Can anyone present evidence of the HIV virus outside of theory?

[Rolfe]

Jerome still hasn't explained why he rejects the electron micrographs as evidence.

Rolfe.

[arthwollipot]

How can people be diagnosed as HIV-positive if HIV doesn't exist?

[JEROME DA GNOME]

How can people be diagnosed as HIV-positive if HIV doesn't exist?

What does that test test for?


It certainly is not HIV nor is it HIV antigens.


Here is the crux.

:gnome:

[Capsid]

What does that test test for?


It certainly is not HIV nor is it HIV antigens.


Here is the crux.

:gnome:The test does test for antigens and antibodies. Unless you are saying p24 antigen is not HIV.

[Reality Check]

What does that test test for?


It certainly is not HIV nor is it HIV antigens.


Here is the crux.

:gnome:
Yes it is HIV and it is HIV antigens.

That is the crux.

[Professor Yaffle]

http://www.artmargin.com/Doctoringcolvers/pages/page18.htm

[fraorlando]

Jerome, the possibly most comprehensive paper on the HIV-existence issue ironically comes from another prominent aids-dissident, Peter Duesberg:
Quote:
"In Conclusion

HIV has been isolated by the most rigorous method science has to offer. An infectious DNA of 9.15 kilo bases (kb) has been cloned from the cells of HIV-antibody-positive persons, that - upon transfection - induces the synthesis of an unique retrovirus. This DNA "isolates" HIV from all cellular molecules, even from viral proteins and RNA. Having cloned infectious DNA of HIV is as much isolation of HIV as one could possibly get. The retrovirus encoded by this infectious DNA reacts with the same antibodies that cross-react with Montagnier's global HIV standard, produced by immortal cell lines in many labs and companies around the world for the HIV-test. This confirms the existence of the retrovirus HIV.

The uniqueness of HIV is confirmed by the detection of HIV-specific DNA sequences in the DNA of most antibody positive people. The same DNA is not found in uninfected humans, and the probability to find such a sequence in any DNA sample is 1 in 4E9500 - which is much less likely than to encounter the same water molecule twice by swimming in the Pacific ocean every day of your life.

The existence of an unique retrovirus HIV provides a plausible explanation for the good (not perfect) correlation between the existence of HIV DNA and antibodies against it in thousands of people that have been subjected to both tests. The Papadopulos-Lanka challenge fails to explain this correlation.

Ergo: The Papadopulos-Lanka challenge is rejected. HIV exists and has been isolated. *

Peter Duesberg

Source: Continuum July./Aug. 1996"
http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/pdreplyep.htm

I am not an expert either, but the above paper, along with the literature presented in this thread is enough to convince me - if you choose to restate that there is "no evidence", i have to tell you that this is clearly not the case (see above) So, the only thing you can do now is to specify why the evidence brought forward by the Perth group, deHarven etc. is, in comparison, more conclusive to you?

Also, take these papers on the natural course of HIV infection (i.e. without treatment) into consideration:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17314525&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16053749&query_hl=29&itool=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15307570&query_hl=14&itool=pubmed_DocSum

Roughly, median survival time for these untreated HIV-patients from different countries was somewhere between 7 and 10 Years, just like it was in the west before the HAART "cocktails" became available. So much for a meaningless test, i'd argue.