The Banana as proof of Intelligent Design

[headscratcher4]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/06/take-that-dawki.html

I'm sure many of you have seen this video...but it was my first time. The facile argument being made is astonishing. The complete ignorance -- intentional ignorance -- of science displayed is equally astonishing.

[Hellbound]

http://www.godlessbastard.com/GotLogic.html

Yeah, it's designed alright )

ETA: Actually, SkeptiWiki has a good article on it: http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Bananas:_The_Atheist's_Worst_Nightmare

[Third Eye Open]

Still not as ridiculous as the one involving canned food. I don't remember exactly, but they used some kind of twisty bendy logic to 'prove' that life couldn't arise spontaneously by opening a jar of peanut butter and saying 'look, no life! Evolution can't be true!'



ETA: found it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504

[caffeinated]

I'm so glad they made that video, though...

the words "pointed for ease of entry" make me laugh and laugh and laugh (because I'm 12).

Oh you silly, dirty little evangelists...

[fuelair]

I have always thought that when the Mike (mediocre kid actor on some tv series who aaah Kirk Cameron)character commented on the design characteristics on a video some back that he had to be a banana up the exhaust port enthusiast (if you know what I mean and I think you do!).

[AntiTelharsic]

I've always wondered something about this.

Are Kirk Cameron and that other guy really that stupid, or are they using an argument they know is bogus in order hopefully to convert people who are stupid, leading people to Jesus being viewed as more important in this case than honesty?

[Wowbagger]

Easily debunked. Just show 'em a wild banana. One that is not the product of artificial selection.

[headscratcher4]

I've always wondered something about this.

Are Kirk Cameron and that other guy really that stupid, or are they using an argument they know is bogus in order hopefully to convert people who are stupid, leading people to Jesus being viewed as more important in this case than honesty?


You have to wonder....I mean what is there response when confronted with the history of the modern banana? Or sheepdogs or terriers? Or apples or corn or tomatoes? You don't even have to have complicated biological theory to debunk this...it is simple and relatively observable and documented...so you can only really conclude that they are knowingly selling this to the credulous ...it is intentional and makes them nothing more than religious grifters.

[ravdin]

To me, the biggest logical fallacy is to frame the argument as atheists vs. creationists. Since a lot of people (such as Sullivan) are neither atheists nor creationists, it's a false dichotomy.

[zooloo]

I'm so glad they made that video, though...

the words "pointed for ease of entry" make me laugh and laugh and laugh (because I'm 12).

Oh you silly, dirty little evangelists...
I laughed too and I'm 42.

[Third Eye Open]

I didn't know who either of those people were when I first saw it, and I was certain that it was a satire. I didn't know whether to laugh harder or puke when I found out that I was wrong... so I did both. It was very uncomfortable.

[AntiTelharsic]

I didn't know who either of those people were when I first saw it, and I was certain that it was a satire.

Like they say, advocacy of intelligent design is indistinguishable from parody of advocacy of intelligent design.

[Whiplash]

Easily debunked. Just show 'em a wild banana. One that is not the product of artificial selection.

Or a pinneapple. Or a coconut. ;)

[headscratcher4]

The coconut is proof of god. God designed it so that it wouldn't leak and so that you would need a machete to chop off the top in order to make attractive bar drinks in exotic locations. God was wearing a colorful Hawaiian shirt that day.

[plumjam]

The design of the banana is proof positive that God loves short-armed lesbians too.

[krazyKemist]

Easily debunked. Just show 'em a wild banana. One that is not the product of artificial selection.

Or just a Plantin banana. Or the miniature varities. Oh wait, different sized bananas....:D

[steve s]

ETA: Actually, SkeptiWiki has a good article on it: http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Bananas:_The_Atheist's_Worst_Nightmare

Thanks for the link.

* The modern banana is the result of a well-documented chance mutation during the nineteenth century:

Those first bananas that people knew in antiquity were not sweet like the bananas we know today, but were cooking bananas or plantain bananas with a starchy taste and composition. The bright yellow bananas that we know today were discovered as a mutation from the plantain banana by a Jamaican, Jean Francois Poujot, in the year 1836. He found this hybrid mutation growing in his banana tree plantation with a sweet flavor and a yellow color—instead of green or red, and not requiring cooking like the plantain banana. The rapid establishment of this new exotic fruit was welcomed worldwide, and it was massively grown for world markets. [4]

I was unaware of this. I had assumed that they were the result of selective breeding over time. You learn something new every day.

Steve S.

[Hokulele]

And then there are those of us who simply can't stand the taste of bananas (nasty, smelly things). What does that say about design?

[gdnp]

The bright yellow bananas that we know today were discovered as a mutation from the plantain banana by a Jamaican, Jean Francois Poujot, in the year 1836.

Steve S.

