Churchill and the Holocaust

[Mondial]

Winston Churchill wrote a 6 volume history of the second world war (The Gathering Storm, Their Finest Hour, The Grand Alliance, The Hinge of Fate, Closing the Ring, Triumph and Tragedy). He has everything covered except for one thing. He doesn't mention a "genocide" of Jews, "6 million victims" or "gas chambers".
www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm (http://www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm)
Churchill knew that the so called "holocaust" was largely fake atrocity propaganda and didn't want his serious war study compromised by it.
For those who are genuine skeptics the holocaust has been found wanting www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com (http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com)

[Damien Evans]

:dl:

Excellent parody.

[Ian Osborne]

Does your daddy know you're playing with his PC?

[Darat]

...snip...
Churchill knew that the so called "holocaust" was largely fake atrocity propaganda and didn't want his serious war study compromised by it.
For those who are genuine skeptics the holocaust has been found wanting

...snip...

I'd say quite an understatement to say "wanting" - but yes it was a terrible event.

[JennyJo]

Winston Churchill wrote a 6 volume history of the second world war (The Gathering Storm, Their Finest Hour, The Grand Alliance, The Hinge of Fate, Closing the Ring, Triumph and Tragedy). He has everything covered except for one thing. He doesn't mention a "genocide" of Jews, "6 million victims" or "gas chambers".
www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm (http://www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm)
Churchill knew that the so called "holocaust" was largely fake atrocity propaganda and didn't want his serious war study compromised by it.
For those who are genuine skeptics the holocaust has been found wanting www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com (http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com)

How do you know that Churchill knew this?

[aggle-rithm]

Winston Churchill wrote a 6 volume history of the second world war (The Gathering Storm, Their Finest Hour, The Grand Alliance, The Hinge of Fate, Closing the Ring, Triumph and Tragedy). He has everything covered except for one thing. He doesn't mention a "genocide" of Jews, "6 million victims" or "gas chambers".
www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm (http://www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm)
Churchill knew that the so called "holocaust" was largely fake atrocity propaganda and didn't want his serious war study compromised by it.
For those who are genuine skeptics the holocaust has been found wanting www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com (http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com)

And yet Eisenhower, who was THERE and witnessed the death camps firsthand, made the extraordinary prediction that some day, idiots would claim the Holocaust had never happened. He made sure there were as many witnesses as possible to the fruits of Nazi labors by marching German civilians through the camps and making them bury the dead.

[JennyJo]

And yet Eisenhower, who was THERE and witnessed the death camps firsthand, made the extraordinary prediction that some day, idiots would claim the Holocaust had never happened. He made sure there were as many witnesses as possible to the fruits of Nazi labors by marching German civilians through the camps and making them bury the dead.

That was very wise of him!

[fagin]

Funny thing is with all of this nonesense, the government of Germany never denies the holocaust. Quite the opposite.

[Ocelot]

Churchill knew that the so called "holocaust" was largely fake atrocity propaganda and didn't want his serious war study compromised by it.


Who told you that and why did you belive them?

Here's an alternative point of view. Churchills own well docuemted point of view rather than someone's projection based upon his chosen scope for his books.


Reading in July 1944 the first detailed account of Auschwitz, Churchill wrote:
'There is no doubt this is the most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world, and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilised men in the name of a great State and one of the leading races of Europe. It is quite clear that all concerned in this crime who may fall into our hands, including the people who only obeyed orders by carrying out the butcheries, should be put to death after their association with the murders has been proved.'



In October 1944, as further news about the killings at Auschwitz reached the West, the Polish government in exile asked for an official protest. The foreign Office was reluctant to respond, but Churchill was not. 'Surely,' he wrote, 'publicity given about this might have a chance of saving the multitudes concerned.'





On April 18 1945 General Eisenhower telephoned Churchill about the entry of his troops into a number of concentration camps in Western and Central Germany. That afternoon Churchill told the House of Commons of the 'horror' felt by the government at "the proofs of these frightful crimes now coming into view", and he added:

'The matter is of urgency, as of course, it is not possible to arrest the processes of decay in many cases. In view of this urgency, I have come to the conclusion that eight members of this House and two members of the House of Lords should form a Parliamentary Delegation and should travel out at once to the Supreme Headquarters, where General Eisenhower will make all necessary arrangements for their inspection of the scenes, whether in American or British sectors

[Doctor Evil]

Scooped by Ocelot. Was just about ready to post that quote.

[Georg]

Funny thing is with all of this nonesense, the government of Germany never denies the holocaust. Quite the opposite.

Yes, but the German government is actually controlled by "teh joos™", didn´t you know?
Missed your conspiracy theories 101?


Why is it that holocaust denying scumbags regularly visit this board and think they can convince anyone? Are they really that stupid or do they just want to stir up the feces?

[JennyJo]

do they just want to stir up the feces?

Yes, I think that's just what they want to do. Some people revel in that.

