New World Order Map Published Feb. 1942

[JEROME DA GNOME]

New World Order Map Published Feb. 1942 (http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/06/06/286-the-new-world-moral-map/)

Should this map exist?

How did Maurice Gomburg of Philadelphia know that America was going to war? This map and outline of world domination could not have been created and published in just a couple of months. Could it?

Outline of World Domination


1. We, the U.S.A., in cooperation with our allies, for reasons of our national safety and in the interests of international morality, are determined to crush and completely destroy the military power of the Axis aggressors, and their satellites regardless of cost, effort and time necessary to accomplish this task.

...snip...Breach of Rule 4 removed.

:gnome:

[gtc]

Fascinating. I think it was just a lot of conjecture from something of a crank. I doubt Australasia (or Ceylon for that matter) would have accepted being ruled by Britain for one thing.

[hgc]

Take a map of the world, color in vast regions, and add some text with new country names? All with the caveman technologies available in 1942? And all in a couple months? Impossible, I tells ya!

Also, no friggin' way those mud-hut dwelling Egyptians built those giant pyramids with perfectly square bases and lined them up with Orion's belt. Had to be aliens from Orion! (Said aliens, btw, drew that map.)

[paximperium]

This is one cool map. I made a couple of maps for fun on alternate Earths and this is one of the coolest yet.

That's funny. The more he didn't know about the socio-political structure of an area, especially...well everywhere...especially South America, Asia and Africa, the more the just clumped them all together.

[paximperium]

Take a map of the world, color in vast regions, and add some text with new country names? All with the caveman technologies available in 1942? And all in a couple months? Impossible, I tells ya!

Also, no friggin' way those mud-hut dwelling Egyptians built those giant pyramids with perfectly square bases and lined them up with Orion's belt. Had to be aliens from Orion! (Said aliens, btw, drew that map.)

It actually looks like this guys may have been a WW2 hawk that was calling for war in Europe...there was definitely a bunch around prior to Pearl Harbor.

[hgc]

It actually looks like this guys may have been a WW2 hawk that was calling for war in Europe...there was definitely a bunch around prior to Pearl Harbor.


Yes, seems to be the case. Plenty of people assumed that the U.S. would eventually enter the war, and of course they were right. It's just fun to observe the fevered workings of the conspiratorial imagination, wherein the making of a map can't be done in the course of a few months. This map could have been conceived, drawn, and printed over the course of a week.

[Mojo]

Yeah, how could they have drawn a map, written some text, and had it published in only a couple of months?

And how could they possibly have known that Canada, Mexico and the rest of central America, the West Indies, Greenland and Iceland were going to be be part of the USA? Or that there would be superstates occupying the whole of Africa and South America? Or that Iran was going to be part of the USSR?

[Gravy]

This map and outline of world domination could not have been created and published in just a couple of months. Could it?Surely you mean a couple of hours, don't you? Because that does seem like it would have been a challenge.

[paximperium]

Surely you mean a couple of hours, don't you? Because that does seem like it would have been a challenge.

Well a well made map really did take time in the 1940s.

While newsprint etc. could be done in a few hours, a good cartographer could make a good map in a few days or weeks...most of the time was involved with actually drawing the map, not printing it. That's a form of art in and by itself.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

The map is copy written.

In today world the copy writing process takes at least 8 months.

I wonder how long it took in 1942.

U.S. Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-what.html#certificate)



The time the Copyright Office requires to process an application varies, depending on the amount of material the Office is receiving. If your submission is in order, you may generally expect to receive a certificate of registration within approximately 8 months of submission.

[paximperium]

The map is copy written.
So?


In today world the copy writing process takes at least 8 months.

I wonder how long it took in 1942.

U.S. Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-what.html#certificate)
Would you care to tell us when it was copyrighted and how long it took instead of insinuating something? No one is going to to do the work for you.

I see many "Patent-Pending" and "copyright-pending" on many products nowadays. Are you claiming you can't print a map prior to a copyright being approved?

[JEROME DA GNOME]

I see many "Patent-Pending" and "copyright-pending" on many products nowadays. Are you claiming you can't print a map prior to a copyright being approved?

The map is copy written, not pending.

[Mojo]

The map is copy written.


Did you mean: "copyright" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22copy+written%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=)?

[Mojo]

By the way, I can't quite make out the date on the LoC stamp.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Would you care to tell us when it was copyrighted and how long it took instead of insinuating something? No one is going to to do the work for you.

One can not know without going to the Library of Congress or requesting by letter a search of the The Copyright Card Catalog for any copyrights prior to 1978.

We do know that the map at the latest had a copyright Feb. 25, 1942 as noted on the map.

[Foolmewunz]

copyrighted if you have to create a verb

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Did you mean: "copyright" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22copy+written%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta=)?

Yes. :blush:

[Mojo]

Everything is copyright from the moment it is written/published. The 8 months seems to be the time the office takes to process an application for registered copyright and issue a certificate.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

By the way, I can't quite make out the date on the LoC stamp.

Download the image to Windows picture and fax viewer.

[Mojo]

We do know that the map at the latest had a copyright Feb. 25, 1942 as noted on the map.


I can't make that out as it displays here. Where on the map is it?

[paximperium]

One can not know without going to the Library of Congress or requesting by letter a search of the The Copyright Card Catalog for any copyrights prior to 1978.

We do know that the map at the latest had a copyright Feb. 25, 1942 as noted on the map.

Why don't you do that and come back and tell us?

[hgc]

The map is copy written, not pending.


http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wccc

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time.
...
Before 1978, federal copyright was generally secured by the act of publication with notice of copyright, assuming compliance with all other relevant statutory conditions.


And yet another half-witted notion supported by half(or less)-correct set of facts goes down in flames.

[paximperium]

And yet another half-witted notion supported by half(or less)-correct set of facts goes down in flames.
Well, he hasn't said anything about why the date of copyright is even relevant to his pseudo-claims.

[Mojo]

I can't make that out as it displays here. Where on the map is it?


Got it now - but see comments above.

[ddt]

The map is copy written.
"copy written"? You're talking out of your posterior orifice, aren't you?

It's copyrighted.


In today world the copy writing process takes at least 8 months.
No, today copyright is instantaneous. Everything you produce is automatically protected by copyright. See Berne convention. The certificate is not needed.


I wonder how long it took in 1942.
All it took was to deposit a copy of your writings at the Copyright Office. Nothing in your link says you actually have to wait until you get that certificate, nor does it say it always takes 8 months:
The time the Copyright Office requires to process an application varies, depending on the amount of material the Office is receiving. If your submission is in order, you may generally expect to receive a certificate of registration within approximately 8 months of submission.

I guess they won't need 8 months just for a map and 2 pages of text.

[hgc]

Well, he hasn't said anything about why the date of copyright is even relevant to his pseudo-claims.


Meh. Doesn't matter. Jerome needn't support relevancy as far as I'm concerned once the facts of his claim are shown to be true only in his head.