Aaaah! mutant bananas are taking over the world!

:Banane01::Banane02::Banane03::Banane04::Banane05:
:Banane06::Banane07::Banane08::Banane09::Banane10:
:Banane11::Banane12::Banane13::Banane14::Banane15:
:Banane16::Banane17::Banane18::Banane19::Banane20:

[NobbyNobbs]

Or a pinneapple. Or a coconut. ;)

Don't forget lobsters!


Yum.


Of course, if there really was an intelligent designer, then the universe should work something more like this:

A large dairy animal approached Zaphod Beeblebrox's table, a large fat meaty quadruped of the bovine type with large watery eyes, small horns and what might almost have been an ingratiating smile on its lips.

"Good evening," it lowed and sat back heavily on its haunches, "I am the main Dish of the Day. May I interest you in parts of my body?" It harrumphed and gurgled a bit, wriggled its hind quarters into a more comfortable position and gazed peacefully at them.

Its gaze was met by looks of startled bewilderment from Arthur and Trillian, a resigned shrug from Ford Prefect and naked hunger from Zaphod Beeblebrox.

"Something off the shoulder perhaps?" suggested the animal, "Braised in a white wine sauce?"

"Er, your shoulder?" said Arthur in a horrified whisper.

"But naturally my shoulder, sir," mooed the animal contentedly, "nobody else's is mine to offer."

Zaphod leapt to his feet and started prodding and feeling the animal's shoulder appreciatively.

"Or the rump is very good," murmured the animal. "I've been exercising it and eating plenty of grain, so there's a lot of good meat there." It gave a mellow grunt, gurgled again and started to chew the cud. It swallowed the cud again.

"Or a casserole of me perhaps?" it added.

"You mean this animal actually wants us to eat it?" whispered Trillian to Ford.

"Me?" said Ford, with a glazed look in his eyes, "I don't mean anything."

"That's absolutely horrible," exclaimed Arthur, "the most revolting thing I've ever heard."

"What's the problem Earthman?" said Zaphod, now transferring his attention to the animal's enormous rump.

"I just don't want to eat an animal that's standing here inviting me to," said Arthur, "it's heartless."

"Better than eating an animal that doesn't want to be eaten," said Zaphod.

"That's not the point," Arthur protested. Then he thought about it for a moment. "Alright," he said, "maybe it is the point. I don't care, I'm not going to think about it now. I'll just ... er ..."

The Universe raged about him in its death throes.

"I think I'll just have a green salad," he muttered.

[SezMe]

And then there are those of us who simply can't stand the taste of bananas (nasty, smelly things). What does that say about design?
That your taste buds are a mutant variety? :)

[Magtor]

Easily debunked. Just show 'em a wild banana. One that is not the product of artificial selection.


Can we then conclude that the Banana is, in fact, the result from intelligent design?

If humans are considered intelligent that is...

[Babylon Sister]

And then there are those of us who simply can't stand the taste of bananas (nasty, smelly things). What does that say about design?

I'm very happy to hear/see someone else say that! I can't even stand to walk by the banana section in the produce area of a market. Vile things they are!

[Wowbagger]

Can we then conclude that the Banana is, in fact, the result from intelligent design?

If humans are considered intelligent that is...Well, not quite. The bananas commonly found supermarkets were not designed so much as they emerged from various selection pressures, over time: both natural and artificial. And, with less "planning" in the outcome than you might think.

Though, with direct genetic manipulation, we could argue that future bananas could be "designed", at least to a certain degree.

And, even if bananas were completely intelligently designed by humans, that would not make them the "atheist's worst nightmare" anymore, would it?

[I Ratant]

Or just a Plantin banana. Or the miniature varities. Oh wait, different sized bananas....:D
.
We've been told that size doesn't matter.
By other guys.
My gal says different.

[Hokulele]

I'm very happy to hear/see someone else say that! I can't even stand to walk by the banana section in the produce area of a market. Vile things they are!


Anti-bananites unite!

[fuelair]

And then there are those of us who simply can't stand the taste of bananas (nasty, smelly things). What does that say about design?
Possibly you got ahold of some of Kirk Cameron's bananas - that would explain.......things!!:)

[X]

<-- Proudly amusa

For the most part.

[steve s]

And then there are those of us who simply can't stand the taste of bananas (nasty, smelly things). What does that say about design?

I can't even stand to walk by the banana section in the produce area of a market. Vile things they are!

Off to the gallows with both of ya. Bananas are supremely delicious.

Steve S.

[Aitch]

Bananas are supremely delicious.


Mmmmm, bananas and custard. :)

[Diabolos]

YouTube legend TheAmazingAtheist did a great spoof of Cameron's stupid banana video (and several other xtian types along the way):

(Warning: contains profanity)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tMw5jfPgDM8

[Hokulele]

Possibly you got ahold of some of Kirk Cameron's bananas...


