belief in 'earthbound' human spirits which is also at odds with their professed faith.

Anyway, thoughts?

[tiger]

I'm not really sure what the great distinction is between using a ouija board to communicate with spirits and making use of psychic powers and mediumistic abilities to do the same


Welcome to the forum!
The ouija board, meduims and psychics all have the same distinction none are true and they can never produce the claimed effect!

[fuelair]

Also, anyone who claims to be Christian but use Ouija Boards/Crystal Balls, reads palms, does psychic readings/tarot readings, etc. is clearly excessively ignorant or is lying. Bible expressly and/or explicitly forbids such with rather colorful and quite precise language.

[Jeff Corey]

That's the old testament, the revised version allows a number of things, like BLTs, shtupping the missus at certain formerly forbidden times of the month and steamers.

[grayman]

That's the old testament, the revised version allows a number of things, like BLTs, shtupping the missus at certain formerly forbidden times of the month and steamers.

MMMMM steamers...

[imjohn]

Obviously some of their stories strain credulity.

You, my friend, are a master of understatement.

The horror writer, Ray Garton, worked on a book for them. The things he had to say were not complimentary.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.ghost-stories/msg/4ce9a0178e6c2330

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/interviews/rgarton.html

[heavensblade23]

You, my friend, are a master of understatement.

I was trying to be charitable. :)


The horror writer, Ray Garton, worked on a book for them. The things he had to say were not complimentary.


This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks.

[Miss Whiplash]

I contacted Mr. Garton about this two years ago. He did indeed post that and stands by his statement. The thread is floating around here somewhere. Ed did have some form of mental illness. In any event, he spent the bulk of his adult life on disability. That's how he was able to live such a freewheeling life, painting pictures of haunted houses, until the ghost hunting thing took off.

BTW-Ed's nephew, John Zaffis has taken over the biz, since Ed died.

[Minarvia]

BTW-Ed's nephew, John Zaffis has taken over the biz, since Ed died.

It was a month or so ago that "The Paracast" had John Zaffis on for a 2 hour interview. It was interesting enough but during the first hour he said "keep an open mind" so much that I wanted to reach thru my iPod and slap him. Apparantly the hosts felt that way, too, as in the 2nd half of the show he didn't say that.

I didn't know he was the Warren's nephew until that show. Talk about riding on the coattails of famous people. Well, at least he comes off as a little more credible than his aunt and uncle.

[Beerina]

MMMMM steamers...

A Google search, but you prolly don't wanna go here. Check out the blue subtitle of the last entry.



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[godless dave]

Are there any stories about them being involved in hoaxes or fraud? I know they were involved in the Amityville case

Looks like you answered your own question there.

[ExMinister]

The horror writer, Ray Garton, worked on a book for them. The things he had to say were not complimentary.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.folklore.ghost-stories/msg/4ce9a0178e6c2330

You gotta love the internet - If nothing else, it's making it harder and harder for the con artists and frauds to keep such behavior secret. Though it's just one person's opinion, it strikes me as believable as far as it goes. And this couple sounds particularly miserable in their choice of who to exploit.

[Miss Whiplash]

The Warren's scared quite a few people out of their houses and made a mint off the gullible. IIRC, Lorraine was sued last fall by those involved in a past case.

I don't have a whole lot for John Zaffis either. One "demon possessed" woman died after several exorcisms. The woman had terminal cancer and was at the end stage anyway. Still, I fail to see how indulging a terminal cancer patient's delusions comforted her or her family.

[Goshawk]

That's the old testament, the revised version allows a number of things, like BLTs, shtupping the missus at certain formerly forbidden times of the month and steamers.



True, many of the Levitical cultural proscriptions have been dropped by the Christian church, but the basic principle of being forbidden to consult a medium, witch, spiritist, etc. remains the same, and remains a part of Christian doctrine.

The principle being, from Isaiah 8:19, "When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?"

Which I always thought was an excellent point.

So anybody who hangs out a shingle as a medium consulting the spirits, and claims to be a Christian, is either lying, or horribly deluded as to what being a Christian entails.

[imjohn]

I always thought the Warrens were the worst of the ghost hunters. I used to enjoy Hans Holzer's books, but the first Warren book I read was also the last Warren book I read. Holzer's escapapades with Sybil Leek seemed like hokey fun, but the Warrens just took it all very seriously and their Demonologist crap was straight out of the Exorcist.

[Monza]

Heavensblade23, you may want to contact the folks at the New England Skeptic Society. They are the one who put out the weekly podcast, The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe. They have interviewed the Warrens on more than one occaision, I believe.

In one of their podcasts from a couple years ago, they tell a story where Steven Novella, Perry Deangelis and (I think) Jay Novella visited the Warren's home. While in the basement viewing the assortment of demonic objects, Ed Warren warned them not to touch anything for fear of inviting evil. Jay claimed that as soon as Ed turned his back, "I started touching everything I could". Good times. :)

[ponderingturtle]

True, many of the Levitical cultural proscriptions have been dropped by the Christian church, but the basic principle of being forbidden to consult a medium, witch, spiritist, etc. remains the same, and remains a part of Christian doctrine.

The principle being, from Isaiah 8:19, "When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?"


I don't know ask the catholics with the saints.