[Mojo]

Well, he hasn't said anything about why the date of copyright is even relevant to his pseudo-claims.


It's because everything is censored by the NWO, and nothing can be published until it has been registered by the Copyright Office. That's why our posts take an average of 8 months to appear here.

[Mojo]

In today world the copy writing process takes at least 8 months.


Especially if you have to write the copy in crayon, right? They get blunt so quickly...

[hgc]

I see that the OP was edited for Rule 4. Copyright law in action! That's ... ironic ... or something.

[Foolmewunz]

So?

Other than the fact that he strung together three magical words (New + World + Order), which has, no doubt, hardened a few nipples of the conspiradroids, what is one to make of this?

There's so much that's wrong, it could've been a high school project. I can spot a few regional and global trends he missed from over here in the Greater China Republics, already.

Karachi, India, anyone?

[hgc]

Karachi, India, anyone?


You're not buying into that whole collapse of the British Empire myth, are you?

[technoextreme]

"copy written"? You're talking out of your posterior orifice, aren't you?


No he just took a hatchet to the English language and hacked apart it's head.

[Little 10 Toes]

Well, considering the US just got pulled into the war three months before, why wouldn't we think that we would win? I'm sure all the little Nazi's had maps showing everything under their control too. To the victor goes the spoils.

[Smackety]

New World Order Map Published Feb. 1942 (http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/06/06/286-the-new-world-moral-map/)

Should this map exist?

How did Maurice Gomburg of Philadelphia know that America was going to war? This map and outline of world domination could not have been created and published in just a couple of months. Could it?

Outline of World Domination




:gnome:

1942? I think I played that videogame, I had this plane with lots of ammo and took over most of asia when I cheated. and?

[paximperium]

Well, considering the US just got pulled into the war three months before, why wouldn't we think that we would win? I'm sure all the little Nazi's had maps showing everything under their control too. To the victor goes the spoils.

I believe he is insinuating that it must have taken months for the this map to have been made and that this map is some super secret plan for the NWO's world domination prior to the US involvement in WW2 hence all this insinuations of copyrights.

[Akhenaten]

Take a map of the world, color in vast regions, and add some text with new country names? All with the caveman technologies available in 1942? And all in a couple months? Impossible, I tells ya!

Also, no friggin' way those mud-hut dwelling Egyptians built those giant pyramids with perfectly square bases and lined them up with Orion's belt. Had to be aliens from Orion! (Said aliens, btw, drew that map.)

Sssh! That's not supposed to be revealed until 2012. You'll spoil everything!

[hgc]

I believe he is insinuating that it must have taken months for the this map to have been made and that this map is some super secret plan for the NWO's world domination prior to the US involvement in WW2 hence all this insinuations of copyrights.


I think it's even simpler - that the attack on Pearl Harbor was known ahead of time and allowed to proceed so that the pretext for getting into the war would be provided. This is the granddaddy of 20th century consiracy theories and the direct ancestor to 9/11 Truthism. But then Jerome hasn't actually present his thesis vis-à-vis this map, so I can't be sure.

[Mojo]

Can you really not see the historical interest of the map?

Unfortunately the thread devolved into CT accusations with little thought about the map.

OK, would you like to comment on how well the map corresponds to the post war situation? Attention has already been drawn to some of the larger inaccuracies, but you appear to have chosen to ignore that.

ETA: after all, it's already been established that it is entirely unremarkable that they could have published the map in two months, so all you have left is their remarkable claims about the outcome.

[paximperium]

I think it's even simpler - that the attack on Pearl Harbor was known ahead of time and allowed to proceed so that the pretext for getting into the war would be provided. This is the granddaddy of 20th century consiracy theories and the direct ancestor to 9/11 Truthism. But then Jerome hasn't actually present his thesis vis-à-vis this map, so I can't be sure.

Or...he is an elite member of the NWO's Anti-Grey Strike Force(NWOAGSF) and is trying to reveal the plans of the evil Reptoid Overlord Empire with their master Gorgon to save mankind from the Galactic Super Plan...oooh throw in a dinosaur, giant robots and a superpowered alien and we have wild yarn!!!

[paximperium]

Can you really not see the historical interest of the map?

Unfortunately the thread devolved into CT accusations with little thought about the map.
It is rather funny that he considers it to be of "historical interest".

Until he actually shows some relevance of this map to history and the validity and authenticity of this map, this map is as of historical interest as a map of Middle Earth.

[Smackety]

Jerome, wasn't Maurice Gomberg a political satirist?

[Mojo]

Jerome, wasn't Maurice Gomberg a political satirist?


Actually, Jerome is Maurice Gomberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Morris) speaking from beyond the grave.

[Madalch]

It's a cool map, like most of the ones shown on that blog. But I don't see what there is to discuss about it on this forum.

I've often considered drawing maps of alternate Canadas, (uually being larger, or with provinces arranged differently), being stopped solely by my own lack of artistic talent. But they'd hardly be proof of a new world order, now would they?

[Mojo]

I've often considered drawing maps of alternate Canadas, (usually being larger, or with provinces arranged differently)...


How about arranging them in alphabetical order, so that Alberta is in the extreme West, and Yukon in the East?

[Safe-Keeper]

I've often considered drawing maps of alternate Canadas, (usually being larger, or with provinces arranged differently)...I've felt for the longest time that the Nordic nations (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and in some peoples' eyes the Orkney and Faeroe Islands) should be united due to how similar the different people are, perhaps excepting Finland;). I don't see the point in different people with negligible differences spread out over different nations, each with limited power, when we could've been one rather large nation. I'm still not opposed to the idea, even though I realize it'll never be realized and that it's growing more and more obsolete with the spread of the EU anyway:D.

[hgc]

I've felt for the longest time that the Nordic nations should be united due to how similar the different perhaps excepting Finland;). I don't see the point in different people with negligible differences spread out over different nations, each with limited power, when we could've been one rather large nation. I'm still not opposed to the idea, even though it's growing more and more obsolete with the spread of the EU:).


Every Dane, Norwegian, Swede, Icelander and Faroese just hit the roof reading your post. Expect a load of refuse fish in your mailbox.

[aggle-rithm]

I don't understand why they would expect Africa and Arabia to have their own countries. Both were controlled by European powers at that time. Why would the New World Order suddenly start handing out independence?

[JEROME DA GNOME]

I don't understand why they would expect Africa and Arabia to have their own countries. Both were controlled by European powers at that time. Why would the New World Order suddenly start handing out independence?

Independence is not part of the plan. Those are organizational structures.



15. A world League of Nationalities with arbitration and supervision powers shall be organized.

16. A World Court with punitive powers of absolute boycott, quarantine, blockade and occupation by international police, against lawbreakers of international morality shall be organized.

:gnome:

[robinson]

I've felt for the longest time that the Nordic nations (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and in some peoples' eyes the Orkney and Faeroe Islands) should be united due to how similar the different people are, perhaps excepting Finland;).


