Stone of Destiny a fake?

[Big Les]

OK, this is not the first time I've heard this claim since moving to Scotland. Now the First Minister is making it too;

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/Salmond-39Stone-of-Destiny-is.4186919.jp

Just how likely is this?

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Aren't most religious artifacts fake? Or do you mean a fake of a fake?

LLH

[madurobob]

I have no idea.... but I'd be willing to bet the original was also a "fake" (that is to say, did not originate in the Holy land and was not used by Jacob as a pillow, etc...). So, can it really matter?

[Big Les]

Insofar as history matters, yes. Obviously it's a "fake" in religious terms. But the issue of provenance is an important one I think. Salmond's claim seems fairly bold given the paucity of evidence.

[bobrayner]

Aren't most religious artifacts fake? Or do you mean a fake of a fake?

LLH

Didn't Calvin say there were enough fragments of the True Cross to build a ship? :)

[Beady]

I remember Luther said something like, Christ had 12 disciples and 14 of them were buried in Germany

[Soapy Sam]

So the stone is a replica of a fake, or a fake replica of a replica?

Buggered if I care. Like most Scots, I wouldn't recognise it if I saw it.

[Scazon]

The Stone is as obviously genuine as kilts, sporrans and dirks, Burns Night, sword dancing and Harry Lauder.

[Big Les]

So the stone is a replica of a fake, or a fake replica of a replica?

Buggered if I care. Like most Scots, I wouldn't recognise it if I saw it.

A detail of history, granted, but this is the History forum Sam. Some of us DO care about it. For me, it's a question of the facts, for Nationalist or Unionist politicians, it's a minor political football.

Beyond that though, you're right - it shouldn't exercise anyone too greatly. I'd just like to know the evidence either way.

[Maldon]

OK, this is not the first time I've heard this claim since moving to Scotland. Now the First Minister is making it too;

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/latestnews/Salmond-39Stone-of-Destiny-is.4186919.jp

Just how likely is this?

Not very likely IMO.
But completely impossible? No.

Personally I think it's another piece of folklore :D

[Nogbad]

The stone in Edinburgh Castle is, I think, the one that was given to Edward I and consequently has seen a lot of royal bums over the years.

Did the Abbot give Edward the real stone? The one currently on show does not match eye witness descriptions of the one used up until a few years before Edward made his raid. The current stone is Scottish sandstone and looks like a man-hole cover with lifting rings to move it. The original stone was brought to Scotland from Ireland and it turn was reputed to have been brought to Ireland from Egypt in antiquity. It is also supposed to have strange writing on it. There are no end of old stones in Egypt with strange writing on them. That one might have made it its way to Ireland is not an unreasonable or a fantastic proposition (notwithstanding later Christianised stories about pillows and whatnot).

So, in summary, I am inclined to believe that the original stone was not handed over but that the stone that was handed over is now in Edinburgh and has a fair old history behind it regardless. What became of the original is anyone's guess from being buried near the Abbey and forgotten in the wars and plagues of the 14th century to being hidden in Rosslyn (just teasing :p ) If a stone were found that matched the earlier descriptions then one might be tempted to relegate the current one to a supporting role and place the original under the spotlight.

[Soapy Sam]

The three major sandstones in Scotland are the Old Red, the New Red and the (various) Carboniferous sandstones. There are others, but if I was to take a wild assed guess I'd plump for Old Red, given the Perthshire connection.

Problem is that all three, or rocks very similar, also occur in numerous other countries - and even other continents. (Scotland, like many of its people, is a land o' pairts, having done a lot of stravaigin ower the Earth in it's time.)

Has anyone ever made a serious attempt to identify a likely source in Scotland?

Les- I agree this is a history thread, so the lump of rock has a degree of historical interest, but I'd suggest that any value the Scots ever put on this relic is a long dead issue.

Fragments of the Wembley goalposts, on the other hand, are still worshipped in shrines around the country.