"Wicked"

[Piscivore]

Just finished it.

Ugh.

As if it wasn't bad enough that Gregory Maguire decided he needed to cut the heart out of a classic villian- I'm wondering if George Lucas read this right before he wrote "Episode III"- he's got to layer on a whole metric crapload of "symbolism" until the whole thing reeks of an Alan Alda directed episode of M*A*S*H*.

And just in case you were to stupid to notice how brilliant old Greg is, there's a handy "discussion guide" in the back to point out all the symbolism for you. So you don't miss it. 'Cause he's deep, and s[rule 10]. And you should know that about him.

[quixotecoyote]

I liked it. The version I had didn't have the discussion guide (or at least I didn't notice it).

I disagree with "cut the heart out of a classic villian." The original witch didn't have any heart, or any substance for that matter. She was just a prop the heros had to deal with, flinging random unconnected evil at them until they killed her in a random unforseeable manner. The Futurama parody summed up my feelings about the climax of that story.

Wicked was a bit pretentious in places, but it reminded me of a more serious "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead"

[Piscivore]

The witch, for me, was the only thing that saved that trainwreck of a movie. The only one that wasn't a weak-willed syrup-slathered ninnypants. Even as a small child, forced to watch it every Thanksgiving at my gandmother's house, I wondered about the dynamic between the Wizard and the Witch.

And what does Maguire offer? Psychobabble angst because the wife of her lover won't forgive her for the guy getting killed for being involved with her, and "OMFG the guy I hate is my real father".

Don't get me wrong, most of the first two thirds is more or less pretty good. Even if it did feel a bit "Harry Potter" at times, and seemed to force the plot at times off the track it was following to make it fit the events of the previous incarnations.

[madurobob]

I disagree with "cut the heart out of a classic villian." The original witch didn't have any heart, or any substance for that matter. She was just a prop the heros had to deal with, flinging random unconnected evil at them until they killed her in a random unforseeable manner. The Futurama parody summed up my feelings about the climax of that story.

You must be referring to the movie - it bore little resemblance to the book in the interaction between the heroes and the witch.

At any rate, I'm planning to give "Wicked" a shot, having read all the Oz books as a child. But, the witch psychobabble issue may put me off... I hope not.

[Alice Shortcake]

I gave up on the book after about twenty pages. Awful stuff.

[Loss Leader]

Loved the musical, haven't read the book.

Frankly, I prefer all my entertainment be in the form of musical theater.

[paximperium]

I actually prefer the musical. Yes, it is insipid and a rather bubble gum musical(unlike some of Sondheim's works) but I found it fun and amusing.

The book was mediocre and if it wasn't for the interesting premise, it wasn't that good a book. The follow up was plain terrible.

[quixotecoyote]

You must be referring to the movie - it bore little resemblance to the book in the interaction between the heroes and the witch.

At any rate, I'm planning to give "Wicked" a shot, having read all the Oz books as a child. But, the witch psychobabble issue may put me off... I hope not.

True, I read all the Oz books, but I can't remember the Wizard of Oz. Ask me about Jin Jur, the Gnome King, the return of Ozma, or the crazy-ass sands and I'm good. But I can't remember the most famous one...

[Piscivore]

I actually prefer the musical. Yes, it is insipid and a rather bubble gum musical(unlike some of Sondheim's works) but I found it fun and amusing.
I don't mind insipid and bubblegum sometimes as long as the work doesn't take itself too seriously.

True, I read all the Oz books, but I can't remember the Wizard of Oz. Ask me about Jin Jur, the Gnome King, the return of Ozma, or the crazy-ass sands and I'm good. But I can't remember the most famous one...

The movie kept me away from the books. Maybe I'll give them a shot sometime. "Wicked" seemed to draw more from the books, from what I could tell.

I've seen a few basic reactions to Judy Garland's Dorothy- based on my observations it seems some people want to save her, some want to be her, and a select few just want to slap the wide-eyed "oh, gosh" out of her.

[MetalSeagull]

I gave up on the book after about twenty pages. Awful stuff.

You're not the only one. I got to page fifty and realized that I didn't care about any of the characters in the slightest.

[Tricky]

I actually prefer the musical. Yes, it is insipid and a rather bubble gum musical(unlike some of Sondheim's works) but I found it fun and amusing.

The book was mediocre and if it wasn't for the interesting premise, it wasn't that good a book. The follow up was plain terrible.
I haven't read the book Wicked. I totally love the musical. Great songs, great stories and backstories on a movie that many of us grew up with.

I did read all the Oz books as a kid, but they were so unmemorable, I can barely recall anything about them. That movie, though, was a major part of my childhood. Wicked is about the movie, not the books. It should be a required companion to the the movie.

You can't help caring about the icons you grew up with. Don't deny it. Expand it. Now excuse me while I go defy gravity.

[madurobob]

True, I read all the Oz books, but I can't remember the Wizard of Oz. Ask me about Jin Jur, the Gnome King, the return of Ozma, or the crazy-ass sands and I'm good. But I can't remember the most famous one...
:) I wondered about that whole Ozma thing... living as a boy until 14 or so, then suddenly some magic spell is lifted and the boy turns into the beautiful princess ruler of Oz. I guess if I had any gender identification issues I might have found some heavy symbolism there.

The "most famous one" had some good violence - the woodman decapitating an entire pack of wolves, the scarecrow killing a flock of crows one by one by catching them and twisting their heads off... good stuff.

[jj]

What did you all think of "Tin Man" on the SF channel last winter?

[madurobob]

What did you all think of "Tin Man" on the SF channel last winter?

I enjoyed it and thought it was an interesting take on the story. The dark, moody "Dorothy" (Zoey whatshername) was good, but still had a bit too much goody-two-shoes-little-girl-from-the-prairie going on compared to my expectations.

I especially liked the flying monkeys and the tatoos on the witch. Nice twist. FWIW, in the book, Dorothy also controlled the flying monkeys - she used a magic charm to command them to carry her and the others to the Emerald City. They were not evil critters, just bound to a magic spell and thus to the whims of the owner of the charm.

[Piscivore]

What did you all think of "Tin Man" on the SF channel last winter?

Interesting. The ending was a little cheesy, but overall enjoyable.

[Tiktaalik]

I read "Mirror, Mirror" and thought it was pretty good, so I picked up "Wicked", which had been recommended to me.

Hated it. Interesting premise, and that's as far as it goes. I pretty much skimmed the last third, couldn't suffer through it.

"Mirror, Mirror" is much better.