Barrels of Oil produced each day[1 (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/factbook/countrycompare/oil/1a.html)]

Iceland - 0
Sweden - 0
Finland - 0
Netherlands - 46,200















Norway - 3,310,000

[Foolmewunz]

Barrels of Oil produced each day[1 (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/factbook/countrycompare/oil/1a.html)]

Iceland - 0
Sweden - 0
Finland - 0
Netherlands - 46,200















Norway - 3,310,000

Netherlands has moved to Scandinavia?

Denmark 400,000

[gtc]

Netherlands has moved to Scandinavia?


I believe there was a viking raid last Thursday.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

The copyright notification lacks the, "©" symbol, and the "Copyright, 1942," and the, "Maurice Gomberg," are in different typefaces and at different registrations on the paper.

The implication, to me, is that it was a Common law copyright, which requires little more than sending yourself a copy of the product by registered mail and keeping the registration receipt and the resulting mail. He possibly used a blank product map and his own coloring, placing his name in the space provided for copyright.

(This after downloading the 14MB JPEG2000 map (http://memory.loc.gov/gmd/gmd3/g3200/g3200/ct001256.jp2) from the Library of Congress (http://memory.loc.gov/gmd/gmd3/g3200/g3200/) website (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item.pl?data=/home/www/data/gmd/gmd3/g3200/g3200/ct001256.jp2&style=gmd&itemLink=r?ammem/gmd:@field(NUMBER+@band(g3200+ct001256))&title=Outline%20of%20post-war%20new%20world%20map.) and the JPEG2000 reader from Earth Resources Mapping (http://www.ermapper.com/).)

Ummm - nope. Handwritten note on the upper left says:
Copyright not renewed
SLA 6-2-70
Oh, dopey me!

[ddt]

Iceland - 0
Sweden - 0
Finland - 0
Netherlands - 46,200
Norway - 3,310,000

Netherlands has moved to Scandinavia?

I believe there was a viking raid last Thursday.

Unfortunately yes. Our navy was away in the Somalian waters so they found the coast unguarded. Fortunately, these days, the viking raids are restricted to robbing liquor stores. Our ambassador in Scandinavia has voiced our dismay at this behaviour with the Scandinavian court in Kalmar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmar_Union).

[gtc]

Union of Kalmar, my history lesson for the day. Thanks.

[Gurdur]

New World Order Map Published Feb. 1942 (http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/06/06/286-the-new-world-moral-map/)

Should this map exist?


Should any map exist? This one got caught for a while in the Philadelphia Experiment, and did time in the Bermuda Triangle, and only escaped now.


How did Maurice Gomburg of Philadelphia know


He got drunk and stoned and did his usual precognitive stunt to try impressing the girl next door, only this time it worked.


Outline of World Domination


How the hell did you discover my aims, Jerome?

[robinson]

It is an interesting map. And on that map, the Netherlands is part of Scandanavia.

[aggle-rithm]

It is an interesting map. And on that map, the Netherlands is part of Scandanavia.

Speaking of interesting maps, when my wife's grandmother died a few years ago, she brought back from the funeral of few of her belongings after they had been divided up among the family. One was a cheap, dented metal globe. Upon further inspection, I realized that the political boundaries on it were consistent with the WWII era, just before Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

I wish there was some way I could scan it into an image file and "flatten" it into a world map. It's fascinating!

[robinson]

Coat it with ink and roll it on a piece of paper.

Or, does it look similar to this?
http://www.maps.com/map.aspx?pid=15971

The Classic National Geographic World map of 1941. One of the last maps published prior to the bombing of Pearl Harbor, this extaordinary map shows the Eastern and Western Hemispheres, and features classic colorization to show the country borders and relief shading.

[aggle-rithm]

Coat it with ink and roll it on a piece of paper.

Or, does it look similar to this?
http://www.maps.com/map.aspx?pid=15971

No, that's not quite it...this one showed all the occupied territories of Japan, including much of China. It was interesting because there seemed to be some confusion over whether the LEGAL boundaries or the DE FACTO boundaries should be shown.

[robinson]

Get out the ink.

[aggle-rithm]

Independence is not part of the plan. Those are organizational structures.





:gnome:

So there would be NO independent nations under this plan?

Sounds great! Let's go for it!

[JEROME DA GNOME]

So there would be NO independent nations under this plan?

Sounds great! Let's go for it!

This is what I do not get.

Many reasonable people believe that there should be One-World government, yet if the subject is brought up it is considered conspiracy theory.

:gnome:

[aggle-rithm]

This is what I do not get.

Many reasonable people believe that there should be One-World government, yet if the subject is brought up it is considered conspiracy theory.

:gnome:

It's considered a conspiracy theory if people claim there already IS a One-World government, or if there is a vast, secret conspiracy to create one.

Such a conspiracy would have to be very, very vast indeed, for the motley collection of humans on this planet would sooner eat their own waste products than spontaneously form a One-World government.

[Ocelot]

If by the year three thousand my descendents do not ahve the right to live and work anywhere in the world and expect the same basic human right wherever they are then I think something will have gone tragically wrong with human progress.

I'm not the only person who thinks so. There are many individuals and groups who share this objective. It is not necessary that they conspire to this end. When separate parties have compatible objectives they may appear to be working in consort when in fact there is no hidden communication. The bee and the flower did not conspire to produce their noted symbiosis, they merely co-evolved with compatible objectives.

The conspiracy theorist is deficient in assuming that a co-ordinating body must exist to manage these symbiotic relationships. In that they have much in common with the intelligent design movement. They cannot comprehend how such complex inter relationships could occur without concious design and they find no impediment with the lack of supportive evidence for thier unnecessary conclusions.

There have been many revolutions each bring about their own "New World Order." The phrase means many things to many people in many contexts. But to the conspiracy theorist it always means only one thing. The inscrutible aims of a hidden organisation.

[Piscivore]

It looks to me like someone was prototyping a "Risk"-type board game.

[ZirconBlue]

Every Dane, Norwegian, Swede, Icelander and Faroese just hit the roof reading your post. Expect a load of refuse fish in your mailbox.


I was under the impression that they never refuse fish.



;)

[mrbaracuda]

Well thank god the all mighty omnipresent NWO failed and those Russians didn't have as much as depicted! \o/

[ddt]

It is an interesting map. And on that map, the Netherlands is part of Scandanavia.

No it isn't. Netherlands is part of the "United States of Europe". You know, Netherlands is north of Belgium which is north of France. And Netherlands is west to Germany.

It really seems you're confusing it with Denmark. And I thought this confusion was only a caricature we had of US-ians :).

[TX50]

It really seems you're confusing it with Denmark. And I thought this confusion was only a caricature we had of US-ians :).