I would rather slide down a banister composed of razor blades into a vat of lemon juice.

[rjh01]

This was discussed before. See for example http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=68277 and http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=54991

[bellonax]

I would rather slide down a banister composed of razor blades into a vat of lemon juice.

Oh wow...*cringes*...that's a lot of hatred.

[grayman]

The bright yellow bananas that we know today were discovered as a mutation from the plantain banana by a Jamaican, Jean Francois Poujot, in the year 1836.

And who created the mutation? GAAAWWWD DID IT!






C'mon, you know that's what the bleevers will say. :Banane11:

[Aitch]

And who created the mutation? GAAAWWWD DID IT!

C'mon, you know that's what the bleevers will say. :Banane11:

Yeah, but if we can persuade the truthers that the NWO did it, the two groups can fight over it and leave the rest of us in @£$%&*ing peace! :cool:



ETA: My 144th post - how gross :)

[ponderingturtle]

The coconut is proof of god. God designed it so that it wouldn't leak and so that you would need a machete to chop off the top in order to make attractive bar drinks in exotic locations. God was wearing a colorful Hawaiian shirt that day.

No god designed it so that he could use it to kill the wicked when calling up a full thunderstorm is too much.

[JoeEllison]

I've always wondered something about this.

Are Kirk Cameron and that other guy really that stupid, or are they using an argument they know is bogus in order hopefully to convert people who are stupid, leading people to Jesus being viewed as more important in this case than honesty?

Maybe there's a reason Dawkins called his book The God DELUSION, and not The God STUPIDITY? :D

[headscratcher4]

Foul bananas are the friut friend of the pea (also known as Satan's legume).

As an aside to the taste debate...are modern bananas -- the one used in the demonstration for example -- even grown in bibilical areas? Aren't they from more tropic climates and now cultivate (not unlike tomatoes) in regions where they were not a native species? My point is not just that he's wrong on the history of the modern, supermarket banana and how it was created, it is that he also has little understanding of agriculture and how it has been globalized in just the last 500 years or so...correct me if I'm wrong but prior to Cortez, were there tomatoes in Europe? Jesus didn't eat tomatoes or bananas I'm guessing...couldn't have.

Now, that would have been a trick...not loaves and fishes for 5,000, but bananas and tomatoes for 5,000. that would have been a real miracle.

[I Ratant]

Bananas... 2000 BCE, Indus Valley.
Arabs brought it to the west in 700 AD.
Introduced to the western hemisphere in 1516.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Still not as ridiculous as the one involving canned food. I don't remember exactly, but they used some kind of twisty bendy logic to 'prove' that life couldn't arise spontaneously by opening a jar of peanut butter and saying 'look, no life! Evolution can't be true!'



ETA: found it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504

The first time I saw that video I thought it was an over-the-top parody.

I think maybe these sort of arguments aren't really supposed to convert anyone, but to keep true believers in the fold.

[krazyKemist]

Or a pinneapple. Or a coconut. ;)

This is what the pineapple was designed for (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=YssMT0qXYOw)

:D

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Still not as ridiculous as the one involving canned food. I don't remember exactly, but they used some kind of twisty bendy logic to 'prove' that life couldn't arise spontaneously by opening a jar of peanut butter and saying 'look, no life! Evolution can't be true!'



ETA: found it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504

The food industry is dependent on evolution not existing...you've got to be freaking kidding me.

[Travis]

And then there are those of us who simply can't stand the taste of bananas (nasty, smelly things). What does that say about design?

Then you never had to deal with the snickering of male classmates in junior high when trying to eat one. My own sister loved bananas so what she did was she broke the banana up into pieces and ate them individually. That kept the boys from snickering.

[tripi]

But if given a choice of eating a spoonful of banana or durian, which would you choose?

[I Ratant]

But if given a choice of eating a spoonful of banana or durian, which would you choose?
.
Got a picture of Durian?
I likes'em kinda plumpish.

[I Ratant]

This is what the pineapple was designed for (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=YssMT0qXYOw)

:D
.
If only that were possible!
For eternity squared!

[Damien Evans]

But if given a choice of eating a spoonful of banana or durian, which would you choose?

Neither, they both should perish in flames.

[Hokulele]

But if given a choice of eating a spoonful of banana or durian, which would you choose?


Definitely the durian (which I have had before). Durians just smell like an open sewer, while bananas smell like Intelligent Design.

[tripi]

.
Got a picture of Durian?
I likes'em kinda plumpish.


11099

The infamous fruit; the outside, at least. The inside is...well, once you cut one open, you die.



Neither, they both should perish in flames.

Definitely the durian (which I have had before). Durians just smell like an open sewer, while bananas smell like Intelligent Design.