[Chaos]

Why is it that holocaust denying scumbags regularly visit this board and think they can convince anyone? Are they really that stupid or do they just want to stir up the feces?

Both, from my experience.

[JennyJo]

Yes, stupid as well ofcourse.

[Vic Vega]

Did you ever notice that Mondial doesn't come back and post again in the threads he starts? He posts anti-semitic nonsense, which is debunked in about 10 seconds, and he doesn't even have the guts to come back and try to defend his absurd statements.

At least some of the other nuts around here will put up some sort of a fight to defend their idiocy.

[ravdin]

Churchill knew that the so called "holocaust" was largely fake atrocity propaganda and didn't want his serious war study compromised by it.
For those who are genuine skeptics the holocaust has been found wanting www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com (http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com)

You, sir, are a liar.

[JennyJo]

Did you ever notice that Mondial doesn't come back and post again in the threads he starts? He posts anti-semitic nonsense, which is debunked in about 10 seconds, and he doesn't even have the guts to come back and try to defend his absurd statements.

At least some of the other nuts around here will put up some sort of a fight to defend their idiocy.


O yes, I have noticed, that's what these people do. Sometimes I think we should ignore them completely, but on the other hand, random visitors reading those posts and not knowing any better might think there is some kind of truth in it.
That's always my dilemma with people telling lies on the internet.

[Narcopuppy]

Absurd claims such as those posted by Mr. Mondial must be answered, not because they are worthy of debate as subjects, but because many ill-informed people (and everyone is ill-informed in some capacity) just might be convinced.

Sort of like Creationism. If people who know what they're talking about don't humble themselves enough to explain to the rest of us why certain ideas are not to be taken seriously or considered, such ideas will spread and become social issues that threaten the general education level of the populace and result in legitimate science and history being marginalized (or, if you're in Kansas, censored outright).

Unfortunately, even patently insane "theories" such as the subject of this thread are believable to those with an emotional stake in the matter.

[abenja1]

Mondial... I mean Idiot.... No sorry Mondial. God the words are interchangeable. Churchill had this to say in a radio broadcast in 1941:

"'None has suffered more cruelly than the Jew the unspeakable evils wrought upon the bodies and spirits of men by Hitler and his vile regime. The Jew bore the brunt of the Nazi's first onslaught upon the citadels of freedom and human dignity. He has borne and continued to bear a burden that might have seen beyond endurance. He has not allowed it to break his spirit; he has never lost the will to resist. Assuredly in the day of victory the Jew's suffering and his part in the struggle will not be forgotten.'

For those that are intellecutally capable, obviously which Mr. Mondial is not, here is the whole the article:http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/churchill_holocaust_01.shtml

[MaGZ]

A challenge to Holocaust believers:

Could anyone direct me to something Churchill had written about the Jews being murdered in the Holocaust? I would like to read it. Churchill did write a history on WWII didn’t he?

Show me his writings on the Holocaust.

[Darat]

Churchil in 1944:

'There is no doubt this is the most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world, and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilised men in the name of a great state and one of the leading races of europe. It is quite clear that all concerned in this crime who may fall into our hands, including the people who only obeyed orders by carrying out the butcheries, should be put to death after their association with the murders has been proved.'

[Georg]

Churchil in 1944:

...as already quoted by Ocelot in this thread on the 12th of June in post number 9.
Am I missing something?

[Darat]

You're not but MaGZ is so I just thought I'd add it back in.

[MaGZ]

Churchil in 1944:

Quote:
'There is no doubt this is the most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world, and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilised men in the name of a great state and one of the leading races of europe. It is quite clear that all concerned in this crime who may fall into our hands, including the people who only obeyed orders by carrying out the butcheries, should be put to death after their association with the murders has been proved.'


From the quote you provided it is not clear what Churchill is saying. I note this is in 1944 when mass exterminations were rumors. I think Churchill may be referring the bombing of London with V2 rockets and not the Holocaust.

Typical, nice try.

[Darat]

Those are the comments he made after reading the first detailed reports about Auschwitz.

[Ian Osborne]

I think MaGz is looking for real evidence, like video footage of Churchill writing something, an on-the-spot DNA test to prove it was actually Churchill and a brain scan to make sure his cognitive processes weren't being inhibited by, say, hypnosis.

[MaGZ]

Actually right now I am searching the original quote of Churchill’s and the reference to "scientific machinery". I bet this has been taken out of context and used to support the Holocaust. Churchill probably was referring to the V2 rocket attacks.

[Darat]

Opinions are not facts MaGZ - if you stopped confusing the two you may make some progress.