Oh, the stories I could tell about that. I've had yanks assume that
Belgium is "part of Holland", Versailles is in Germany and that Cedex
is a city in France (the French sales team were hauled over the coals
because some genius in the USA head-office noticed that all the
orders came from a place called "Cedex"). "Cedex" is a French
abbreviation that means something similar to "PO Box".

[ddt]

Union of Kalmar, my history lesson for the day. Thanks.

You're welcome. Now did Safe-Keeper already know about it? Or do they repress it in history lessons in Norway because the king was a Dane? :) Guess they do learn about Canute the Great :).

BTW, you were absolutely right about the viking raids; they were quite popular around here, and were a major factor in the demise of Dorestad, the biggest port around here in those times.

[ddt]

Well thank god the all mighty omnipresent NWO failed and those Russians didn't have as much as depicted! \o/

You mean they didn't get Yugoslavia and Persia? That's about the only difference I see. :D

[robinson]

Some people still think some Russians conspired to take over the world under one socialist government and stuff. Silly Conspiracy Theorist.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Some people still think some Russians conspired to take over the world under one socialist government and stuff. Silly Conspiracy Theorist.

That is just silly.

It would be impossible to organize a nation the size of the U.S.S.R. for such a task.

In addition, there is no way people would ever try to run the world in the image that they think best.

In fact, to think that two diverging views of how to run the world would ever be able to organize enough nations to compete these ideas on a world scale is ridiculous.


:gnome:

[Gurdur]

fnord.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

fnord.

:D

[fagin]

Nations change, boundaries change, people change. There is no reason to suppose that nationalism is eternal.

[Almo]

What a great blog! Thanks for the tip, JEROME.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Nations change, boundaries change, people change. There is no reason to suppose that nationalism is eternal.

Do you envision that will will ever receive a world government?

[JEROME DA GNOME]

What a great blog! Thanks for the tip, JEROME.

Happy to have found it myself.

I am glad that you enjoy it.

:gnome:

[Gurdur]

Do you envision that will will ever receive a world government?


Extremely unlikely.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Extremely unlikely.

Why is that your position?

:gnome:

[Prometheus]

Maybe this map is just an old vodka advertisement.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Maybe this map is just an old vodka advertisement.

Doesn't a post like that belong in "Too Much Information"?
That reminds me, I've got a big hunk of meat in the smoker.
Don't do that.
:boxedin:


Prometheus, do you think it unlikely that we will have world government?



:gnome:

[Prometheus]

Prometheus, do you think it unlikely that we will have world government?



:gnome:

I have no idea how to calculate the the statistical probability of such a proposition. I believe I'd be surprised if that were to happen within my lifetime.

[Gurdur]

Why is that your position?

:gnome:

Because societies are simply far too different, in so many ways (socially, economically, etc.), and because geographically they are too far apart, and because the bigger the state the more info channels you need, and there steps in the principle of Diminishing Returns. I.e., the info breaks down, there is too much needed just to process info for governance on such a huge scale, etc.

Might still be possible, but neither you nor I will live long enough to see it happen, and no-one here will live long enough to see it happen either.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Because societies are simply far too different, in so many ways (socially, economically, etc.), and because geographically they are too far apart, and because the bigger the state the more info channels you need, and there steps in the principle of Diminishing Returns. I.e., the info breaks down, there is too much needed just to process info for governance on such a huge scale, etc.

Might still be possible, but neither you nor I will live long enough to see it happen, and no-one here will live long enough to see it happen either.


Ahh, but if there were some technology which allows global information exchange and a mechanism for melding of culture...



:gnome:

[Gurdur]

Ahh, but if there were some technology which allows global information exchange and a mechanism for melding of culture...

Such technology already exists. Technology such as "talking", "reading", "travel" and "sex".

However, no amount of technology can suffice for certain impediments. Sheer size + diminishing returns are such impediments; just as given all the technology in the world, you still cannot go faster than light.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Such technology already exists. Technology such as "talking", "reading", "travel" and "sex".

However, no amount of technology can suffice for certain impediments. Sheer size + diminishing returns are such impediments; just as given all the technology in the world, you still cannot go faster than light.

I believe we are on the precipice.

Change most always brings trepidation.



FYI: The Walt Disney video of the lemmings was a forgery.

[Gurdur]

I believe we are on the precipice.


If only. Instead, we're in the middle of a really boring and very big plateau.

Change most always brings trepidation.


Not with me. I like change.

FYI: The Walt Disney video of the lemmings was a forgery.


I know that already. Dunno what the connection is supposed to be, but I know already.

[mrbaracuda]

You mean they didn't get Yugoslavia and Persia? That's about the only difference I see. :D

What do I care about .. what do you call it? Yugoslavia and Persia? It's all about Schland baby! :D

[ddt]

What do I care about .. what do you call it? Yugoslavia and Persia? It's all about Schland baby! :D

Oops, that's what you get when you write this from memory. Indeed:
14. The U.S.S.R., the third military Power of importance cooperating with the U.S.A. as a Power for freedom and the maintenance of world peace, shall acquire control of the liberated, disorganized adjacent areas and those of Germany-Austria to be re-educated and eventually incorporated as equal republics of the U.S.S.R., as approximately outlined on map.
At least the Rhineland was not to be part of the USSR :D. The comments of the blogger are also interesting:

# The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR): the Soviets were to be rewarded with Persia (Iran), Mongolia, Manchuria, Finland, and all of Eastern Europe, which subsequently would form part of the Eastern Bloc (excluding Albania, but including the real-life maverick state of Yugoslavia, socialist but anti-Soviet). All of theses states were simply to become member-states of the USSR. Austria and most of Germany, although ‘quarantained’ are shown within the Soviet sphere.

Apparently he is not aware that Mongolia was already a Soviet-style socialist republic from 1922 onwards.

And Yugoslavia and Persia: yes, that's what those states were called in those days.

[robinson]

Should this map exist?

No, it should not exist. Somebody screwed up, and didn't destroy all copies. But it is easy enough, even at this late date, to dismiss and mock any attempt to put together the pieces of the great plan.

Only nutjobs and conspiracy freaks would even consider that we planned anything out in advance. Even this huge boner-

The area of the Holy Land of the ancient Hebrews, at present known as Palestine and Trans-Jordan, and the adjacent requisite regions outlined on map, for considerations of history and the imperative necessity to alleviate a post-war refugess problem, shall be unified as a demilitarized independent republic of “Hebrewland”.
http://www.joeydevilla.com/2007/09/19/map-of-a-proposed-new-world-order/

is easy to debunk. After all, it is just a map, it might be a fake. Nobody takes it seriously, there never was an conspiracy, nobody planned anything, only Anti-Semites would think that, what, are you some kind of Nazi lover? Huh? Huh?

Why do you hate freedom?

[mrbaracuda]

Oops, that's what you get when you write this from memory. Indeed:

At least the Rhineland was not to be part of the USSR :D. The comments of the blogger are also interesting:


Apparently he is not aware that Mongolia was already a Soviet-style socialist republic from 1922 onwards.