I've met plenty of people who hated durian (understandably so), but never anyone who hated bananas. I thought they were universally loved, like pie and The Smurfs. :D

[gdnp]

I've met plenty of people who hated durian (understandably so), but never anyone who hated bananas. I thought they were universally loved, like pie and The Smurfs. :D

I hate Smurfs. Too close to trolls.

[Jorghnassen]

Don't forget lobsters!


Yum.


You didn't read Leviticus. Lobster is an abomination, you're not allowed to eat it, so no wonder it's not designed for human consumption!

A counter argument to that, of course, is bacon. Why would God design such a delicious (wonderful, magical) animal as pork, then forbid you to eat it?

I also like the (late) Kurt Vonnegut argument on the Daily Show: (paraphrasing) how can you not believe in intelligent design when you consider giraffes, hippos, the clap...

[gdnp]

You
A counter argument to that, of course, is bacon. Why would God design such a delicious (wonderful, magical) animal as pork, then forbid you to eat it?

I think it all goes back to the garden of Eden. God puts two people in the garden that have no knowledge of good and evil, and then for no obvious reason puts in a tree with fruit that can give them the knowledge that he doesn't want them to have if they eat it. He then creates an evil snake and puts in the garden to tempt them. When the people succumb to the temptation, which they had no insight to resist since God created them without the knowledge of good and evil, God punishes not only them but also all their descendants. Even though he knew it was going to happen in the first place, because is omniscient.

Oh, and it was all part of his plan, because everything that happens is part of his plan. Even if you eat bacon.

I hope that clarifies everything.

[I Ratant]

The banana is the "forbidden fruit" in Islam.

[aggle-rithm]

And then there are those of us who simply can't stand the taste of bananas (nasty, smelly things). What does that say about design?

It says nothing about design; it's merely the way God identifies the heretics for easy disposal.

Heretic: Are there bananas in the fruit salad? I hate bananas.
Believer: DIE!!!

[DaChew]

How the heck can anyone not believe in banana evolution?

[DaChew]

I hate Smurfs. Too close to trolls.

You're not cooking them properly.

[Elizabeth I]

ETA: My 144th post - how gross :)

You know why you should never say the number 288 in public? It's two gross.

Then you never had to deal with the snickering of male classmates in junior high when trying to eat one. My own sister loved bananas so what she did was she broke the banana up into pieces and ate them individually. That kept the boys from snickering.

...probably drove them to tears...

[pastime]

I think it all goes back to the garden of Eden. God puts two people in the garden that have no knowledge of good and evil, and then for no obvious reason puts in a tree with fruit that can give them the knowledge that he doesn't want them to have if they eat it. He then creates an evil snake and puts in the garden to tempt them. When the people succumb to the temptation, which they had no insight to resist since God created them without the knowledge of good and evil, God punishes not only them but also all their descendants. Even though he knew it was going to happen in the first place, because is omniscient.

Oh, and it was all part of his plan, because everything that happens is part of his plan. Even if you eat bacon.

I hope that clarifies everything.


So Adam and Eve are like, what, toddlers in their social and intellectual development? God tells them, "don't eat that", but doesn't tell them why and then turns his back. Can anybody predict what's the next thing that will happen? Don't be too hard on the old boy, though - he was a first time parent.
The Bible proves that God is not omniscient. He had to learn as he went along just like everyone else, and he didn't have anyone to give him advice or Prozac (so much for omnipotent). No wonder he wound up going ape**** by chapter 6.

[gdnp]

So Adam and Eve are like, what, toddlers in their social and intellectual development? God tells them, "don't eat that", but doesn't tell them why and then turns his back. Can anybody predict what's the next thing that will happen? Don't be too hard on the old boy, though - he was a first time parent.

His own fault. He should have created Dr. Spock and T. Berry Brazleton first.

[Ron_Tomkins]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/06/take-that-dawki.html

I'm sure many of you have seen this video...but it was my first time. The facile argument being made is astonishing. The complete ignorance -- intentional ignorance -- of science displayed is equally astonishing.

He strikes me as a human with just about the same IQ as a banana.

Hmmm... maybe less.

[Ron_Tomkins]

How the heck can anyone not believe in banana evolution?

:D:D:D:D:D

[a_unique_person]

I've met plenty of people who hated durian (understandably so), but never anyone who hated bananas. I thought they were universally loved, like pie and The Smurfs. :D

Apparently people with no sense of smell usually don't like them.

[XBoxWarrior]

I'm so glad they made that video, though...

the words "pointed for ease of entry" make me laugh and laugh and laugh (because I'm 12).

Oh you silly, dirty little evangelists...

I just wanna say, "I have never had sexual relations with a banana".

Sure, I have thought about it, but Jeebus said, "Don't you dare stick that
fruit in the 'exhaust port'.........it's not gawds will".

So...I just felate my bananas.