Armageddon conspiracy?

[JonathanClement]

Okay, I have heard some people say that Islam and Christianity are both actively attempted to destroy the world in order to fulfill their prophecies. People have made comments about Bush with his "finger on the button". I've seen videos of Muslims saying how much they love death and seeing so many people being willing to die disturbs me because obviously, they're selfish enough not to take anybody else' feelings into consideration. All I want is to enjoy this wonderful planet and live life. I don't even care so much about dying, I just don't want to die in a nuclear explosion. Or anybody else, for that matter. I would give my life if I knew it meant stopping the world from being destroyed. However, It's been scaring me so much, that I've been living in the delusion that if such an event did happen, I would be comforted eternally by a beautiful women as a reward for appreciating life. This fear will eventually subside like it always does, but since I've combated the conspiracy theories, there has been nothing to cancel out the fear of Armageddon or jihad or whatever they're planning. And then, you can add the fear of seeing the fanaticism of Jesus camp. And after seeing that footage from Terminator 2 of people getting nuked, that images were burned into my mind and I don't ever want to see that again, much less have it happen to me, or anyone else.

So, I would like to start a discussion on this, please. I don't know if this would be considered a suitable topic for the conspiracy theory forum, or if it should go in social issues.

Am I being paranoid and irrational, or is this really something to be worried about?

[theprestige]

Am I being paranoid and irrational, or is this really something to be worried about?
It depends on what kind of evidence you have to justify those worries.

If your only evidence is your opening paragraph (a scene from a movie and some vague hearsay suppositions about various religious groups and political figures), you're probably being paranoid and irrational.

To investigate the reliability of your claims, it might help to start with just one claim, and see if you can find any good evidence. For example, let's take the first sentence of your OP:

Okay, I have heard some people say that Islam and Christianity are both actively attempted to destroy the world in order to fulfill their prophecies.

Consider the following questions, and see what you think about this sentence once you've found the answers:

Who, exactly, have you heard say this?

By what means, exactly, would either of these groups "actively attempted [sic]" to destroy the world, and is there any evidence that these means have been used?

What, exactly, are the prophecies that would be supported by actively attempting to destroy the world?

Once you've found good, clear answers to these questions, and good, clear, evidence to support these answers, you could move on to the next sentence of your OP, and ask some more questions and look for some more evidence.

[Nick227]

Consider the following questions, and see what you think about this sentence once you've found the answers:

Who, exactly, have you heard say this?

By what means, exactly, would either of these groups "actively attempted [sic]" to destroy the world, and is there any evidence that these means have been used?

What, exactly, are the prophecies that would be supported by actively attempting to destroy the world?

Once you've found good, clear answers to these questions, and good, clear, evidence to support these answers, you could move on to the next sentence of your OP, and ask some more questions and look for some more evidence.

It strikes me that if the NWO existed and were in control then destroying the world should be a relatively simplistic task. Well, killing all the humans or a good number of them anyway. I don't know about actually getting rid of the whole lump of rock called the earth.

Nick

[bonavada]

I think Peter Cook and co, expertly debunked Armageddon some 30 years ago.

Sinners Repent Now.......



-hJQ18S6aag


BV

[JonathanClement]

It strikes me that if the NWO existed and were in control then destroying the world should be a relatively simplistic task. Well, killing all the humans or a good number of them anyway. I don't know about actually getting rid of the whole lump of rock called the earth.

Nick

Well, it's not the new world order, just people fighting "All the find out who has the best God".

As for evidence, I actually have seen a website dedicated to rebuilding the temple. In order to do this, they have to destroy the dome of the rock. I also heard Isreal once attempted to do this and it went up to frighteningly high positions...

[theprestige]

As for evidence, I actually have seen a website dedicated to rebuilding the temple. In order to do this, they have to destroy the dome of the rock. I also heard Isreal once attempted to do this and it went up to frighteningly high positions...
What website? Do they want to rebuild the temple specifically to bring about the End Times?

And destroying the Dome of the Rock is substantially different from "destroying the world". Why would the first be evidence for the second?

What is your source for Israel once attempting to do this? What is a "frighteningly high position"? What makes it "frightening"? And what was the nature of the attempt? Did they just propose it? Did they actually attempt it? By what means? What evidence does your source have of this attempt?

[DavidS]

I don't know about actually getting rid of the whole lump of rock called the earth.
Here (http://qntm.org/?destroy)'s some info to help you get started.