[Darat]

See: Winston S. Churchill, *The Second World War: Volume VI, Triumph and
Tragedy*, Appendix C, page 597

[MaGZ]

I note the editors to Churchill's book Triumph and Tragedy made the connection to the Holocaust and not Churchill himself. References have been dishonestly placed inside his remarks.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-Juh_Q1uCFsC&pg=PA597&lpg=PA597&dq=Churchill+%22scientific+machinery%22&source=web&ots=-haOUTuT_j&sig=InjTWOXzf5XW5Gr258G08nL63Ug&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

[gtc]

From the BBC: (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/churchill_holocaust_03.shtml)

In London, Churchill continued to press the War Office to agree to an all-Jewish military force to join the Allied armies, writing on July 26 [1944]: 'I like the idea of the Jews trying to get the murderers of their fellow countrymen in Central Europe, and I think it would give a great deal of satisfaction to the United States.'
In October 1944, as further news about the killings at Auschwitz reached the West, the Polish government in exile asked for an official protest. The foreign Office was reluctant to respond, but Churchill was not. 'Surely,' he wrote, 'publicity given about this might have a chance of saving the multitudes concerned.'

[gtc]

I note the editors to Churchill's book Triumph and Tragedy made the connection to the Holocaust and not Churchill himself. References have been dishonestly placed inside his remarks.

http://books.google.com/books?id=-Juh_Q1uCFsC&pg=PA597&lpg=PA597&dq=Churchill+%22scientific+machinery%22&source=web&ots=-haOUTuT_j&sig=InjTWOXzf5XW5Gr258G08nL63Ug&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

Read the next paragraph.

[Mojo]

Read the next paragraph.


Perhaps it is referring to the prison camps in which the unfortunate V2 rockets were held before being forced to go on suicide missions, probably by means of threats to their families.

[gtc]

Perhaps it is referring to the prison camps in which the unfortunate V2 rockets were held before being forced to go on suicide missions, probably by means of threats to their families.

It all makes sense now.

[TobiasTheViking]

Winston Churchill wrote a 6 volume history of the second world war (The Gathering Storm, Their Finest Hour, The Grand Alliance, The Hinge of Fate, Closing the Ring, Triumph and Tragedy). He has everything covered except for one thing. He doesn't mention a "genocide" of Jews, "6 million victims" or "gas chambers".
www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm (http://www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm)
Churchill knew that the so called "holocaust" was largely fake atrocity propaganda and didn't want his serious war study compromised by it.
For those who are genuine skeptics the holocaust has been found wanting www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com (http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com)
i gave those volumes to a danish friend of mine as a wedding present..

Danish translation, but mint condition, i don't think they've ever been read.

[fuelair]

Yes, but the German government is actually controlled by "teh joos™", didn´t you know?
Missed your conspiracy theories 101?


Why is it that holocaust denying scumbags regularly visit this board and think they can convince anyone? Are they really that stupid or do they just want to stir up the feces?I kind of figured they might be looking for snacks - stirring it up so it's well mixed for their din-din.:)

Oh, why yes, yes they are stupid!!

[fuelair]

Did you ever notice that Mondial doesn't come back and post again in the threads he starts? He posts anti-semitic nonsense, which is debunked in about 10 seconds, and he doesn't even have the guts to come back and try to defend his absurd statements.

At least some of the other nuts around here will put up some sort of a fight to defend their idiocy.
While I would, of course, never malign a seeker of truth, I have heard it mentioned in other places and fora that posts where some idea of less than adequate thought is posted and the poster never returns to clean it up tend to be considered trollish.:)

[moon1969]

Interesting things:

"Hitler offered to send German Jews to the United States, the UK, and the Soviet Union. All of these countries declined the offer. Then the Holocaust began"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1388391/posts

15 September 1938 Chamberlain meets Hitler at Berchtesgaden

The Molotov Ribbentrop pact

[Georg]

You're not but MaGZ is so I just thought I'd add it back in.

:) . Thank you.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

A challenge to Holocaust believers:

Could anyone direct me to something Churchill had written about the Jews being murdered in the Holocaust? I would like to read it. Churchill did write a history on WWII didn’t he?

Show me his writings on the Holocaust.


'... the most bestial, the most squalid and the most senseless of all their offences, namely, the mass deportation of Jews from France, with the pitiful horrors attendant upon the calculated and final scattering of families. This tragedy fills me with astonishment as well as with indignation, and it illustrates as nothing else can the utter degradation of the Nazi nature and theme, and degradation of all who lend themselves to its unnatural and perverted passions.' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/churchill_holocaust_01.shtml)

ETA: 'None has suffered more cruelly than the Jew the unspeakable evils wrought upon the bodies and spirits of men by Hitler and his vile regime. The Jew bore the brunt of the Nazi's first onslaught upon the citadels of freedom and human dignity. He has borne and continued to bear a burden that might have seen beyond endurance. He has not allowed it to break his spirit; he has never lost the will to resist. Assuredly in the day of victory the Jew's suffering and his part in the struggle will not be forgotten.'