You actually read that crap? Gee, ddt, I am worried about you! ;)

Yugoslavia and Persia

Who? ;)

[mrbaracuda]

No, it should not exist.

Right! This one shouldn't exist either though:

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/axis_new_world_order_map.gif

:scarper:

[robinson]

Exactly. Those kinds of maps make it look like certain people planned to take over the world. Which we all know nobody ever does. (planning to, getting together and secretly making plans and stuff). That would be a vast conspiracy, and everybody knows there are no such conspiracies.

[ddt]

You actually read that crap? Gee, ddt, I am worried about you! ;)
Only to answer your post.

[mrbaracuda]

Only to answer your post.

I hope there is no secret message and agenda behind your post! :cool:

[ddt]

I hope there is no secret message and agenda behind your post! :cool:

I tried to look behind my post, but all I found was the lid of my laptop :p

[UnrepentantSinner]

It really seems you're confusing it with Denmark. And I thought this confusion was only a caricature we had of US-ians :).

What are US-ians?

[mrbaracuda]

What are US-ians?

Oh don't mind ddt. ;)

[UnrepentantSinner]

Oh don't mind ddt. ;)

It's a pet peeve of mine. :blush:

[mrbaracuda]

That's a fine weapon in your avatar by the way. ;)

[ddt]

It's a pet peeve of mine. :blush:

The "US-ians" bit? So how should I then refer, unambiguously, to inhabitants of the USA as opposed to inhabitants of the American continents?

[mrbaracuda]

The "US-ians" bit? So how should I then refer, unambiguously, to inhabitants of the USA as opposed to inhabitants of the American continents?

Amerikans. :cool:

[ddt]

Amerikans. :cool:

:) Nice one. When I get criticized for it, I put the blame on you. OK? :) ;)

[robinson]

Why do you hate freedom?

[ddt]

Why do you hate freedom?

http://www.neuepresse.de/storage/pic/artikel/zentral/haz/archiv/110202_1_stroh.jpg

Thanks to mrbaracuda for finding the picture :)

[robinson]

You hate America because you hate freedom!

[mrbaracuda]

Thanks to mrbaracuda for finding the picture :)

Hehehe. :cool:
robinson, he might hate America for her freedoms, but he loves straw! ;)

[robinson]

heh heh

Now back to the NWO ...

[UnrepentantSinner]

The "US-ians" bit? So how should I then refer, unambiguously, to inhabitants of the USA as opposed to inhabitants of the American continents?

The proper way - Americans. Everyone else on the continent has similar proper demonyms like Mexicans, Brazilians, Uraguayans, Bolivians, Canadians, Hondurans, Cubans, Hatians, etc.

US-ians is a meaningless glob of two letters, a hyphen and two phonems.

[Prometheus]

The proper way - Americans. Everyone else on the continent has similar proper demonyms like Mexicans, Brazilians, Uraguayans, Bolivians, Canadians, Hondurans, Cubans, Hatians, etc.

US-ians is a meaningless glob of two letters, a hyphen and two phonems.

And here I thought he was talking about your followers.... :cool:

[Foolmewunz]

The proper way - Americans. Everyone else on the continent has similar proper demonyms like Mexicans, Brazilians, Uraguayans, Bolivians, Canadians, Hondurans, Cubans, Hatians, etc.

US-ians is a meaningless glob of two letters, a hyphen and two phonems.

Ah, I see. I now understand an exchange from a couple of weeks ago. (Hey, I'm quick on the uptake.) Ditto Prometheus' comment immediately above. I thought it was a comment on US as an abbreviation of your screen personna.

Meh? I use it as a lite rib for people who nitpick and go on and on about how Americans can't take the name of the continent for themselves. I really don't know anyone who refers to Americans as anything other than Americans. Oh, maybe someone in a formal article or text might use "citizens of the USA"or somesuch, but I don't know and Canadians or Mexicans who want to be called Americans.

[UnrepentantSinner]

And here I thought he was talking about your followers.... :cool:

Those are US-tologists. :D

Ah, I see. I now understand an exchange from a couple of weeks ago. (Hey, I'm quick on the uptake.) Ditto Prometheus' comment immediately above. I thought it was a comment on US as an abbreviation of your screen personna.

I don't say anything to my fellow forumites other than in jest, but "U.S." for the country and "US" for me could reduce confusion in threads I'm posting to.

I really don't know anyone who refers to Americans as anything other than Americans.

See ddt's post #68 quoted above. I've also seen Darat use it as well as others I can't recall specifically now. It wasn't until I saw it used repeatedly that it became a pet peeve of mine.

[ddt]

I don't say anything to my fellow forumites other than in jest, but "U.S." for the country and "US" for me could reduce confusion in threads I'm posting to.
Well, that one's easy: the proper name is USA. That's only one letter more and totally unambiguous. And there have been more states in the world that were/are "United States of ...".


Meh? I use it as a lite rib for people who nitpick and go on and on about how Americans can't take the name of the continent for themselves. I really don't know anyone who refers to Americans as anything other than Americans. Oh, maybe someone in a formal article or text might use "citizens of the USA"or somesuch, but I don't know and Canadians or Mexicans who want to be called Americans.


See ddt's post #68 quoted above. I've also seen Darat use it as well as others I can't recall specifically now. It wasn't until I saw it used repeatedly that it became a pet peeve of mine.

I didn't use it to pick on something; just as a way to unambiguously refer to inhabitants of the USA. In the context I used it, using "Americans" could have also been interpreted as applying to Canadians, Mexicans, Brazilians, etc. Just as Americans may be wont sometimes to just speak of Europeans and lump them all together.

How do you solve that problem?

[UnrepentantSinner]

Well, that one's easy: the proper name is USA. That's only one letter more and totally unambiguous. And there have been more states in the world that were/are "United States of ...".

How many of them are referred to as "the U.S." other than the U.S.? What is our currency? The United States Dollar or the United States of America Dollar? What is our Army called? The United States Army or the United States of America Army? And there is currently only one other nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_%28disambiguation%29) with "united states" in it's name - Mexico, but even then it's not "U.S." it's "E.U." because their proper name is in Spanish.

I didn't use it to pick on something; just as a way to unambiguously refer to inhabitants of the USA. In the context I used it, using "Americans" could have also been interpreted as applying to Canadians, Mexicans, Brazilians, etc. Just as Americans may be wont sometimes to just speak of Europeans and lump them all together.

No. Simply no. Your non-sense collection of letters and phonems does not refer to inhabitants of the U.S. That proper and unambiguous term is American. When referring to peoples of the Americas, that's precisely the term used. Just as when referring to inhabitants of the E.U.M., you call them by their proper demonym - Mexican.

And Americans only refer to Europeans when we're referring to the entirety of the continent or sometimes Western Europe, otherwise we use the proper demonym*.

How do you solve that problem?

By using the proper demonym for Americans which is Americans rather than a non-sense collection of letters and phonems.