ETA:
This is not a guide for wusses whose aim is merely to wipe out humanity.

[Nick227]

Well, it's not the new world order, just people fighting "All the find out who has the best God".

I'm personally a bit skeptical about people really fighting for God. That might be what they say or think they're fighting for, but that isn't necessarily what's really motivating their behaviour. Mostly I think more simplistic needs aren't being met.

There was a good article (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=inside-the-terrorist-mind) on the terrorist mindset a few months back in SciAm. It's not identical to the fundamentalist mindset but I figure it's pretty similar. One of the positive aspects (and I don't see many) to religious wars and religious terrorism is that more people are now studying these things.

Nick

[GreNME]

I'm personally a bit skeptical about people really fighting for God. That might be what they say or think they're fighting for, but that isn't necessarily what's really motivating their behaviour. Mostly I think more simplistic needs aren't being met.

There was a good article (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=inside-the-terrorist-mind) on the terrorist mindset a few months back in SciAm. It's not identical to the fundamentalist mindset but I figure it's pretty similar. One of the positive aspects (and I don't see many) to religious wars and religious terrorism is that more people are now studying these things.

Nick

That's a good link, Nick. Thanks for that.

I am equally skeptical about someone supposedly fighting for God. However, I'm less skeptical about those fighting for religious dominance. Religions are a group that many people belong to regardless of their gods or messiahs or prophets, and there are people who are willing to go to great lengths to fight and kill for the groups to which they belong.

[Jontg]

Actually, it was something to be worried about until fairly recently. During the darkest years of this administration, when Bush was trying to masquerade as a neocon, there were Christian Zionists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism) operating openly in just about every level of government. For those of you who haven't done any research into the nuttiest levels of Fundamentalism (and are too lazy to even read Wikipedia), the Christian Zionists are essentially a real-life doomsday cult; they want to turn the Temple Mount over to the Jews in the belief that this will bring about the end of the world. As utterly ridiculous as the idea is, the mere fact that they're trying is enough to scare the **** out of me...

[GreNME]

Instead of using a generalized political pundit term from Wikipedia, can you specify a bit? Which people are you talking about that had you worried? Which stances are you saying went along with the Christian Zionist agenda? How could their actions be considered a Christian Zionist agenda in a manner that could be differentiated from religious right nationalism, typical GOP social conservatism, or the hypocritical "spread democracy" interventionism that US political parties have exhibited over the past few decades?

I'm not saying you're totally wrong, I'm saying that your generalization can swing a bunch of directions in that regard.

[Jontg]

Well, that does seem the most likely explanation (aside from some sort of "gentile guilt") for America's consistently pro-Israel stance--otherwise, supporting a belligerent Jewish nation smack dab in the middle of turban central hardly seems like the rational choice for a nation as dependent on the goodwill of lunatic Islamic fundamentalists as we are. Now, ever since the Democrats regained control of Congress, there hasn't been as much open discussion of the Temple, but the nutcases are still out there--just go check out the wonderful folks at RaptureReady.
P.S. Yes, I know Sikhs are technically more likely to wear turbans--I've just wanted to use that phrase for the past week.

[GreNME]

Um, methinks you aren't quite up with the history of Jewish people moving into Palestine. Regardless, some of what you cover belongs in a politics thread. However, I can let you know that the characterization of Israel as just "belligerent" is incorrect and ignoring nearly 100 years of history at this point.

I'm not making defenses of the actions of the Israeli government, especially not their leaders of late-- I consider Sharon a monster, though I equally consider Arafat a monster. Those two men alone have done a lot to shape the environment in Israel as we see it today, despite the best efforts of many on the Palestinian and Israeli sides of things, but it's their history and the general history of Israel as a nation constantly under siege that gives the picture we look at today.

Back to the subject, though, I know of some of the groups you refer to, but while they may have had lobbyists or made donations to Congress and the White House, that's still not people in the administration itself. All I'm aiming for is the distinction between loudmouthed people screaming outrageous stuff and politicians (I know, the lines can be blurry sometimes).

[Nick227]

That's a good link, Nick. Thanks for that.

I am equally skeptical about someone supposedly fighting for God. However, I'm less skeptical about those fighting for religious dominance. Religions are a group that many people belong to regardless of their gods or messiahs or prophets, and there are people who are willing to go to great lengths to fight and kill for the groups to which they belong.

That could be simply to do with group behaviour and the need to belong.

