Retrospect - do you miss being less skeptical?

[Safe-Keeper]

The topic of this thread will be "Retrospect - do you miss being less skeptical?" Because I, for one, certainly does.

I miss having a UFO or ghost debate or look at "evidence" photos or clips and actually feeling spooked or excited. I remember discussing the paranormal, including spooky coincidences, demons, etc. and actually feeling that there might be truth to it. There was a world out there of ghosts, UFO's, spooky coincidences, and who knew what more?

Then, gradually, I became a skeptic. I did not consider myself one until my last year of high school, when I talked to my best friend who was "alternative" (a Norwegian collective term for believers in spirits, aura readings, etc.) and was called a skeptic by the teacher when we had a chat about her beliefs and I made a few friendly jokes. Then I came across James Randi through the Million Dollar Challenge, and now I'm here. But again, my journey began far earlier.

The problem is that being skeptical is... frankly... a bit boring. And not just for me - I've found that it's also annoying to other people. I've found forum threads where the OP has encountered some "inexplicable" "ghost" and wanted others' input on what he was experiencing. Others chimed in saying they found his recount scary, or shared their own experiences. Then I come barging in with my explanations. And they get upset because they'd obviously been lying to themselves - a rational explanation was not what they wanted.

I suppose that's my story in a nutshell. The truth might set you free, they say. But knowing it can sure as heck be boring:o.

[fishbait]

The problem is that being skeptical is... frankly... a bit boring. And not just for me - No, the problem is that you want to be entertained rather than discovering reality. You're not aware enough to appreciate the Universe just as it is so you long for fairy tales. How sad.

[godless dave]

Not just no, but [rule 10] no.

[Giraffe107]

A little- for example this morning on a radio show they were talking to a musician. And he said that he likes to go to this town full of psychics and get readings and so on. There was a little 'guffaw' from one of the hosts but then of course they were very polite to him. Previously this wouldn't have really bothered me, I would have just thought "good for him". But now it just makes me quite angry, how can he believe something so stupid, how can those 'psychics' get away with it, that type of thing.

[Rocko]

Interesting question - and yes, I do, to some extent. The idea that the paranormal existed was pretty cool - as a child/teen I was interested in ghost hunting, psi testing etc etc. To think some of it would be possible would be pretty awesome.

On the flip side, it was probably my interest in these things, combined with a love of science, that led me into sceptical ways. Not that I knew that's what I was until comparatively recently - there's not really a sceptical movement in the UK in the same way there is in the US, in my experience. I always wanted proof of stuff, but I didn't have tag for that approach.

Thing is, the more I read about science, the universe etc, the more wonder and awe at that replaces the excitement I used to feel about the paranormal. For me, being sceptical hasn't removed the excitement of possibility; quite the opposite. The universe is unarguably staggering and amazing in a way that a half-belief in ghosts never was.

[Safe-Keeper]

The flip side is that it's also really interesting to figure out how UFO people, ghost believers, etc. produce fake photos. Reading "debunking threads" on this forum is a good source of entertainment, actually, especially as I am a hobby photographer and interested in photo editing. It's also fascinating to be able to ask questions here and get interesting, rational answers back.

No, the problem is that you want to be entertained rather than discovering reality. You're not aware enough to appreciate the Universe just as it is so you long for fairy tales. How sad.I never said I didn't accept reality. I said that this reality isn't as "fun" as believing in woo.

You can compare it to a child giving up Santa Claus. Sure, it might be a loss, but the kid doesn't go back to believing in him, does he;)?

[Leftus]

Not in the slightest. One can take equal enjoyment from Harry Potter without having to believe it is real. One can even take a greater joy in it knowing the craft of storytelling. In the case of UFO's, you can enjoy the photoshop skills it takes to fake such evidence without ever believing they are real. Suspension of disbelief is a good thing so long as you remember to re-engage it later.

[krazyKemist]

I can't truly say that I miss it. Just like I can't truly say that I miss believing in santa.