Churchill knew that the so called "holocaust" was largely fake atrocity propaganda and didn't want his serious war study compromised by it.
For those who are genuine skeptics the holocaust has been found wanting www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com (http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com)

First, you're a despicable excuse for a human being. Sorry, it had to be said. Second; you're actually linking to that ridiculous piece of crap that Denierbud put on youtube and that sobe (http://www.youtube.com/user/sobe104839) debunked rather easily?

[MaGZ]

'... the most bestial, the most squalid and the most senseless of all their offences, namely, the mass deportation of Jews from France, with the pitiful horrors attendant upon the calculated and final scattering of families. This tragedy fills me with astonishment as well as with indignation, and it illustrates as nothing else can the utter degradation of the Nazi nature and theme, and degradation of all who lend themselves to its unnatural and perverted passions.' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/churchill_holocaust_01.shtml)

ETA: 'None has suffered more cruelly than the Jew the unspeakable evils wrought upon the bodies and spirits of men by Hitler and his vile regime. The Jew bore the brunt of the Nazi's first onslaught upon the citadels of freedom and human dignity. He has borne and continued to bear a burden that might have seen beyond endurance. He has not allowed it to break his spirit; he has never lost the will to resist. Assuredly in the day of victory the Jew's suffering and his part in the struggle will not be forgotten.'




Please date the above Churchill quotes.

[Ian Osborne]

Please date the above Churchill quotes.

If you bothered to click the link, you'd see them sourced and dated. Is that enough for you?

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Please date the above Churchill quotes.

Follow the link; if you look on the last page there is even a dated quote expressing his horror at the discovery of the concentration camps.

[MaGZ]

I read the BBC article. It seems to be mostly about Jews being moved to deportation camps. Nothing here on genocide or exterminations. In fact, I do not remember Churchill at any time using those words. Churchill seemed only outraged about how Jews were deprived of their rights. Mass murder, seems I missed that.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

I read the BBC article. It seems to be mostly about Jews being moved to deportation camps. Nothing here on genocide or exterminations. In fact, I do not remember Churchill at any time using those words. Churchill seemed only outraged about how Jews were deprived of their rights. Mass murder, seems I missed that.

I suppose then you didn't read the final quote expressing his outrage at the discovery of the concentration camps.

[MaGZ]

I suppose then you didn't read the final quote expressing his outrage at the discovery of the concentration camps.

Everyone knew there were concentration camps. That was where first the political prisoners, then the criminals, then the Jews, Roma etc. were sent during the war. Just like the way we treated Japanese, Germans and Italians in this country during the war.

Eisenhower enters the camps and finds people dying of starvation and typhus. No genocide or mass extermination here, just death as a consequence of war.

[JennyJo]

Everyone knew there were concentration camps. That was where first the political prisoners, then the criminals, then the Jews, Roma etc. were sent during the war. Just like the way we treated Japanese, Germans and Italians in this country during the war.

Eisenhower enters the camps and finds people dying of starvation and typhus. No genocide or mass extermination here, just death as a consequence of war.

Duringt the war, many people did not know what was really happening there and it took quite some time for the truth to sink in. I know this from my relatives. The dominant fear was that they were labour camps, but that you could survive, provided you were strong and worked hard. There were those who knew the truth, but often they were not believed, either because it was too horrible to fathom or because the victims themselves just could not accept that the trains led them to a certain death.
All kinds of explanations were made up, e.g. to explain why children were taken away as well. This was supposed to be because of their small and nimble fingers, which enabeled them to perform specialist tasks that grow-ups couldn't.
Of course people were absolutely terrified, but it took quite some time, sometimes even until after the war, for the real horror of gas chambers where people were gassed by the millions, to sink in.
It must be taken into account that we have heard about in school many times, saw it on tv, read about in the newspapers. But in those days it was something so horrible, performed by a nation that had generally been considered civilised and cultured, that many people, including my Jewish relatives, simply could not adjust their mind to it.

[Dave Rogers]

I read the BBC article. It seems to be mostly about Jews being moved to deportation camps. Nothing here on genocide or exterminations. In fact, I do not remember Churchill at any time using those words. Churchill seemed only outraged about how Jews were deprived of their rights. Mass murder, seems I missed that.

We all know you didn't look particularly hard. Did you even get to page 3?

"There is no doubt this is the most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world, and it has been done by scientific machinery by nominally civilised men in the name of a great State and one of the leading races of Europe. It is quite clear that all concerned in this crime who may fall into our hands, including the people who only obeyed orders by carrying out the butcheries, should be put to death after their association with the murders has been proved."

Of course, you may say, Churchill could have been claiming that the Jews were simply forced to eat non-kosher meat. How about:

"I like the idea of the Jews trying to get the murderers of their fellow countrymen in Central Europe, and I think it would give a great deal of satisfaction to the United States."

The word "murderers" is rather a tricky one to misinterpret, don't you think? And in case you had any doubts, Germany is in Central Europe.

Dave

[Chaos]

*snip*
The word "murderers" is rather a tricky one to misinterpret, don't you think? And in case you had any doubts, Germany is in Central Europe.