Nick

[Jontg]

I'm pretty clear on that history, actually--and while Israel was the defender in the first couple of wars it got wound up in, it's getting more and more aggressive with every conflict. It started the latest round of fighting, and the only thing that makes them worthy of sympathy is that they just want more territory, whereas their enemies want to literally sweep them into the ocean.
That, and the fact that Indo-aryans in general are the most badass people on Earth--but then, the Palestinians are also Semites, so that kinda cancels it out...

[GreNME]

I'm pretty clear on that history, actually--and while Israel was the defender in the first couple of wars it got wound up in, it's getting more and more aggressive with every conflict. It started the latest round of fighting, and the only thing that makes them worthy of sympathy is that they just want more territory, whereas their enemies want to literally sweep them into the ocean.
That, and the fact that Indo-aryans in general are the most badass people on Earth--but then, the Palestinians are also Semites, so that kinda cancels it out...

I'm not sure you caught what I was getting at. The first waves of Jews who lived there in the late-19th and early-20th century were invited to live there. With the exception of a few political and territorial disputes the problems didn't actually begin in earnest until Balfour and other European interests decided to get in the middle and meddle with things.

I don't know what the heck you're getting at as far as the Indo-aryans, since that's east of Afghanistan in terms of proximity to Israel, and both that distinction and that of 'semitic' is only useful as an academic cultural or historical distinction. Classifying either as 'badass' on such a vague and practically useless distinction is nonsensical at best.

[Jontg]

Well, that was kinda the point--it's humor. Somewhat true, though.

[hamelekim]

What website? Do they want to rebuild the temple specifically to bring about the End Times?

And destroying the Dome of the Rock is substantially different from "destroying the world". Why would the first be evidence for the second?

What is your source for Israel once attempting to do this? What is a "frighteningly high position"? What makes it "frightening"? And what was the nature of the attempt? Did they just propose it? Did they actually attempt it? By what means? What evidence does your source have of this attempt?

Some groups have attempted to set up a sacrifice on the mount in the past, of course they were not successful. It is true that the Jews in Israel have all the equipment, robes, etc... necessary to begin worship within the amount of time it would take to build the temple. Supposedly they have the entire temple already build, or the stones made, and it would take under 6 months to build it once they have the rights to do so.

As for destroying the dome. The Jewish temple was actually beside where the dome is located. That is where the true temple was located and so the temple mount could be shared by Jews and Muslims.

I don't think that any Christian wants to bring about Armageddon. In fact, that is impossible. If you know anything about Biblical Eschatology, the timeline is clear. The battle won't take place till the end of the 7 years of the Anti-Christs reign. Hence any attempt to create some final battle will come to nothing. In fact there will be 3.5 years of peace when the Anti-Christ makes a 7 year peace deal with Israel, allowing the temple to be rebuilt and worship to begin again. The temple has to exist in order for the Anti-Christ to enter it and set himself up as God.

Whether or not you believe all of this doesn't matter. If you see a 7 year peace deal which allows for Israel to build the temple again, be very afraid.

[hamelekim]

Actually, it was something to be worried about until fairly recently. During the darkest years of this administration, when Bush was trying to masquerade as a neocon, there were Christian Zionists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism) operating openly in just about every level of government. For those of you who haven't done any research into the nuttiest levels of Fundamentalism (and are too lazy to even read Wikipedia), the Christian Zionists are essentially a real-life doomsday cult; they want to turn the Temple Mount over to the Jews in the belief that this will bring about the end of the world. As utterly ridiculous as the idea is, the mere fact that they're trying is enough to scare the **** out of me...

Bush is completely taken by the Leadership in Israel. Several administration officials have come out stating this fact, before they were fired, of course. There have also been Israelie government officials who have come out stating that Bush said he would Support Israel and attack Iran before he leaves office.

I would worry more about Bush and the neo conservatives than the Christian fundamentalists.

I also think you fail to realize what Christianity is all about. Christians since the resurrection of Jesus have been waiting for his return. In order for him to return there are several things that need to happen. One of those things is the building of the temple on the temple mount. That won't happen until the Anti-Christ makes a peace deal with Israel. Then they build the temple mount. Then half way through the peace treaty the Anti-Christ breaks the treaty and declares himself God and begins a massive genocide of Christians and Jews, as well as anyone else who won't worship him.

So like I said, worry about the Neo Conservatives, who are part of the New World Order rather than the Christian Fundamentalists. The Neo Conservatives don't care about you or anyone else except themselves.