Those things were fun in the past, and I've just moved on. Things like psychics and ESP and UFOs just seem bland to me besides the real stuff, eg, the staggering size of the cosmos, common descent, nanotech, quantum physics, ect. I'd rather hear Stephen Hawking describing the universe than see some so-called psychic demonstrate his "powers" to gasp... tell me that I've drawn a bird on that hidden paper. Or a medium tell me that there are bird baths in heaven. Or that Joe Smith has been abducted (for nebulous probing purposes) in a UFO and has only his stopped watch as proof. Or that a ghost has really moved that rocking chair, swear to god, it was there !

I don't know, but most supposed paranormal events are very disapointingly mundane to me. They just seem like the ravings of a paranoid person, with a lot of feelings of fear and awe... when nothing really interesting has happened.

But then I've always been curious and delighted to get an explanation for things. "Mystery" holds no attraction to me except as something that I can investigate. All the fun is in the investigation, not in the lack of knowledge.

That must be why I'm a scientist.:p

[Showmeproof]

Nope, do not miss it at all. I think the universe, and eveything encompassed in it should be enough to keep people in awe. Unfortunately, it isn't, and people seek alternate realities to make up for their boring and mundane lives. Sort of like how people become interested in the lives of famous people. Its an escape from their own boring reality.

[TX50]

I don't miss it. I find the real world much more interesting.

Perhaps there's one thing; I do remember that I used to really
enjoy reading "ghost stories". Nowadays I have no interest in
such stories at all.

[fishbait]

I never said I didn't accept reality. I said that this reality isn't as "fun" as believing in woo.

That's my point. You're accepterd reality but are disappointed with it. When one considers how much of the natural world there is to explore, discover. and explain, it boggles the mind that anyone with any measure of awareness could be bored. Longing for made-up fairies at the bottom of the garden in a Universe full of natural wonders is immature and feckless.

[Rufo]

I understand what you mean, and well, yes, to some extent I miss it. But as my skepticism has simply been a part of my interest in the things it affects, I see it more as a form of nostalgia - like you miss reading that first novel by the great author you've come to love so much, or the seeing first episode of a TV series you're now an avid fan of, or basically anything which was all new to you then and you now have a deeper knowledge of. Skepticism comes with properly researching related topics, and if I would have stayed in my illusions it would have meant treating the things that interested me carelessly - and where's the fun in that?

As an example, I am still interested in parapsychological research - the difference is that I no longer have any illusions about previous successes in the area. I maintain interest in almost all supernatural phenomena I was previously interested in, but now it is mostly the natural explanations which interest me. I have extensive interest in urban legends, and to me skepticism only helps to perpetuate that interest.

Missing something doesn't necessarily mean it was better. It was different, and I miss the difference. That's all.

[-Fran-]

No!

But I don't feel bad about it either. It was a part of a, still on-going, and hopefully never-ending, process of learning and understanding.

[Ron_Tomkins]

I don't regret coming out of the Skeptic Closet at all.

If anything, life is sweeter and more peaceful.

[Dogdoctor]

(in response to the OP)I always wonder about this line of thought. Being a skeptic doesn't mean that suddenly you will understand everything. Whatever ghosts you used to see will be a mystery to be solved instead of some silly nonsense about the spirits of dead people. To me that is more interesting. I think what you are describing is becoming closed minded.

[Empress]

I can't say for sure. Sometimes, when I see other people getting creeped out over some paranormal silliness, I feel a bit of nostalgic sadness for the time when I was a kid and believed in things like an afterlife, and that people after death could contact us. Fact is, though, that if there was a way to go back to the way I was, I'd probably find it much less exciting that the real world. It only is attractive because I romanticize it as part of my childhood. In reality, such beliefs would now be a definite bore.

[Minarvia]

I don't miss it at all. For me it would be like once having been blind, then able to see, then becoming blind all over again.
Nope. No way.