Dave

Aww, come on, we all know that the Nazis had occupied much of Europe at the time, including all of Central Europe except Switzerland at the time. Therefore it is abundantly clear in the minds of all anti-semitic scum around here that Churchill wasn´t referring to anything the Nazis had done at all.

Or something like that, at any rate. I always get a bad headache when I try to think like a Nazi worshipper.

[Corsair 115]

I'm waiting for MaGZ or Mondial to claim that, since the Allies never used their strategic bomber forces to do anything about the concentration camps, that must be evidence that there was no mass, systematic extermination of prisoners taking place in them...

[Pardalis]

Everyone knew there were concentration camps. That was where first the political prisoners, then the criminals, then the Jews, Roma etc. were sent during the war. Just like the way we treated Japanese, Germans and Italians in this country during the war.

Eisenhower enters the camps and finds people dying of starvation and typhus. No genocide or mass extermination here, just death as a consequence of war.

Starvation and disease? Seems to me either way the Nazis are guilty of killing these people by not providing them the basic human care.

You lose both ways.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Everyone knew there were concentration camps. That was where first the political prisoners, then the criminals, then the Jews, Roma etc. were sent during the war. Just like the way we treated Japanese, Germans and Italians in this country during the war.

Eisenhower enters the camps and finds people dying of starvation and typhus. No genocide or mass extermination here, just death as a consequence of war.

And I don't think what we did with the Japanese, Germans, and Italians were right either but we treated them much better than the Germans treated their prisoners.

And who is responsible for that? Nazi worshippers today sit back and point to how it was the allies who caused the typhus and starvation by bombing the railroads that allowed food and medicine to reach the camps. Of course; that doesn't explain why the white allied POW's were treated so much better than their black and Jewish counter-parts. Or better than the Soviet POWs. I've yet to hear the deniers explain why white allied POW's had such a low death-rate in camps compared to the Jews, Communists, and other so-called "undesireables". Could it be that the Nazis had the medicine and food to care for all of the prisoners in the best possible situation but simply deemed "non-Aryans" as expendable and gave them little-to-no food or medicine?

[Dave Rogers]

Nazi worshippers today sit back and point to how it was the allies who caused the typhus and starvation by bombing the railroads that allowed food and medicine to reach the camps.

While, at the same time, claiming that the failure of the Allies to bomb the railways leading to the camps is evidence that we knew there was nothing bad going on there. "Heads I win, tails you lose" is a standard conspiracist tactic, but in this case the Holocaust deniers also insist that the coin fell both heads and tails at the same time.

Dave

[SDC]

Why does Magz care what Churchill said? The man (Churchill, I mean) played as great a role as anyone in the destruction of Magz's dreams and desires.

Honestly, Magz.

[Mondial]

And yet Eisenhower, who was THERE and witnessed the death camps firsthand, made the extraordinary prediction that some day, idiots would claim the Holocaust had never happened. He made sure there were as many witnesses as possible to the fruits of Nazi labors by marching German civilians through the camps and making them bury the dead.

Well then why didn't Eisenhower write about the "genocide of Jews" in his book CRUSADE IN EUROPE which came out in the late 1950's?

[Mondial]

Mondial... I mean Idiot.... No sorry Mondial. God the words are interchangeable. Churchill had this to say in a radio broadcast in 1941:

"'None has suffered more cruelly than the Jew the unspeakable evils wrought upon the bodies and spirits of men by Hitler and his vile regime. The Jew bore the brunt of the Nazi's first onslaught upon the citadels of freedom and human dignity. He has borne and continued to bear a burden that might have seen beyond endurance. He has not allowed it to break his spirit; he has never lost the will to resist. Assuredly in the day of victory the Jew's suffering and his part in the struggle will not be forgotten.'

For those that are intellecutally capable, obviously which Mr. Mondial is not, here is the whole the article:http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/churchill_holocaust_01.shtml


You are the idiot. His 6 volumes were written after the war and long after that broadcast.

[autumn1971]

Mondial,
My grandfather fought in World War II, and he also never once mentioned to me the decimation of the Jews in Europe.
He also never mentioned to me the victory of the Allied Forces.
He was very old, but surely these things should have been the things he told me...
Damn, my grandfather proves that the Holocoust never happened.
He also proves that the Allies never won.
(here Mondial climaxes)

[Ian Osborne]

Well then why didn't Eisenhower write about the "genocide of Jews" in his book CRUSADE IN EUROPE which came out in the late 1950's?
Because the book is his memoirs, and he didn't personally witness the Holocaust?

[Gazpacho]

Mondial please tell us more about your admiration of the scourge of Dresden AKA Winston Churchill.

[Ian Osborne]

Mondial please tell us more about your admiration of the scourge of Dresden AKA Winston Churchill.
Give him three days - he's been suspended! :D

[Ocelot]

Well then why didn't Eisenhower write about the "genocide of Jews" in his book CRUSADE IN EUROPE which came out in the late 1950's?