* Yes, yes. English, Britons, U.K.ers, etc. I know some of us have confusion with you guys.

[mrbaracuda]

Oh come on ddt, stop it. Everyone knows they're called Americans and your comparison to Europeans is silly because we might have the EU, but we also got individual countries. Silly ddt! :p

[ddt]

How many of them are referred to as "the U.S." other than the U.S.?
So what? Don't you like it when people call your country by its proper name? I know I do.


No. Simply no. Your non-sense collection of letters and phonems does not refer to inhabitants of the U.S. That proper and unambiguous term is American. When referring to peoples of the Americas, that's precisely the term used.
No that's wrong. I wanted to refer to "all humans living in the Americas". You're saying it's the "peoples of the Americas", but that refers to the collection of peoples, in mathematical terms that is
{ Canadians, Americans, Mexicans, ..., Argentinians }
so a collection of collections of humans, whereas I want to be able to refer to the collection
{ c1, c2, ..., u1, u2, ..., m1, m2, ..., ..., a1, a2, ... }
if you get my drift.


And Americans only refer to Europeans when we're referring to the entirety of the continent or sometimes Western Europe, otherwise we use the proper demonym*.

* Yes, yes. English, Britons, U.K.ers, etc. I know some of us have confusion with you guys.
Or with proper country names (England? Holland?) or its basic geography.

[mrbaracuda]

So what? Don't you like it when people call your country by its proper name? I know I do.

I'll call you The Netherlandserian from now on! :p

Or with proper country names (England? Holland?) or its basic geography.

Nasty ddt! ;)

[robinson]

You are all off topic and have been reported.

[robinson]

And if you believe that, the terrible fact that I would narc you out for a humorous discussion, then you really should be reported.

Because you lost your sense of humor.






























Now back to the NWO map. I would love to see the real one, that the winners of WWII drew up after the war.

[mrbaracuda]

I'd rather see a current "Moral World Map". I can offer this one for the meantime though. No wonder you'd like to see something from the past again, robinson. You know, living there and all.

http://c.imagehost.org/0584/zeitzone_web.gif

:D

[The Man]

Should this map exist?

:gnome:


This is clearly an outdated NWO map, as it shows Australia as part of the “British Commonwealth of Nations”. In recognition for my efforts to support NWO doctrine and aid in the reptilian takeover of Earth, I have been promised Australia, which will be subsequently known as “Manstralia”. Please, get some up to date information.

[ddt]

I'd rather see a current "Moral World Map". I can offer this one for the meantime though. No wonder you'd like to see something from the past again, robinson. You know, living there and all.

:D :D

Cute map. Why are Germany and Italy colored brown, other than the surrounding European countries in the same time zone? Has it something to do with...

PS. I see that Netherlands and Finland are brown too :)

[bruto]

I don't know why the map in question should incite a whole lot of excitement other than the interest of understanding how some people were speculating about the postwar world back in 1942.

But the Strange Maps site is quite interesting. I see that there's also an Irish conspiracy to move most of the settled areas of upstate New York and Vermont to Hudson Bay. I suspect that the nefarious Irish are pre-planning a way to take over the air routes of the northeast in response to the mass migrations caused by global warming. They're probably toking their furnaces with extra peat to speed it up as we speak. Sneeeea-ky!

[UnrepentantSinner]

Oh come on ddt, stop it. Everyone knows they're called Americans and your comparison to Europeans is silly because we might have the EU, but we also got individual countries. Silly ddt! :p

Oh I know it's vogue amongst some European and European derived polities to hate the U.S. to the point where they refuse to use proper terms when referring to us, but one of the ironies in this case is that not only did I live in Germany for 3 1/2 years and have a great love for Europeans but spent a wonderful two weeks in the Netherlands. While ddt seems to just be trying to juice the piglet, I will retain my indignant lecture mode regardless.

I wonder if ddt has ever lived visited the U.S.

So what? Don't you like it when people call your country by its proper name? I know I do.

Are you trying for the hypocrite award? What do you mean "so what"? Answer my question. How many other nations are referred to as the "U.S" other than the "U.S."?

No that's wrong. I wanted to refer to "all humans living in the Americas". You're saying it's the "peoples of the Americas", but that refers to the collection of peoples..{snip B.S. diversion}

No, it is wrong. Feel free to cite any example you can of media or governments outside the U.S. referring to "Americans" that refers to all of the Western Hemisphere. I await your arcane example and have hundreds of examples from the BBC alone that refers to citizens of the U.S. as "Americans" in response.

[QUOTE=ddt;3837025]Or with proper country names (England? Holland?) or its basic geography.

Perhaps if English were your first language I'd understand what you meant by this, but your quibble is with demonyms, not proper country names. England is different from Britain and from the U.K. Holland is a term for the Netherlands. Neither fact has any relavence as to whether someone from Equador is more properly or equally referred to as an "American" than someone from the U.S.

My German has degraded to the point where I can only say things like "wo ist der Bahnhof" and my Dutch is even worse, but spare me the patronizing B.S. ddt. If you just hate the U.S. to the point where you cannot call us Americans as we properly should be called, why don't you just admit it.

[mrbaracuda]

Oh I know it's vogue amongst some European and European derived polities to hate the U.S. to the point where they refuse to use proper terms when referring to us[...] While ddt seems to just be trying to juice the piglet, I will retain my indignant lecture mode regardless.

I wonder if ddt has ever lived visited the U.S.

If you just hate the U.S. to the point where you cannot call us Americans as we properly should be called, why don't you just admit it.

He's some kind of socialist, and you know what those people, especially in Europe these days, are like, don't you? :( You capitalist :pig:, showing off your accumulation of wealth in your avatar by sporting that damn fine piece of G.D.R.ian weaponry! *snicker* :pig:

[mrbaracuda]

:D :D

Cute map. Why are Germany and Italy colored brown, other than the surrounding European countries in the same time zone? Has it something to do with...

PS. I see that Netherlands and Finland are brown too :)

Yes, and so are.. Israel and South Africa! :eek:
By the way, I took it from www.weltzeit.de

[ddt]

Oh I know it's vogue amongst some European and European derived polities to hate the U.S. to the point where they refuse to use proper terms when referring to us, but one of the ironies in this case is that not only did I live in Germany for 3 1/2 years and have a great love for Europeans but spent a wonderful two weeks in the Netherlands. While ddt seems to just be trying to juice the piglet, I will retain my indignant lecture mode regardless.
Wow, I certainly hit a nerve with writing just once "US-ians" :D There's a lot you seem to derive from that :), or at least muse about.

He's some kind of socialist, and you know what those people, especially in Europe these days, are like, don't you? :( You capitalist :pig:, showing off your accumulation of wealth in your avatar by sporting that damn fine piece of G.D.R.ian weaponry! *snicker* :pig:
Ah, socialist equals anti-American! I wouldn't have expected otherwise from you, mrbaracuda! Frankly, I worry more about the Americans' gas-guzzling than their carrying weapons.