I still enjoy ghost and UFO stories and enjoy my life. I just don't believe in gods and demons such. I much prefer life this way. Reality with plenty of mystery left over.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Honestly? No, I don't. In the first place, there is not much to miss as I did believe in some of the paranormal but was never heavily- or even moderatly- invested in it. I only spent money on woo services once (allthough I did read books about it and owned a deck of tarot cards that I tried to learn in all sincerity) and even then I can honestly say it wasn't my idea and I smelled a rat.

In the second, allthough woo can offer grand and amazing possibilities and real pleasures (such as the thrill of telling the future and the fun of it, as in tarot cards) as well as psychological satisfaction, it really doesn't compare to the ones the truth offers.

[arthwollipot]

Nope. I don't miss it at all.

I vastly prefer an unpleasant truth over a comforting lie.

[H3LL]

By analogy I would like to compare with PTerry's creatures from the dungeon dimensions waiting to poke an entrance into reality when they detect magic.

The magic would be the irrational belief in woo and the hideous creatures of the dungeon dimensions would be the psychics, quacks, priests and other hoaxers, con artists and charlatans waiting to feed and suck away time, money and effort.

As a gullible believer in the irrational I would be easy prey to the priests and their fellow creatures from the dungeon dimensions, frightened by the monster in the movie and disturbed by the 'ghost' in the night.

Without the lying priests and other con artists, belief and non-belief in woo woo would matter very little.

As a sceptic, the creatures from the dungeon dimensions have all been rendered totally impotent (and poorer), no ghost can haunt or scare me and movies can't keep me awake with night terrors.

I can still suspend disbelief and enjoy a great story, like one by Pterry. The story has to be better crafted than before to be a delight. Horror movies, for example, now rarely hold my interest as they did - but that's probably not a bad thing.

I can see a woo and can imagine all the hideous creatures from the dungeon dimensions that they need to deal with daily and in particular their religious figures, the veritable Bel-Shamroths of their daily predators.

Sceptics - The rare Susans of the world armed with pokers and not scared by her Grandfather.

:D

[m_huber]

I have to say that I differ from the general consensus here. While I don't want to go back to believing in God, I do at times miss the community that went with it. In the South, church is equal to community. Since leaving religion, I have had much less community to speak of. When I was still in the church, I was extremely committed to it. I had a long internal debate about whether or not I would be a preacher, and I did preach several times, and teach Sunday School, and Bible study. The reason I was able to maintain it is because I thought I was working for something really important. Now, that sense of importance is no longer present in anything that I do. I find science fascinating, and it is/is going to be my career, but learning about how the rocks of the Weltevreden Formation are arranged doesn't give me the same satisfaction as bringing someone to eternal life. Perhaps it is just a different form of satisfaction. I have tried to go to church and simply disagree, but I find it so hard to listen to the talk about God that I can't stay without getting angry. I don't know that there is a solution; at times I do wish that I hadn't ever come to the truth. Overall, however, I am glad that I know what is right. I can say that I have been much more stable since becoming an atheist. But it doesn't afford me the same opportunities as belief did.

[Dave Rogers]

I don't remember ever believing in ghosts, or UFO's, or faith-healing, or psychics, or that Dealey Plaza was surrounded by 73 assassins who shot JFK 297 times. I remember sometimes taking urban legends for true stories, and my feeling about that is mild embarrassment at how gullible I was. So really I have nothing to miss.

Dave

[blauregen]

I don't miss believing in paranormal phenomena. And singing gospels or celebrating a sabbat is enjoyable despite my "don't-care-atheism".

[Darat]

I've always been "sceptical" so I have no other state to compare it to. (Thankfully my parents were extremely tolerant of a kid always asking "why" and the thing I've grown to appreciate more and more over the years they were also quite willing to say "I don't know" if they didn't know the answer to something I asked.)

I have sometimes wondered if life would be more "pleasant" to be as I see some people being i.e. unquestioning.