Well of course he did speak about the genocide of Jews in his book.

http://webletter.net/cybrary/Facts.aft.lib.eis.html

However if you're straining to view what he said as only refering to work camps with no "final solution" or "holcaust" then you'll see the lack of lurid details in this book as confirmation. The fact that such lurid details are available elsewhere will probably not dissuade you.

[View from Here]

I've been told Hitchcock went along with the battalion that liberated one of the concentration camps, and what he filmed was so horrifying that it has never been released...

[Gazpacho]

I've been told Hitchcock went along with the battalion that liberated one of the concentration camps, and what he filmed was so horrifying that it has never been released...
I've been told the moon is made of cheese. Make sure you have your facts squared away when going in against Holocaust deniers, because their whole MO is, "You know something wrong therefore you know NOTHING."

[grunion]

Starvation and disease? Seems to me either way the Nazis are guilty of killing these people by not providing them the basic human care.

You lose both ways.

And I don't think what we did with the Japanese, Germans, and Italians were right either but we treated them much better than the Germans treated their prisoners.

And who is responsible for that? Nazi worshippers today sit back and point to how it was the allies who caused the typhus and starvation by bombing the railroads that allowed food and medicine to reach the camps. Of course; that doesn't explain why the white allied POW's were treated so much better than their black and Jewish counter-parts. Or better than the Soviet POWs. I've yet to hear the deniers explain why white allied POW's had such a low death-rate in camps compared to the Jews, Communists, and other so-called "undesireables". Could it be that the Nazis had the medicine and food to care for all of the prisoners in the best possible situation but simply deemed "non-Aryans" as expendable and gave them little-to-no food or medicine?
This is NOT a matter of "mistreatment" and "neglect" of the "Jewish prisoners of war." It is exceedingly well documented, and eyewitnesses still living can assert, that the Nazis are guilty of mass murder and genocide through a bureaucratic, technological system of relocation, forced labor, extermination, and abominations unleashed on the civilian population of the areas they occupied. I won't argue that they were unique in their barbarity as there have unfortunately been a great number of mass atrocities in human history. But to equate their treatment of their victims with that of neglected POWs is yielding significant ground to the deniers.

[Ian Osborne]

I've been told the moon is made of cheese. Make sure you have your facts squared away when going in against Holocaust deniers, because their whole MO is, "You know something wrong therefore you know NOTHING."

To be fair, he didn't offer that as a fact, only as a rumour which he hoped someone else here would confirm or deny. And it seems the rumour is correct - a Google search brings up this (http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-6076323184217355958) as the first hit. It's the actual film on Google Video - you should watch it, Mondial. After all, you've nothing else to do while you're suspended...

[Gazpacho]

Well, touche. The way it was described it had the ring of an urban legend.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

This is NOT a matter of "mistreatment" and "neglect" of the "Jewish prisoners of war." It is exceedingly well documented, and eyewitnesses still living can assert, that the Nazis are guilty of mass murder and genocide through a bureaucratic, technological system of relocation, forced labor, extermination, and abominations unleashed on the civilian population of the areas they occupied. I won't argue that they were unique in their barbarity as there have unfortunately been a great number of mass atrocities in human history. But to equate their treatment of their victims with that of neglected POWs is yielding significant ground to the deniers.

I know and whole-heartedly agree. I'm just curious about why you've quoted me.

[Sunni Man]

Winston Churchill wrote a 6 volume history of the second world war (The Gathering Storm, Their Finest Hour, The Grand Alliance, The Hinge of Fate, Closing the Ring, Triumph and Tragedy). He has everything covered except for one thing. He doesn't mention a "genocide" of Jews, "6 million victims" or "gas chambers".
www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm (http://www.rense.com/general74/short2.htm)
Churchill knew that the so called "holocaust" was largely fake atrocity propaganda and didn't want his serious war study compromised by it.
For those who are genuine skeptics the holocaust has been found wanting www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com (http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com)Great post!

I will be glad when the Holocaust Hoax is finally shown to be the massive fraud that it is. It only exist as a money making cash cow for the Zionists.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Great post!

I will be glad when the Holocaust Hoax is finally shown to be the massive fraud that it is. It only exist as a money making cash cow for the Zionists.

Of course the only people who decide to show support for Mondial is the anti-Semite and the Muslim...

[SDC]

If it's such a great post why don't you nominate it?

Time for my regular attempt to start a conspiracy theory: the reason the Germans lost WW2 was because they wasted their resources producing tons of false documentation about the false Holocaust -- all those German bureaucrats, safe from the war, generating tons of paper... The cunning devils.

[Travis]

Time for my regular attempt to start a conspiracy theory: the reason the Germans lost WW2 was because they wasted their resources producing tons of false documentation about the false Holocaust -- all those German bureaucrats, safe from the war, generating tons of paper... The cunning devils.