I wonder if ddt has ever lived visited the U.S.
What has that to do with it?


Are you trying for the hypocrite award? What do you mean "so what"? Answer my question. How many other nations are referred to as the "U.S" other than the "U.S."?
Currently none. Do you object to me writing USA or do you insist that I'd write US? "USA" is the official acronym (and the ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 country code) of the official name "United States of America", isn't it? It's up to me to decide to go that extra mile keystroke to write that, isn't it?



No that's wrong. I wanted to refer to "all humans living in the Americas". You're saying it's the "peoples of the Americas", but that refers to the collection of peoples..{snip B.S. diversion}

No, it is wrong. Feel free to cite any example you can of media or governments outside the U.S. referring to "Americans" that refers to all of the Western Hemisphere. I await your arcane example and have hundreds of examples from the BBC alone that refers to citizens of the U.S. as "Americans" in response.
From the American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/american):

n.
1. A native or inhabitant of America.
2. A citizen of the United States.
3. American English.

So there's clearly ambiguity.


[quote=ddt]Or with proper country names (England? Holland?) or its basic geography.
Perhaps if English were your first language I'd understand what you meant by this, but your quibble is with demonyms, not proper country names. England is different from Britain and from the U.K. Holland is a term for the Netherlands. Neither fact has any relavence as to whether someone from Equador is more properly or equally referred to as an "American" than someone from the U.S.
This whole thing started off when I corrected Robinson when he placed the Netherlands in Scandinavia. So there is relevance.

[lecture mode on]
And Holland is not identical to the Netherlands. When in 1579, with the Union of Utrecht, 7 counties/duchies decided to unite into an independent country called "the Republic of the 7 United Provinces" - the precursor to the nowadays Netherlands - Holland was one of those counties, albeit the most populous, richest, and most visible to the outside world. Currently, there are two provinces North Holland and South Holland. Calling "Holland" a synonym for the Netherlands is just as erroneous as calling "England" a synonym for the United Kingdom.
[lecture mode off]


If you just hate the U.S. to the point where you cannot call us Americans as we properly should be called, why don't you just admit it.
Where do you infer I hate the USA?

[mrbaracuda]

Ah, socialist equals anti-American! I wouldn't have expected otherwise from you, mrbaracuda! Frankly, I worry more about the Americans' gas-guzzling than their carrying weapons.

Heey! To many socialists and people you find in the left spectrum America is the epitome of capitalism! Why wouldn't you have expected otherwise from me though and what does Americans carrying weapons have to do with this? :confused:

[robinson]

I was joking about the hating comments.

It is a standard American joke. Anybody says anything negative about America, you respond by saying "Why do you hate freedom?", or something like that.

[mrbaracuda]

"the Republic of the 7 United Provinces"

:drinkspit: Were there dwarfs and fairies? :D

[paximperium]

[lecture mode on]
And Holland is not identical to the Netherlands. When in 1579, with the Union of Utrecht, 7 counties/duchies decided to unite into an independent country called "the Republic of the 7 United Provinces" - the precursor to the nowadays Netherlands - Holland was one of those counties, albeit the most populous, richest, and most visible to the outside world. Currently, there are two provinces North Holland and South Holland. Calling "Holland" a synonym for the Netherlands is just as erroneous as calling "England" a synonym for the United Kingdom.
[lecture mode off]
I'm confused...where are the Dutch in relation to Holland and the Netherland? (I expect a lecture soon :viking1)


Where do you infer I hate the USA?
Why do you hate the USA? :rolleyes:

[ddt]

"the Republic of the 7 United Provinces"
:drinkspit: Were there dwars and fairies? :D

Maybe. Certainly there were giants. Like William the Silent: born lutheran, raised catholic, died calvinist, he was one of the first politicians to publicly declare that religion is Privatsache. Or his son Maurice of Nassau, noted general and military innovator. Or "prime ministers" Johan van Oldenbarnevelt and Johan de Witt, the latter also an accomplished mathematician and founder of actuarial science.

Envious that your country didn't unite until 3 centuries later? :D

To get back on topic: here's another map of a proposed NWO after WW2:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/Bakker_Schut-plan.PNG

From Bakker-Schut Plan.

[Gurdur]

.... but spare me the patronizing B.S. ddt. If you just hate the U.S. to the point where you cannot call us Americans as we properly should be called, why don't you just admit it.


This is an amazing and weird over-reaction, and utterly wrong as to its ascription of alleged motive to ddt.

[ddt]

I'm confused...where are the Dutch in relation to Holland and the Netherland? (I expect a lecture soon :viking1)
The English word Dutch, the German word Deutsch, and the Dutch words Diets (=old word for Dutch) and Duits (=German) all go back to a proto-Germanic word meaning "people". English retained the word to refer (only) to the western-most Germanic tribes on the continent. In the Netherlands, the adjective "Diets" as pertaining to the Netherlands has gradually fallen into disuse in favour of "Nederlands". See Dietsch and Dutch (ethnic group).

BTW, the plural form in English - "The Netherlands" - is literally synonymous with the Low Countries, originally the 17 counties/duchies/bishoprics which made up the Burgundian heritage of king Charles V of Spain. This area was about the same as the current Benelux. Of these 17, 7 managed to break away into independence.

In Dutch, we use "Nederland" (singular) to denote the European country, and "Koninkrijk der Nederlanden" (Kingdom of the Netherlands - plural) to denote the constellation of the countries Nederland, Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles.

Confused yet? :)


Why do you hate the USA? :rolleyes:
Hey, I see you're writing USA instead of U.S. Look out for UnrepentantSinner, he'll shoot you down for it! :p

[Gurdur]

Come global warming's worse effects, and the Nederland will be more neder than ever.

[paximperium]

So in modern use, the most appropriate way to describe the country is Netherlands but do Netherlanders prefer to be called Netherlanders, Dutch etc?

BTW:
:bigtank: What did ya say about the US, boy?

[mrbaracuda]

Envious that your country didn't unite until 3 centuries later? :D

Ha, how dare you, you puny little neighbouring country that was occupied by us! ;)

[ddt]

So in modern use, the most appropriate way to describe the country is Netherlands but do Netherlanders prefer to be called Netherlanders, Dutch etc?
Do we have a say in that? Dutch is English usage and it's unambiguous. As long as you don't confuse us with the Pennsylvania Dutch (they're of German descent), and don't think that Dutch clocks are from the Netherlands (they're from the Black Forest in Germany).


:bigtank: What did ya say about the US, boy?
Is that tank a Tiger? :)

[mrbaracuda]

Is that tank a Tiger? :)

Stop mocking us! :mad::D

"Is that a non-existing tank you have there, Dutch men?" :p

[Gurdur]

Do we have a say in that? Dutch is English usage and it's unambiguous. As long as you don't confuse us with the Pennsylvania Dutch (they're of German descent),


Not completely. IIRC -- the Pennsylvania Dutch (the "Dutch" is an Anglicization of their own word "Deutsch") actually mostly come originally from Switzerland, and went through Krefeld in nothern Germany (you can find Crefeld Street in Pennsylvania). In Krefeld they founded a fabric industry, but left Krefeld for Pennslyvania fairly quickly, and many went more or less directly from Switzerland to Pennsylvania.