[krazyKemist]

I have to say that I differ from the general consensus here. While I don't want to go back to believing in God, I do at times miss the community that went with it. In the South, church is equal to community. Since leaving religion, I have had much less community to speak of. When I was still in the church, I was extremely committed to it. I had a long internal debate about whether or not I would be a preacher, and I did preach several times, and teach Sunday School, and Bible study. The reason I was able to maintain it is because I thought I was working for something really important. Now, that sense of importance is no longer present in anything that I do. I find science fascinating, and it is/is going to be my career, but learning about how the rocks of the Weltevreden Formation are arranged doesn't give me the same satisfaction as bringing someone to eternal life. Perhaps it is just a different form of satisfaction. I have tried to go to church and simply disagree, but I find it so hard to listen to the talk about God that I can't stay without getting angry. I don't know that there is a solution; at times I do wish that I hadn't ever come to the truth. Overall, however, I am glad that I know what is right. I can say that I have been much more stable since becoming an atheist. But it doesn't afford me the same opportunities as belief did.

It sounds to me as if you have a desire to help people. I'm going through a similar phase, and that has me thinking a lot about my career. It's not making me miss the religious community, though, as I was never very involved in that.

What made me realise this need was a succession of events which included my best friend falling very sick. It was while helping her that I found out that this was missing from my life. I think everybody has a need to take care of others, and that it affords a satisfaction of its own. A religious group may give you a great opportunity to do this, but so does a group of friends, or volunteering.

[Ersby]

When I was a kid, I believed in ESP and PK because I sort of wanted these powers for myself, and I used to read up on things like Nostradamus and palmistry because I liked knowing stuff that other people didn't know about. It was as close as a thirteen year old was ever going to get to having something over adults.

Now I recognise why I believed in it, I wonder how many other people felt the same way. Certainly I notice a certain "you don't know what's really going on" attitude when people tell me that tower WTC 7 shouldn't have fallen down, or that there's scientific evidence for ESP.

So no, don't miss it. Although I would still quite like PK powers.

[Sickly Crypsis]

Hedonic treadmill. (Used slightly out of context)

I too used to enjoy conspiracy theories, UFOs, ghosts, monsters and Santa Claus, but I grew out of it and it's a shame so many people didn't grow out of it and not that I left it behind.

At the same time science always fascinated me, but it just took a while to differentiate between science and non or pseudo-science. An old text book I had in primary school blamed the elliptical orbit of earth for the seasons, and I remember even back then thinking "But wouldn't it be hot everywhere on earth? Not just in one hemisphere?"

Nostalgia is natural, but for the most part I feel I'm happier. The only time things I used to do ever lived up to what I remember was Nintendo 64. Goldeneye FTW

[Tressa]

The community that went with it. I was wiccan for twelve years and the last five or so I did monthly rituals with friends. Now it's difficult to get together with them if at all (they have spouses/children). Ritual was always a set time and almost no one missed. Of course I'm also disappointed that they can make time for ritual but can't make time to see me for pizza and a video on occasion.

[RSLancastr]

Tressa, are you coming to TAM? You'll get lots of community there. :)

[Tressa]

Tressa, are you coming to TAM? You'll get lots of community there. :)
Yes, I am going to TAM. That's once a year though (and that's taking for granted a person can afford to go every year); not quite the same thing I was refering to.

[Whiplash]

That's my point. You're accepterd reality but are disappointed with it. When one considers how much of the natural world there is to explore, discover. and explain, it boggles the mind that anyone with any measure of awareness could be bored. Longing for made-up fairies at the bottom of the garden in a Universe full of natural wonders is immature and feckless.

Jesus dude, lighten up. This reminds me of a thread not long ago here about things that creeped people out in their lives and you were so quick to jump in and say how you have never been creeped out, ever. In the same tone you use here. The smug, uber-skeptic who has never even remotely been influenced by woo, or come close to believing nonsense, and completely chock full of contempt for those who have ever have.

You must be alot of fun at parties.

In response to the OP, yes I do miss when I was young and believed in UFOs and stuff. It was fun, and I don't feel ashamed about it, regardless of how some others may think lesser of me for having been so gulible. We can't all be perfect.