Aha

Bureaucrat 1: I still don't get why we have to do all this!

Bureaucrat 2: Because Speer ordered it.

Bureaucrat 1: But were faking train records of millions of Jews, that have already been relocated to our secret bases in the Hollow Earth, being deported to isolated places in Poland. Where the heck is Chelmno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelmno_extermination_camp) anyways?

Bureaucrat 2: Should we lose the war, despite the super weapons the Fuhrer has promised, we want lots of records of an extermination of Jews. Hmmm we should get some patents made for industrial sized crematoria that can burn thousands of bodies a day!

Bureaucrat 1: But why would we want to do that?

Bureaucrat 2: Because of a plan by Goebbels, if we can't win then we'll leave evidence to make us the most evil regime in history! Hmmmmm marching the last starving people in the labor camps in circles with no food on pointless Death Marches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_marches_(Holocaust)) might work after all.

Bureaucrat 1: That's crazy! Why would we want that?

Bureaucrat 2: Would you shut up and help me figure out a way to get a couple hundred thousand bodies so we can throw them into some ravine called Babi Yar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar).

[SDC]

Exactly!

[ddt]

Aha

Bureaucrat 1: I still don't get why we have to do all this!

Bureaucrat 2: Because Speer ordered it.

[...]

Nominated!

[Sunni Man]

If it's such a great post why don't you nominate it?

Time for my regular attempt to start a conspiracy theory: the reason the Germans lost WW2 was because they wasted their resources producing tons of false documentation about the false Holocaust -- all those German bureaucrats, safe from the war, generating tons of paper... The cunning devils.I am not anti semitic. But the Zionist Jews did fake huge amounts of records in order to gain sympathy from the world and gather support for their own state of Israel.

[JennyJo]

I am not anti semitic. But the Zionist Jews did fake huge amounts of records in order to gain sympathy from the world and gather support for their own state of Israel.

It this were true, maybe my father would have found back more of his lost relatives.
Therefore: evidence please, so we can start searching at once.

[Sunni Man]

Go ask your filthy Zionist friends. They should know the answer to your question.

[Doctor Evil]

I am not anti semitic. But the Zionist Jews did fake huge amounts of records in order to gain sympathy from the world and gather support for their own state of Israel.

http://www.flashmyspacecomments.com/comments/cool/funny/oh_really_foo.gif

[drkitten]

I am not anti semitic.


Yes, you are. You're also a very bad liar.

[Sunni Man]

Yes, you are. You're also a very bad liar.

You are wrong.

I have nothing against the Jews and think they are a wonderful people.

But the Zionists are a sick and evil bunch of fascists ruling a criminal state.

[SDC]

I am not anti semitic. But the Zionist Jews did fake huge amounts of records in order to gain sympathy from the world and gather support for their own state of Israel.

!@#$%^&*()_ I object! I object!! I made up that fantasy conspiracy theory!

Is there somewhere around Jref whither I may drag this copycat conspiracist to be chastised?

It is just too much. I spend entire minutes thinking up my own fantasy conspiracy... I think I mention it 2 or 3 times, and it finally gets a little recognition (thank you, Travis) and what happens? Some, some, fellow springs up and claims it for his own!!

Jeez oh pete. Not only is there no balm in Gilead, but there ain't no justice.

[MaGZ]

You are wrong.

I have nothing against the Jews and think they are a wonderful people.

But the Zionists are a sick and evil bunch of fascists ruling a criminal state.

I have never understood this: Jews are good but Zionists are evil.

Is this old PLO talking points?

You use the word fascist to describe the Zionists, so this must be a throwback to final days of Stalinism when Stalin suspected Jews to have switched from the support of International Socialism to the support of Israel.

[Magyar]

You are wrong.

I have nothing against the Jews and think they are a wonderful people.

But the Zionists are a sick and evil bunch of fascists ruling a criminal state.

YEA, I know JUST what you mean. I love Muslims too, they are wonderful people.

It's just those Allah worshipping aarrab rag heads, who think women MUST cover their heads to be virtuous, who don't like dogs and stick their asses in the air 5 times a day so they can practice their beastialic religious practices of having camels in heat easily violate them that I can stand!

.

[Sunni Man]

I have never understood this: Jews are good but Zionists are evil.
Not all Jews are Zionists. My boss is a Jew. He is all about making money. I haven't heard him mention Israel even once.

A Zionist Jew puts Israel above anything and anyone. They don't care who they hurt, kill, or steal from. As long as it benefits Israel it is OK.

American Zionists are basically traitors to our country. They put Israels intrests above America's interests.

[Pardalis]

I know and whole-heartedly agree. I'm just curious about why you've quoted me.

My thoughts as well. I didn't equate the concentration camps to the POW camps, MaGNAZI did.

I merely told him that even in his twisted view, the Nazis are guilty of genocide. I thought that was clear.