Fine, fine, Schweizer Deutsche, but still not Germans.

[ddt]

Stop mocking us! :mad::D
Mocking? The Tiger was a great tank. Its only disadvantage were the low numbers in which it was produced.


"Is that a non-existing tank you have there, Dutch men?" :p
Who needs tanks when you have the Dutch Water Line? With the ongoing AGW, we don't even have to spend money on it :D

[mrbaracuda]

Mocking?

Yes, by comparing it to some.. some.. some crappy BRADLEY or whatever that's supposed to be! Like, talk about pff. :D

The Tiger was a great tank. Its only disadvantage were the low numbers in which it was produced.

Oh really? I thought it was its box shape, weight and complexity. Shooting Russians at 1 or 2km+ and being able to blow off their upper parts is a fun thing to do though I guess.

[paximperium]

Mocking? The Tiger was a great tank. Its only disadvantage were the low numbers in which it was produced.

Tiger...nah it looks like some sort of troop transport.

The Tiger an..okay tank. Powerful, slow but too complicated and expensive to make. Go for the Russian's T-34, cheap powerful and downright easy to make. Still anything better than our Sherman tanks...

Well I've got to figure out what to call people from the Netherlands. Hey you or you European Unionist or maybe you Lowlander just doesn't seem polite.

[paximperium]

Yes, by comparing it to some.. some.. some crappy BRADLEY or whatever that's supposed to be! Like, talk about pff. :D

Oh really? I thought it was its box shape, weight and complexity. Shooting Russians at 1 or 2km+ and being able to blow off their upper parts is a fun thing to do though I guess.

Don't you attack my Smiley Bradley. At least I have a tank smiley...where's yours?

The T-34 kicked the Panzer and Tiger tanks...hah!

[mrbaracuda]

http://c.imagehost.org/0804/panz543.gif
http://c.imagehost.org/0133/paz856.gif
http://c.imagehost.org/0804/panz543.gif
http://c.imagehost.org/0133/paz856.gif
http://c.imagehost.org/0804/panz543.gif

[paximperium]

This means war...Eat this!!!
Get em boy!!!
:scorgi Hurk?

I think we should stop.

[mrbaracuda]

Maybe. :)
Back to.. what was the topic? Oh yes. NWO maps. JEROME! Keep 'em coming!

[ddt]

Oh really? I thought it was its box shape, weight and complexity. Shooting Russians at 1 or 2km+ and being able to blow off their upper parts is a fun thing to do though I guess.
As all German tanks, they were built too complex. Too much maintenance compared to a T-34.

But they were great tank killers; not just Russian tanks, the most famous exploit was of Michael Wittman who held up the entire Allied 7th Armoured Division at Villiers Bocage.


The Tiger an..okay tank. Powerful, slow but too complicated and expensive to make. Go for the Russian's T-34, cheap powerful and downright easy to make. Still anything better than our Sherman tanks...
Yeah well that's no comparison :)


Well I've got to figure out what to call people from the Netherlands. Hey you or you European Unionist or maybe you Lowlander just doesn't seem polite.
"European Unionist" sounds too much like a pro-EU activist. Then make it EU-ian or some such :).

Don't you attack my Smiley Bradley. At least I have a tank smiley...where's yours?

The T-34 kicked the Panzer and Tiger tanks...hah!
You mean Panther or Panzer-IV? And they could only get the Tiger sideways. Or by just ramming them :).

[mrbaracuda]

As all German tanks, they were built too complex. Too much maintenance compared to a T-34.

Well they were made for clever people. The Russians thanks though...Pflugschare und so.. :D

And they could only get the Tiger sideways. Or by just ramming them :).

While I enjoy a good discussion about WW2 weaponry, I don't want to derail (haha, as if I'd ever do such a thing, right?) this thread, I'll just answer your last statement by saying 'no': No. 85mm >1km iirc ! ;)

[UnrepentantSinner]

As all German tanks, they were built too complex. Too much maintenance compared to a T-34.

Ugh, don't get me started on how over-engineered much of the German weaponry of WWII was. My officers training was for artillery and it gave me an appreciation for canons that didn't exist outside of the 1812 Overture prior to that point. Schwere Gustav only needed 42 rounds IIRC to obliterate the defenses of Sevastapol. It was an awesome display of the might of tube artillery. It was also utter folly since aircraft could have done the same with percentages of the same resources.

Still, there's a reason the most coveted war booty by Americans was the '08 Luger.

[paximperium]

Ahh..WW2 nerd-gasm...sorry back to NWO and world domination!!!

[UnrepentantSinner]

Ugh, don't get me started on how over-engineered much of the German weaponry of WWII was. My officers training was for artillery and it gave me an appreciation for canons that didn't exist outside of the 1812 Overture prior to that point. Schwere Gustav only needed 42 rounds IIRC to obliterate the defenses of Sevastapol. It was an awesome display of the might of tube artillery. It was also utter folly since aircraft could have done the same with percentages of the same resources.

Still, there's a reason the most coveted war booty by Americans was the '08 Luger.

Ahh..WW2 nerd-gasm...sorry back to NWO and world domination!!!

Ooooh, I forgot to note, what with the over-engineering thing, that had WWII turned out differently, I suspect that it would be Germans coveting their Thompsons rather than Americans coveting their Lugars.

But to placate PaxImperium... that map demonstrates the Illuminati never expected us to land on the moon and colonize it with bigfoots!!!

[aggle-rithm]

The Tiger an..okay tank. Powerful, slow but too complicated and expensive to make. Go for the Russian's T-34, cheap powerful and downright easy to make. Still anything better than our Sherman tanks...


No, the Shermans were great! They were disabled in such huge numbers that their smoldering carcasses made it impossible for the enemy to penetrate our lines!

[aggle-rithm]

But to placate PaxImperium... that map demonstrates the Illuminati never expected us to land on the moon and colonize it with bigfoots!!!

NOBODY expects the....

Oh, never mind.

[Chaos]

No, the Shermans were great! They were disabled in such huge numbers that their smoldering carcasses made it impossible for the enemy to penetrate our lines!

IIRC one German tank commander said during his interrogation: "One of our tanks can disable five of yours. Unfortunately, you always have six tanks."

[Mojo]

No, the Shermans were great! They were disabled in such huge numbers that their smoldering carcasses made it impossible for the enemy to penetrate our lines!


And very handy for rhyming slang!

[mrbaracuda]

NOBODY expects the....

Oh, never mind.

The hairy inquisition! That's what you wanted to say, wasn't it?
This thread is so far out there. ;)