[RSLancastr]

Yes, I am going to TAM. That's once a year though (and that's taking for granted a person can afford to go every year); not quite the same thing I was refering to.Are there other skeptical meetups where you are? I know they are not the same as the type of communal things you were discussing, but they do help.

[hecaterin]

When I was a kid, I believed in ESP and PK because I sort of wanted these powers for myself, and I used to read up on things like Nostradamus and palmistry because I liked knowing stuff that other people didn't know about. It was as close as a thirteen year old was ever going to get to having something over adults.Yeah, I was quite fascinated by fortune telling as a kid. I had books on astrology and palmistry and numerology... But at some point I figured out that it was all nonsense. Partly it was being interested in astronomy from an early age - enough to learn about what the stars were, and how there was no way they would have any such effect. And astronomy was enormously more exciting, so no loss there. I can still remember when I asked my parents to buy me a ouija board, and my disappointment when the damn thing simply would not move by itself like it was supposed to. I had to push it and ... oh wait ... crap! I was conned! I was 11 years old, I think.

[Quinn]

In my pre-skeptical days, the most woo-ish thing I believed in was out-of-body experiences. I believed in them because I had them occasionally, and they were (and remain to this day) the most terrifying things I've ever experienced. The first one left me a wreck for days afterward, and the subsequent ones weren't much better.

Then purely by chance, I happened to learn about the phenomena of sleep paralysis and hypnagogic hallucination... and the relief I felt upon learning that these experiences were caused by natural brain processes, and NOT malevolent supernatural entities, was immense.

So no, I can't say I really miss being an otherwise intelligent adult who feared that monsters were going to come get me in my sleep.

[Tressa]

Are there other skeptical meetups where you are? I know they are not the same as the type of communal things you were discussing, but they do help.
Since September, when I first started meeting people from the forum (for Randi's lecture in Montpelier, VT), there have been about five or six get togethers (three at my house). I had a Stop Sylvia Browne pinata at one (it was a Barney pinata, I added claws and a picture of SB taped to the snout). At a second party, we burned the head and claws in my old cauldron.

[Senex]

I never believed in god but when i was young I gave serious consideration to the possibility The Amazing Kreskin could tell you the serial number of any bill you had in your wallet. Even as a ten year old I could see through much his routine but until I turned 13 or 14 I could never figure out his ability to read serial numbers on bills held by distant audience members. My dad must have taken me to half a dozen of his shows. If I couldn't figure it out I had to consider it was true. I know some people on this site look down on Kreskin -- but I have deconstructed his routine and he has the ability to walk into a room and entertain hundreds of people with only a clip board as a prop. He needs paper and pencils but they are not gimmicked. He doesn't use any assistants. There is a certain beauty to his minimal equipment needs. i do have mixed feelings because he did trick me into believing ESP was possible, and I have an autographed book of his that contains a whole lot of woo -- but he really is amazing on some level.


The community that went with it. I was wiccan for twelve years and the last five or so I did monthly rituals with friends. Now it's difficult to get together with them if at all (they have spouses/children). Ritual was always a set time and almost no one missed. Of course I'm also disappointed that they can make time for ritual but can't make time to see me for pizza and a video on occasion.

It's a coincidence that you were a wiccan. As I was telling Robert earlier today I am the only magician in New England who can perform the Balducci levitation skyclad and rise 9 inches.

[skeptigirl]

It took me a minute to figure this thread out.

Once in a while I reminisce. I think my excessive curiosity early on led me to look into all sorts of fantastic mysterious things. But there is so much more fantastic mysterious science that I don't regret a thing.

[tiger]

Safe keeper quote-The problem is that being skeptical is... frankly... a bit boring.


I disagree totally! I find it very interesting debunking ghost video and I have alot of fun taming the psychic and meduim BS. I am sure for most skeptics theres a power to our madness, at what other phase in life do you get the opportunity to show the world reality. How many people have the power to debunk a ghostly apparition and prove it to be fake. Or bring a psychic, meduim and their false prophencies to their knees. But in truth I used to believe in ghost's but never in the psychic BS, but something brought all of us to this path. Whether it was being able to see thru the fakery and ambition of those who choose to give false revelations to those who have lost those most dear to them or that science is the only truth we all took a path to get here.