[Sunni Man]

YEA, I know JUST what you mean. I love Muslims too, they are wonderful people.

Thank you for your support of the Ummah. :)

[SDC]

Hungarian (if I may so translate), are you inclined to sarcasm in your postings?

ps (general comment) I think it is just darling how Magz and Sunni man have found one another. I always get kind of weepy when something so beshert* actually happens.

(*beshert: fated, destined, often used in connection with marriages, I think it's a kind of Yiddishized derivation from Hebrew. Example: "It's beshert. No one else could stand the two of them.")

[JennyJo]

Go ask your filthy Zionist friends. They should know the answer to your question.

We don't have filthy zionist friends. In fact, we don't even have zionist friends.

You are definitely an anti-semite. And one of the worst kinds at that.
You just want to rant against the Jews but you are too much of a coward to be straightforward about it, so you use zionism as a excuse.

[Sunni Man]

You are definitely an anti-semite. And one of the worst kinds at that.
You just want to rant against the Jews but you are too much of a coward to be straightforward about it, so you use zionism as a excuse.Typical Zionist Jew response. Accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you as an anti-semite.

I am not anti-semitic. The Jews are a very clever and resourceful people.

And they are to be admired for their wanting to achieve higher education.

Especially in law, finance, and banking.

[Pardalis]

Typical Zionist Jew response.

Caught you there. How do you know Jenny is Jewish?

[Sunni Man]

It this were true, maybe my father would have found back more of his lost relatives.
This is what she said in post #75 refering to her fathers lost Jewish relatives.

[Pardalis]

This is what she said in post #75 refering to her fathers lost Jewish relatives.

How does that make her Jewish? My parents are Catholics but not I.

[Sunni Man]

Jewish is more than a religion. It is a people.

[SDC]

Maybe, but you don't have to be Jewish to love Levy's.

[Pardalis]

Jewish is more than a religion. It is a people.

You see, she just told you she doesn't have any Zionist friends, and yet you accused her of being a Zionist Jew. This doesn't make sense.

It only makes sense if you equate being Jewish with being a Zionist.

This blatantly shows that you don't discriminate between the two words, and therefore, you just made her point.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Typical Zionist Jew response. Accuse anyone who doesn't agree with you as an anti-semite.

Ok then.

A Zionist Jew puts Israel above anything and anyone. They don't care who they hurt, kill, or steal from. As long as it benefits Israel it is OK.

So a better question is what is the differance between a Zionist Jews and a Zionist Christian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism)? Other than the obvious religious differances. Or for that matter, why can't an Atheist be a zionist? Why is a zionist necessarily Jewish?

I am not anti-semitic. The Jews are a very clever and resourceful people.

And they are to be admired for their wanting to achieve higher education.

Especially in law, finance, and banking.

Stereo-typing is stereo-typing regardless of the context. It seems that only the Ashkenazim from the UK and the US fair quite so well in those regards and not so much our Sephardic and Mizrahim brothers don't fare quite so well in those fields; so to suggest that the achievement in higher education isn't universal amongst Jews the same as invading Poland isn't universal amongst Germans or anti-Semitism is universal amongst Muslims.

I have never understood this: Jews are good but Zionists are evil.

No I suppose you wouldn't; much easier to just shove the term evil on all Jews and be done with it right?

American Zionists are basically traitors to our country. They put Israels intrests above America's interests.

So if Muslims regained control of Israel as the Quaran says and the Muslim Zionists supported that Israel you would be a traitor to America as well?

[Sunni Man]

So if Muslims regained control of Israel as the Quaran says and the Muslim Zionists supported that Israel you would be a traitor to America as well?Do you have any idea what you are asking? :confused:

Muslim Zionists :confused:

[JennyJo]

You see, she just told you she doesn't have any Zionist friends, and yet you accused her of being a Zionist Jew. This doesn't make sense.

It only makes sense if you equate being Jewish with being a Zionist.

This blatantly shows that you don't discriminate between the two words, and therefore, you just made her point.

Quite.
:D

My parents are Catholics but not I.
I am not Jewish either. Only my father is and according to Jewish law, you are only Jewish if your mother is.

[JennyJo]

Jewish is more than a religion. It is a people.

What people would that be then? Semites, same as the Arabs?
:)

[Sunni Man]

What people would that be then? Semites, same as the Arabs?
:)Yes arabs are semites. So it's impossible for an arab to be anti-semitic :)

[Sunni Man]

I am not Jewish either. Only my father is and according to Jewish law, you are only Jewish if your mother is.That is true by Jewish law.

So your father never took you to synagogue or temple?

He is an assimulated Jew then?

[JennyJo]

So it's impossible for an arab to be anti-semitic :)

Why then do I feel unhappy and concerned when you tell me I am a zionist Jew with filthy zionist friends?

[Darat]

Thread has been derailed beyond any reasonable chance of saving it. Thread closed.