But for me my skeptic attitude might have went back to believing in ghost's when I took 12 pictures for cloud referencing in a alleged hauted park and pictures came out strange to say the least, very strange! I even took the time to send them to several professional photographers and photo labs for evaluation and all replys came back has unexplained. But I took a look at them even though all the evidence has pointed otherwise has unexplained doesn't mean they can't be explained. So I ride on has a skeptic!

[arthwollipot]

It's a coincidence that you were a wiccan. As I was telling Robert earlier today I am the only magician in New England who can perform the Balducci levitation skyclad and rise 9 inches.Evidence? :D

[Senex]

Evidence? :D

Evidence? Have you ever seen anyone else do it? :D

[FramerDave]

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

The first time I've quoted the Bible, and I'm sure the last, especially on this forum.

Quite appropriate, though. Believing in things like Santa Claus, Bigfoot and alien abductions was fun. I remember rather vividly being scared witless when I saw In Search Of...Bigfoot when I was about seven or so. I was convinced that there were bigfeet wandering around suburban Orlando ready to crash in through the window and attack me one night.

I've since grown up, and the last of those childish things I put away was alien abductions. I'm a bit embarrassed to say that it was in my twenties after having read Striber's books and the ones by the guy in Gulf Breeze.

Now I've found many other things to inspire awe and wonder, what could be called the numinous. And sadly, plenty of things to scare the heck out of me. But bored? No.

[luchog]

Now I've found many other things to inspire awe and wonder, what could be called the numinous. And sadly, plenty of things to scare the heck out of me. But bored? No.
On top of what most others here have said regarding giving up the illusions of the past; being skeptical has also eliminated a lot of the irrational fears and paranoias that I had growing up, and which many around me still have. No more conspiracy theories. No goverment-is-out-to-get-you Truther nonsense. No shadowy Freemason Illuminati Bildergerg NWO figures manipulating my life behind the scenes. No national network of Satanists, Jews, white-slavers, or paedophile rings hiding around neighborhood corners, in schools, or anywhere else, waiting to steal my children and molest my pets. No gangs of extra-terrestrials lurking with their anal probes, waiting to grab me (okay, I'm a little disappointed about that one).

I don't know how anyone can live in that constant state of fear and paranoia.

[arthwollipot]

Evidence? Have you ever seen anyone else do it? :DI've never seen anyone do it. That's why I asked.

[SeanDamnit]

I'd say I'm less ACTIVELY skeptical now than ever before because of the problems that come up with conflicts. I used to argue with others for hours over whatever the paranormal flavor of the month was, but now I'm much more apathetic. If a friend tells me that we never went to the moon or something equally ridiculous, I usually just respond with something neutral like "That's cool".

[slingblade]

I like to write, and I hope one day to write a fantasy work. But I find it a bit harder to write about magic, now that I no longer believe in it. That's pretty stupid, I've decided, so I'm working on it. You don't have to believe in a thing or think it's real to write about it.

[Senex]

Senex:
Evidence? Have you ever seen anyone else do it? :D


I've never seen anyone do it. That's why I asked.

When I asked you if you have seen anyone else do it I was using a technique us conjurers use called "dual reality." I answer you in a way that means something to you (you are a guy and didn't you see the grin face at the end of my post?) but it means something entirely different to the intended audience (they assume you did see me do it before). Now you exposed me more than my skyclad performance ever has. Happy? :mad:

[arthwollipot]

When I asked you if you have seen anyone else do it I was using a technique us conjurers use called "dual reality." I answer you in a way that means something to you (you are a guy and didn't you see the grin face at the end of my post?) but it means something entirely different to the intended audience (they assume you did see me do it before). Now you exposed me more than my skyclad performance ever has. Happy? :mad:Yes thanks. :D

[alfaniner]

Re: the thread title.

I know for a fact that I learned the word "retrospect" from a George Carlin routine. And perhaps a lot more.